Thoughts on Religious Knowledge (Page 2 of 4)
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Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: We don't get to pick and choose what doctrine we agree with and don't. Thats why the Church has a teaching authority to bind and loosen what the body must believe. Its the pillar and bulwark of truth. Its very peaceful not having to sift through what is correct doctrine and not. Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Originally Posted By Spiffums: I'm Pentecostal because that's the church we went to when I was a kid. The 2 Pastors (son and Father) and the head Deacon were family. Dad was best friends with the Pastor and the Deacon's sons since childhood. I don't agree with all the doctrines that they have but then I don't agree with some of the doctrines that other denominations have. We don't get to pick and choose what doctrine we agree with and don't. Thats why the Church has a teaching authority to bind and loosen what the body must believe. Its the pillar and bulwark of truth. Its very peaceful not having to sift through what is correct doctrine and not. The relationship between faith and psychology is something that has always interested me. Specifically how our psychological types sort us into denominations. I’ve seen this same sentiment expressed several times from RCs in this forum and elsewhere. It’s very much driven by an authoritarian personality inclined toward obedience to authority, conformity, and a preference for strong leaders. And I think that personality type really drives a lot of our more notorious RC posters. That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions of topics beyond the handful of ideas they drift every thread to. That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding. That’s why they constantly have to appeal to authority instead of working through an issue. Personally, I couldn’t imagine such a casual, low energy, approach to something as consequential as my faith. But that’s probably driven by my personality type too. |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: The relationship between faith and psychology is something that has always interested me. Specifically how our psychological types sort us into denominations. I’ve seen this same sentiment expressed several times from RCs in this forum and elsewhere. It’s very much driven by an authoritarian personality inclined toward obedience to authority, conformity, and a preference for strong leaders. And I think that personality type really drives a lot of our more notorious RC posters. That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions of topics beyond the handful of ideas they drift every thread to. That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding. That’s why they constantly have to appeal to authority instead of working through an issue. Personally, I couldn’t imagine such a casual, low energy, approach to something as consequential as my faith. But that’s probably driven by my personality type too. Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Originally Posted By Spiffums: I'm Pentecostal because that's the church we went to when I was a kid. The 2 Pastors (son and Father) and the head Deacon were family. Dad was best friends with the Pastor and the Deacon's sons since childhood. I don't agree with all the doctrines that they have but then I don't agree with some of the doctrines that other denominations have. We don't get to pick and choose what doctrine we agree with and don't. Thats why the Church has a teaching authority to bind and loosen what the body must believe. Its the pillar and bulwark of truth. Its very peaceful not having to sift through what is correct doctrine and not. The relationship between faith and psychology is something that has always interested me. Specifically how our psychological types sort us into denominations. I’ve seen this same sentiment expressed several times from RCs in this forum and elsewhere. It’s very much driven by an authoritarian personality inclined toward obedience to authority, conformity, and a preference for strong leaders. And I think that personality type really drives a lot of our more notorious RC posters. That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions of topics beyond the handful of ideas they drift every thread to. That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding. That’s why they constantly have to appeal to authority instead of working through an issue. Personally, I couldn’t imagine such a casual, low energy, approach to something as consequential as my faith. But that’s probably driven by my personality type too. We appeal to the authority of the deposit of faith, so that as a unified faith we don’t just drift from belief to belief through the generations. Scripture tells us to build on solid ground, that the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth, and that we must obey our leaders. Are there any other polities that work and flourish without structure and governance? Clubs, businesses, cities, states, nations? When we liberate ourselves from that we get nothing but anarchy, death, and destruction. |
Give me that old time religion
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Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: We appeal to the authority of the deposit of faith, so that as a unified faith we don’t just drift from belief to belief through the generations. Scripture tells us to build on solid ground, that the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth, and that we must obey our leaders. Are there any other polities that work and flourish without structure and governance? Clubs, businesses, cities, states, nations? When we liberate ourselves from that we get nothing but anarchy, death, and destruction. Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Originally Posted By Spiffums: I'm Pentecostal because that's the church we went to when I was a kid. The 2 Pastors (son and Father) and the head Deacon were family. Dad was best friends with the Pastor and the Deacon's sons since childhood. I don't agree with all the doctrines that they have but then I don't agree with some of the doctrines that other denominations have. We don't get to pick and choose what doctrine we agree with and don't. Thats why the Church has a teaching authority to bind and loosen what the body must believe. Its the pillar and bulwark of truth. Its very peaceful not having to sift through what is correct doctrine and not. The relationship between faith and psychology is something that has always interested me. Specifically how our psychological types sort us into denominations. I’ve seen this same sentiment expressed several times from RCs in this forum and elsewhere. It’s very much driven by an authoritarian personality inclined toward obedience to authority, conformity, and a preference for strong leaders. And I think that personality type really drives a lot of our more notorious RC posters. That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions of topics beyond the handful of ideas they drift every thread to. That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding. That’s why they constantly have to appeal to authority instead of working through an issue. Personally, I couldn’t imagine such a casual, low energy, approach to something as consequential as my faith. But that’s probably driven by my personality type too. We appeal to the authority of the deposit of faith, so that as a unified faith we don’t just drift from belief to belief through the generations. Scripture tells us to build on solid ground, that the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth, and that we must obey our leaders. Are there any other polities that work and flourish without structure and governance? Clubs, businesses, cities, states, nations? When we liberate ourselves from that we get nothing but anarchy, death, and destruction. I appreciate you providing an example of my previous post. |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: I appreciate you providing an example of my previous post. Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Originally Posted By Spiffums: I'm Pentecostal because that's the church we went to when I was a kid. The 2 Pastors (son and Father) and the head Deacon were family. Dad was best friends with the Pastor and the Deacon's sons since childhood. I don't agree with all the doctrines that they have but then I don't agree with some of the doctrines that other denominations have. We don't get to pick and choose what doctrine we agree with and don't. Thats why the Church has a teaching authority to bind and loosen what the body must believe. Its the pillar and bulwark of truth. Its very peaceful not having to sift through what is correct doctrine and not. The relationship between faith and psychology is something that has always interested me. Specifically how our psychological types sort us into denominations. I’ve seen this same sentiment expressed several times from RCs in this forum and elsewhere. It’s very much driven by an authoritarian personality inclined toward obedience to authority, conformity, and a preference for strong leaders. And I think that personality type really drives a lot of our more notorious RC posters. That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions of topics beyond the handful of ideas they drift every thread to. That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding. That’s why they constantly have to appeal to authority instead of working through an issue. Personally, I couldn’t imagine such a casual, low energy, approach to something as consequential as my faith. But that’s probably driven by my personality type too. We appeal to the authority of the deposit of faith, so that as a unified faith we don’t just drift from belief to belief through the generations. Scripture tells us to build on solid ground, that the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth, and that we must obey our leaders. Are there any other polities that work and flourish without structure and governance? Clubs, businesses, cities, states, nations? When we liberate ourselves from that we get nothing but anarchy, death, and destruction. I appreciate you providing an example of my previous post. Humility and obedience are virtues, virtues I greatly struggle with. “That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions … That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding.” And yet all you’ve done here is condemn myself and others, and rejected meaningful discussion. Where did I err in responding to your statement and asking your response to mine? |
Give me that old time religion
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Originally Posted By JAD762: The relationship between faith and psychology is something that has always interested me. Specifically how our psychological types sort us into denominations. I’ve seen this same sentiment expressed several times from RCs in this forum and elsewhere. It’s very much driven by an authoritarian personality inclined toward obedience to authority, conformity, and a preference for strong leaders. And I think that personality type really drives a lot of our more notorious RC posters. That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions of topics beyond the handful of ideas they drift every thread to. That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding. That’s why they constantly have to appeal to authority instead of working through an issue. Personally, I couldn’t imagine such a casual, low energy, approach to something as consequential as my faith. But that’s probably driven by my personality type too. As someone who walks the middle road, I've got a couple cents to throw in. Given that something as important as eternal destiny is at stake, the Roman Catholics have it as their business to be correct. At least, as correct as they know how to be. Once sound reasoning (as they see it) has been applied to understand something, that is obviously the correct teaching and anything deviating from that is lunacy. And it is lunacy because their first Bishop was given the keys to Heaven while the other apostles (the first bishops) were not. Since Jesus promised that the gates of Hades would not prevail, it must be stated that whichever communion has that particular apostle in it is the one that will ultimately endure. Now as an Anglican, I may look at Rome and have some critiques. But I also see that they have reformed considerably since the early sixteenth century, and because of the promise the Lord made, will always seek for the rest of the Church to be reconciled to them. I do not, however, agree with the assessment that Catholics are psychologically bent on conformity. It is simply that if you accept the authority of Rome to the degree that they do, any other choice is simply mad. |
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Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: Humility and obedience are virtues, virtues I greatly struggle with. “That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions … That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding.” And yet all you’ve done here is condemn myself and others, and rejected meaningful discussion. Where did I err in responding to your statement and asking your response to mine? Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Originally Posted By Spiffums: I'm Pentecostal because that's the church we went to when I was a kid. The 2 Pastors (son and Father) and the head Deacon were family. Dad was best friends with the Pastor and the Deacon's sons since childhood. I don't agree with all the doctrines that they have but then I don't agree with some of the doctrines that other denominations have. We don't get to pick and choose what doctrine we agree with and don't. Thats why the Church has a teaching authority to bind and loosen what the body must believe. Its the pillar and bulwark of truth. Its very peaceful not having to sift through what is correct doctrine and not. The relationship between faith and psychology is something that has always interested me. Specifically how our psychological types sort us into denominations. I’ve seen this same sentiment expressed several times from RCs in this forum and elsewhere. It’s very much driven by an authoritarian personality inclined toward obedience to authority, conformity, and a preference for strong leaders. And I think that personality type really drives a lot of our more notorious RC posters. That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions of topics beyond the handful of ideas they drift every thread to. That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding. That’s why they constantly have to appeal to authority instead of working through an issue. Personally, I couldn’t imagine such a casual, low energy, approach to something as consequential as my faith. But that’s probably driven by my personality type too. We appeal to the authority of the deposit of faith, so that as a unified faith we don’t just drift from belief to belief through the generations. Scripture tells us to build on solid ground, that the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth, and that we must obey our leaders. Are there any other polities that work and flourish without structure and governance? Clubs, businesses, cities, states, nations? When we liberate ourselves from that we get nothing but anarchy, death, and destruction. I appreciate you providing an example of my previous post. Humility and obedience are virtues, virtues I greatly struggle with. “That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions … That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding.” And yet all you’ve done here is condemn myself and others, and rejected meaningful discussion. Where did I err in responding to your statement and asking your response to mine? lol. My man, all I did was unpack MolonLabeFBHO’s post a bit. If you feel condemned by it, perhaps you should take a long look in the mirror and ask why that is. |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: lol. My man, all I did was unpack MolonLabeFBHO’s post a bit. If you feel condemned by it, perhaps you should take a long look in the mirror and ask why that is. Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Originally Posted By Spiffums: I'm Pentecostal because that's the church we went to when I was a kid. The 2 Pastors (son and Father) and the head Deacon were family. Dad was best friends with the Pastor and the Deacon's sons since childhood. I don't agree with all the doctrines that they have but then I don't agree with some of the doctrines that other denominations have. We don't get to pick and choose what doctrine we agree with and don't. Thats why the Church has a teaching authority to bind and loosen what the body must believe. Its the pillar and bulwark of truth. Its very peaceful not having to sift through what is correct doctrine and not. The relationship between faith and psychology is something that has always interested me. Specifically how our psychological types sort us into denominations. I’ve seen this same sentiment expressed several times from RCs in this forum and elsewhere. It’s very much driven by an authoritarian personality inclined toward obedience to authority, conformity, and a preference for strong leaders. And I think that personality type really drives a lot of our more notorious RC posters. That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions of topics beyond the handful of ideas they drift every thread to. That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding. That’s why they constantly have to appeal to authority instead of working through an issue. Personally, I couldn’t imagine such a casual, low energy, approach to something as consequential as my faith. But that’s probably driven by my personality type too. We appeal to the authority of the deposit of faith, so that as a unified faith we don’t just drift from belief to belief through the generations. Scripture tells us to build on solid ground, that the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth, and that we must obey our leaders. Are there any other polities that work and flourish without structure and governance? Clubs, businesses, cities, states, nations? When we liberate ourselves from that we get nothing but anarchy, death, and destruction. I appreciate you providing an example of my previous post. Humility and obedience are virtues, virtues I greatly struggle with. “That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions … That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding.” And yet all you’ve done here is condemn myself and others, and rejected meaningful discussion. Where did I err in responding to your statement and asking your response to mine? lol. My man, all I did was unpack MolonLabeFBHO’s post a bit. If you feel condemned by it, perhaps you should take a long look in the mirror and ask why that is. Sure thing, brother. Have a blessed weekend. |
Give me that old time religion
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Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: As someone who walks the middle road, I've got a couple cents to throw in. Given that something as important as eternal destiny is at stake, the Roman Catholics have it as their business to be correct. At least, as correct as they know how to be. Once sound reasoning (as they see it) has been applied to understand something, that is obviously the correct teaching and anything deviating from that is lunacy. And it is lunacy because their first Bishop was given the keys to Heaven while the other apostles (the first bishops) were not. Since Jesus promised that the gates of Hades would not prevail, it must be stated that whichever communion has that particular apostle in it is the one that will ultimately endure. Now as an Anglican, I may look at Rome and have some critiques. But I also see that they have reformed considerably since the early sixteenth century, and because of the promise the Lord made, will always seek for the rest of the Church to be reconciled to them. I do not, however, agree with the assessment that Catholics are psychologically bent on conformity. It is simply that if you accept the authority of Rome to the degree that they do, any other choice is simply mad. Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: Originally Posted By JAD762: The relationship between faith and psychology is something that has always interested me. Specifically how our psychological types sort us into denominations. I’ve seen this same sentiment expressed several times from RCs in this forum and elsewhere. It’s very much driven by an authoritarian personality inclined toward obedience to authority, conformity, and a preference for strong leaders. And I think that personality type really drives a lot of our more notorious RC posters. That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions of topics beyond the handful of ideas they drift every thread to. That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding. That’s why they constantly have to appeal to authority instead of working through an issue. Personally, I couldn’t imagine such a casual, low energy, approach to something as consequential as my faith. But that’s probably driven by my personality type too. As someone who walks the middle road, I've got a couple cents to throw in. Given that something as important as eternal destiny is at stake, the Roman Catholics have it as their business to be correct. At least, as correct as they know how to be. Once sound reasoning (as they see it) has been applied to understand something, that is obviously the correct teaching and anything deviating from that is lunacy. And it is lunacy because their first Bishop was given the keys to Heaven while the other apostles (the first bishops) were not. Since Jesus promised that the gates of Hades would not prevail, it must be stated that whichever communion has that particular apostle in it is the one that will ultimately endure. Now as an Anglican, I may look at Rome and have some critiques. But I also see that they have reformed considerably since the early sixteenth century, and because of the promise the Lord made, will always seek for the rest of the Church to be reconciled to them. I do not, however, agree with the assessment that Catholics are psychologically bent on conformity. It is simply that if you accept the authority of Rome to the degree that they do, any other choice is simply mad. Let’s start with a point of order: Given the Episcopal structure of your communion, you are not in the middle of the road in terms of a high church authority. You guys are right in line with the RCs, EOs, and OOs. If you’re trying to create a spectrum from high authority churches to free church traditions, it would be Methodists and Presbyterians in the middle. So, respectfully, you may not think that RC attracts authoritarian types for the same reason a bass may not think that a trout is wet. That said, if you want to think about it in terms of MBTI I suppose it could be defined as sensing/judging. Considering the high frequency of authoritarian personalities among S/J it’s kind of a wash, but whatever makes you happy I guess. If this is something that interests you you might check out Psychological Type, Religion, and Culture by Christopher Lewis, Personality Type and Scripture by Leslie Francis, and The Psychology of Religion by Ralph Hood. |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: Let’s start with a point of order: Given the Episcopal structure of your communion, you are not in the middle of the road in terms of a high church authority. You guys are right in line with the RCs, EOs, and OOs. If you’re trying to create a spectrum from high authority churches to free church traditions, it would be Methodists and Presbyterians in the middle. So, respectfully, you may not think that RC attracts authoritarian types for the same reason a bass may not think that a trout is wet. That said, if you want to think about it in terms of MBTI I suppose it could be defined as sensing/judging. Considering the high frequency of authoritarian personalities among S/J it’s kind of a wash, but whatever makes you happy I guess. If this is something that interests you you might check out Psychological Type, Religion, and Culture by Christopher Lewis, Personality Type and Scripture by Leslie Francis, and The Psychology of Religion by Ralph Hood. Holy Scripture, interpreted according to the historical consensus of the Church, is the highest authority over the Church. Holy Scripture contains all things necessary for salvation and nothing is to be taught as an essential article of faith that cannot be shown by it. |
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Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: Holy Scripture, interpreted according to the historical consensus of the Church, is the highest authority over the Church. Holy Scripture contains all things necessary for salvation and nothing is to be taught as an essential article of faith that cannot be shown by it. Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: Originally Posted By JAD762: Let’s start with a point of order: Given the Episcopal structure of your communion, you are not in the middle of the road in terms of a high church authority. You guys are right in line with the RCs, EOs, and OOs. If you’re trying to create a spectrum from high authority churches to free church traditions, it would be Methodists and Presbyterians in the middle. So, respectfully, you may not think that RC attracts authoritarian types for the same reason a bass may not think that a trout is wet. That said, if you want to think about it in terms of MBTI I suppose it could be defined as sensing/judging. Considering the high frequency of authoritarian personalities among S/J it’s kind of a wash, but whatever makes you happy I guess. If this is something that interests you you might check out Psychological Type, Religion, and Culture by Christopher Lewis, Personality Type and Scripture by Leslie Francis, and The Psychology of Religion by Ralph Hood. Holy Scripture, interpreted according to the historical consensus of the Church, is the highest authority over the Church. Holy Scripture contains all things necessary for salvation and nothing is to be taught as an essential article of faith that cannot be shown by it. Ok...Thanks? I'm going to be honest. I have no idea how what you said relates to how different denominations appeal to different psychological types. |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: Let’s start with a point of order: Given the Episcopal structure of your communion, you are not in the middle of the road in terms of a high church authority. You guys are right in line with the RCs, EOs, and OOs. If you’re trying to create a spectrum from high authority churches to free church traditions, it would be Methodists and Presbyterians in the middle. So, respectfully, you may not think that RC attracts authoritarian types for the same reason a bass may not think that a trout is wet. That said, if you want to think about it in terms of MBTI I suppose it could be defined as sensing/judging. Considering the high frequency of authoritarian personalities among S/J it’s kind of a wash, but whatever makes you happy I guess. If this is something that interests you you might check out Psychological Type, Religion, and Culture by Christopher Lewis, Personality Type and Scripture by Leslie Francis, and The Psychology of Religion by Ralph Hood. Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: Originally Posted By JAD762: The relationship between faith and psychology is something that has always interested me. Specifically how our psychological types sort us into denominations. I’ve seen this same sentiment expressed several times from RCs in this forum and elsewhere. It’s very much driven by an authoritarian personality inclined toward obedience to authority, conformity, and a preference for strong leaders. And I think that personality type really drives a lot of our more notorious RC posters. That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions of topics beyond the handful of ideas they drift every thread to. That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding. That’s why they constantly have to appeal to authority instead of working through an issue. Personally, I couldn’t imagine such a casual, low energy, approach to something as consequential as my faith. But that’s probably driven by my personality type too. As someone who walks the middle road, I've got a couple cents to throw in. Given that something as important as eternal destiny is at stake, the Roman Catholics have it as their business to be correct. At least, as correct as they know how to be. Once sound reasoning (as they see it) has been applied to understand something, that is obviously the correct teaching and anything deviating from that is lunacy. And it is lunacy because their first Bishop was given the keys to Heaven while the other apostles (the first bishops) were not. Since Jesus promised that the gates of Hades would not prevail, it must be stated that whichever communion has that particular apostle in it is the one that will ultimately endure. Now as an Anglican, I may look at Rome and have some critiques. But I also see that they have reformed considerably since the early sixteenth century, and because of the promise the Lord made, will always seek for the rest of the Church to be reconciled to them. I do not, however, agree with the assessment that Catholics are psychologically bent on conformity. It is simply that if you accept the authority of Rome to the degree that they do, any other choice is simply mad. Let’s start with a point of order: Given the Episcopal structure of your communion, you are not in the middle of the road in terms of a high church authority. You guys are right in line with the RCs, EOs, and OOs. If you’re trying to create a spectrum from high authority churches to free church traditions, it would be Methodists and Presbyterians in the middle. So, respectfully, you may not think that RC attracts authoritarian types for the same reason a bass may not think that a trout is wet. That said, if you want to think about it in terms of MBTI I suppose it could be defined as sensing/judging. Considering the high frequency of authoritarian personalities among S/J it’s kind of a wash, but whatever makes you happy I guess. If this is something that interests you you might check out Psychological Type, Religion, and Culture by Christopher Lewis, Personality Type and Scripture by Leslie Francis, and The Psychology of Religion by Ralph Hood. It would certainly make sense that different personality types migrate into certain denominations when seeking religion. Differing temperaments also draw in predictable ways. However, we shouldn’t just seek out the Christ we desire, or give in to our internal desires. We should always humble ourselves, temper ourselves, and try to become like who Christ is, not who we will him to be. We conform to Him, we don’t seek a religion that conforms to us. My temperament is at odds with what it takes to be Catholic, I have to fight my own inner rebellious spirit daily to remain obedient to God. I know it doesn’t work to just give in to myself, I tried that mess of degeneracy. |
Give me that old time religion
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Originally Posted By JAD762: The relationship between faith and psychology is something that has always interested me. Specifically how our psychological types sort us into denominations. I’ve seen this same sentiment expressed several times from RCs in this forum and elsewhere. It’s very much driven by an authoritarian personality inclined toward obedience to authority, conformity, and a preference for strong leaders. And I think that personality type really drives a lot of our more notorious RC posters. That’s why they can’t really engage in meaningful discussions of topics beyond the handful of ideas they drift every thread to. That’s why they frequently vapor lock & engage in bad faith arguments when presented with evidence that contradicts their understanding. That’s why they constantly have to appeal to authority instead of working through an issue. Personally, I couldn’t imagine such a casual, low energy, approach to something as consequential as my faith. But that’s probably driven by my personality type too. I'd put forward that obedience, conformity and strong leadership are Christian virtues. A rebellious heart that yearns for disobedience, incongruity, and ambivolent shepherding sounds like hell. That heart is inclined to all sorts of strange and heretical ideas fabricated from his own will and inclinations. And it has historically produced exactly that, from novel dogmas to transgender pastors. Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Heb.13:17 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom.15:5-6 |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: Ok...Thanks? I'm going to be honest. I have no idea how what you said relates to how different denominations appeal to different psychological types. I am pointing out a way in which I am neither Catholic nor Orthodox, but also not Protestant. |
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: Boy, if you had only known me, that man is dead. I have a testimony. The only condition for Jesus to save is to believe on Him. Don't be stuck in religious requirement(s) or routine. He wants you to know Him. Jesus is a person and He came to save us. What He says: “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. John 14:1 Jesus is the Son of God, He won't lead you astray. I'm clinging to him by faith, not my religion. Why do men want to over-complicate a relationship with God? Do this, don't do that, perform this etc. My relationship with Him isn't based on my performance. He did not die for that! Remember the 3rd day? My encouragement is this: in your private time, get closer to Him. Draw near to Him, call, cry out to him from your heart (inner most being). He will reveal Himself to you. When is the last time you heard His voice? John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Romans 5:8 ... but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. The old is gone. I am a new creation in Him. There's no going back. Oh, thank you Lord. You are merciful to me. Yes, we all fall short of God's glory. He loves us still. Believe on Him! Jesus is Lord. Yes, amen my brother. JESUS in us and we in HIM to the glory of GOD. Thoughts on religious knowledge? = Philippians 3:8-10 gives us more insight. |
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Originally Posted By Oldgold: Mark 13:23 King James Version 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. ^This bears repeating. Our mind and thoughts always need exercized in the Word of God and in prayer. We know the internet world is also filled with false teachers, in neighborhood gathering places and pulpits, and in the psycho analysis field. Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. |
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Originally Posted By Raidersgone: ^This bears repeating. Our mind and thoughts always need exercized in the Word of God and in prayer. We know the internet world is also filled with false teachers, in neighborhood gathering places and pulpits, and in the psycho analysis field. Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Originally Posted By Raidersgone: Originally Posted By Oldgold: Mark 13:23 King James Version 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. ^This bears repeating. Our mind and thoughts always need exercized in the Word of God and in prayer. We know the internet world is also filled with false teachers, in neighborhood gathering places and pulpits, and in the psycho analysis field. Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. There is a constant spiritual war happening, and the primary battlefield is our mind. After all, the Scriptures provide abundant instruction regarding our thought lives, warning us to stay vigilant. The Scriptures offer plenty of guidance about our thoughts. Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Ephesians 4:23 ... "and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,"... |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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John 5: 37-40 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. A person can know alot of Scripture, which is a good thing. But if they never had a come to Jesus moment and were "Born Again' It means you did not understand what the Scriptures are about. |
USMC 77-81 6113
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Originally Posted By 3xpert: John 5: 37-40 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. A person can know alot of Scripture, which is a good thing. But if they never had a come to Jesus moment and were "Born Again' Originally Posted By 3xpert: John 5: 37-40 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. A person can know alot of Scripture, which is a good thing. But if they never had a come to Jesus moment and were "Born Again' "Born again" refers squarely to the Sacrament of Baptism. It always has and it always will. No amount of Neo-Protestant screaming will ever change that. What you are referring to is more correctly called a "personal encounter with Christ". EDIT: Wait a second. I forgot to comment on this doozy: It means you did not understand what the Scriptures are about. What utter hubris... |
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Originally Posted By 3xpert: John 5: 37-40 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. A person can know alot of Scripture, which is a good thing. But if they never had a come to Jesus moment and were "Born Again' It means you did not understand what the Scriptures are about. ^This is true. JESUS gave us the way in His Word on this as recorded in John chapter 15. You must be born again as HE said in chapter 3. No matter what a religion of the world or those that follow them may say that contradicts the WORD. There is a reason their understanding is darkened. Let us discern what is written in Ephesians chapter 4. |
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Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: "Born again" refers squarely to the Sacrament of Baptism. It always has and it always will. No amount of Neo-Protestant screaming will ever change that. What you are referring to is more correctly called a "personal encounter with Christ". EDIT: Wait a second. I forgot to comment on this doozy: What utter hubris... Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: Originally Posted By 3xpert: John 5: 37-40 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. A person can know alot of Scripture, which is a good thing. But if they never had a come to Jesus moment and were "Born Again' "Born again" refers squarely to the Sacrament of Baptism. It always has and it always will. No amount of Neo-Protestant screaming will ever change that. What you are referring to is more correctly called a "personal encounter with Christ". EDIT: Wait a second. I forgot to comment on this doozy: It means you did not understand what the Scriptures are about. What utter hubris... 'Refers to' huh? Born again (born from above) is the Life inside you. Read: there is no Life outside of Him. (see John 1:12-14) Now, you are a new creation in Him. How do you NOT encounter Him. He has given us new life. (see John 10:10 & 14:6) Born again believers identify with His death, burial and resurrection. Amen. What He says: Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will claim mighty works done in His name, yet He will reply, “I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness” (see Matthew 7:22-23). In light of this, if your religious practices, sacraments, or good deeds do not flow from a heart that knows and obeys Jesus personally, what assurance do you have before Him on the day of judgment? The Word of God is alive, Jesus is alive. Those who believe are alive in Him. Otherwise where would that leave us? |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: "Born again" refers squarely to the Sacrament of Baptism. It always has and it always will. No amount of Neo-Protestant screaming will ever change that. What you are referring to is more correctly called a "personal encounter with Christ". EDIT: Wait a second. I forgot to comment on this doozy: What utter hubris... Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: Originally Posted By 3xpert: John 5: 37-40 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. A person can know alot of Scripture, which is a good thing. But if they never had a come to Jesus moment and were "Born Again' "Born again" refers squarely to the Sacrament of Baptism. It always has and it always will. No amount of Neo-Protestant screaming will ever change that. What you are referring to is more correctly called a "personal encounter with Christ". EDIT: Wait a second. I forgot to comment on this doozy: It means you did not understand what the Scriptures are about. What utter hubris... John 1: 19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. 24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? 26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; 27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose. 28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. How can you possibly say that you read the Bible and then claim water baptism saves you? The Bible is about the Cross of Christ and is also the Word made flesh, who is Jesus Christ. Even John the Baptist told you that Jesus is the Lamb (Sacrifice) of God that takes away the Sin of the world. Your catechism or whatever your church calls it IS NOT the Bible, If water baptism saves you and takes away your sin? Then God only had to send John the Baptist. Then Jesus died for nothing, that is what you are saying. Hubris? 
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USMC 77-81 6113
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Originally Posted By 3xpert: John 1: 19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. 24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? 26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; 27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose. 28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. How can you possibly say that you read the Bible and then claim water baptism saves you? The Bible is about the Cross of Christ and is also the Word made flesh, who is Jesus Christ. Even John the Baptist told you that Jesus is the Lamb (Sacrifice) of God that takes away the Sin of the world. Your catechism or whatever your church calls it IS NOT the Bible, If water baptism saves you and takes away your sin? Then God only had to send John the Baptist. Then Jesus died for nothing, that is what you are saying. Hubris? Originally Posted By 3xpert: Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: Originally Posted By 3xpert: John 5: 37-40 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. A person can know alot of Scripture, which is a good thing. But if they never had a come to Jesus moment and were "Born Again' "Born again" refers squarely to the Sacrament of Baptism. It always has and it always will. No amount of Neo-Protestant screaming will ever change that. What you are referring to is more correctly called a "personal encounter with Christ". EDIT: Wait a second. I forgot to comment on this doozy: It means you did not understand what the Scriptures are about. What utter hubris... John 1: 19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. 24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? 26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; 27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose. 28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. How can you possibly say that you read the Bible and then claim water baptism saves you? The Bible is about the Cross of Christ and is also the Word made flesh, who is Jesus Christ. Even John the Baptist told you that Jesus is the Lamb (Sacrifice) of God that takes away the Sin of the world. Your catechism or whatever your church calls it IS NOT the Bible, If water baptism saves you and takes away your sin? Then God only had to send John the Baptist. Then Jesus died for nothing, that is what you are saying. Hubris? We’ve beaten this horse to death but I remember having to post the definition of the word, “and.” It’s even found in the Bible sometimes. Jesus, our Lord, says in the Bible, water and the Holy Spirit. |
Give me that old time religion
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Originally Posted By 3xpert: How can you possibly say that you read the Bible and then claim water baptism saves you? 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. -1Peter3 St. Peter says water baptism is part of salvation. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. -Mark16 St. Mark records that water baptism is necessary to accepting the Gospel and salvation. What a wonderful and powerful thing our Lord gave us. |
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Originally Posted By brianm: 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. -1Peter3 St. Peter says water baptism is part of salvation. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. -Mark16 St. Mark records that water baptism is necessary to accepting the Gospel and salvation. What a wonderful and powerful thing our Lord gave us. Johns preached a "Baptism of repentance," you repent of your sin and John would baptise you in water. MK 1:4 Luke 3:3 Acts 19:4 Repentance is required for salvation, Ask the thief on the cross. In the Old Testament water and oil was symbolic for the Holy Spirit, which was to come after Jesus paid the sin debt on the Cross. In the New Testament when people got saved thru faith in Jesus Christ, "Then" they were baptised in water as a testimony of what the Holy Spirit has done in thier life. If you are saved you should be baptised in water, but the water does not save. Only the Blood of Jesus does. Peter said so, 1Peter 1: 18-19 Since you guys are so big on water baptism, Go get water Baptised! Infants have no clue what sin is much less repenting of it. You don't want to do it, but tell people they have to. Infant baptism is a way to say you were, even though you were not. |
USMC 77-81 6113
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Originally Posted By 3xpert: Johns preached a "Baptism of repentance," you repent of your sin and John would baptise you in water. MK 1:4 Luke 3:3 Acts 19:4 Repentance is required for salvation, Ask the thief on the cross. In the Old Testament water and oil was symbolic for the Holy Spirit, which was to come after Jesus paid the sin debt on the Cross. In the New Testament when people got saved thru faith in Jesus Christ, "Then" they were baptised in water as a testimony of what the Holy Spirit has done in thier life. If you are saved you should be baptised in water, but the water does not save. Only the Blood of Jesus does. Peter said so, 1Peter 1: 18-19 Since you guys are so big on water baptism, Go get water Baptised! Infants have no clue what sin is much less repenting of it. You don't want to do it, but tell people they have to. Infant baptism is a way to say you were, even though you were not. Originally Posted By 3xpert: Originally Posted By brianm: 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. -1Peter3 St. Peter says water baptism is part of salvation. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. -Mark16 St. Mark records that water baptism is necessary to accepting the Gospel and salvation. What a wonderful and powerful thing our Lord gave us. Johns preached a "Baptism of repentance," you repent of your sin and John would baptise you in water. MK 1:4 Luke 3:3 Acts 19:4 Repentance is required for salvation, Ask the thief on the cross. In the Old Testament water and oil was symbolic for the Holy Spirit, which was to come after Jesus paid the sin debt on the Cross. In the New Testament when people got saved thru faith in Jesus Christ, "Then" they were baptised in water as a testimony of what the Holy Spirit has done in thier life. If you are saved you should be baptised in water, but the water does not save. Only the Blood of Jesus does. Peter said so, 1Peter 1: 18-19 Since you guys are so big on water baptism, Go get water Baptised! Infants have no clue what sin is much less repenting of it. You don't want to do it, but tell people they have to. Infant baptism is a way to say you were, even though you were not. You seem to not know much of what sin is and what the affects are for humanity. |
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Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: You seem to not know much of what sin is and what the affects are for humanity. Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Originally Posted By 3xpert: Originally Posted By brianm: 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. -1Peter3 St. Peter says water baptism is part of salvation. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. -Mark16 St. Mark records that water baptism is necessary to accepting the Gospel and salvation. What a wonderful and powerful thing our Lord gave us. Johns preached a "Baptism of repentance," you repent of your sin and John would baptise you in water. MK 1:4 Luke 3:3 Acts 19:4 Repentance is required for salvation, Ask the thief on the cross. In the Old Testament water and oil was symbolic for the Holy Spirit, which was to come after Jesus paid the sin debt on the Cross. In the New Testament when people got saved thru faith in Jesus Christ, "Then" they were baptised in water as a testimony of what the Holy Spirit has done in thier life. If you are saved you should be baptised in water, but the water does not save. Only the Blood of Jesus does. Peter said so, 1Peter 1: 18-19 Since you guys are so big on water baptism, Go get water Baptised! Infants have no clue what sin is much less repenting of it. You don't want to do it, but tell people they have to. Infant baptism is a way to say you were, even though you were not. You seem to not know much of what sin is and what the affects are for humanity. I know exactly what sin is, I was involved in a lot sin, ruined some years of my life, Thank you Father for your Son who saved me, when I put my Faith in the Shed Blood (Cross) of Jesus Christ for my sin. I put my Faith in the Blood and not the water, my sin was taken away and I walked away from the sinfull life I was in. Then I felt like the Ethiopion eunech, hey there's water! I want to be water baptised. |
USMC 77-81 6113
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Originally Posted By 3xpert: Johns preached a "Baptism of repentance," you repent of your sin and John would baptise you in water. MK 1:4 Luke 3:3 Acts 19:4 Repentance is required for salvation, Ask the thief on the cross. In the Old Testament water and oil was symbolic for the Holy Spirit, which was to come after Jesus paid the sin debt on the Cross. In the New Testament when people got saved thru faith in Jesus Christ, "Then" they were baptised in water as a testimony of what the Holy Spirit has done in thier life. If you are saved you should be baptised in water, but the water does not save. Only the Blood of Jesus does. Peter said so, 1Peter 1: 18-19 Since you guys are so big on water baptism, Go get water Baptised! Infants have no clue what sin is much less repenting of it. You don't want to do it, but tell people they have to. Infant baptism is a way to say you were, even though you were not. Originally Posted By 3xpert: Johns preached a "Baptism of repentance," you repent of your sin and John would baptise you in water. MK 1:4 Luke 3:3 Acts 19:4 Repentance is required for salvation, Ask the thief on the cross. In the Old Testament water and oil was symbolic for the Holy Spirit, which was to come after Jesus paid the sin debt on the Cross. In the New Testament when people got saved thru faith in Jesus Christ, "Then" they were baptised in water as a testimony of what the Holy Spirit has done in thier life. If you are saved you should be baptised in water, but the water does not save. Only the Blood of Jesus does. Peter said so, 1Peter 1: 18-19 Since you guys are so big on water baptism, Go get water Baptised! Infants have no clue what sin is much less repenting of it. You don't want to do it, but tell people they have to. Infant baptism is a way to say you were, even though you were not. I mean Scripture literally says it does. "this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you" "It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" I know exactly what sin is, I was involved in a lot sin, ruined some years of my life, Thank you Father for your Son who saved me, when I put my Faith in the Shed Blood (Cross) of Jesus Christ for my sin. I put my Faith in the Blood and not the water, my sin was taken away and I walked away from the sinfull life I was in. Then I felt like the Ethiopion eunech, hey there's water! I want to be water baptised. Scripture says that baptism washes away your sin. 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” Acts2 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name. Acts22:16 |
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Originally Posted By 3xpert: Your catechism or whatever your church calls it IS NOT the Bible, If water baptism saves you and takes away your sin? Then God only had to send John the Baptist. Then Jesus died for nothing, that is what you are saying. Hubris? Are you utterly illiterate in the Scriptures? The Acts of the Apostles specifically records those being baptized by John as needing to be baptized again. Also, you seem to be confusing the ACNA with the RCC. We are, unfortunately, not in Communion with them. We do have our own catechism, though. And while we don't suppose it to be of equal authority to the Scriptures, it does cite them for every single thing it says. |
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Originally Posted By 3xpert: I know exactly what sin is, I was involved in a lot sin, ruined some years of my life, Thank you Father for your Son who saved me, when I put my Faith in the Shed Blood (Cross) of Jesus Christ for my sin. I put my Faith in the Blood and not the water, my sin was taken away and I walked away from the sinfull life I was in. Then I felt like the Ethiopion eunech, hey there's water! I want to be water baptised. Originally Posted By 3xpert: Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Originally Posted By 3xpert: Originally Posted By brianm: 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. -1Peter3 St. Peter says water baptism is part of salvation. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. -Mark16 St. Mark records that water baptism is necessary to accepting the Gospel and salvation. What a wonderful and powerful thing our Lord gave us. Johns preached a "Baptism of repentance," you repent of your sin and John would baptise you in water. MK 1:4 Luke 3:3 Acts 19:4 Repentance is required for salvation, Ask the thief on the cross. In the Old Testament water and oil was symbolic for the Holy Spirit, which was to come after Jesus paid the sin debt on the Cross. In the New Testament when people got saved thru faith in Jesus Christ, "Then" they were baptised in water as a testimony of what the Holy Spirit has done in thier life. If you are saved you should be baptised in water, but the water does not save. Only the Blood of Jesus does. Peter said so, 1Peter 1: 18-19 Since you guys are so big on water baptism, Go get water Baptised! Infants have no clue what sin is much less repenting of it. You don't want to do it, but tell people they have to. Infant baptism is a way to say you were, even though you were not. You seem to not know much of what sin is and what the affects are for humanity. I know exactly what sin is, I was involved in a lot sin, ruined some years of my life, Thank you Father for your Son who saved me, when I put my Faith in the Shed Blood (Cross) of Jesus Christ for my sin. I put my Faith in the Blood and not the water, my sin was taken away and I walked away from the sinfull life I was in. Then I felt like the Ethiopion eunech, hey there's water! I want to be water baptised. Again. You are describing sin but not the affects of sin and the fall. If you understood that then you would see why Infants are baptized, and always have been. |
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Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Again. You are describing sin but not the affects of sin and the fall. If you understood that then you would see why Infants are baptized, and always have been. There is a reason many topics reach to the point of being born again by the Holy Spirit from above, born of water and of the Spirit as JESUS said. JESUS said to Nicodemus, "are you a teacher/master of Israel and knowest not these things"? He needed spiritual discernment, because it's all spiritual. Did JESUS even once say the water is an immersion or sprinkle in water to enter the kingdom of GOD, or did HE say born of? What did HE say to thief on the cross? Was that man an exception to your religion? This a Spiritual re-birth a transformation of the heart, the flesh is just corruptible flesh, natural water does not wash away sins. The blood of JESUS does. Did Nicodemus proclaim he was water baptised already for the forgiveness of sins? You know, like the man who told JESUS he had kept the 10 commandments from his childhood and still asked what does it take for him to be saved? John the baptist said he baptised with water a baptism of repentance preparing hearts for the Messiah. He said One will come after him who will baptise with fire and the Holy Spirit. JESUS said John was the greatest man among men ever born. Discern the water and get set free. Whom the Son sets free is free indeed. |
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Originally Posted By 3xpert: Johns preached a "Baptism of repentance," you repent of your sin and John would baptise you in water. MK 1:4 Luke 3:3 Acts 19:4 Repentance is required for salvation, Ask the thief on the cross. In the Old Testament water and oil was symbolic for the Holy Spirit, which was to come after Jesus paid the sin debt on the Cross. In the New Testament when people got saved thru faith in Jesus Christ, "Then" they were baptised in water as a testimony of what the Holy Spirit has done in thier life. If you are saved you should be baptised in water, but the water does not save. Only the Blood of Jesus does. Peter said so, 1Peter 1: 18-19 Since you guys are so big on water baptism, Go get water Baptised! Infants have no clue what sin is much less repenting of it. You don't want to do it, but tell people they have to. Infant baptism is a way to say you were, even though you were not. Originally Posted By 3xpert: Originally Posted By brianm: 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. -1Peter3 St. Peter says water baptism is part of salvation. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. -Mark16 St. Mark records that water baptism is necessary to accepting the Gospel and salvation. What a wonderful and powerful thing our Lord gave us. Johns preached a "Baptism of repentance," you repent of your sin and John would baptise you in water. MK 1:4 Luke 3:3 Acts 19:4 Repentance is required for salvation, Ask the thief on the cross. In the Old Testament water and oil was symbolic for the Holy Spirit, which was to come after Jesus paid the sin debt on the Cross. In the New Testament when people got saved thru faith in Jesus Christ, "Then" they were baptised in water as a testimony of what the Holy Spirit has done in thier life. If you are saved you should be baptised in water, but the water does not save. Only the Blood of Jesus does. Peter said so, 1Peter 1: 18-19 Since you guys are so big on water baptism, Go get water Baptised! Infants have no clue what sin is much less repenting of it. You don't want to do it, but tell people they have to. Infant baptism is a way to say you were, even though you were not. “And” Also, if water represented the spirit then Jesus would be saying to be baptized in the spirit and Spirit. God frequently uses His own created things, physical things, with miracles and works He performs. He did create them after all. |
Give me that old time religion
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Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: “And” Also, if water represented the spirit then Jesus would be saying to be baptized in the spirit and Spirit. The natural man has not discerned the water JESUS is speaking of. Neither can he. Even after he is shown he can not see. |
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Originally Posted By Raidersgone: The natural man has not discerned the water JESUS is speaking of. Neither can he. Even after he is shown he can not see. Originally Posted By Raidersgone: Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: “And” Also, if water represented the spirit then Jesus would be saying to be baptized in the spirit and Spirit. The natural man has not discerned the water JESUS is speaking of. Neither can he. Even after he is shown he can not see. We are body and spirit, brother, as was our Lord Jesus. |
Give me that old time religion
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Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: We are body and spirit, brother, as was our Lord Jesus. Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: Originally Posted By Raidersgone: Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: “And” Also, if water represented the spirit then Jesus would be saying to be baptized in the spirit and Spirit. The natural man has not discerned the water JESUS is speaking of. Neither can he. Even after he is shown he can not see. We are body and spirit, brother, as was our Lord Jesus. I'm following you guys, yes, we are real men. Yes, Jesus is a real man. Jesus Christ has come in a real body (spirit, soul and body). What He says: St John 3:3 DRC1752 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. We are to love like Him. Don't you love Him? St John 7:37-39 DRC1752 And on the last, and great day of the festivity, Jesus stood and cried, saying: If any man thirst, let him come to me, and drink. He that believeth in me, as the scripture saith, Out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. Now this he said of the Spirit which they should receive, who believed in him: for as yet the Spirit was not given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (His death, burial and resurrection) Remember: Jesus is the Baptizer of the Holy Spirit. What He says: St John 4:14 DRC1752 But the water that I will give him, shall become in him a fountain of water, springing up into life everlasting. St John 4:24 DRC1752 God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth. Read: Those who believe can receive this living water freely. Come to Jesus and receive. Apocalypse 22:17 DRC1752 And the spirit and the bride say: Come. And he that heareth, let him say: Come. And he that thirsteth, let him come: and he that will, let him take the water of life, freely. My friends, He is alive. The Holy Spirit testifies. There is a river, water of life that flows from His throne my friends. Come and see. Maranatha |
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| These threads always seem to go the same. It is like Jesus has invited you to dinner, which he has prepared like a wedding feast. You arrive, have an appetizer or two in the entryway, then leave. I feel very sorry for you. You are so close, you answered Jesus, you came his feast, but you left early, and don't even recognize you are still starving. |
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Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: These threads always seem to go the same. It is like Jesus has invited you to dinner, which he has prepared like a wedding feast. You arrive, have an appetizer or two in the entryway, then leave. I feel very sorry for you. You are so close, you answered Jesus, you came his feast, but you left early, and don't even recognize you are still starving. And those of us who participate in the anticipatory feast (most of us weekly) are told we're engaging in dead works. |
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: I'm following you guys, yes, we are real men. Yes, Jesus is a real man. Jesus Christ has come in a real body (spirit, soul and body). What He says: St John 3:3 DRC1752 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. We are to love like Him. Don't you love Him? St John 7:37-39 DRC1752 And on the last, and great day of the festivity, Jesus stood and cried, saying: If any man thirst, let him come to me, and drink. He that believeth in me, as the scripture saith, Out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. Now this he said of the Spirit which they should receive, who believed in him: for as yet the Spirit was not given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (His death, burial and resurrection) Remember: Jesus is the Baptizer of the Holy Spirit. What He says: St John 4:14 DRC1752 But the water that I will give him, shall become in him a fountain of water, springing up into life everlasting. St John 4:24 DRC1752 God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth. Read: Those who believe can receive this living water freely. Come to Jesus and receive. Apocalypse 22:17 DRC1752 And the spirit and the bride say: Come. And he that heareth, let him say: Come. And he that thirsteth, let him come: and he that will, let him take the water of life, freely. My friends, He is alive. The Holy Spirit testifies. There is a river, water of life that flows from His throne my friends. Come and see. Maranatha Yes, reborn of Water and of the Spirit. Thank you JESUS for giving unto us your life giving Water and Spirit. |
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Originally Posted By brianm: I mean Scripture literally says it does. "this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you" "It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" Scripture says that baptism washes away your sin. 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” Acts2 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name. Acts22:16 When the word "Baptize" is used in Scripture it is not always refering to water, Matt 3:11 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Romans 6:3 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Acts: 1:5 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Men Baptize with water, but another man getting you wet in some way cannot possibly wash your sin away. Only the Blood of Jesus can take away your sin, you need to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit, or as Paul said, Baptized into Christ. Rom 6:3 |
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Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: Are you utterly illiterate in the Scriptures? The Acts of the Apostles specifically records those being baptized by John as needing to be baptized again. Also, you seem to be confusing the ACNA with the RCC. We are, unfortunately, not in Communion with them. We do have our own catechism, though. And while we don't suppose it to be of equal authority to the Scriptures, it does cite them for every single thing it says. Show me a Scripture for what you talking about, being Baptised again. If it's what I'm thinking about it is not meaning water Baptism. |
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Originally Posted By 3xpert: Show me a Scripture for what you talking about, being Baptised again. If it's what I'm thinking about it is not meaning water Baptism. Acts 19:1-5 1 And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the land country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. |
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Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Again. You are describing sin but not the affects of sin and the fall. If you understood that then you would see why Infants are baptized, and always have been. Man is born in sin because of Adam, God made man in His image, which was sinless perfection. After the fall, man is in sin, man's nature changed, man now has a "sin nature". man is condemed from the day he was born. Everyone is always talking about act's of sin, murder, adultery etc. But man sins because it is his nature to do so. Sin is natural to man, man can sin and not know it. Sin is now man's DNA, Because mans heart is wicked. Man needs a new heart, and that can only come about when a man understands that he is a sinner and needs a Saviour. There is nothing man can do within himself to save himself from hell. (even getting water baptised) Man needs to be, as some here have said and experienced, "Born Again" Born from above, Born of God. John 3 Recieving the indwelling gift of the Holy Spirit, or as Peter said, the Divine nature. 2 Peter 1: 3-4 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 1 Peter 1: 18-19 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: |
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Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: “Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” St John 3:5 Jesus did say this, Lets not talk about water baptism, we obviously don't agree on it's purpose. Lets talk about the other side of "and" How is man born of the Holy Spirit? |
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Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: Acts 19:1-5 1 And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the land country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: Originally Posted By 3xpert: Show me a Scripture for what you talking about, being Baptised again. If it's what I'm thinking about it is not meaning water Baptism. Acts 19:1-5 1 And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the land country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. That is what I was thinking about, but add verse 6. Acts 19: 1-6 19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. These people knew about John, but as yet not heard about Jesus Christ. Whom John said to believe in. They were then "Baptised with the Holy Spirit" Acts 1:5 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. |
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Originally Posted By 3xpert: That is what I was thinking about, but add verse 6. Acts 19: 1-6 19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. These people knew about John, but as yet not heard about Jesus Christ. Whom John said to believe in. They were then "Baptised with the Holy Spirit" Acts 1:5 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. So are you asserting that this second baptism "in the name of the Lord Jesus" didn't involve water? |
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Acts 8 King James Version 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%208&version=KJV |
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Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: So are you asserting that this second baptism "in the name of the Lord Jesus" didn't involve water? Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: Originally Posted By 3xpert: That is what I was thinking about, but add verse 6. Acts 19: 1-6 19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. These people knew about John, but as yet not heard about Jesus Christ. Whom John said to believe in. They were then "Baptised with the Holy Spirit" Acts 1:5 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. So are you asserting that this second baptism "in the name of the Lord Jesus" didn't involve water? Yes, And I have posted many Scriptures that have in some effect the word "baptise" in them and it's not talking about water. Luke 12: 49-51 This is Jesus, He's already been water baptised by John the baptist. You tell me what Jesus is refering to here. I'll say that Jesus is talking about the Cross. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: |
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Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: Acts 8 King James Version 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%208&version=KJV Did you know that some Bibles leave out verse 37? Because Phillip said you have to have Faith in Jesus Christ before the water. |
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Originally Posted By 3xpert: Jesus did say this, Lets not talk about water baptism, we obviously don't agree on it's purpose. Lets talk about the other side of "and" How is man born of the Holy Spirit? Our Lord links being born again with the two together, water and Spirit. Why would we presume to disassocaite one from the other, other than try to make it say something it does not? How is a man born of water and Spirit? The answer is clearly and unambiguously through baptism. |