Posted: 9/30/2008 5:21:30 PM EDT
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Obama and McCain call for raise in FDIC insurance to $250,000. FDIC requests it. Both call for bailout to pass to protect the American people. All networks parroting "Main Street in jeapordy" line. K Street descends on Capitol Hill. SENATE will vote on bill Wednesday evening. Back to the House on Thursday. A Seven Hundred Billion Dollar Heist, in broad daylight. Kind of. Well, now the problem has identified itself and it ain't Wall Street. Discuss. Hax |
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What if they devised a plan to cut the ridiculously high interest rates for people treading water with ARMS, and high interest CC bills/loans etc. and cut them down to a reasonable rate, say 5.5 -6%? For example - my mortgage is at 12% and only 83.00 goes towards principal. Granted some is escrow/insurance/tax - but most of it is interest. If they gave us a fair rate it would free up thousands of dollars per household per month for us to "stimulate the economy with". 
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"They". That would be me? Let me get back to you on that. |
So, all the people who could only qualify for 12% APRs now get their interest rate cut in half by fiat. Would that mean that I would have my interest rate cut in half as well? No? So, you got to play with crap credit, or get a house you couldn't afford, while I lived within my means, and now you get to keep everything and get a pass? That would be so much bullshit, and just another example of the "Whine enough till someone in .gov changes it" mentality that is ruining this country. |
+1 No shit. |
+1 |
<-- Me
Maybe you should rent.  And stop going on cruise vactaions the rest of us can't afford. You didn't happen to charge that did you? Not busting your balls in particular but this is the fucking problem. Living beyond your means. |
Nope... No joy... The economy doesn't need 'simulating', this is a problem SPECIFIC to the commercial credit market... The folks who bought too much house need to eat it this time.... The problem has to be fixed on wall street... |
What the hell are you talking about? Was that directed at me? |
Maybe you should have bought what you could afford. 12% interest on a mortgage indicates poor credit. Do you have a history of skipping out on your debts? Either way, your situation is just that, "your situation", I am not willing to bail you out for your poor decisions........ no offense |
No shit, %12 you are being hammered in multiple holes at once. If that is all you can get, tell them FOAD and rent. |
Nice assumption. I don't have crap credit or buy a house I couldn't afford. I signed an agreement I shouldn't have that was explained to me as fixed at 6% - and would then be an ARM but was promised "All you have to do is call us and we'll re-fi you for fixed again." Bad move on my part, but the broker was a friend and I trusted him. I can't re-fi now because all my neighbors DID have shit credit and DID buy above their means and foreclosed. I lot 49K in equity in the last 3 years and there's not a damn thing I can do about it except make the payment - which I do. But I don't have a lot of extra jack floating around after that to put back into the local economy, that's for sure. Who's fucking whining - I'm in this position for 2 reasons. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing so it's my own damn fault, and now that I do - there's nothing that CAN be done due to plummeting property values from all the foreclosures in my neighborhood. All you guys with your attitudes and +1 bullshit have convinced yourselves that the only people in shitty positions are dirtbags that deserve it. Some of us are hard working families between a rock and a hard place. I'm not looking for a handout - I work over 1oo hrs a week for fucks sake. A fair interest rate would allow many people to spend more freely. |
Look at the big brain on kikomax! The cruise was paid for a month before we left. I have less than 3K in CC debt, and if you can't afford a cruise maybe I'm not the one living beyond their means. Just sayin  ETA: AND RENT? You mean foreclose and go rent? Like the rest of the DB's on my block did? Cause you sure the fuck can't sell a house with 49K in negative equity, unless you want to make payments on the difference. I've never missed or been late on a payment and I won't lose my house, cause I'll buckle down and work as much as it takes to get through this bullshit. |
It was a fair assumption to make without the details - most people would have (and did) assume the same thing. Sorry you got schnookered - also sorry you didn't have a real estate attorney look over your documents. Sorry your friend screwed you (note - never do business with friends and family). BUT - well, you know what I'm going to say. Why should everyone else get the shaft and not get the same "deal" as you? |
I can live with that opinion. My rationale was the Feds wouldn't have to spend 700 Billion to make something like this happen. Just impose a cap on the interest rates to free up some capital. I don't think anyone's gotta worry about my idea coming true - so your money's still safe. 
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Hell - I wish everyone could get the same deal - and a free box of boolits! It seems to me that the fundamental problem with the economy now is that there are a lot of people like me, that made naive/bad decisions. I make no excuses. It's my fault - I signed. I don't follow how a reduction in my rate shafts anyone else though? If you're at 5% and I get 6% is it "shafting" you or are you just not getting a break too? (Serious question - no sarcasm on my part). |
How in the hell WOULD you be paying my mortgage? What past credit issues are you referencing - did you read my posts at all? I already admitted that I signed it - and I AM dealing with it. Appreciate all that constructive input though.
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No, GR8... 1) 12% was 'fair' in the 80s, BTW - actually, it was damn exceptional... The concept of a 'fair' rate depends on the times, and right now we are in record-low interest rate territory... ARM rates are set by the free market (LIBOR, etc), not by the Fed... Thus, they fluctuate based on market conditions... 2) This is NOT ABOUT HOME OWNERS, MORTGAGES, OR ARMS - it's about the level of confidence in the bond and commercial credit market... THAT IS WHY THE BAILOUT IS DIRECTED AT BOND PURCHASING.... BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THE CRIPPLING PROBLEM IS - IN THE FUCKING BOND MARKET.... NOT IN REAL ESTATE! |
Dave - you have a much greater understanding of this crisis than I do. If your heart stops, or your house is on fire, I'm your guy. I guess that's why I left myself open to such a dogpiling with my sugesstion to the OP's question. I'm not real bright when it comes to real estate/ mortgages and that's how I arrived at where I am now. But I do very well with budgeting my money, so I can still afford to have nice things, and take an annual vacation. I just have to bust ass all year long to do it. So it might not come as easy for me as it does for some of you, but it still comes. Hell, if something does come easy for me I'm immediately suspicious of it.  ETA: Oh yeah - I did lose my ass in my Deferred COmpensation plan - but I reckon some day it'll all come back around. Right guys.............. right.......guys? 
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I'm NOT directing this comment at anyone in this thread whatsoever, so don't anyone take this the wrong way. But I will say this... We have a choice in this country between two things: 1. Freedom, and the self reliance and responsibility for one's own destiny that goes with it. and, 2. A government provided security blanket that provides cradle to grave protection for everyone through socialism, and absolves anyone from ever having to worry about being responsible for their own destiny. We have come to a point in this country where we are confronted with a profound fundamental question - do you want to be FREE, or do you want to be SOCIALIST. Choose carefully, because you CANNOT have both - the two concepts are totally mutually exclusive and hostile to each other. This is why it comes as NO SURPRISE that socialists hate guns. Decide which side of that line you come down on, and vote accordingly. I know my answer, and I always will. |
well said sir. |
Well, here's the rub... The choice of 'NO BAILOUT' is the choice to be SOCIALIST... Because that is the inevitable result of allowing a crash.... |
I'm not so sure that the logic train goes "Market Crash -> *pow* !Commies!" like you think it does, Dave. |
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There is no easy fix to this. It is going to cause us pain, no matter what. So my thought is... since it's going to hurt anyway, fuck those assholes that caused this. No bailout. The system will correct itself. It will hurt and take time, but it will FIX ITS OWN DAMNED SELF. The free market is like that. More socialism is not the cure for every goddamned problem that has been CAUSED by socialist policies in the first fucking place. Now let's also get rid of those jackyls in DC that contributed all they could to this mess. But that's not going to happen. What will happen is... in another few days the media will have enough people convinced we HAVE to do this, and Congress will pass the bailout, and we'll be handed the bill. |
But, but, but, if we don't vote for a lesser evil we're just HANDING the vote to the bigger evil!!! Battle cry of the enablers who have ruined American conservatism. |
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I guess, when it comes down to it, is that there is no free lunch. Trust me, I am NOT tring to dogpile on you. It is a shitty situation you are in - normally you would be able to refinance. In fact, I think it might be in everyone's best interest if it WAS easier for you to refinance and get out of that abortion of an interest rate. However, I'd say there would have to be some stipulations and maybe even some costs involved in making that happen. If i understand correctly, you can't get the amount of loan you need due to the drop in your home's value vs. what your original mortgage was for, correct? So you are "stuck" paying this mortgage at that rate. Perhaps if there was a way of making banks give you a loan based on the value of the home when you bought it, with protections for them if you defaulted before the value came back in line with the original price, then it might work. It is funny - someone who got a 30 year fixed rate 3 years ago on a $200,000 house that is now worth $150,000 is in no danger as long as he doesn't try to refinance. But the guy who has an ARM or bad rate mortgage who is trying to refinance now is screwed because of the lower value. I suppose one way around it is to pay the difference with another loan, but most can't do that. I guess these are the inherent dangers of such large loans - our grandparents never had to deal with this as most of them paid cash or had very large downpayments on houses, and the house payments didn't eat such a huge portion of their budget every month. That and taxes and insurance weren't so bad. I've always wondered, though, if maybe we should have a "house-swap" in situations like this. The people living in smaller, older houses with low mortgages and equity could be given the opportunity to "swap" houses with the people who bought WAY too much house and got bad/short-sighted loans. You get my house and my mortgage, and I'll get your house but at the now much-lowered value, and since my credit and liquidity is greater, and I have more equity built up, I'll get a damn good APR and have a larger downpayment. You'll still be able to afford my house payment, but you'll just end up finally living in the sort of house you SHOULD have gotten in the first place, and I'll be getting a nice reward for doing the right thing from the start. Hmm - may have to start a new thread! |
I'm not going to pile on like a lot of these self righteous financial geniuses have, but you should ask yourself one question: What constitutes a "REASONABLE" rate? Hint: It is not 5.5 or 6%. That rate will probably not even outpace future inflation. A "reasonable" rate is one that outpaces inflation and fairly compensates investors for the risk they are undertaking in lending you the money. Around 10% would be my guess. |
There's really no other logical conclusion... Look what happened with FDR after the 29 crash.... |
How don't you get this: IT IS NOT ABOUT HOUSES OR REAL ESTATE! |
Hanging usually doesn't cause blood letting, does it?  Maybe using barbed wire would!  Texan by Choice..... 
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| Sooner or later people are going to get tired of paying for other people's fuckups or them just being lazy. Those people will get tired of it and quit paying taxes. Remember what happened the last time a bunch of Americans were told to pay taxes when they felt they were not represented? Congress has been told 10 to 1 not to go with the bailout. Three years ago I would have considered the following timeline as batshit crazy tinfoilism, now I'm not so sure. 1. Market gets bailed out and fails anyway, against the will of the people and costing hundreds of billions 2. Taxes are raised to cover the funds 3. Credit gets hard to find and people start getting fired through no fault of their own 4. Obama gets elected and promptly starts a shooting war with Pakistan while also deploying American troops on American soil 5. People get fed up 6. TSHTF and all of the ARFCOMers that thought it would be awesome find it to be the suck 7. meanwhile Russia runs all over Europe. I hope that is just crazy speculation of an event that will never happen, but it seems a possibility now. |
No worries - I knew I was going to take somewhat of a beating. This is ARFCOM! FWIW - the idea I mentioned wasn't actually mine. It was being discussed on our local talk radio station yesterday (610 WTVN) and we were debating it around the firehouse. I was foolish enough to sign on the line, which amounts to me pretty much wiping my ass with 1000.00 a month in additional interest that I could be spending on other things, or saving. Out of all the dogpiling,  I did get a better understanding of what is actually occuring in the crisis & potential bailout plan, and 1 ARFCOM member actually took the time to present me with a posible solution via IM.  In the end, I'll be the last guy living on my block (which means I don't have to worry about shitty neighbors) , and I'll have ARFCRUISE 09 paid off by July - see you all there. 
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What about this program fellas? www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=133&t=765385 |
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This. |