Want to know what it is?
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[b]Take a cop shooting![/b]

In any of the most likely confiscation scenarios, it will be local LEO’s that are called on to do the dirty deed. In a worst-case scenario it may be the military, but I doubt it. Even so, this can apply to them too.

Get to know your local LEO’s and service members. Take them shooting, most never shoot outside of duty and then on strictly regulated ranges and conditions. Show them how much fun it can be. Expose them to various SUR’s. Be their friend. Before long, some of them will be hooked and will purchase their own SUR’s…. and soon will become one of us. They will hook their coworkers, so forth and so on. Talk to them about firearms rights, get them involved, and buy them NRA memberships. Bring them over to us. Most cops don’t feel strongly one way or another about firearms… get to them before the anti’s do and bring them over to us.


Then, when the time comes, whom will they find to do the deed? The feds are too few and far between to do anything, the local LEO’s and much of the military will be on our side… whom is left? The UN? If a majority of the LEO’s and just some of the military are willing to fight, they don’t stand a chance (Besides which, I don’t think even all the participants could achieve the logistical requirements to carry on a massive operation on US soil).

Of course, there is the all more likely scenario of slow encroachment on our rights, with SUR’s gone first, then some handguns, then others, just like CA. In this scenario, LEO’s who are on our side are much more likely to look the other way when they see you with something illegal, and just smile because they have the same thing. If they cannot get anyone to enforce the laws what good are they? As far as that goes, you lawyers out there get the DA's and assistant DA's out to the range, a gun owner is less likely to prosecute a fellow gun owner on some BS firearms charge.

While many of us may feel that LEO’s in this country have too much power in some cases, let’s put it to use for us anyway. One ally within the system can help bring it down faster than 10 outside. 10 officers on a 50-man force could effectively shut it down from the inside with their detailed knowledge. The anti’s [b]ONLY[/b] source of power is the gun in the hand of the LEO enforcing the law, take that away and they have nothing!

Instead of sitting around griping about the LEO’s and Soldiers you think are coming to take your guns, do something about it. Get off your but and get them to the range. In the last 6 months I can think of 4 cops and 7 soldiers whom I played a role in getting them to get into shooting and purchase SUR’s…. who wants to try and beat me for the next 6 months?

Well, I agree in general, but fundamentally you are asking the LEO to violate their oath by "looking the other way".  IMHO, if the LEO cannot in good conscience obey the dictates of their oath, the only honorable path is to resign, not ignore clear violations of the law, no matter how stupid the law may be.
To take an extreme example, would you think it acceptable if the LEO "looked the other way" if their lifelong friend murdered you?
With respect to the other aspects of your post, we're in agreement, and I've done so already.

2 different things... looking the other way in a murder is wrong, but many would feel that looking the other way to firearms violations would be in keeping with thier oath, which does have that pesky Constitution thing in it.

In many ways, the oath servicemembers take is the same. It says both "Protect and defend the Constitution Of The United States" and "Obey the orders of the officers appointed above me" but the part about the constitution takes precendence, that is why it comes first in the oath.

Interesting.  Please cite adjudications supporting your position.

Are you looking for ones to do with the military oath or police? If military I can come up with some fairly quickly in the morning, police it may take me a little longer.

What it comes down to is what do you do when 2 parts of your oath are in conflict. In the military it is pretty clear cut, any unlawful (unconstitutional orders are, by defintion, against the highest law of the land) order does not have to be followed.

I am also not talking strictly in a legal sense here, but a moral one as well. When you take an oath to protect, defend, or uphold the constitiution it should take precidence over any order you may be given, unless you don't value that oath.

It means a great deal.  Here, you're bringing up the Nuremberg War Crimes trials.  The net result, as you pointed out, was that an individual had no obligation to obey an illegal order,
However, in the example cited in the beginning of this post, the legality of the statutes in question is not legally in dispute at this time.  
Therefore, the Nuremberg defense is of dubious value unless the SCOTUS intervenes otherwise.

Nope, I gave up on them already, taking the fight to the lowest level.

All the Generals in the world won't win a fight if the elisted soldiers don't obey their orders!

Will re-state original opinion in a different way.  When your sworn oath requires you to deviate from your good conscience, the only honorable path is to resign your oath, not try to be "a barracks lawyer" and try to dodge around it.
I cite the example of Robert E Lee.

Valid in the legal sense, but not the moral.

Then again, if enough LEO's turn in thier badges instead of being the enforcers for those who would enslave us, that too will have an effect. If we can get enough of them to open thier eyes and see that they are being used to enslave us, that too will have an effect. If, during the next round of gon control legislation, 20-30% of the LEO's in this country quit because they valued thier integrity more than a paycheck the effects would be amazing.

Agreed, see my above post.

[beer]

Garand Shooter, not even going to clink a glass?

But of course![beer][smoke]

Garand Shooter is ABSOPOSILUTELY CORRECT ON THIS!

Almost every time I have gone shooting in my life I WENT WITH POLICE OFFICERS!  He is so correct in stating we should become friends with the police.  If you're not that good at making friends like me, then do what I did.

Start by saying hello to them in a friendly manner from time to time.  After a while of doing this, strike up a conversation with one.  Discuss where he went to school for his LE program...  Be friendly towards them, because they're not used to this.  They often get crapped on by most of society, and a you being nice to them will go a long way in a possible friendship.

Then after you get to know them better, ask them if they'd like to go to a shooting range with you, let him try your guns, etc...  Perhaps He'll let you shoot his.  ALWAYS BE SAFE!  One thing I've learned from shooting with cops is that you MUST be SAFE, and take more safety precautions than they do, or they'll be uncomfortable shooting around you.

After I shot with police, then my brother became a police officer.  I got to know more and more local police.  After about 3 years of this, look at this now...  My ENTIRE FAMILY  goes paintballing together with TWO, not ONE, But TWO entire police departments (about 50 officers)!  My mom isn't very good at assaulting in paintball, but with a tippmann ordnance long barrel, she can shoot from a stationary position REALLY well from 100 yards!

After you become really good friends of these nice people, you can openly talk about what they would do if the govmnt decided to take your guns away.  The general consensus I get from ALL OFFICERS is that they would deem a confiscation order or laws requiring the confiscation of guns UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND that if they were called upon to take these guns, they'd just QUIT, and FIGHT if necessary to keep them.

I agree, it would be VERY STUPID of you to show them your Illegal guns (if you have some), as you *WILL* wind up in jail/prison - they don't like that, because friends who break the law are usually no longer their friends.  Keep that in mind though.  Just BE NICE TO THEM!

-Inuhbadnayburhood

I like to ease them in on them... I start with the Garand, a M1 Carine, and then the M-1A, then bring the AR out of the truck after they are hooked, then after a little longer the SAR-2, then another AR... so forth and so on. Then I blow thier minds by blasting a quarter at 100M with my LTR. By the time it looks like an arsenal is layed out they are already hooked so it doesn't bother them except with envy!

So far the biggest hits are the M1A1 Carbine (I always start em on this) and whatever AR has the Reflex II on it.... they all are astonished by that sight!

Those of you with gun clubs might even want to consider a "LE Appreciation day" where you drag all your toys out and let em play.... anything to make allies of them!

Ya know, the most common thing they say after I put a neat little .308 hole in a quarter at 100m or drop 15 bolwing pins at 100m in about 20 seconds is something like "Remind me never to piss you off" or "I pity the man who tries to get into your house in the middle of the night".

Scarecrow:  Keep the advice coming!  We gunowners need all the good ideas that we can get.  Please tell us more about the stunning success of the Canadian gun owners in their battle to retain their rights.  Again, thanks for the tips.

btt

BTT, just to prove a point