Posted: 5/4/2009 8:17:28 PM EDT
| I'm trying to do some legal research on why NY is so darn problematic on getting their draconian and idiotic gun laws struck. It doesn't help, of course, that we have only had Heller for a year or so and thus far the only court challenge based on it is the half baked Maloney case. But apparently the problem lies further back, much further, yes? Someone commenting on my thoughts on lawsuit routes told me it was a problem of decades of precedent, that my analysis of things in light of what I know was severely lacking a clue. OK, so I need an education on the matter: what's the lineage of court decisions in the state and 2nd Circuit which keep NY so iron clad screwed up? Is it something more than the 2nd circuit childishly putting their fingers in their ears and saying "Lalalalala....no I don't wanna do it, no I don't wanna do it, we hate guns, we hate guns, we hate guns...lalalalalalala!" |
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It seems to be a congruence of factors, best asked about in the hometown forum.
1. New York City cultivates a more educated populace that has a difficult time acknowledging the existence of mindless criminality. 2. New York City similarly has a populace that is very cooperative. People go there to live near one another. That mindset is at complete odds with self-reliance. 3. NYS has no state approximation of the second amendment; the right to keep and bear arms is not codified in the state constitution, unlike in many other states. 4. NYS had as rough a time during segregation as other states, and probably felt no great fondness for arming the black population. 5. There's probably an argument that the state has a much older history of conflict than other states. The civil war here was just a place that sons went to die. It wasn't, largely, fought here. Nor were the mexican wars or the other various border wars. The most recent battles were mostly during the war of 1812, which really encourages a view of "it'll never happen here". Some consideration of the city and state's shock at the 9/11 attacks is also warranted. London had a much more placid response to the subway attacks they endured. I think that had less to do with the severity of each attack than it did with the recency of IRA attacks and, of course, the WWII bombing campaign and such. Of course, they also have even more severe gun control, so who knows. I'd like to hear more about your findings. I'm curious about the subject myself. |
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Good info, but that explains the population and legislative makeup, not what I'm looking for. I'm asking about the case law structure in both the New York state courts and the US 2nd Circuit which upholds these laws rather than voiding them. What cases, dating back I guess to where it started with the Sullivan Law in 1911 (or before?) have been used as the precedent to avoid striking down these absolutely horrid laws?
Nationally, I know that in 1833 Barron v. Baltimore said that the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to the states, hence the need for the 14th Amendment, and then when we got it there were still the Slaughterhouse cases then US v. Cruikshank and Presser v. Illinois which stated that the 2nd Amendment wasn't an individual right AND didn't apply to the states. So there was until the Heller decision in 2008 a span of over 100 years where states such as NY and CA could say "What Second Amendment? We can do what we want, and we don't like you having guns and you have no standing to change that." California used this in lots of cases, the most well known of which being Hickman v. Block, Fresno Rifle v. Van de Kaamp, and Silveira v. Lockyer, all of which were terrible rulings but hinged on the federal stuff...AND prior cases that said the same. After a while they could simply quote their own rulings, no matter how old or how bad, and all attempts to right the wrongs are squelched by stare decisis. This problem has been removed thanks to Nordyke v. King. I'm looking for what cases the pro 2A folks are up against in NY which are to be contended with when our side brings lawsuits against the anti gun legal-political machine. |