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Posted: 9/28/2004 9:10:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 9:21:53 AM EST by jvic]
I did a ride along with the police the other day and during our conversation, he mentioned a guy that got his degree in Criminal Justice and did great on the test, etc. During the polygraph it came out that he had driven drunk a number of times. Not arrested or convicted, just did it. Not sure how recently. In the past (I was young/stupid) I drove after drinking. Am I out now?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:11:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:12:19 AM EST
Did he admit it, or did he fail the PG?

NEVER admit to ANYTHING.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:14:36 AM EST
Yes, he admitted it and failed Polygraph.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:16:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By jvic:
Yes, he admitted it and failed Polygraph.



Huh, so he didn't drive drunk?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:16:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By jvic:
Yes, he admitted it and failed Polygraph.



So does that mean he was lying about having done it?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:17:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 9:21:36 AM EST by FLAL1A]
Wave is right. It depends on the department. Be careful about "never admitting anything." If an agency places heavy reliance on the lie box, indications of deception can be disqualifying. You need to talk off the record to a friend on the department to see how to handle the question "Have you driven while under the influence" if it comes up.

ETA: There are agencies where a truthful admission of using pot or cocaine X times or X years ago is not disqualifying, while showing deception on those issues is disqualifying. You need to do some work behind the scenes. And get a prescription for valium.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:17:26 AM EST
DOH! Newbhunter beat me to it.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:18:46 AM EST
It came up in the PG and I guess he admitted to it then...
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:19:43 AM EST
THe police officer I was talking with the other day told me that the answers to the Polygraph aren't really what his dept looks for, they just want to know if you will tell the truth.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:20:46 AM EST
is it true really nervous people usually come out unconclusive because they are so nervous just to be taking the test they can't get a good reading?

there are some sites that teach you how to beat the test sounds pretty easy
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:20:57 AM EST
My take is that I should be completely honest about everything and if they want me, they want me. I am not going to lie or be misleading to get a LEO job. That wouldn't say much about my character, in my opinion. I just need to know if I need to abandon thinking about it as a career or if it may still work out.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:21:01 AM EST
Depends. One thing that will definately disqualify you is LYING about it (not that was an issue in either story.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:22:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
Depends. One thing that will definately disqualify you is LYING about it (not that was an issue in either story.




depends on what?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:26:33 AM EST
IPD officer drunk driving

Check this article out. Happened about a week ago here in Indianapolis.


McComas, who police said accidentally slammed his patrol car into Creviston's parked vehicle early Sunday in the 3200 block of Carica Drive, is the first IPD officer to face discipline under the department's new zero-tolerance policy, which bars officers from driving their police cars after consuming any alcohol.
McComas, who came on the force in August 2001, has had no prior disciplinary problems, IPD spokesman Sgt. Steve Staletovich said. He said McComas will be given an administrative job pending an internal investigation into any violations of department rules.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:29:23 AM EST
Just off the top of my head it can depend on: Number of times, knowledge of wrongdoing (decision making), ages at time of offense, and mitigating or aggrivating circumstances such as injuries or accidents.

If these were youthful indescretions, I think you would be okay. If they were patterns that follow you to this day, then there might be cause for not being considered. Then again, I am nooooooooooooooo psychologist (which is the guy that you really have to worry about!)

NorCal

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:30:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 9:35:23 AM EST by Hokie]
Some of the police officers around here are drink and drive everywhere, disobey everything...
because they're largely untouchable within their own fraternity.

I know this because I've partied with a few. Sadly, cops are above the law. Your past shouldn't matter too much provided you don't have any outstanding warrants or a long list of felonies on record.

There are many exceptions to this of course, but there's also a great deal of truth.

<­img src=/images/smilies/smiley_freak.gif border=0 align=middle> Awaiting the onslaught of holier than thou LEO's to light me on fire
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:35:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
Just off the top of my head it can depend on: Number of times, knowledge of wrongdoing (decision making), ages at time of offense, and mitigating or aggrivating circumstances such as injuries or accidents.

If these were youthful indescretions, I think you would be okay. If they were patterns that follow you to this day, then there might be cause for not being considered. Then again, I am nooooooooooooooo psychologist (which is the guy that you really have to worry about!)

NorCal




Makes sense...thanks!
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:36:42 AM EST
No, not arrests of any kind, worst thing I have are speeding tickets (couple of years ago).
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:38:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 9:39:42 AM EST by psychotr]
www.antipolygraph.org

If you look at this site, you won't have to worry about any polygraph.
www.antipolygraph.org
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:40:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By psychotr:
www.antipolygraph.org

If you look at this site, you won't have to worry about any polygraph.



If I have to lie, it's not the right job for me. I want to be completely honest about who I am and what I have done. I feel it's the right thing to do and essential for anyone who is a LEO...
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:41:53 AM EST
will having three girlfriends at once when I was younger disqualify me?

I never smoked mary jane or dui. I did get a ticket when I was 16.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:57:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By jvic:
My take is that I should be completely honest about everything and if they want me, they want me. I am not going to lie or be misleading to get a LEO job. That wouldn't say much about my character, in my opinion. I just need to know if I need to abandon thinking about it as a career or if it may still work out.



I agree. Sounds like you have your head on straight.

Are you sure you really want to be a LEO?



Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:02:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Slash:
Are you sure you really want to be a LEO?



LOL, well, yeah...
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:06:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By mike45acp:
is it true really nervous people usually come out unconclusive because they are so nervous just to be taking the test they can't get a good reading?

there are some sites that teach you how to beat the test sounds pretty easy



beating a polygraph test is simple. i beat one using the tack-in-the-shoe method. also, a test that doesn't include some kind of retinal observation is inherently unreliable.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:07:42 AM EST
to everyone that said yes it was a problem if recent, can you give me an idea what recent might be? last year? 2 years? 5?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:08:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:10:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:

Originally Posted By MrsGungho:
IPD officer drunk driving

Check this article out. Happened about a week ago here in Indianapolis.

McComas, who police said accidentally slammed his patrol car into Creviston's parked vehicle early Sunday in the 3200 block of Carica Drive, is the first IPD officer to face discipline under the department's new zero-tolerance policy, which bars officers from driving their police cars after consuming any alcohol.



WTF was the OLD policy?



I don't know, but the new policy will make vice/beverage investigations really interesting. "Sir, I'm arresting you for after-hours sale of alcohol. Walk with me to the bus stop."
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:53:25 AM EST
thought this would be a thread about ethics
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:56:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By legalese77:
thought this would be a thread about ethics



Like what? Isn't driving after drinking an ethical question?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:58:28 AM EST
just be honest, hopefully that will show them that you wouldn't do it again.


I don't know though.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:59:14 AM EST
It will vary from one agency to the next. I know of some who still have their jobs after being arrested for DUI, while others were terminated upon conviction.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:59:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wave:
Depends on Dept.




+1
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:01:46 PM EST
And I am not talking about a DUI, I have never had one, just driving after you have had too much to drink. Same thing, really, but I have no arrest record...
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:09:02 PM EST
Most depts are looking for a pattern of behavior. How long ago? have you done it since? did you learn your lesson?
I was pulled over 10 years ago and blew a .0863. Would be a DUI now but back then the trooper told me to get some coffee at the next exit.
I told all and let them decide. They told me it was no problem.
As for being able to "beat" a poly, the poligrapher started our conversation with this little gem:
"I've been doing this for 10 years. If you are willing to risk a potential 20 year career trying to beat me, go ahead."
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:14:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Most depts are looking for a pattern of behavior. How long ago? have you done it since? did you learn your lesson?
I was pulled over 10 years ago and blew a .0863. Would be a DUI now but back then the trooper told me to get some coffee at the next exit.
I told all and let them decide. They told me it was no problem.
As for being able to "beat" a poly, the poligrapher started our conversation with this little gem:
"I've been doing this for 10 years. If you are willing to risk a potential 20 year career trying to beat me, go ahead."



Used to do it more when I was younger. There was a time about 1-1.5 years ago that might have been over, but I am not sure. I did not feel unsafe, but I might have been over...
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:16:09 PM EST
And I have matured (I hope!) since then and have a new outlook on life and doing stupid things. I am now engaged to a woman with 2 kids. It changed the way I looked at things like that.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:16:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By jvic:

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Most depts are looking for a pattern of behavior. How long ago? have you done it since? did you learn your lesson?
I was pulled over 10 years ago and blew a .0863. Would be a DUI now but back then the trooper told me to get some coffee at the next exit.
I told all and let them decide. They told me it was no problem.
As for being able to "beat" a poly, the poligrapher started our conversation with this little gem:
"I've been doing this for 10 years. If you are willing to risk a potential 20 year career trying to beat me, go ahead."



Used to do it more when I was younger. There was a time about 1-1.5 years ago that might have been over, but I am not sure. I did not feel unsafe, but I might have been over...


How old are you? 1 1/2 years ago is fairly recent...
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:17:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By jvic:
And I have matured (I hope!) since then and have a new outlook on life and doing stupid things. I am now engaged to a woman with 2 kids. It changed the way I looked at things like that.



[aakbar] It's a trap!!!!!!![/aakbar]
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:19:57 PM EST
They will lie, attempt to deceive you, and attempt to coerce you during the polygraph. You may as well fight fire with fire.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:20:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 12:21:07 PM EST by jvic]

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:

Originally Posted By jvic:
And I have matured (I hope!) since then and have a new outlook on life and doing stupid things. I am now engaged to a woman with 2 kids. It changed the way I looked at things like that.



[aakbar] It's a trap!!!!!!![/aakbar]



Yes, but one I am happy about
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:29:31 PM EST
I don't see how any of this matters since what they really want to know is whether you can take a payoff and keep your mouth shut or not. I would think them having some dirt on you and being privy to some crime you committed would be useful in getting hired.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:31:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
I don't see how any of this matters since what they really want to know is whether you can take a payoff and keep your mouth shut or not. I would think them having some dirt on you and being privy to some crime you committed would be useful in getting hired.



Now THAT is good info
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:58:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By jvic:

Originally Posted By legalese77:
thought this would be a thread about ethics



Like what? Isn't driving after drinking an ethical question?



Pardon me, it was a rather poor backhanded jibe

"Thinking about being a cop, will this disqualify me? "
"thought this would be a thread about ethics"


Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:02:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 1:02:18 PM EST by jvic]

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By jvic:

Originally Posted By legalese77:
thought this would be a thread about ethics



Like what? Isn't driving after drinking an ethical question?



Pardon me, it was a rather poor backhanded jibe

"Thinking about being a cop, will this disqualify me? "
"thought this would be a thread about ethics"





AHhh...sorry, I am slow
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:03:14 PM EST
If you admitted to it less of a big deal than lying and getting caught...
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:38:58 PM EST
We don't really place much importance on a polygraph. What we DO do is go over your questionnare with a microscope. (Last I looked the questionnare was somewhere around 30 pages. It is VERY intrusive)

Any pattern of alcohol irresponsibility is a BIG red flag. I personally have seen backgrounds get flushed because the applicant admits to consuming more than a 6-pack a week.

Other things that'll get you dropped are:

Financial irresponsibility. (Excessive debt, bankruptcy, lots of impulse purchases, etc.)

Unstable personal relationships. (the girl a week guys, messy divorces, domestic disputes)

Alcohol and drug use. It's still possible with Marijuana use in your teens, any hard drug gets you flushed regardless of the circumstances.

ANY interaction with police other than as a witness or victim.

Driving history. (We terminated a three year officer when we found out he had a previous citation for racing. Lies or omissions on a background will get you fired YEARS later.)

We're also going to look at things such as guys that move a lot, start things like school but never finish, how you communicate with the background investigator, all sorts of that kind of thing.

Then comes the REAL biggie, getting thru the Psych.

We'll start with about 1500 applicants per class and pick 32.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 8:40:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
We don't really place much importance on a polygraph. What we DO do is go over your questionnare with a microscope. (Last I looked the questionnare was somewhere around 30 pages. It is VERY intrusive)

Any pattern of alcohol irresponsibility is a BIG red flag. I personally have seen backgrounds get flushed because the applicant admits to consuming more than a 6-pack a week.

Other things that'll get you dropped are:

Financial irresponsibility. (Excessive debt, bankruptcy, lots of impulse purchases, etc.)

Unstable personal relationships. (the girl a week guys, messy divorces, domestic disputes)

Alcohol and drug use. It's still possible with Marijuana use in your teens, any hard drug gets you flushed regardless of the circumstances.

ANY interaction with police other than as a witness or victim.

Driving history. (We terminated a three year officer when we found out he had a previous citation for racing. Lies or omissions on a background will get you fired YEARS later.)

We're also going to look at things such as guys that move a lot, start things like school but never finish, how you communicate with the background investigator, all sorts of that kind of thing.

Then comes the REAL biggie, getting thru the Psych.

We'll start with about 1500 applicants per class and pick 32.



I was arrested 4 times for warrant speeding tickets in my teens. Is that an automatic DQ?
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:40:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 4:42:58 AM EST by Johninaustin]

Originally Posted By FourStringSlinger:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
We don't really place much importance on a polygraph. What we DO do is go over your questionnare with a microscope. (Last I looked the questionnare was somewhere around 30 pages. It is VERY intrusive)

Any pattern of alcohol irresponsibility is a BIG red flag. I personally have seen backgrounds get flushed because the applicant admits to consuming more than a 6-pack a week.

Other things that'll get you dropped are:

Financial irresponsibility. (Excessive debt, bankruptcy, lots of impulse purchases, etc.)

Unstable personal relationships. (the girl a week guys, messy divorces, domestic disputes)

Alcohol and drug use. It's still possible with Marijuana use in your teens, any hard drug gets you flushed regardless of the circumstances.

ANY interaction with police other than as a witness or victim.

Driving history. (We terminated a three year officer when we found out he had a previous citation for racing. Lies or omissions on a background will get you fired YEARS later.)

We're also going to look at things such as guys that move a lot, start things like school but never finish, how you communicate with the background investigator, all sorts of that kind of thing.

Then comes the REAL biggie, getting thru the Psych.

We'll start with about 1500 applicants per class and pick 32.



I was arrested 4 times for warrant speeding tickets in my teens. Is that an automatic DQ?



4 times for Failure To Appear warrants? Yes. Keep in mind, you are going thru a VERY competitive selection process. Any little ding in your history can get you tossed.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:49:18 AM EST
I've heard of many departments setting their standards of DUI history at 7 years. 7 years seems to be quite common in North Texas.

Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:51:56 AM EST
What sucks is, now that I am a productive, law abiding, conservative adult....my past will DQ me from ever getting a LE job. I have never done anything horrible...but sure, I have tried some things that were less than legal back in college....and got speeding tickets....and yes, I have driven after the bar (never got caught, but have done it).

From the sounds of it, I am basically screwed if I wanted to become LEO (which I seriously have considered lately - thought about State Police here in PA)


I understand that they need to be selective...but its pretty bad that things I did as a stupid college kid have pretty much exempted me from ever having a police or .gov job. I wish they were concerned about what people are like TODAY...and not what they did as kids.
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