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11/2/2022 4:30:06 PM
Posted: 11/25/2005 12:07:40 PM EST
> Rare Prototype Tupolev TU 70 and TU 75 pics
> and and info!
>
> I found this on the net while doing some other propliner
> information searching. The site is in Russian and in
> Cyrillic text, so unfortunately I can't read or understand
> the text, but there are some pictures that I've never
> seen, anywhere else on the net before, of the Soviet
> TU 70 and TU 75. For those who may not be aware,
> the TU 70 and TU 75 were proposed civilian
> passenger and cargo versions of the Soviet TU 4
> bomber. The TU 4 was of course, the Soviet built
> version of the Boeing B 29, secretly copied, 'reverse
> engineered', more correctly, from 3 interned U.S.
> B-29's that landed in Soviet territory in 1944-45. What
> is less known is that besides the TU-4, of which over a
> 1000 - were built, Tupolev also proposed both a civil
> passenger and a cargo version of the TU 4, - the TU 70
> and TU 75. The TU 70 and 75 variants were never
> taken up and put into production though. The pictures
> here are of the prototypes and the only ones ever built.
> I've found lots of text information on the net about the
> TU 70/75, but never any actual photographs before.
> Anyway, click on the links below and enjoy!
>

legion.wplus.net/guide/air/b/tu4.shtml

> P.S. If anybody here reads Russian and wants to translate
> some of the information from this site and post it here,
> I'd appreciate that very much.






brownells
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 12:21:06 PM EST
[#1]
What a shame they didn't save some of those,I'm sure some folks in Midland TX would love to get their hand on some more B-29 parts.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 12:30:51 PM EST
[#2]
R&D for the Boeing B-29 cost more than the Manhattan Project.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 12:38:23 PM EST
[#3]

Quoted:
R&D for the Boeing B-29 cost more than the Manhattan Project.

And they did a damned good job on both!!!!
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 12:50:25 PM EST
[#4]
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 1:09:42 PM EST
[#5]
translation:

In the autumn of 1942 the skilled copy of plane B-29 constructed at a factory of firm Boeing in Seattle, has made the first flight. And after two years pilots of the Air Forces the USA have begun on В-29, named Superfortress ("Superfortress"), massed strikes to Japan and territory of China occupied by Japanese. If the plane damaged(injured) means of air defence, his(its) crew was authorized to make landing(planting) in the nearest Soviet air station. However, by the international rules, in view of absence of war between the USSR and Japan, these planes and their crews were interned. In January, 1945 pilots have made "runaway", and at us on the Far East appeared three the whole and the newest on those times American bomber B-29.

 
Bomber B-29
Stalin knew about them, as well as that they are equipped with the newest equipment. Understood also that development of the domestic equipment for planes "64" A.N.Tupolev and ДВБ-302 V.M.Mjasishcheva and the scientific research institute various наркоматов will borrow(occupy) with tens ОКБ a lot of time which at the country is not present. And it(he) has accepted, probably, the correct decision is unique: the Soviet industry it was ordered in the shortest term to adjust release of copies of the American plane with all his(its) systems. To Tupolev Stalin in the chapter(head) of the grandiose project also has suggested to rise. The decision of the State Committee of Defense on construction of four-motor bomber Б-4 (fourth "Boeing") on June, 6, 1945 has taken place. The conducting(leading) designer on this machine have appointed D.S.Markova. On serial development it was given actually one and a half year.

The task for development Б-4 have included in the plan of skilled aircraft construction МАП for 1946, but only on February, 26 the same year the decision of the government have ratified his(its) basic characteristics: the normal take-off weight - 54500 kg, reloading - 61250 kg, speed at the ground - is not lower than 470 km/h, at height of 10500 m - 560 km/h. At normal flight weight and with bombing loading of 1500 kg range was required not below 5000 km, about 5000 kg of bombs and take-off weight of 61250 kg - 6000 km, about 8000 kg of bombs - 4900 km (last requirement in June of 1946 has been changed: about 7120 kg of bombs - 3000 km). It was aboard the plane supposed to establish engines ASH-73TK with приводным a centrifugal supercharger and турбокомпрессорами. Factory and state tests of engines have planned for October of 1946 and August of 1947 accordingly.

   
Disassembly B-29
All "Boeing" have overtaken from the Far East. One of them remained in inviolability and was used as the standard, the second was applied to test flights, and the third has been completely disassembled on 105000 details - for release of drawings. Each separate unit was processed with the brigade of designers and technologists. The unit or a detail weighed, measured, photographed and described. Any detail was exposed to the spectral analysis for definition of a material. However precisely to repeat B-29 it was impossible.

So, at Americans thickness of a sheet of a covering was equaled 1/16 inches. To roll such sheets any factory did not undertake. It was necessary to go on компромис. In result sheets of a fuselage had thickness from 0,8 up to 1,8 mm depending on requirements of durability. The similar collision has arisen with wires. When have transferred(translated) section removed(taken off) with B-29 wires in the metrics, the ridiculous scale has turned out: 0,88; 1,93; 3,05; 5,15; 8,8; 13,0; 21,0; 41,0 мм2. Attempt to use the nearest our sections has failed. If approximated in "plus", the weight of the electric system grew by 8-10 %. If in "minus" - were not stacked in norms of a power failure. Having lost it is a lot of time for disputes, кабельщики nevertheless have copied the American sections of wires.

   
etc...

Link Posted: 11/25/2005 1:10:47 PM EST
[#6]
You know,it's amazing that we got as many crews for those B-17s/24s/29s,as we did! Those radial engines were very tempermental(esp.the 29s),as I heard someone say(Len Morgan??) you flew the engines,not the aircraft!(BTW,my ol man flew as a copilot for Delta,flying DC-7/7Bs,it would run out of oil long before fuel,those Turbo Compounds really easy to overheat).Love those big radials!
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 1:45:29 PM EST
[#7]
Tag 'cause all military aircraft threads are worth reading.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 2:40:16 PM EST
[#8]
What happened to crews of the B-29's forced to land in Russia?  Were they considered POW's, were they treated reasonably well, were they returned quickly or what?

Thanks,

Merlin
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 2:50:23 PM EST
[#9]
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 2:53:31 PM EST
[#10]

Quoted:
Interesting story about the Russian copy of the B-29, the TU-4.

One of the B-29's that forced landed in Russia in 1945 was used as a 'clone' to be copied. The Russians dismantled it down to the last rivet. One of the wing skin panels had a hole in it that did not seem to be serving any purpose. So the Russians set up a committee to study the 'hole'.

After weeks of debating and technical examinations they came to the conclusion that although they could not find a purpose for the hole, the Americans had obviously put it there for a reason. And so every TU-4 was built with this 'hole'.

And the secret of the hole?  A machinist had drilled a hole in the wrong place on the line in Kansas building that one bomber.

ANdy




I heard they even copied the "Boeing" off the foot pedals as well.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 8:45:34 PM EST
[#11]
My namesake engineered the pressurized access tube that ran from the cockpit back to the tail.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 3:13:54 AM EST
[#12]
All your Boeing are belong to us...
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 3:26:36 AM EST
[#13]
And people thought/think Joe McCarthy was an idiot.

The Russians never could or would design anything better than what we had without stolen technology. If we could have kept better care of our secrets we would have nothing to fear from the Russkies.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 3:45:22 AM EST
[#14]
I read a story from I think one of the guys that flies FIFI for the CAF (What's it called now?) who met some russian guys at Oshkosh, and it came out that one of the Russians had a lot of time as a test-pilot on the russian B-29! I think they actually flew FIFI with the russian guy on board, giving him a ride.

I also read the story about the "hole"!

Air and Space magazine had a great article about this plane a while back
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 4:01:54 AM EST
[#15]
There was a show on the History Channel a few years ago about the Ruskies copying the B29.  There is one Russian built B29 left at a museum in Moscow.  Looks just like a Boeing built one.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:40:49 AM EST
[#16]

Quoted:
There was a show on the History Channel a few years ago about the Ruskies copying the B29.  There is one Russian built B29 left at a museum in Moscow.  Looks just like a Boeing built one.

What a damned shame! Guess they feel about history about as much as we do! I think the Chinese have a few too!
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:45:37 AM EST
[#17]

Quoted:
And people thought/think Joe McCarthy was an idiot.

The Russians never could or would design anything better than what we had without stolen technology. If we could have kept better care of our secrets we would have nothing to fear from the Russkies.



The Brits gave them a Rolls Royce engine that they copied and used in the Mig-15.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:48:56 AM EST
[#18]
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 5:57:17 PM EST
[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
And people thought/think Joe McCarthy was an idiot.

The Russians never could or would design anything better than what we had without stolen technology. If we could have kept better care of our secrets we would have nothing to fear from the Russkies.



The Brits gave them a Rolls Royce engine that they copied and used in the Mig-15.



We gave the same engine to you guys, but agreed, it was a dumb move by the Attlee .Gov to give thenm ti the Russians.

Andy



Just so you know, I wasn't finger pointing, just stating an historical fact.  I know you gave us the same engine, but we didn't use it to build planes to shoot at you.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 12:45:20 PM EST
[#20]
When the Russkies copied the -29, as mentioned already, they copied everything EXACTLY as it was on the original.  That was per Stalin's direct order.  The engines were the earlier engines and they had some problems.  The Soviet engineers discovered this, but they copied them regardless because they didn't want to disobey Stalins order.  If I recall correctly, they initially had problems with the aircraft skin and the conversion from English to Metric units of measure.  They eventually figured it out but I don't remember the solution.  All this was on either a History Channel or Discovery program last year, I believe.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 8:54:29 PM EST
[#21]
The Chinese even had a few too.  Saw a picture in a Japanese aircraft mag (about 15 years ago) showing a Chinese B29 copy configured as an AWACS, complete with flying saucer radome.  It was a museum piece in the pic.
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