Posted: 8/6/2017 1:28:50 PM EDT
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We are in the market for a pre-owned certified AWD. 2014-ish.
Make and model are not carved in stone. That said, Subaru AWD (Forrester, Outback) seem to have a good rep. A vehicle mechanic buddy says that Subaru sensors and trannies are expensive when I asked about Subaru AWD pros and cons, but I suppose that could be said for any car. He didn't have time to chat about it a length, just a quick text when I asked his opinion about Subaras yesterday. What advice/input do you have? Alternative make and model to meet our needs? |
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Random review from google:
"I have a 2010 Subaru Forester with no problems and the older engine. As you know, they switched to a newer engine in 2011 models, which have a piston oil control ring that wears prematurely and there have been a successful lawsuit which extends the engine warranty to 100K and 8 years with the stipulation that you have a Subaru dealer oil consumption test. I bought a 2013 Forester and the oil pressure light started coming on around 45k. I replaced the sensor 2 times based on Subaru's recommendations because they pretended they didn't have a clue." What other recalls/technical bulletins/lawsuits are there on newer Subarus? Newer being 2013-2015-ish. |
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Take a look at the Nissan Rogue.
My wife and I bought one last year (2016 model). They were offering 0% through Nissan Credit (up to 72 months) and the vehicle wasn't overly pricey to begin with. I think the sticker was 25k and we got it for 21.5 with the zero percent. Not optioned out but enough for my wife. Its AWD and she averages 27-28 around town and routinely does 32-33 hwy. It has a CVT transmission that I don't mind at all compared to the others we drove. Its a nice inexpensive ride. As far as long term reliability I don't know but I like it thus far. What ever you do drive a few different makes. It goes well in the snow and has a good hill descent feature that is great on our usually unplowed hill to the main road. I'm 6'7" and can drive it well enough. The passenger side is very roomy and you sit at a decent height as well. |
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As a longtime (20 years) Subie owner and driver, they're great cars and (can be) very dependable.
As the mileage gets up there, though, do NOT skimp on scheduled maintenance like oil changes, tire rotations, flushes and subsystem inspections. Subaru engines have very tight tolerances and can destroy themselves on you if you don't keep up on the maintenance rigorously. |
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Yes. Or have a new one shaved to match the other 3. |
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Take a look at the Nissan Rogue. My wife and I bought one last year (2016 model). They were offering 0% through Nissan Credit (up to 72 months) and the vehicle wasn't overly pricey to begin with. I think the sticker was 25k and we got it for 21.5 with the zero percent. Not optioned out but enough for my wife. Its AWD and she averages 27-28 around town and routinely does 32-33 hwy. It has a CVT transmission that I don't mind at all compared to the others we drove. Its a nice inexpensive ride. As far as long term reliability I don't know but I like it thus far. What ever you do drive a few different makes. It goes well in the snow and has a good hill descent feature that is great on our usually unplowed hill to the main road. I'm 6'7" and can drive it well enough. The passenger side is very roomy and you sit at a decent height as well. Wheelbase, HP, curb weight, mileage etc. are all close to an Outback. |
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As a longtime (20 years) Subie owner and driver, they're great cars and (can be) very dependable. As the mileage gets up there, though, do NOT skimp on scheduled maintenance like oil changes, tire rotations, flushes and subsystem inspections. Subaru engines have very tight tolerances and can destroy themselves on you if you don't keep up on the maintenance rigorously. Subarus used to have rubber timing belts, and since the engine is an interference type, it is absolutely essential to change the timing belt before it becomes questionable. In my many trips to the junkyard, Almost every Subie there was because of blown engine, and that was almost certainly because of failure to replace the timing belt.  Hondas are crashed more often, it seems, but their engine design used to include interference engines with timing belts, and there are quite a few also junked for blown engines.   |
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As to OP, I think that I would try to find a six-cylinder Subaru. Slightly more HP and considerably more torque than the turbo models, with less initial cost, and less maintenance costs.Â
Usually available on the upscale models only. I strongly suggest the sixes. |
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In my experience, most modern Subarus have the wiring harness already installed that is designed to accept a ton of plug-and-play Dealer-installed accessories. Sometimes you can get such accessories from a junkyard for dirt cheap. I've saved a ton of money upgrading my Forester with junkyard accessories. For example, free key fobs (just re-program them), $5 Dollar auto-dimming rearview mirrors with compass and HomeLink, and some other things. From Dealer, key fobs are at least $50, and the autodimming rearview mirror is way over $200. If you do your homework, such as looking at parts numbers for particular accessories, some Sub accessories for multiple models and multiple years. You will need to find a local junkyard that will at least let you walk around their yard and inspect vehicles. Better yet, find a junkyard that will let you remove stuff. For the owner of most any car, this is something of great value.
OTOH, there are places like SubaruOnLineParts that will sell Dealer-installed OEM Subaru accessories at considerable discount--they even have sales. Most of these items are pretty simple to install, even for the DIY type, and almost all come with full instructions. I've bought a few items there. The sub-woofer kit for my Foz added a whole new dimension to the sound, and along with the replacement radio, and Tweeters snagged from a junkyard donor, transformed the sonic experience. The sub-woofer was plug and play, and the instructions were good enough for a total install time of 1/2 hour. Install the second one on a friend's Foz took me 15 minutes. There are many Subaru-oriented web sites. I suggest looking around for one that focuses on six-cylinder Subarus. In the meantime, subaruforester.org will be a place to start. |
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As to OP, I think that I would try to find a six-cylinder Subaru. Slightly more HP and considerably more torque than the turbo models, with less initial cost, and less maintenance costs. Usually available on the upscale models only. I strongly suggest the sixes. |
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Why is the maintenance less? Isn't the mileage quite a bit worse on the 6 cylinder cars? Quoted:
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As to OP, I think that I would try to find a six-cylinder Subaru. Slightly more HP and considerably more torque than the turbo models, with less initial cost, and less maintenance costs. Usually available on the upscale models only. I strongly suggest the sixes. As regards maintenance, with the six-banger, as compared to the turbo 4-cyl, there are fewer components, less plumbing, fewer sensors (and wiring), and so forth. It's a vastly simpler system. The less there is, the less there is to break down. Most folks don't know that the Subaru turbos have replaceable banjo-type oil fittings. These fittings have super-fine filtering screens within them. Assuming syn oil used in turbos, then these super fine banjo fittings need to be replaced at each and every oil change. Dino oil, every other oil change, since oil change is sooner.  The fittings are NOT expensive, but since most owners don't know that they are even there, and since some dealerships cut corners, they don't get replaced on a regular basis, and turbo failure occurs. If you're lucky he turbo failure will not damage the rest of your engine. Long story short, and not to pick on Subaru tubos, because there are many worse, the old saying that "There is no replacement for displacement" is still true.   I have said, for a long time in turbo-related threads, then when turbo engines are available with thermostatically-controlled oil coolers (directly connected to forced turbo oil feed), AND forced water cooling for turbo housing, then I will consider buying them. Until then, I'll pass, as they are not done right, in my opinion. They run too hot, and for no good reason except that many manufacturers think it easier, and cheaper to make turbo engines on the cheap, instead of doing it right. As a former Pro mechanic, I've replaced a few failed turbos, many makes,  and also told the owners of turbo engines, again many makes,  that their turbo had grenaded, and ruined their engine. YMMV. |
I am a big fan of Subaru cars. Back in Alaska I was constantly amazed at how well they handled adverse weather. I still laugh that i didn't buy one until I moved down to the desert I have a 2012 Impreza 2.5. It is gutless and lucky me has some kind of weird stutter or hesitation that I will eventually figure out or it will drive me crazy. Really wanted a outback and just couldn't find one that fit into my requirements at the time so I settled with the impreza. Probably going to upgrade to a suv within a couple years or maybe a outback if one ever surfaces at the right time.
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The fuel mileage is a bit less on the six-bangers, but not as much as one might think. I believe the final drive ratios are higher for the sixers, as compared to the Turbos, which are geared lower for low-end power and acceleration. It is not unusual nowadays to see six cyl engines outperforming fours with respect to highway fuel mileage. It's all about how the final drive is geared. with six-cyl engines, they have enough torque to be geared lower (better fuel mileage) while the engnes still have enough torque to get up and go. It's all trade-offs. As regards maintenance, with the six-banger, as compared to the turbo 4-cyl, there are fewer components, less plumbing, fewer sensors (and wiring), and so forth. It's a vastly simpler system. The less there is, the less there is to break down. Most folks don't know that the Subaru turbos have replaceable banjo-type oil fittings. These fittings have super-fine filtering screens within them. Assuming syn oil used in turbos, then these super fine banjo fittings need to be replaced at each and every oil change. Dino oil, every other oil change, since oil change is sooner.  The fittings are NOT expensive, but since most owners don't know that they are even there, and since some dealerships cut corners, they don't get replaced on a regular basis, and turbo failure occurs. If you're lucky he turbo failure will not damage the rest of your engine. Long story short, and not to pick on Subaru tubos, because there are many worse, the old saying that "There is no substitute for displacement" is still true.   Quoted:
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As to OP, I think that I would try to find a six-cylinder Subaru. Slightly more HP and considerably more torque than the turbo models, with less initial cost, and less maintenance costs. Usually available on the upscale models only. I strongly suggest the sixes. As regards maintenance, with the six-banger, as compared to the turbo 4-cyl, there are fewer components, less plumbing, fewer sensors (and wiring), and so forth. It's a vastly simpler system. The less there is, the less there is to break down. Most folks don't know that the Subaru turbos have replaceable banjo-type oil fittings. These fittings have super-fine filtering screens within them. Assuming syn oil used in turbos, then these super fine banjo fittings need to be replaced at each and every oil change. Dino oil, every other oil change, since oil change is sooner.  The fittings are NOT expensive, but since most owners don't know that they are even there, and since some dealerships cut corners, they don't get replaced on a regular basis, and turbo failure occurs. If you're lucky he turbo failure will not damage the rest of your engine. Long story short, and not to pick on Subaru tubos, because there are many worse, the old saying that "There is no substitute for displacement" is still true.   I'm tired
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I am a big fan of Subaru cars. Back in Alaska I was constantly amazed at how well they handled adverse weather. I still laugh that i didn't buy one until I moved down to the desert I have a 2012 Impreza 2.5. It is gutless and lucky me has some kind of weird stutter or hesitation that I will eventually figure out or it will drive me crazy. Really wanted a outback and just couldn't find one that fit into my requirements at the time so I settled with the impreza. Probably going to upgrade to a suv within a couple years or maybe a outback if one ever surfaces at the right time.
I totally missed your reference to the turbo models in your original post. That's why I was so confused as to your statement and reply about there being less components. I'm tired Quoted:
I am a big fan of Subaru cars. Back in Alaska I was constantly amazed at how well they handled adverse weather. I still laugh that i didn't buy one until I moved down to the desert I have a 2012 Impreza 2.5. It is gutless and lucky me has some kind of weird stutter or hesitation that I will eventually figure out or it will drive me crazy. Really wanted a outback and just couldn't find one that fit into my requirements at the time so I settled with the impreza. Probably going to upgrade to a suv within a couple years or maybe a outback if one ever surfaces at the right time.
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As to OP, I think that I would try to find a six-cylinder Subaru. Slightly more HP and considerably more torque than the turbo models, with less initial cost, and less maintenance costs. Usually available on the upscale models only. I strongly suggest the sixes. As regards maintenance, with the six-banger, as compared to the turbo 4-cyl, there are fewer components, less plumbing, fewer sensors (and wiring), and so forth. It's a vastly simpler system. The less there is, the less there is to break down. Most folks don't know that the Subaru turbos have replaceable banjo-type oil fittings. These fittings have super-fine filtering screens within them. Assuming syn oil used in turbos, then these super fine banjo fittings need to be replaced at each and every oil change. Dino oil, every other oil change, since oil change is sooner.  The fittings are NOT expensive, but since most owners don't know that they are even there, and since some dealerships cut corners, they don't get replaced on a regular basis, and turbo failure occurs. If you're lucky he turbo failure will not damage the rest of your engine. Long story short, and not to pick on Subaru tubos, because there are many worse, the old saying that "There is no substitute for displacement" is still true.   I'm tired |
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OP, why 2014? What are you looking to spend? You can get a new mid optioned out WRX for like 26 or a fully loaded Legacy for 31. Subie's don't really make sense to buy used as they are so cheap new if you know what you are doing. |
| I own a 2014 forester turbo, it is fun, VERY fun when I decide to drive it sporty and there arnt DI**heads infront of me. going from 40-80 is all pull. That said the H6 outback would be better, mileage is almost the same, I could pull more(forester is limited to 1500, outback is 3k), and in town no turbo lags. |
| I had an 06 Outback that I sold when our daughter gave us her 07. They bought a Mazda and the dealer wouldn't give shit for trade. The 06 needed tires, had some minor body damage and one head gasket was leaking oil for the 65k miles I owned it. I think I sold the wrong one. Â This one has a drive train vibration I can't isolate and is rusting like an AMC era Jeep. Both had Airbag Warning lights intermittent come on which I found was broken solder joints on the overhead annunciator light board, who thinks that an important life saving system should be disabled because an LED doesn't illuminate? Â Subaru does. My daughter had hers repaired at the dealership for $300, I resoldered mine. The interior plastic parts are fragile, Â do you have kids? Rockauto.com has reasonable prices on brake pads, I keep a spare set on hand. They use oil, so if you have to have one, be sure to check your oil. Â In fact watch all the fluids, Â one mechanic told me "it's a Subaru, it's going to leak something". |
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None of my subies have ever leaked. We're pretty snowy up here, but use mostly sand, not salt, and there's very little moisture the rest of the year, so rust is hardly ever an issue.
I'm currently in a 12 Impreza 2.0, and get 30-32mpg in regular mixed driving, 38mpg in sustained highway cruising. |
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OP, why 2014? What are you looking to spend? You can get a new mid optioned out WRX for like 26 or a fully loaded Legacy for 31. Subie's don't really make sense to buy used as they are so cheap new if you know what you are doing. |
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you mentioned 2014 outbacks. the 2013 - 2014 had a bad bunch of rings on some runs of four-cylinder engines. google is your friend. have a 2013 outback. wife drives it and has been no problem w/80K miles. Does your wife's have the extended warranty the Forrester owner mentions due to faulty rings? |
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Anything newer than 2011 should be pretty sweet. The newer it is the better the gas mileage. My wife has a 2014 Outback and I have a 2016 Forester. Both are superb. We live in the country so the AWD and storage space is good, but the premium Eyesight feature is my favorite thing, it is incredible and makes the long drive to work low stress (the car basically drives itself). We both get about 28mpg, which is fantastic for a CUV, even more fantastic for AWD. Zero problems with our Subies so far.
It is not as luxurious or fast as my Acura RL was, but I am very happy with the Forester. If you're into luxury and a smooth ride then go with the Outback. If you want to sit higher like a Jeep, get the Forester. Bottom line, Forester costs less and has less finess to it. Both are kinda plasticky inside, and won't win any awards for looking sexy on the outside, but they are practical as hell. |
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Pre-2010 models had infirior head gasket material and will likely have to be addressed at some point unless they have never seen extreme heat.
Subaru switched to different gasket materials for 2011+ and this problem has gone away. Factory trailer hitch is not rate for over 2500 lbs, so, its not a full size truck for hauling. You can fit 6 full length shotguns in plano cases across the back. Yes, I have done this. 
Goofy exhaust shield if a disaster and needs to be removed. I re-wrapped mine with exhaust matting and secured it with hose clamps around the cat. Turbo 2.5L is much nicer than the 3.0L, IMHO. Just use mobil1 full synthetic and never look back. I use the Mobil 1 M110 filter (taller, easier to get my meat hooks around) than the tiny factory filter. Hope this helps. Yes, AWD on the scooby doos require all 4 tires to get changed else you are shaving tread. |
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Turbo 2.5L is much nicer than the 3.0L, IMHO. Just use mobil1 full synthetic and never look back. Actually, I can only really think of two oils being brought up by name with any regularity - T6 in a positive light, and M1 in a negative one. Probably a bunch of people running others with no issues - after all, the best advice is to pick a quality oil with a PROPER filter (many A/M do not have the right specs for EJ25-s) and get an analysis from Blackstone or similar to validate the OCI. |
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I had an 06 Outback that I sold when our daughter gave us her 07. They bought a Mazda and the dealer wouldn't give shit for trade. The 06 needed tires, had some minor body damage and one head gasket was leaking oil for the 65k miles I owned it. I think I sold the wrong one. Â This one has a drive train vibration I can't isolate and is rusting like an AMC era Jeep. Both had Airbag Warning lights intermittent come on which I found was broken solder joints on the overhead annunciator light board, who thinks that an important life saving system should be disabled because an LED doesn't illuminate? Â Subaru does. My daughter had hers repaired at the dealership for $300, I resoldered mine. The interior plastic parts are fragile, Â do you have kids? Rockauto.com has reasonable prices on brake pads, I keep a spare set on hand. They use oil, so if you have to have one, be sure to check your oil. Â In fact watch all the fluids, Â one mechanic told me "it's a Subaru, it's going to leak something". |
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A 3-4 YO vehicle meets my budget constraints. |
. Fucking dumped that thing.
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What is your budget? 20? 15? Reason I ask is the used car market is total shit right now meaning say you spend 15-20 on a 2014 with 50k mile or can get a 2017 off the lot new for 25, you should take the new one for a multitude of reasons financial and mechanical. That makes sense. I haven't been to any dealers yet to talk new car prices. (or used) |
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The fuel mileage is a bit less on the six-bangers, but not as much as one might think. I believe the final drive ratios are higher for the sixers, as compared to the Turbos, which are geared lower for low-end power and acceleration. It is not unusual nowadays to see six cyl engines outperforming fours with respect to highway fuel mileage. It's all about how the final drive is geared. with six-cyl engines, they have enough torque to be geared lower (better fuel mileage) while the engnes still have enough torque to get up and go. It's all trade-offs. As regards maintenance, with the six-banger, as compared to the turbo 4-cyl, there are fewer components, less plumbing, fewer sensors (and wiring), and so forth. It's a vastly simpler system. The less there is, the less there is to break down. Most folks don't know that the Subaru turbos have replaceable banjo-type oil fittings. These fittings have super-fine filtering screens within them. Assuming syn oil used in turbos, then these super fine banjo fittings need to be replaced at each and every oil change. Dino oil, every other oil change, since oil change is sooner.  The fittings are NOT expensive, but since most owners don't know that they are even there, and since some dealerships cut corners, they don't get replaced on a regular basis, and turbo failure occurs. If you're lucky he turbo failure will not damage the rest of your engine. Long story short, and not to pick on Subaru tubos, because there are many worse, the old saying that "There is no replacement for displacement" is still true.   I have said, for a long time in turbo-related threads, then when turbo engines are available with thermostatically-controlled oil coolers (directly connected to forced turbo oil feed), AND forced water cooling for turbo housing, then I will consider buying them. Until then, I'll pass, as they are not done right, in my opinion. They run too hot, and for no good reason except that many manufacturers think it easier, and cheaper to make turbo engines on the cheap, instead of doing it right. As a former Pro mechanic, I've replaced a few failed turbos, many makes,  and also told the owners of turbo engines, again many makes,  that their turbo had grenaded, and ruined their engine. YMMV. Quoted:
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As to OP, I think that I would try to find a six-cylinder Subaru. Slightly more HP and considerably more torque than the turbo models, with less initial cost, and less maintenance costs. Usually available on the upscale models only. I strongly suggest the sixes. As regards maintenance, with the six-banger, as compared to the turbo 4-cyl, there are fewer components, less plumbing, fewer sensors (and wiring), and so forth. It's a vastly simpler system. The less there is, the less there is to break down. Most folks don't know that the Subaru turbos have replaceable banjo-type oil fittings. These fittings have super-fine filtering screens within them. Assuming syn oil used in turbos, then these super fine banjo fittings need to be replaced at each and every oil change. Dino oil, every other oil change, since oil change is sooner.  The fittings are NOT expensive, but since most owners don't know that they are even there, and since some dealerships cut corners, they don't get replaced on a regular basis, and turbo failure occurs. If you're lucky he turbo failure will not damage the rest of your engine. Long story short, and not to pick on Subaru tubos, because there are many worse, the old saying that "There is no replacement for displacement" is still true.   I have said, for a long time in turbo-related threads, then when turbo engines are available with thermostatically-controlled oil coolers (directly connected to forced turbo oil feed), AND forced water cooling for turbo housing, then I will consider buying them. Until then, I'll pass, as they are not done right, in my opinion. They run too hot, and for no good reason except that many manufacturers think it easier, and cheaper to make turbo engines on the cheap, instead of doing it right. As a former Pro mechanic, I've replaced a few failed turbos, many makes,  and also told the owners of turbo engines, again many makes,  that their turbo had grenaded, and ruined their engine. YMMV. For the op- I have a 2005 Forester XT. I purchased it with 194xxx on it and rebuilt the engine due to either the rod bearings taking out the turbo or the turbo bearings taking out the rod bearings. It may have been both honestly. I now have 28xxx on the engine and 222xxx on the chassis. Stock trans, diffs, everything else but the clutch and I love it. It doesn't use or burn any oil or coolant and I change the oil between 3000-5000 ish miles. I'd buy any one them in a heartbeat, just maintain it. |
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See my 4th post above in the thread. Does your wife's have the extended warranty the Forrester owner mentions due to faulty rings? Quoted:
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you mentioned 2014 outbacks. the 2013 - 2014 had a bad bunch of rings on some runs of four-cylinder engines. google is your friend. have a 2013 outback. wife drives it and has been no problem w/80K miles. Does your wife's have the extended warranty the Forrester owner mentions due to faulty rings? Totally missed your 4th. We had the oil leak down performed via dealership (out of pocket) at 35K miles. No problem. It's a company car so we got the extended warranty anyway. Peace of mind. Just this past week, got notice the CVT warranty was extended. FWIW. |
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I've had 3 subarus
A 96 outback v6. Thing ran perfect and traded in with 260k for a 2001 outback with a 2.5 that now has 253k on it. I just bought a 2017 sti and pretty much change oil on it with t6. On the 2001 I had to replace oilpan gasket timing belt(water pump)and the cat/o2 sensors with spark plugs and fuel filter then transmission fluid and filters. The 96 I only replaced spark plugs. On the sti I have 12k on it with no problems so far. |
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I have a 2010 Forester with 101k miles on it. I purchased it used 4 years ago with 34k on it. I have been nothing but pleased with its reliability and performance. I am looking at new vehicles now and am considering a 2016 outback.
Attached File |
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I'll just add that I owned 2 different brand new Subarus, 05 Impreza 2.5l and 2013 WRX, each for 3yr then traded them in since they lost so little value I was able to step into new cars for ridiculously cheap. I actually planned on buying a used WRX but the $3k savings didn't make sense. Really enjoyed both of those cars, so much so that I convinced my friend to buy a 15 Outback which he really likes so far as well.
If you have to have AWD, I don't think you can beat them for reliability, quality, and value. |
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Update:
I couldn't justify an AWD for the day or 3 of snow each winter that traps us in our driveway. So, I went shopping for a used 4 door sedan. With year end close out factory incentives, it ended up making sense to buy new. I bought a mid-optioned 2017 Camry SE. For about $2500-$3000 more than the 2-3 YO used cars I looked at, I have full warranty and 2 years free scheduled maintenance. And it's new!
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Update: I couldn't justify an AWD for the day or 3 of snow each winter that traps us in our driveway. So, I went shopping for a used 4 door sedan. With year end close out factory incentives, it ended up making sense to buy new. I bought a mid-optioned 2017 Camry SE. For about $2500-$3000 more than the 2-3 YO used cars I looked at, I have full warranty and 2 years free scheduled maintenance. And it's new! |
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Nice work OP, especially in WA used car prices on anything newer than 4 years is rediculously high. The dealers don't want to budge much on their used car prices either, even with 40-50% down. |