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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:26:26 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:28:04 AM EDT
[#2]
We won't see an update from the OP.
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:28:10 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: What do you reckon the result will be ? My gut tells me it will shoot a tad over 1” with 77gn. That’s with a decent scope mount of course and not a flexible flyer lever type. WHG |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:28:47 AM EDT
[#4]
If nothing is wrong, the incident will be memory-holed
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:29:46 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My gut tells me it will shoot a tad over 1” with 77gn. That’s with a decent scope mount of course and not a flexible flyer lever type. WHG 
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:30:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My gut tells me it will shoot a tad over 1” with 77gn. That’s with a decent scope mount of course and not a flexible flyer lever type. WHG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What do you reckon the result will be ? My gut tells me it will shoot a tad over 1” with 77gn. That’s with a decent scope mount of course and not a flexible flyer lever type. WHG I did mention this way back. When troubleshooting, I have lost count of the probkems caused by insecure mounts. And poor quality ones. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:32:15 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My gut tells me it will shoot a tad over 1” with 77gn. That’s with a decent scope mount of course and not a flexible flyer lever type. WHG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What do you reckon the result will be ? My gut tells me it will shoot a tad over 1” with 77gn. That’s with a decent scope mount of course and not a flexible flyer lever type. WHG Please let us know what you find regarding his barrel/rail alignment and rear sight windage claims. It's entirely possible the upper receiver is out of true, but it's also entirely possible he was nitpicking and spooking at shadows. I'd love to see some measurements and verification one way or the other. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:32:17 AM EDT
[#8]
I did testing of returned rifles at a manufacturer, and I would say about 70% of the time, I would send the rifle back with a sub-MOA group.
I would yard the optic off that the customer sent with the rifle, and put my 25X ATACR on. LOTS of optics installation issues, and honestly a lot of just bad shooters. But it could be an issue with the rifle as well. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:32:43 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did mention this way back. When troubleshooting, I have lost count of the probkems caused by insecure mounts. And poor quality ones. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:43:11 AM EDT
[#10]
I wish the poll allowed for multiple answers.
My vote is that groups will improve with the addition of a good optic/mount and a good shooter.  The guy simply got hung up on the "4 MOA" response from Geissele. The rifle itself seems to be shooting about 2 MOA based on his posted results, but considering there really wasn't much difference in his group sizes between the different barrels he tested, I'm very curious to see what the rifle is capable of in another shooter's hands. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:47:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Bill puts another scope and mount on it and it shoots under 1 MOA while filming it. He does a drop test and it again shoots under 1MOA and just to make sure he does another drop test and again it shoots under 1MOA.
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:48:01 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bill puts another scope and mount on it and it shoots under 1 MOA while filming it. He does a drop test and it again shoots under 1MOA and just to make sure he does another drop test and again it shoots under 1MOA. But is the rail bent? |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:03:21 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryI would yard the optic off that the customer sent with the rifle, @TZLVredmist What does this mean? Did you mean to write "yank the optic off". If so, gotcha 
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:29:14 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My gut tells me it will shoot a tad over 1” with 77gn. That’s with a decent scope mount of course and not a flexible flyer lever type. WHG Can you please elaborate? |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:33:01 AM EDT
[#15]
Speaking of returned SD rifles anyone remember the genius that shot 300 BO out of his 556 SD rifle then proceeded to blame G? That was a great thread. G punched the 300 BO projectile out of the barrel and shot it and worked great.
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:33:25 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @TZLVredmist What does this mean? Did you mean to write "yank the optic off". If so, gotcha Quote HistoryQuoted: I would yard the optic off that the customer sent with the rifle, @TZLVredmist What does this mean? Did you mean to write "yank the optic off". If so, gotcha It's a fairly common colloquialism, in my experience. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/143453/yard-in-the-sense-of-pulling-hard-on-something I also happen to come from a logging community where "yarders" are common pieces of equipment. That may have something to do with it.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 10:37:57 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speaking of returned SD rifles anyone remember the genius that shot 300 BO out of his 556 SD rifle then proceeded to blame G? That was a great thread. G punched the 300 BO projectile out of the barrel and shot it and worked great. That was an amazing thread. Anyone got a link to it? |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 11:27:14 AM EDT
[#18]
I do. I believe Bill warrantied it for free also.
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Posted: 5/18/2022 11:33:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a fairly common colloquialism, in my experience. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/143453/yard-in-the-sense-of-pulling-hard-on-something I also happen to come from a logging community where "yarders" are common pieces of equipment. That may have something to do with it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/72701/download__11__jpeg-2388083.JPG I thought the same thing. I use "yard" all the time. But then I notice you are in Oregon. The poster that originally posted it is Idaho. Maybe it's more of a NW thing? |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 11:36:10 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did testing of returned rifles at a manufacturer, and I would say about 70% of the time, I would send the rifle back with a sub-MOA group. I would yard the optic off that the customer sent with the rifle, and put my 25X ATACR on. LOTS of optics installation issues, and honestly a lot of just bad shooters. But it could be an issue with the rifle as well. Sometimes it helps to send it off to someone with more resources too. IE: known good ammos, extra mounts, optics, muzzle devices, and tools they know are good. Its kind of hard to troubleshoot some things when you have no spares or way of knowing its good. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 11:38:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sometimes it helps to send it off to someone with more resources too. IE: known good ammos, extra mounts, optics, muzzle devices, and tools they know are good. Its kind of hard to troubleshoot some things when you have no spares or way of knowing its good. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I did testing of returned rifles at a manufacturer, and I would say about 70% of the time, I would send the rifle back with a sub-MOA group. I would yard the optic off that the customer sent with the rifle, and put my 25X ATACR on. LOTS of optics installation issues, and honestly a lot of just bad shooters. But it could be an issue with the rifle as well. Sometimes it helps to send it off to someone with more resources too. IE: known good ammos, extra mounts, optics, muzzle devices, and tools they know are good. Its kind of hard to troubleshoot some things when you have no spares or way of knowing its good. Sometimes just letting another person shoot it is the best troubleshooting you can do. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 11:40:55 AM EDT
[#22]
Someone else shoots it, and all is well.
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Posted: 5/18/2022 11:53:04 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was an amazing thread. Anyone got a link to it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Speaking of returned SD rifles anyone remember the genius that shot 300 BO out of his 556 SD rifle then proceeded to blame G? That was a great thread. G punched the 300 BO projectile out of the barrel and shot it and worked great. That was an amazing thread. Anyone got a link to it? Here it is. IIRC, BG ended up taking care of that guy anyway: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/My-Geissele-Super-Duty-exploded-Update-Bill-called/5-2396816/?page=1 There was also the thread where a member was making a pretty cowboy build, BG saw it and must have liked it, and sent the dude a bunch of parts. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Geissele-blow-me-up-too-Upper-constrxn-begins-/5-2403956/?page=1 |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 11:57:21 AM EDT
[#24]
I am looking forward to the results. I think this video did some brand damage to G.
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Posted: 5/18/2022 12:05:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here it is. IIRC, BG ended up taking care of that guy anyway: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/My-Geissele-Super-Duty-exploded-Update-Bill-called/5-2396816/?page=1 There was also the thread where a member was making a pretty cowboy build, BG saw it and must have liked it, and sent the dude a bunch of parts. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Geissele-blow-me-up-too-Upper-constrxn-begins-/5-2403956/?page=1 |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 12:21:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am looking forward to the results. I think this video did some brand damage to G. Personally, I don't think it did. The only real criticism I could gather from the video was that the guy requested to proceed with the RMA process on the 12th, and hadn't heard back from Geissele yet by the 14th. That's the only definitive thing we know from the video, and was the very first thing Bill addressed in his response. His group sizes seem rather average with all of the barrels he tested, so it's really hard to say if the bad group with the 77gr Razor Core was a fluke or not. Remember, these group sizes are all a sample size of one, which could easily be skewed by operator error.  Attached FileWe also heard his claim about the barrel/rail alignment and rear sight windage adjustment issues, but that brings up the question of whether the upper receiver is out of true, the barrel bent, or the rail out of alignment. Hard to say until things get measured properly. As long as Geissele follows through with the RMA process and evaluation, the only thing we can really ding them for at this point is a slow response time. I'm not a fanboy by any means, nor do I have a dog in this fight. I'm just trying to look at it from an outside perspective and treat it like you would any warranty claim and evaluation. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 12:26:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the same thing. I use "yard" all the time. But then I notice you are in Oregon. The poster that originally posted it is Idaho. Maybe it's more of a NW thing? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's a fairly common colloquialism, in my experience. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/143453/yard-in-the-sense-of-pulling-hard-on-something I also happen to come from a logging community where "yarders" are common pieces of equipment. That may have something to do with it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/72701/download__11__jpeg-2388083.JPG I thought the same thing. I use "yard" all the time. But then I notice you are in Oregon. The poster that originally posted it is Idaho. Maybe it's more of a NW thing? I’ve never heard it. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 12:27:10 PM EDT
[#28]
These threads always end well… for Geissele.
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Posted: 5/18/2022 12:28:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve never heard it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's a fairly common colloquialism, in my experience. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/143453/yard-in-the-sense-of-pulling-hard-on-something I also happen to come from a logging community where "yarders" are common pieces of equipment. That may have something to do with it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/72701/download__11__jpeg-2388083.JPG I thought the same thing. I use "yard" all the time. But then I notice you are in Oregon. The poster that originally posted it is Idaho. Maybe it's more of a NW thing? I’ve never heard it. Again, it may be a colloquial logging term used here in the PNW. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 2:08:14 PM EDT
[#30]
It's humid this time of year and the barrel will rust during shipping.
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Posted: 5/18/2022 3:45:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We won't see an update from the OP. Is the guy that posted the video a member of arfcom? |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 3:50:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the guy that posted the video a member of arfcom? Probably. The op posted a video with minimal views. Not a rocket surgeon but he either went to the absolute ends of youtube to find that video, another forum and posted it here or its him. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 4:21:32 PM EDT
[#33]
Watched the video, feel like the guy who made it is genuine, but I think he got inside his own head. He bore scoped the barrel and found what he thought was damage. At that point, his mind, conscious or unconscious, was turned against the barrel. The response from the customer service rep referring to 4.5 MOA mil standards for the M16A2/M855 didn't really help this at all in the context of Geiselle's reputation, allusions to superior performance, and price point While the groups the guy shot might be perceived to show poor performance from the Geissele, they aren't definitive in any way and none of the barrel/bullet combos in his chart really stands out.
I'm not a fan boy, but I think Geissele puts out a good product. In fact, I've got a 14.5" SD upper waiting on the chance to get some long gun range time with the intent it becomes my go-to carbine based on what I think is a great barrel profile, a (hopefully) well proportioned gas port, and a good rail (I really dig that keyed rail/upper interface). So, I hope for the best outcome for both sides in this. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 7:45:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @TZLVredmist What does this mean? Did you mean to write "yank the optic off". If so, gotcha Quote HistoryQuoted: I would yard the optic off that the customer sent with the rifle, @TZLVredmist What does this mean? Did you mean to write "yank the optic off". If so, gotcha Yard... goes to the junk yard, set it in the yard.... It's a thing round these parts! |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 7:47:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: What do you reckon the result will be ? 
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Posted: 5/18/2022 7:54:01 PM EDT
[#36]
In for “We tightened everything up, ran a bore snake through it an got 1/2” groups at 500 yards with 77gr”
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Posted: 5/18/2022 7:54:20 PM EDT
[#37]
where's that dagnabbit michael jackson pop corn jpg?
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Posted: 5/18/2022 7:56:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No clue I am just looking at your avatar Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What do you reckon the result will be ? Yeah…I’m gonna need a source for that avatar. For research purposes. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:08:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn't there one where a guy claimed he dropped his G rail on the carpet and it bent, but it turned out his wife threw/beat it against the safe or something? And they still sent him a new rail. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:19:12 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In for “We tightened everything up, ran a bore snake through it an got 1/2” groups at 500 yards with 77gr” Do I win something if I can do that? |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:22:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: In for “We tightened everything up, ran a bore snake through it an got 1/2” groups at 500 yards with 77gr” Do I win something if I can do that? 
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:23:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do I win something if I can do that? I'll send you a Walrus The Cat patch when it gets here. 
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:40:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Will be interesting to see what the problem was.
The guy was getting 1.36” groups with 69 gold medal out of the White Oak barrel and I’d bet a lot of money that combo is sub moa. The shooter likely could be the problem. But sometimes even the best manufacturers produce a lemon. I’ve had a Criterion and LaRue barrel that wouldn’t shoot anything halfway decent. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:46:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My gut tells me it will shoot a tad over 1” with 77gn. That’s with a decent scope mount of course and not a flexible flyer lever type. WHG I wanna put it on my service rifle lower after dropping the match springs in and shoot my frontier match ammo slow fire with my SLED. With front and rear bags I bet I can get five shots under 1". |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:47:47 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do I win something if I can do that? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In for “We tightened everything up, ran a bore snake through it an got 1/2” groups at 500 yards with 77gr” Do I win something if I can do that? Sure, I’ll getcha a brand spanking new Daniel Defense coffee mug. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:49:51 PM EDT
[#46]
Is there a link to the original thread about this?
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:50:07 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The guy was getting 1.36” groups with 69 gold medal out of the White Oak barrel and I’d bet a lot of money that combo is sub moa. The shooter likely could be the problem. My thoughts exactly. He also only shot a single 9-shot group for each barrel/ammo combo, so there's no way to know if his results were repeatable or not. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:54:33 PM EDT
[#48]
I'd like Bill to call me before I vote.
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Posted: 5/18/2022 10:01:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do I win something if I can do that? Ill send ya something if ya do. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 10:05:10 PM EDT
[#50]
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