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Posted: 11/19/2008 6:38:11 AM EDT


I am thinking of getting some steel targets. In my CCW class a while back the instructor had four steel sillhouette targets that were slightly smaller then IPSC/IDPA regulation size sillhouettes...they were a blast to shoot and a really good training tool. I really like the immediate feedback you get with the steel targets.


Anyway, where would be a good place to order some of these and get them here by Christmas? I think the ones in the class were made by a company that started with a z? I think she said that she got 4 for either $300 or $600 dollars and ordered them online. I'd like to get some that are rated for.223, even though I'll probably mostly shoot them with 9mm.

What would you guys recommend?




Also, how close can you get to these things and shoot at them safely?

In the class, they were using some kind of spray paint. This way you can see where your rounds are hitting, and then repaint the target when you are ready.



Any help appreciated guys....
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 6:39:19 AM EDT
I've heard good things about these guys:

http://actiontarget.com/index_spt.html
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 6:44:39 AM EDT
Action Target are kickass and their prices are reasonable. If you're going to shoot with rifle, step up to AR550 - not much higher than AR500 in cost.

MGM targets suck, IMHO. They don't harden the edges of the target, so if a stray round hits the edge, you'll have a nice divot.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 7:08:04 AM EDT
T-1 steel is the minimum for handgun and it will pock mark depending on the velocity.
But it will last a long, long time without much downside.
My 38 super racegun and smg at higher velocities of approaching 1400 fps will dimple plates.
T-1 will not do well with rifle velocities ie, they will punch right through it.
Make sure the plate is bolted to the stand not welded. Welding will ruin the steel hardness. If someone tries to sell you a rated steel plate etc. that is welded to a stand it is no longer the same rated steel.

Armor plate is what you want for rifle. I've got a sillowette made by DS Welding
and custom plates that are T-1 for pistol.

The mimimum distance to the steel should be ten yards and always wear good eye protection. any jagged edge can increase the probability of splatter but in any case if you shoot enough you will probabally get hit from it. I've got it in the face, arms, and had to dig a piece out of my armpit.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 7:21:07 AM EDT
Safe distance fro pistol: rule is: 11 yards minimum.

Look at the links section of this site for approved manufacturers:

www.uspsa.com
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 7:30:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JGTmaverick:
The mimimum distance to the steel should be ten yards and always wear good eye protection. any jagged edge can increase the probability of splatter but in any case if you shoot enough you will probabally get hit from it. I've got it in the face, arms, and had to dig a piece out of my armpit.


You're lucky that's all you had to do.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 7:36:27 AM EDT
Salute or MGM would be a good start.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 8:34:51 AM EDT
Interesting
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 8:48:20 AM EDT
Thanks for all of the info guys...I'm still doing research.


I got this off of Salute's website and thought I would share for anyone interested. Answers some of the safety related questions I had. Agrees with what you guys have posted so far. Good stuff.














Shooting Safely
How Salute Targets Work
SALUTE products offer a variety of targets that fit interchangeable on the base. This base not only holds up the target, but it has been specifically designed to position the targets at slightly less than a 90-degree angle. This helps deflect the bullet fragments downward. The innovative Glacis Trap deflects the bullet downward after impact. Next, the Splatter Platter traps these fragments, keeping the shooter in a safer environment.

Additional Required Safety Measures
Always wear ANSI approved safety glasses with side shields to protect your eyes.
Always wear shooting rated hearing protection to protect your hearing.
Always wear a baseball style hat with the brim down snugly against the top of your shooting glasses. This protects the forehead and top of head from lead and jacket particles and from hot ejected brass cartridge cases.
Strongly recommend long sleeve shirts and long pants for all shooters and personnel on the range where steel targets are being used to reduce potential injury from lead and jacket particles.
Bullets create a splash cone of lead and jacketed particles after hitting steel targets that can travel greater than 20 yards for handguns and greater than 75 yards for rifles. This splash zone can reach up to a 25-degree cone angel in a 360-degree direction from the surface of the impacted steel target. Use of frangible ammunition when shooting steel targets is highly recommended. Frangible ammunition will reduce potential injury causing particles substantially.
Use only high quality duty/service ammunition when shooting steel targets. If using non-frangible ammunition use handgun ammunition with a maximum velocity of 1500 feet per second. Rifle ammunition muzzle velocity should not exceed 3,200 feet per second. Never shoot Armor Piercing (AP), steel core or hardened type ammunition at any steel plate!
No Shotgun slugs! Shotgun lead birdshot and buckshot ammunition can be shot at the steel targets.
Recommended minimum distances from steel targets to shooter are 10 yards for pistols and 75 yards for rifles. Spectators should stand 10 yards behind the shooter.
Use only properly constructed firing range with adequate backstop height (recommend 25 feet) and adequate down range safety area of 500 yards or more. Locate the steel targets as close to the backstop as possible to help reduce the down range ricochet effect and distance.
Discontinue the use of any close range (less than 75 yards) steel target that has surface craters caused by wear or improper ammunition use on the steel target impact area. The steel target impact surface must be smooth and flat to safely use steel targets less than 75 yards.
Never shoot hardened, steel core or Armor Piercing (AP) ammunition at any steel target! Never shoot any type of shotgun slug at any steel target! Serious personal injury up to and including death can result.

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:01:35 PM EDT
arntzen targets are good. I use them.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:10:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mcooper:
arntzen targets are good. I use them.


I was just about to post about them!!!

The 2/3 IPSC AR500 are the ones my CCW instructor had. I recognized them right away when I stumbled upon their site!



http://www.arntzentargets.com/index.htm




Sweet! These are CONSIDERABLY lower price then all of the comparable ones I have seen!

I think I am going to get 4 of the 2/3 IPSC AR500 plates, 3 full-size stands, and one short stand.



What spray paint would you guys recommend to make the targets stand out and so you can see where you were hitting? In my class you could see where the rounds hit and then they would spray paint over it again. I don't want anything toxic or anything (don't laugh I'm dumb about paint).






Why do people use the short stands? Is that so you can have targets at varying heights? I'm debating ordering 3 full size and one short stand.


Also, if you had to choose between full size IPSC T1 versus 2/3 size IPSC AR500, what do you think? I'm leaning toward the 2/3 ones. Then I can shoot them with rifle AND if I shoot those with pistol I will only be more accurate when I shoot at standard IPSC size targets.






For those of you guys who haven't shot at steel, you have no idea what you are missing. It is GREAT for training. The immediate feedback you get is really awesome, especially if you are using paint on the targets.



PHOOEEY with paper and staple guns!!!!
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:11:47 PM EDT
tag for later
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:14:57 PM EDT
im inbound
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:19:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 12:29:51 PM EDT by Lexington]
Originally Posted By mcooper:
arntzen targets are good. I use them.



I bought the AR500 15" circle from them. I love it. And it's bullet proof, both literally and figuratively.

I paint mine either bright orange or plain white.

I shoot rifles at 200 yards.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:24:16 PM EDT
i recomend 2/3 targetss makes you make you groups smaller and also makes it eisier to transport and store.
regular crapy white paint is fine i get it from lowes fore .96 a can.

artzonse steel is good, it actully is ar 500, i use their ar 500 in my rifle targets. but their stands, i dont like them, they like to pinch you at set up and transport. if you have a welder handy i will send you plans to build better ones that are a lot cheaper. mine also hold up to lots of low shots.
not tying to toot mu own horn but i own 16,000 pounds of reactive targets that i rent out to local ranges and police i found out whose targets work and whose are just full of holes.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:25:34 PM EDT
EV,

For paint just grab whatever rattle can elcheapo paint is on sale next time you are at the Hardware, Lowes etc.

Don't sweat the toxic aspects unless you plan of huffing the stuff.

Steel is a blast to shoot at night, give it a run when your targets arrive.

Just nagging a bit, but realize you WILL be hit with back splatter sooner or later.
It happens, it feels like getting hit by a Daisy Red Rider.
Wear the Eye protection, and insist anyone near you is wearing Eyepro.

Have fun!
S-28

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:28:04 PM EDT
I think I asked this a few years ago, but I done forget, so...


1) What is the closest you can safely shoot 'normal' pistol caliber FMJs at steel targets? (9mm, .40, .45, etc.)

2) What is the closest you can safely shoot modest 5.56 (like Wolf or Barnaul) at steel targets?


I know there will always be a bit of ricochet and spalling and whatnot, but ballpark figures would be helpful.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:40:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 12:45:28 PM EDT by bullet-camp-targets]
short stands are for vering the height of the targets so that you don’t get used to always having your gun at the same height and spraying and praying. it also helps when to keep the targets low for shorter burms that some clubs have.

rule of thumb is not to shoot any pistol closer then 21 feet, and rifle any closer than 100 yards.


things to stay away from:

no slugs they will bend all steel targets with just one shot.

no steel shoot it will bounce back at you almost as fast as it hit the target.

no rounds with a velocity of less than 600 it doesn’t produce enough velocity to shatter the projectile. it will come back at you (.25, .32 ect.) .22 is fine

keep all targets angled at 5 degs. left or right to help direct splatter away from shooters

always wear eye protection including any spectators with in hearing distance of steel shooting.

no ap rounds they will and do go through amour plate (that’s what they are made for)

if you’re target is the type that you can flip use the smooth side for pistol work and the pitted side for rifle work, it will become pitted from 223 ams 308 regardless of distance

some rare calibers that shoot faster than 3000 fps will cut thought the target and look like some one drilled it (know what people are shooting at it before you let them shoot at it) i lost 7,000$ once this way but a varmint guy shooting steel that was lent to a range for training. he didn’t like the outcome very much.

i post more later

Brian
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:43:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tomislav:1) What is the closest you can safely shoot 'normal' pistol caliber FMJs at steel targets? (9mm, .40, .45, etc.)


As long as there is some downward angle to the target, or it's a fallover popper/plate, I've shot AR500 as close as 10yds with pistol ammo.

2) What is the closest you can safely shoot modest 5.56 (like Wolf or Barnaul) at steel targets?


50yds is pushing it a little close, as shit happesns. I usually tell people who have gotten a plate from me to take it out to >75yds if shooting a rifle.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:59:23 PM EDT
Where can I buy armor plate to make metal targets for use with ARs?. My brother in law works for a company that makes cutting software and he has access to one of his clients' equipment. He made us some real nice .22 targets out of regular steel plate, but the AR drills 1/3" holes through them
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:25:41 PM EDT
Wow! Lots of great info! Thanks for everything guys!

I am pumped about getting some steel targets. I think I want to get the AR500 2/3 IPSC plates. I have one more question.



I only have vision in my right eye due to an injury. How dangerous is the lead back splatter, in the event you do catch some? I'll be shooting 9mm WWB FMJ at these mostly. I might shoot soft point .223 at them within 50 yards, and birdshot or buckshot.

These are the shooting glasses I use:

[


http://www.libertyoptical.com/products_maxx30.asp



• Meets ASTM F803 impact resistance standards for soccer, racquetball, handball, tennis, basketball, squash, and paddleball. Note: Strap provided by manufacturer must be worn during sporting activity.

• First protective sport eyewear to receive the AOA Seal of acceptance

• Patent rimlock construction

• Available in fashionable colors and tinted lens for MAXXimum protection and fashion

• MAXXimum cushioning for comfort and protection






Since I only have one eye, I have to be ultra careful. Do you expect that those safety glasses would protect my eye from damage in the event that they caught some lead back splatter?
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:35:43 PM EDT
I had a local company that makes blades for the mining industry cut me 10" circles of 1/2" thick AR500 with a 5/8" hole for $54 each. My friend then welded up some stands for me.

These targets will last a couple of lifetimes using .223-.308 at 100+ yards and at 10+ yards for pistols.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:01:53 PM EDT
I had a friend make us one from 5/8 armor plate. It easily takes 30.06 and 8mm steel core hits. It is in the shape of an IDPA profile cardboard target...but smaller. It is about 1/3 man size. We shoot at 100m and it does fine. It it spring loaded to pop up after taking hits. We spray it with dayglo yellow paint before shooting and then as necessary.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:10:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
Wow! Lots of great info! Thanks for everything guys!

I am pumped about getting some steel targets. I think I want to get the AR500 2/3 IPSC plates. I have one more question.



I only have vision in my right eye due to an injury. How dangerous is the lead back splatter, in the event you do catch some? I'll be shooting 9mm WWB FMJ at these mostly. I might shoot soft point .223 at them within 50 yards, and birdshot or buckshot.

These are the shooting glasses I use:

[
http://www.libertyoptical.com/frame_images/30_navy_black.jpg

http://www.libertyoptical.com/products_maxx30.asp



• Meets ASTM F803 impact resistance standards for soccer, racquetball, handball, tennis, basketball, squash, and paddleball. Note: Strap provided by manufacturer must be worn during sporting activity.

• First protective sport eyewear to receive the AOA Seal of acceptance

• Patent rimlock construction

• Available in fashionable colors and tinted lens for MAXXimum protection and fashion

• MAXXimum cushioning for comfort and protection






Since I only have one eye, I have to be ultra careful. Do you expect that those safety glasses would protect my eye from damage in the event that they caught some lead back splatter?



IMO, those are not safety glasses.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:12:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 5:13:14 PM EDT by EternalVigilance]
Originally Posted By BenP:
Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
Wow! Lots of great info! Thanks for everything guys!

I am pumped about getting some steel targets. I think I want to get the AR500 2/3 IPSC plates. I have one more question.



I only have vision in my right eye due to an injury. How dangerous is the lead back splatter, in the event you do catch some? I'll be shooting 9mm WWB FMJ at these mostly. I might shoot soft point .223 at them within 50 yards, and birdshot or buckshot.

These are the shooting glasses I use:

[
http://www.libertyoptical.com/frame_images/30_navy_black.jpg

http://www.libertyoptical.com/products_maxx30.asp



• Meets ASTM F803 impact resistance standards for soccer, racquetball, handball, tennis, basketball, squash, and paddleball. Note: Strap provided by manufacturer must be worn during sporting activity.

• First protective sport eyewear to receive the AOA Seal of acceptance

• Patent rimlock construction

• Available in fashionable colors and tinted lens for MAXXimum protection and fashion

• MAXXimum cushioning for comfort and protection






Since I only have one eye, I have to be ultra careful. Do you expect that those safety glasses would protect my eye from damage in the event that they caught some lead back splatter?



IMO, those are not safety glasses.




What makes them deficient? What would you recommend?
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:18:19 PM EDT
with just one eye i would get the ones that have full wrap around.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:59:07 PM EDT
You need a lens that's made for high velocity impact.

Wiley X has some good stuff. CLICK
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 6:12:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 6:15:05 PM EDT by BenP]
Here might be a cheaper alternative.

CLICK

Kinda plain jane but cool safety glasses.

ETA - Just look at what safety specifications these glasses and the Wiley X ones meet and keep that in mind when looking.

Hope this helps and good luck. You have to treat your good eye like gold.

I would be wearing safety glasses all the time.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 6:16:03 PM EDT
Thanks for all of the good information guys.


I really do appreciate it. I've actually got a pair of wiley x's that a friend gave to me after a deployment. Maybe I will take them down and have some prescription lenses put in them.
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