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Posted: 7/3/2012 12:45:42 AM EDT
Great doc. But there aren't any English subtitles for the Russian language parts.

Link Posted: 7/3/2012 2:49:01 AM EDT
I shouldn't have watched this before bed...
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 2:55:22 AM EDT
There was "something" that made it different from the other utopias.  
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:37:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Staggunner:
There was "something" that made it different from the other utopias.  


Yeah.

It's evidence like this that pisses me off whenever I hear the lame ass argument "But, we could do it better here!!!"
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 11:24:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2012 11:31:01 AM EDT by therusskibear]
Made in Latvia... The country where Waffen-SS veterans and ex-nazi collaborators are being celebrated as national heroes.

The truth mixed with a lot lie. Some truthful facts mixed with perverted myths and obvious fakes. As an example: people massacred by pro-nazi collaborators on photo showed as an victims of bolshevicks... Kids died during the famine in Russia (well-known photo) represented as Ukrainians died in so called "genocide" in the Ukraine. And these only visual fakes. Some statements are 100%  lie.

This is interesting pattern of modern  propaganda thought. Dr. Goebbels applaud.

I recommend the book "The Soviet strory: mechanics of lie". The author of book beat this item of propaganda (every terrific statement from this "masterpiece") with confirmed facts, referenced documents w/o any emotions (with only factual data).
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 1:55:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By therusskibear:
Made in Latvia... The country where Waffen-SS veterans and ex-nazi collaborators are being celebrated as national heroes.

The truth mixed with a lot lie. Some truthful facts mixed with perverted myths and obvious fakes. As an example: people massacred by pro-nazi collaborators on photo showed as an victims of bolshevicks... Kids died during the famine in Russia (well-known photo) represented as Ukrainians died in so called "genocide" in the Ukraine. And these only visual fakes. Some statements are 100%  lie.

This is interesting pattern of modern  propaganda thought. Dr. Goebbels applaud.

I recommend the book "The Soviet strory: mechanics of lie". The author of book beat this item of propaganda (every terrific statement from this "masterpiece") with confirmed facts, referenced documents w/o any emotions (with only factual data).


Primorsky?
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 2:04:07 PM EDT
tl;dw



Everyone died, right?
 
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 2:10:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By South_Side_Shooter:
Originally Posted By therusskibear:
Made in Latvia... The country where Waffen-SS veterans and ex-nazi collaborators are being celebrated as national heroes.

The truth mixed with a lot lie. Some truthful facts mixed with perverted myths and obvious fakes. As an example: people massacred by pro-nazi collaborators on photo showed as an victims of bolshevicks... Kids died during the famine in Russia (well-known photo) represented as Ukrainians died in so called "genocide" in the Ukraine. And these only visual fakes. Some statements are 100%  lie.

This is interesting pattern of modern  propaganda thought. Dr. Goebbels applaud.

I recommend the book "The Soviet strory: mechanics of lie". The author of book beat this item of propaganda (every terrific statement from this "masterpiece") with confirmed facts, referenced documents w/o any emotions (with only factual data).


Primorsky?


Seems familiar, huh?
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 3:23:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By therusskibear:
Made in Latvia... The country where Waffen-SS veterans and ex-nazi collaborators are being celebrated as national heroes.



For fucks sake that argument never gets old with you people, does it?  For any Americans who want to repeat the shit this poster is espousing, here's some perspective:  Picture yourself in between two of the most ruthless nations in history.  One comes and occupies your land, then takes away a significant part of your population.  Then another comes in and forces those assholes out, promising you freedom from the other.  You're desperate, who do you fight for?

The Latvian SS as well as the other nationalities who had SS units, weren't the gas chamber masters that their German counterparts were.  It was just a unit designation to them, albiet a special one.  They celebrate those who thought they were fighting to free their country, but the average socialist/communist in Europe hates that.  Funny how you'all never complain when the Russians have memorials and celebrations for their soviet soldiers who fought during that time.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 3:29:12 PM EDT
I work with a guy born in the soviet union.  His family stories are just as horrific as anything a "current Russian" would consider "propaganda".  

Seriously.  The commies slaughtered tens of millions of their own people and millions of others during wars.  Nothing is beyond the abilities of russian communists in order to perpetrate their evil.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 3:33:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By therusskibear:
Made in Latvia... The country where Waffen-SS veterans and ex-nazi collaborators are being celebrated as national heroes.



For fucks sake that argument never gets old with you people, does it?  For any Americans who want to repeat the shit this poster is espousing, here's some perspective:  Picture yourself in between two of the most ruthless nations in history.  One comes and occupies your land, then takes away a significant part of your population.  Then another comes in and forces those assholes out, promising you freedom from the other.  You're desperate, who do you fight for?

The Latvian SS as well as the other nationalities who had SS units, weren't the gas chamber masters that their German counterparts were.  It was just a unit designation to them, albiet a special one.  They celebrate those who thought they were fighting to free their country, but the average socialist/communist in Europe hates that.  Funny how you'all never complain when the Russians have memorials and celebrations for their soviet soldiers who fought during that time.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS_foreign_volunteers_and_conscripts#List_by_nation_and_unit
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 3:34:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2012 3:34:36 PM EDT by 74novaman]
Originally Posted By phatmax:
I work with a guy born in the soviet union.  His family stories are just as horrific as anything a "current Russian" would consider "propaganda".  

Seriously.  The commies slaughtered tens of millions of their own people and millions of others during wars.  Nothing is beyond the abilities of russian communists in order to perpetrate their evil.


FTFY.  

Communists everywhere have no problem filling trenches with bodies to achieve their "utopia".
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 3:38:53 PM EDT
Awesome documentary.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 4:03:15 PM EDT
Tagged.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 4:04:51 PM EDT
I have a copy, but no subs...Ive wanted to watch it for a while
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 4:05:33 PM EDT
Russia is a country founded on envy and discontent.  The results of this are the same as with an individual: bitterness and a continued effort to pull down those deemed better off.



I congratulate ANYONE who tries to tell the truth regarding this country that has, and continues to cause so much trouble for it's own people, and throughout the world.
 
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 4:06:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2012 4:09:10 PM EDT by TylerF]

Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
For fucks sake that argument never gets old with you people, does it?  For any Americans who want to repeat the shit this poster is espousing, here's some perspective:  Picture yourself in between two of the most ruthless nations in history.  One comes and occupies your land, then takes away a significant part of your population.  Then another comes in and forces those assholes out, promising you freedom from the other.  You're desperate, who do you fight for?
The Latvian SS as well as the other nationalities who had SS units, weren't the gas chamber masters that their German counterparts were.  It was just a unit designation to them, albiet a special one.  They celebrate those who thought they were fighting to free their country, but the average socialist/communist in Europe hates that.  Funny how you'all never complain when the Russians have memorials and celebrations for their soviet soldiers who fought during that time.





To be fair, look up the Arajs Kommando. All the other Baltic states had volunteer units directly involved in the Holocaust as well.
In a war between two totalitarian states, humans rights get left to the wayside in a big hurry.
 
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 4:11:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
Russia is a country founded on envy and discontent.  The results of this are the same as with an individual: bitterness and a continued effort to pull down those deemed better off.

I congratulate ANYONE who tries to tell the truth regarding this country that has, and continues to cause so much trouble for it's own people, and throughout the world.  


You know what pisses me off?  That stalin and the soviet story was barely a footnote in my history classes growing up.  They rightfully beat us over the head with the evils of nazi Germany, but hardly mentioned the greater evils posed by communism throughout the world.  It took hearing first hand stories of the attrocities from in-laws and actually visiting Latvia's Occupation Museum to get a clear picture.  

It's no wonder we're going socialist here in the US, with an education system like this.  Maybe that's the design.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 4:17:08 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:



Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:

Russia is a country founded on envy and discontent.  The results of this are the same as with an individual: bitterness and a continued effort to pull down those deemed better off.



I congratulate ANYONE who tries to tell the truth regarding this country that has, and continues to cause so much trouble for it's own people, and throughout the world.  




You know what pisses me off?  That stalin and the soviet story was barely a footnote in my history classes growing up.  They rightfully beat us over the head with the evils of nazi Germany, but hardly mentioned the greater evils posed by communism throughout the world.  It took hearing first hand stories of the attrocities from in-laws and actually visiting Latvia's Occupation Museum to get a clear picture.  



It's no wonder we're going socialist here in the US, with an education system like this.  Maybe that's the design.
I have to give the Devil it's due ––––the Soviets were second to none with propaganda, mis- and dis-information. . . they will omit, twist, inject, forge (excellently by the way) and manipulate facts and history to their purposes. . .



You know, in regard to what you wrote––-everyone knows that WW2 started when Germany invaded Poland.   Hey––you know what?  So did the USSR!  Germany and the USSR were allies at the time and divided Poland up between them. . .but that very rarely gets mentioned in the documentaries. . .





 
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 4:31:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2012 4:32:50 PM EDT by DaveS]
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:

Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
Russia is a country founded on envy and discontent.  The results of this are the same as with an individual: bitterness and a continued effort to pull down those deemed better off.

I congratulate ANYONE who tries to tell the truth regarding this country that has, and continues to cause so much trouble for it's own people, and throughout the world.  


You know what pisses me off?  That stalin and the soviet story was barely a footnote in my history classes growing up.  They rightfully beat us over the head with the evils of nazi Germany, but hardly mentioned the greater evils posed by communism throughout the world.  It took hearing first hand stories of the attrocities from in-laws and actually visiting Latvia's Occupation Museum to get a clear picture.  

It's no wonder we're going socialist here in the US, with an education system like this.  Maybe that's the design.
I have to give the Devil it's due ––––the Soviets were second to none with propaganda, mis- and dis-information. . . they will omit, twist, inject, forge (excellently by the way) and manipulate facts and history to their purposes. . .

You know, in regard to what you wrote––-everyone knows that WW2 started when Germany invaded Poland.   Hey––you know what?  So did the USSR!  Germany and the USSR were allies at the time and divided Poland up between them. . .but that very rarely gets mentioned in the documentaries. . .

 


WTF is your point.  They were never true allies.  Hitler knew he was moving east from the getgo.

And always mentioned in the accurate docs.

Link Posted: 7/3/2012 4:37:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2012 4:38:07 PM EDT by Durka-Durka]
Originally Posted By DaveS:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:

Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
Russia is a country founded on envy and discontent.  The results of this are the same as with an individual: bitterness and a continued effort to pull down those deemed better off.

I congratulate ANYONE who tries to tell the truth regarding this country that has, and continues to cause so much trouble for it's own people, and throughout the world.  


You know what pisses me off?  That stalin and the soviet story was barely a footnote in my history classes growing up.  They rightfully beat us over the head with the evils of nazi Germany, but hardly mentioned the greater evils posed by communism throughout the world.  It took hearing first hand stories of the attrocities from in-laws and actually visiting Latvia's Occupation Museum to get a clear picture.  

It's no wonder we're going socialist here in the US, with an education system like this.  Maybe that's the design.
I have to give the Devil it's due ––––the Soviets were second to none with propaganda, mis- and dis-information. . . they will omit, twist, inject, forge (excellently by the way) and manipulate facts and history to their purposes. . .

You know, in regard to what you wrote––-everyone knows that WW2 started when Germany invaded Poland.   Hey––you know what?  So did the USSR!  Germany and the USSR were allies at the time and divided Poland up between them. . .but that very rarely gets mentioned in the documentaries. . .

 


WTF is your point.  They were never true allies.  Hitler knew he was moving east from the getgo.

And always mentioned in the accurate docs.



His point, I believe, is that little fact, an alliance between enemies, is rarely ever spoken of.  Everyone wants to put Germany as the original agressors, which is not exactly accurate, since they had help.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 4:46:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By DaveS:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:

Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
Russia is a country founded on envy and discontent.  The results of this are the same as with an individual: bitterness and a continued effort to pull down those deemed better off.

I congratulate ANYONE who tries to tell the truth regarding this country that has, and continues to cause so much trouble for it's own people, and throughout the world.  


You know what pisses me off?  That stalin and the soviet story was barely a footnote in my history classes growing up.  They rightfully beat us over the head with the evils of nazi Germany, but hardly mentioned the greater evils posed by communism throughout the world.  It took hearing first hand stories of the attrocities from in-laws and actually visiting Latvia's Occupation Museum to get a clear picture.  

It's no wonder we're going socialist here in the US, with an education system like this.  Maybe that's the design.
I have to give the Devil it's due ––––the Soviets were second to none with propaganda, mis- and dis-information. . . they will omit, twist, inject, forge (excellently by the way) and manipulate facts and history to their purposes. . .

You know, in regard to what you wrote––-everyone knows that WW2 started when Germany invaded Poland.   Hey––you know what?  So did the USSR!  Germany and the USSR were allies at the time and divided Poland up between them. . .but that very rarely gets mentioned in the documentaries. . .

 


WTF is your point.  They were never true allies.  Hitler knew he was moving east from the getgo.

And always mentioned in the accurate docs.



His point, I believe, is that little fact, an alliance between enemies, is rarely ever spoken of.  Everyone wants to put Germany as the original agressors, which is not exactly accurate, since they had help.


And that Russians probably slaughtered more of their own and people in the countries they invaded than Germans ever dreamed of.  The big difference is that the people in Russian satellite states weren't allowed to speak or KGB, UB or whatever other commie organization would come knocking on the door.  To this day not many people want to talk about the atrocities that occurred after the war before Russia broke apart.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 4:49:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By phatmax:
I work with a guy born in the soviet union.  His family stories are just as horrific as anything a "current Russian" would consider "propaganda".  

Seriously.  The commies slaughtered tens of millions of their own people and millions of others during wars.  Nothing is beyond the abilities of russian communists in order to perpetrate their evil.


They were very good at it.  In fact, they killed something like 6 times as many people as the Nazis.
And FDR decided we should be their friends.

Patton was right, we should have taken Berlin, then kept on rolling east.  And the parts of the Wehrmacht that we hadn't destroyed would have been happy to help.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 5:05:23 PM EDT




Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:

Russia is a country founded on envy and discontent. The results of this are the same as with an individual: bitterness and a continued effort to pull down those deemed better off.



I congratulate ANYONE who tries to tell the truth regarding this country that has, and continues to cause so much trouble for it's own people, and throughout the world.


so russia is the africa of europe ?

Link Posted: 7/3/2012 5:17:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2012 5:29:00 PM EDT by pwr2al4]
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:

Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
Russia is a country founded on envy and discontent.  The results of this are the same as with an individual: bitterness and a continued effort to pull down those deemed better off.

I congratulate ANYONE who tries to tell the truth regarding this country that has, and continues to cause so much trouble for it's own people, and throughout the world.  


You know what pisses me off?  That stalin and the soviet story was barely a footnote in my history classes growing up.  They rightfully beat us over the head with the evils of nazi Germany, but hardly mentioned the greater evils posed by communism throughout the world.  It took hearing first hand stories of the attrocities from in-laws and actually visiting Latvia's Occupation Museum to get a clear picture.  

It's no wonder we're going socialist here in the US, with an education system like this.  Maybe that's the design.
I have to give the Devil it's due ––––the Soviets were second to none with propaganda, mis- and dis-information. . . they will omit, twist, inject, forge (excellently by the way) and manipulate facts and history to their purposes. . .

You know, in regard to what you wrote––-everyone knows that WW2 started when Germany invaded Poland.   Hey––you know what?  So did the USSR!  Germany and the USSR were allies at the time and divided Poland up between them. . .but that very rarely gets mentioned in the documentaries. . .

 

Theres a couple great documentaries out there by the BBC and PBS about our work in Propaganda and especially black propaganda during the war. OSS was learning their craft at the time from the British, specifically propaganda and the Brits felt that the sort of Black propaganda that was being called for was 'Not British' and chose not to broadcast it, in typical American fashion our guys said fuck it were game and got to work the results were incredibly effective. They went all out, scraping the bottom of the barrel which is exactly what a lot of those Nazi fucks were into anyway. They would generally target one prominant Nazi either .mil or party and just pound him into ashes with radio broadcasts that were sent from within Germany and were ccompletely sold as authentic undergrond Nazi gossip. Crazy sexual stuff, insane perversion,the whole nine it was fascinating what they could do to entire regiments and towns full of people with this stuff.  Ill go find the links for anyone whose interested.
The difference is of course, we only sold this shit to our enemies, they force fed it to their people.

but that very rarely gets mentioned in the documentaries. . .


Two things I never was aware of until very recently that both took place at the end of the war. when people used to talk about just marching on to Russia, I always took it tongue in cheek. I had no idea that we had actually drawn up the war plans and had serious coversations it the highest levels about what would be needed to immediately continue on and invade Russia. It was absolutely a consideration if we werent in the state we were in at the time.

Also on the other end of the spectrum, what the American Soliders were forced to do in order to return Russian Soliders back to Russia essentially by force treating them basically as POW's, after the war was over was terrible.

We should of kept a couple Nukes on standby and forced the issue with the Russians right then and there if only we knew better at the time.

Link Posted: 7/3/2012 6:19:36 PM EDT



Originally Posted By BattletweeteR:





Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:

Russia is a country founded on envy and discontent. The results of this are the same as with an individual: bitterness and a continued effort to pull down those deemed better off.



I congratulate ANYONE who tries to tell the truth regarding this country that has, and continues to cause so much trouble for it's own people, and throughout the world.


so russia is the africa of europe ?

Africa is not a country.





 
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 6:35:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
Russia is a country founded on envy and discontent.  The results of this are the same as with an individual: bitterness and a continued effort to pull down those deemed better off.

I congratulate ANYONE who tries to tell the truth regarding this country that has, and continues to cause so much trouble for it's own people, and throughout the world.  


You know what pisses me off?  That stalin and the soviet story was barely a footnote in my history classes growing up.  They rightfully beat us over the head with the evils of nazi Germany, but hardly mentioned the greater evils posed by communism throughout the world.  It took hearing first hand stories of the attrocities from in-laws and actually visiting Latvia's Occupation Museum to get a clear picture.  

It's no wonder we're going socialist here in the US, with an education system like this.  Maybe that's the design.


What school did you go to? I went to a public school here in NY and our History classes made it quite clear that Stalin and Communism was a menace throughout the world. I graduated 6 years ago.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:00:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaveS:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:

Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
Russia is a country founded on envy and discontent.  The results of this are the same as with an individual: bitterness and a continued effort to pull down those deemed better off.

I congratulate ANYONE who tries to tell the truth regarding this country that has, and continues to cause so much trouble for it's own people, and throughout the world.  


You know what pisses me off?  That stalin and the soviet story was barely a footnote in my history classes growing up.  They rightfully beat us over the head with the evils of nazi Germany, but hardly mentioned the greater evils posed by communism throughout the world.  It took hearing first hand stories of the attrocities from in-laws and actually visiting Latvia's Occupation Museum to get a clear picture.  

It's no wonder we're going socialist here in the US, with an education system like this.  Maybe that's the design.
I have to give the Devil it's due ––––the Soviets were second to none with propaganda, mis- and dis-information. . . they will omit, twist, inject, forge (excellently by the way) and manipulate facts and history to their purposes. . .

You know, in regard to what you wrote––-everyone knows that WW2 started when Germany invaded Poland.   Hey––you know what?  So did the USSR!  Germany and the USSR were allies at the time and divided Poland up between them. . .but that very rarely gets mentioned in the documentaries. . .

 


WTF is your point.  They were never true allies.  Hitler knew he was moving east from the getgo.

And always mentioned in the accurate docs.



That it was a mutual agreement of expedience and convenience between the nazis and communists.  Pretty much the same thing we had with Soviet Russia during WWII.

And the Soviets knew that they would eventually go West (wasted no time in attacking the Finns under false pretenses or splitting Poland down the middle). Stalin just didn't believe Hitler would move so fast. That purge in 1936- 37 might have given Stalin some headaches, but I guess it was better than the restless nights from the paranoia.

Link Posted: 7/3/2012 9:42:37 PM EDT

This film is full of falsify. Almost every statement could be easily refuted by the facts and documents.  

The fragments of chronicle and photos are being manipulated (it's easy to verify and make sure with original video fragments).

The authors are scumbags who trying to stir up ethnic conflict

The Soviet story - typical item of propaganda, and nothing to do with real history based documentary.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 9:47:19 PM EDT



Originally Posted By South_Side_Shooter:



Originally Posted By therusskibear:

Made in Latvia... The country where Waffen-SS veterans and ex-nazi collaborators are being celebrated as national heroes.



The truth mixed with a lot lie. Some truthful facts mixed with perverted myths and obvious fakes. As an example: people massacred by pro-nazi collaborators on photo showed as an victims of bolshevicks... Kids died during the famine in Russia (well-known photo) represented as Ukrainians died in so called "genocide" in the Ukraine. And these only visual fakes. Some statements are 100%  lie.



This is interesting pattern of modern  propaganda thought. Dr. Goebbels applaud.



I recommend the book "The Soviet strory: mechanics of lie". The author of book beat this item of propaganda (every terrific statement from this "masterpiece") with confirmed facts, referenced documents w/o any emotions (with only factual data).




Primorsky?


We hardly knew ye.



 
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 10:02:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By steinlok87:
Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
Russia is a country founded on envy and discontent.  The results of this are the same as with an individual: bitterness and a continued effort to pull down those deemed better off.

I congratulate ANYONE who tries to tell the truth regarding this country that has, and continues to cause so much trouble for it's own people, and throughout the world.  


You know what pisses me off?  That stalin and the soviet story was barely a footnote in my history classes growing up.  They rightfully beat us over the head with the evils of nazi Germany, but hardly mentioned the greater evils posed by communism throughout the world.  It took hearing first hand stories of the attrocities from in-laws and actually visiting Latvia's Occupation Museum to get a clear picture.  

It's no wonder we're going socialist here in the US, with an education system like this.  Maybe that's the design.


What school did you go to? I went to a public school here in NY and our History classes made it quite clear that Stalin and Communism was a menace throughout the world. I graduated 6 years ago.


I went to a public school and graduated 15yrs ago.  We didn't have a world history class, and was only required to take American History taught by a drunk woman who could barely tie her shoes.  We watched videos of Vietnam, took a couple tests on 1812, Civil War, and WWII, and that was about it.  The basic gist of the WWII was a few footnotes with a huge expose on Hitler.  We knew more about Ava Braugn than Stalin.  Although he was mentioned, it was more of a footnote, if I remember correctly.  

Glad to see that some places are teaching the evils of communism.  My wife's grandfather was "an intellectual" as they described him.  He was taken out of his home in the early 50's I believe and they never saw him again.  They believe he was taken to a ditch in the forrests of Riga, but no one is for certain. Most likely, he was shiped to Siberia.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 11:35:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2012 11:39:32 PM EDT by DedoBOT]
Dont confuse "Russia" with "Soviet Union". Most of the Bolshevik's leaders aren't native russians.Communism is a world wide cancer,not a russian patent. Tzarist Russia had a bad luck to have good conditions for communist's take over -highly oppressed peasants,decadent intelligentsia and shaken central power.

Anyway,very good documentary .

Link Posted: 7/3/2012 11:40:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2012 11:40:16 PM EDT by ArmyInfantryVet]
The Soviet Union was the most evil regime in human history. Fuck them.




 
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 12:01:01 AM EDT
SU and Nazzi Germany are both faces of the same coin.
 
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 12:19:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By therusskibear:
Made in Latvia... The country where Waffen-SS veterans and ex-nazi collaborators are being celebrated as national heroes.

The truth mixed with a lot lie. Some truthful facts mixed with perverted myths and obvious fakes. As an example: people massacred by pro-nazi collaborators on photo showed as an victims of bolshevicks... Kids died during the famine in Russia (well-known photo) represented as Ukrainians died in so called "genocide" in the Ukraine. And these only visual fakes. Some statements are 100%  lie.

This is interesting pattern of modern  propaganda thought. Dr. Goebbels applaud.

I recommend the book "The Soviet strory: mechanics of lie". The author of book beat this item of propaganda (every terrific statement from this "masterpiece") with confirmed facts, referenced documents w/o any emotions (with only factual data).


The famine WAS a genocide you goober. Go be a troll somewhere else.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 12:23:48 AM EDT
All of you American guys should read the story of Alexander Dolgun by the way.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 12:43:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 36_gauge:
All of you American guys should read the story of Alexander Dolgun by the way.



Well that was pretty fucked up (Dolgun's story summarized)

No support whatsoever from the only people who may have been able to help
him, and he still didn't crack. That's a tough s.o.b. right there.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 12:52:03 AM EDT
All of those little countries in the middle were subjected to harsh times. Each one had it's share of ethnic violence that swung from one faction to another depending on which tyrant ruled them that day.
Poland was pretty well fucked from the start. England and France had formed an alliance with them, but left them hangin in the breeze when the shooting started. Then the government in exile was forced to play nice with the Soviets and they actually tried until the Katyn massacre was documented by the Red Cross in '43. How fucked up a regime do you have to be for the NAZIs to be able to point a legitimate finger of blame at you for commiting atrocities?

And what do you suppose happened to General Sikorski ?  Mark me down for conspiracy theory.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 1:36:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 5:09:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:

Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
Russia is a country founded on envy and discontent.  The results of this are the same as with an individual: bitterness and a continued effort to pull down those deemed better off.

I congratulate ANYONE who tries to tell the truth regarding this country that has, and continues to cause so much trouble for it's own people, and throughout the world.  


You know what pisses me off?  That stalin and the soviet story was barely a footnote in my history classes growing up.  They rightfully beat us over the head with the evils of nazi Germany, but hardly mentioned the greater evils posed by communism throughout the world.  It took hearing first hand stories of the attrocities from in-laws and actually visiting Latvia's Occupation Museum to get a clear picture.  

It's no wonder we're going socialist here in the US, with an education system like this.  Maybe that's the design.
I have to give the Devil it's due ––––the Soviets were second to none with propaganda, mis- and dis-information. . . they will omit, twist, inject, forge (excellently by the way) and manipulate facts and history to their purposes. . .

You know, in regard to what you wrote––-everyone knows that WW2 started when Germany invaded Poland.   Hey––you know what?  So did the USSR!  Germany and the USSR were allies at the time and divided Poland up between them. . .but that very rarely gets mentioned in the documentaries. . .

 

In 13 April 1950, a message from the Allied High Commission (HICOG), signed by John J. McCloy to the Secretary of State, clarified the US position on the "Baltic Legions: "they were not to be seen as "movements", "volunteer", or "SS." In short, they had not

been given the training, indoctrination, and induction normally given to SS members.[20] Subsequently the US Displaced Persons Commission in September 1950 declared that: The Baltic Waffen SS Units (Baltic Legions) are to be considered as separate and

distinct in purpose, ideology, activities, and qualifications for membership from the German SS, and therefore the Commission holds them not to be a movement hostile to the Government of the United States.

Link Posted: 7/4/2012 5:42:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2012 5:42:45 AM EDT by Fatbert]





Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:



Originally Posted By therusskibear:


Made in Latvia... The country where Waffen-SS veterans and ex-nazi collaborators are being celebrated as national heroes.











For fucks sake that argument never gets old with you people, does it?  For any Americans who want to repeat the shit this poster is espousing, here's some perspective:  Picture yourself in between two of the most ruthless nations in history.  One comes and occupies your land, then takes away a significant part of your population.  Then another comes in and forces those assholes out, promising you freedom from the other.  You're desperate, who do you fight for?





The Latvian SS as well as the other nationalities who had SS units, weren't the gas chamber masters that their German counterparts were.  It was just a unit designation to them, albiet a special one.  They celebrate those who thought they were fighting to free their country, but the average socialist/communist in Europe hates that.  Funny how you'all never complain when the Russians have memorials and celebrations for their soviet soldiers who fought during that time.



The Latvians were more than happy to help with killing Jews.





Hitler and the people at the top of the Nazi regime was satanically evil. You can't compromise with people like that and walk away with your moral integrity unquestioned.





 
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 7:10:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Fatbert:

Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By therusskibear:
Made in Latvia... The country where Waffen-SS veterans and ex-nazi collaborators are being celebrated as national heroes.



For fucks sake that argument never gets old with you people, does it?  For any Americans who want to repeat the shit this poster is espousing, here's some perspective:  Picture yourself in between two of the most ruthless nations in history.  One comes and occupies your land, then takes away a significant part of your population.  Then another comes in and forces those assholes out, promising you freedom from the other.  You're desperate, who do you fight for?

The Latvian SS as well as the other nationalities who had SS units, weren't the gas chamber masters that their German counterparts were.  It was just a unit designation to them, albiet a special one.  They celebrate those who thought they were fighting to free their country, but the average socialist/communist in Europe hates that.  Funny how you'all never complain when the Russians have memorials and celebrations for their soviet soldiers who fought during that time.

The Latvians were more than happy to help with killing Jews.

Hitler and the people at the top of the Nazi regime was satanically evil. You can't compromise with people like that and walk away with your moral integrity unquestioned.
 

The Baltic peoples were admittedly jackbooted around by the Soviets, but that doesn't change the fact that the Balts, Latvians and Lithuanians in particular, have a lot on their conscience regarding the extermination of their Jewish minorities. Being in their turn mistreated and massacred by the Soviets doesn't turn them into sinless martyrs or immaculate angels. At the end of the day this is just another "your shit stinks worse than mine" -debate. In this age of identity politics, everybody likes to feel victimized and privileged.
Link Posted: 7/6/2012 11:45:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Brutusfennicus:
Originally Posted By Fatbert:

Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By therusskibear:
Made in Latvia... The country where Waffen-SS veterans and ex-nazi collaborators are being celebrated as national heroes.



For fucks sake that argument never gets old with you people, does it?  For any Americans who want to repeat the shit this poster is espousing, here's some perspective:  Picture yourself in between two of the most ruthless nations in history.  One comes and occupies your land, then takes away a significant part of your population.  Then another comes in and forces those assholes out, promising you freedom from the other.  You're desperate, who do you fight for?

The Latvian SS as well as the other nationalities who had SS units, weren't the gas chamber masters that their German counterparts were.  It was just a unit designation to them, albiet a special one.  They celebrate those who thought they were fighting to free their country, but the average socialist/communist in Europe hates that.  Funny how you'all never complain when the Russians have memorials and celebrations for their soviet soldiers who fought during that time.

The Latvians were more than happy to help with killing Jews.

Hitler and the people at the top of the Nazi regime was satanically evil. You can't compromise with people like that and walk away with your moral integrity unquestioned.
 

The Baltic peoples were admittedly jackbooted around by the Soviets, but that doesn't change the fact that the Balts, Latvians and Lithuanians in particular, have a lot on their conscience regarding the extermination of their Jewish minorities. Being in their turn mistreated and massacred by the Soviets doesn't turn them into sinless martyrs or immaculate angels. At the end of the day this is just another "your shit stinks worse than mine" -debate. In this age of identity politics, everybody likes to feel victimized and privileged.


The Estonians too. But lets not kid ourselves, eastern europe had a long history of anti-semitism.
Link Posted: 7/6/2012 12:53:56 PM EDT
View Quote

Theres a couple great documentaries out there by the BBC and PBS about our work in Propaganda and especially black propaganda during the war. OSS was learning their craft at the time from the British, specifically propaganda and the Brits felt that the sort of Black propaganda that was being called for was 'Not British' and chose not to broadcast it, in typical American fashion our guys said fuck it were game and got to work the results were incredibly effective. They went all out, scraping the bottom of the barrel which is exactly what a lot of those Nazi fucks were into anyway. They would generally target one prominant Nazi either .mil or party and just pound him into ashes with radio broadcasts that were sent from within Germany and were ccompletely sold as authentic undergrond Nazi gossip. Crazy sexual stuff, insane perversion,the whole nine it was fascinating what they could do to entire regiments and towns full of people with this stuff.  Ill go find the links for anyone whose interested.
The difference is of course, we only sold this shit to our enemies, they force fed it to their people.


Not to quibble, but the British were doing it as well. Read up on Sefton Delmer and Soldatsender Calais.

And anyone who says we should have invaded the Soviet Union post 1945 is barking mad. We couldn't do it. Period. Between the logistical issues and the fifth column, we would have been screwed.




Link Posted: 7/6/2012 1:02:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 36_gauge:
Originally Posted By therusskibear:
Made in Latvia... The country where Waffen-SS veterans and ex-nazi collaborators are being celebrated as national heroes.

The truth mixed with a lot lie. Some truthful facts mixed with perverted myths and obvious fakes. As an example: people massacred by pro-nazi collaborators on photo showed as an victims of bolshevicks... Kids died during the famine in Russia (well-known photo) represented as Ukrainians died in so called "genocide" in the Ukraine. And these only visual fakes. Some statements are 100%  lie.

This is interesting pattern of modern  propaganda thought. Dr. Goebbels applaud.

I recommend the book "The Soviet strory: mechanics of lie". The author of book beat this item of propaganda (every terrific statement from this "masterpiece") with confirmed facts, referenced documents w/o any emotions (with only factual data).


The famine WAS a genocide you goober. Go be a troll somewhere else.


A Turk talking about genocide? That's rich. I don't know whether to laugh or cry...

Link Posted: 7/6/2012 1:11:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By grognard1:
Originally Posted By 36_gauge:
Originally Posted By therusskibear:
Made in Latvia... The country where Waffen-SS veterans and ex-nazi collaborators are being celebrated as national heroes.

The truth mixed with a lot lie. Some truthful facts mixed with perverted myths and obvious fakes. As an example: people massacred by pro-nazi collaborators on photo showed as an victims of bolshevicks... Kids died during the famine in Russia (well-known photo) represented as Ukrainians died in so called "genocide" in the Ukraine. And these only visual fakes. Some statements are 100%  lie.

This is interesting pattern of modern  propaganda thought. Dr. Goebbels applaud.

I recommend the book "The Soviet strory: mechanics of lie". The author of book beat this item of propaganda (every terrific statement from this "masterpiece") with confirmed facts, referenced documents w/o any emotions (with only factual data).


The famine WAS a genocide you goober. Go be a troll somewhere else.


A Turk talking about genocide? That's rich. I don't know whether to laugh or cry...



I wonder if you'd say the same thing about a German...

what about a thread about blankets and small pox?

are your ancestors sinless enough for you to cast the first stone?
Link Posted: 7/6/2012 1:38:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By South_Side_Shooter:
Great doc. But there aren't any English subtitles for the Russian language parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j296ubWIRzM


Thanks this is good info. I face booked it.
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