Posted: 10/2/2011 9:02:08 PM EDT
|
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_36/465063_Just_saw_this_on_open_carry_in_Eugene.html Makes me :( What I don't understand is that most people have no reason not to let a person know who they are talking to. Sure, if they are wanted/doing something illegal, I can understand not wanting to identify yourself, but come on.... That combined with the "cops just want to run you so they can come up with more bs to arrest you on" comment just make me mad. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should... I can have sex with twelve 18 year old girls at once, but that doesn't mean I should... |
|
Some guys, love to make a soapbox to stand on. I am pretty sure, if hey just handed over a ID, was a legit, the cops would let him go with a nice day.... And probably would have let him out of there just as fast. He coulda scored some points for those that are hardcore 2A freindly with "Cops". But nope, now he just looks like a guy who wants to be a youtube hero. Give props to the cops, they kept their cool.
I havd had to deal wih cameras alot with my department. Sucks now becuase with cell phones and youtube. You never know when you could famous, or infamous. I just try to smile a lot of say thank you as much as possible. Kinda robs the wind out of their sails. |
|
Depending on the jurisdiction and the laws specific to location it may or may not be required to ID yourself to the Police. It sounds like Oregon is similar to my AO in that if there is not reasonable suspicion of illegal activity the Police cannot detain or force you to ID. There will always be people who want to challenge LE and push things as far as they possibly can to make a point. Generally they are part of the problem, not the solution. Most of these folks think the cops are out to get them, are the enemy, and shouldn't be spoken to or co-operated with under any circumstances. Fortunately most citizens don't feel that was because if they did the Police would essentially be unable to effectively enforce the law and things would go downhill from there.
You seem to have the right idea. Being on good terms with local LE is good for everyone except the criminals. Does that mean you should allow LE to do random house searches? No. Does that mean that if someone calls in concerned about an armed man downtown it would be in everyone's best interests to co-operate? Yes. if the interaction goes well (ie nobody is arrested, the Police know who you are and know you aren't a threat, and the concerned citizen that doesn't understand the law about open carry can be educated everyone wins. If you are difficult just for the sake of being difficult that serves to show non-gun people that gun people are anti-cop and will likey serve to errode your rights, not support them. Remember that if the general public watching is uneasy with the guy open carrying and he's uncooperative with Police it will make them more nervous the next time they encounter some who open carries. The whole point in open carry is to de-stigmatize it so being an ass to the cops will only hurt their agenda. But as mentioned, some people want a soap box so they can find like minded people on the internet and clamor about it. We have to deal with them, but you can just ignore them. And thanks for being supportive of you local LE. The more support we get from the community the better we can do our jobs. |
|
I work closely with local LE on a daily basis as an EMT. But even before I worked as an EMT, I was always of the mind to be cooperative. In my head (and according to the other thread, my own feelings are wrong), cooperate with LE to the best of your ability. If they ask who they are talking to, give them your name. The only reason to hide something, is if you have something to hide. Back when I was a student at Cal State Chico, I was questioned numerous times because I looked like someone who wasn't allowed on campus. Every conversation started off friendly. When asked my name, I gave it (before I even knew why I was being talked to). I know that if I had refused to give my name, I would have spent many an hour in the local station waiting on ID to come back.
I guess I just have a different mentality then a lot of people. I don't think the cops are out to get me (unless I'm driving down the highway in my personal vehicle, cuz everyone knows the cops hate us white boys...) :D. |
|
Quoted:
You seem to have the right idea. Being on good terms with local LE is good for everyone except the criminals. Does that mean you should allow LE to do random house searches? No. Does that mean that if someone calls in concerned about an armed man downtown it would be in everyone's best interests to co-operate? Yes. if the interaction goes well (ie nobody is arrested, the Police know who you are and know you aren't a threat, and the concerned citizen that doesn't understand the law about open carry can be educated everyone wins. If you are difficult just for the sake of being difficult that serves to show non-gun people that gun people are anti-cop and will likey serve to errode your rights, not support them. Remember that if the general public watching is uneasy with the guy open carrying and he's uncooperative with Police it will make them more nervous the next time they encounter some who open carries. The whole point in open carry is to de-stigmatize it so being an ass to the cops will only hurt their agenda. I agree with most everything here but would like to add a couple things. Sure this guy might have some "soap box" motives but in the end he did nothing illegal. I don't open carry so I can't say what I'd do in his situation. The problem I see here with the idea of "police-public relations" is why stop the guy in the first place? Did they really feel he may be a threat because he was carrying a holstered pistol? When's the last time a BG was open carrying prior to car jacking someone? Nothing wrong with simply stopping the guy to politely tell him that you received a call about him carrying(IF you actually received a call) and just wanted to follow up on the call. Nothing wrong with asking for ID, but when he refuses to produce ID, as is his right in OR and here in NC, the officer should not change his whole attitude. The bike officer seemed to be pretty agitated when the guy refused to show ID. The line about bystanders' perception of open carriers, and gun people in general, as a result of this encounter is in part the officer's responsibility as well. If the officer is adamant about IDing the guy it will obviously look bad despite the fact that the guy has done nothing wrong, ya know? Thankfully the situation ended as it should but both sides could have done things to make it go smoother and faster. |
|
Quoted:
Thankfully the situation ended as it should but both sides could have done things to make it go smoother and faster. Well, I think it went about as smooth and fast as possible considering it was in Eugene. There was no name calling, no blading, not even gruff voices. Bike cops contact the guy because someone called 9-1-1 about a guy with a gun. No, he wasn't doing anything illegal so there's an argument that the dispatcher shouldn't have set up the call. OC dude was cordial, polite and non-confrontational. The bike cops weren't accusatory and were polite. No forceful ID'ing, they didn't draw down, etc.... |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
You seem to have the right idea. Being on good terms with local LE is good for everyone except the criminals. Does that mean you should allow LE to do random house searches? No. Does that mean that if someone calls in concerned about an armed man downtown it would be in everyone's best interests to co-operate? Yes. if the interaction goes well (ie nobody is arrested, the Police know who you are and know you aren't a threat, and the concerned citizen that doesn't understand the law about open carry can be educated everyone wins. If you are difficult just for the sake of being difficult that serves to show non-gun people that gun people are anti-cop and will likey serve to errode your rights, not support them. Remember that if the general public watching is uneasy with the guy open carrying and he's uncooperative with Police it will make them more nervous the next time they encounter some who open carries. The whole point in open carry is to de-stigmatize it so being an ass to the cops will only hurt their agenda. I agree with most everything here but would like to add a couple things. Sure this guy might have some "soap box" motives but in the end he did nothing illegal. I don't open carry so I can't say what I'd do in his situation. The problem I see here with the idea of "police-public relations" is why stop the guy in the first place? Did they really feel he may be a threat because he was carrying a holstered pistol? When's the last time a BG was open carrying prior to car jacking someone? Nothing wrong with simply stopping the guy to politely tell him that you received a call about him carrying(IF you actually received a call) and just wanted to follow up on the call. Nothing wrong with asking for ID, but when he refuses to produce ID, as is his right in OR and here in NC, the officer should not change his whole attitude. The bike officer seemed to be pretty agitated when the guy refused to show ID. The line about bystanders' perception of open carriers, and gun people in general, as a result of this encounter is in part the officer's responsibility as well. If the officer is adamant about IDing the guy it will obviously look bad despite the fact that the guy has done nothing wrong, ya know? Thankfully the situation ended as it should but both sides could have done things to make it go smoother and faster. I understand what you are saying and you are right, the guy did nothing wrong as far as I can tell. I will tell you this, I've never in my 9 years as a cop had someone refuse to ID themselves that didn't have a warrant for their arrest so it will always raise a red flag for me. While that isn't the guy who is open carrying's fault, neither is it the fault of a cop who knows what things should peak his suspicion. I can't imagine a situation where someone would refuse to ID and I would think everything was on the up and up. Good Police work is noticing things that indicate criminal activity and refusing to ID is one in my experience. |
