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Posted: 12/29/2006 7:32:22 PM EST
I spent the first three and a half hours tracking down Chester Child Molester, who has warrants for sexual assault here. I find his punk ass 800 miles away, and drop him in the lap of the local police agency. I told them we'd extradite him, I gave them everything except the completed paperwork. I literally talked him into walking in the front doors of the police department.

And the fuckers refuse to arrest him!

Jeezis, I'm pissed right now.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 8:47:56 PM EST
sounds like its time for you to speak with your supervisor and have him speak to their supervisor, or file a formal written complaint through that department, or go to the local media, or call the punisher...

Just ideas, just brainstorming...

Seriously though, what do you do in a situation like this?

Whats the SOP that wont end with bad blood or a future unwillingness to cooperate between your two agencies?
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 8:49:13 PM EST
P.S.

Thanks for you post BTW, actually made me use my brain a little, keep us updated since its an interesting account of something that you dont see on COPS or hear about on a regular basis.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 9:12:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
I spent the first three and a half hours tracking down Chester Child Molester, who has warrants for sexual assault here. I find his punk ass 800 miles away, and drop him in the lap of the local police agency. I told them we'd extradite him, I gave them everything except the completed paperwork. I literally talked him into walking in the front doors of the police department.

And the fuckers refuse to arrest him!

Jeezis, I'm pissed right now.


They give a reason not to make the arrest?

We are usually on the other end. We find a guy with a felony warrant from out of state and the ORI won't extradite.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 9:13:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By hkusp9:

......................
Whats the SOP that wont end with bad blood or a future unwillingness to cooperate between your two agencies?


Bad blood between agencies 800 miles apart?
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 10:42:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By tvc184:

Originally Posted By hkusp9:

......................
Whats the SOP that wont end with bad blood or a future unwillingness to cooperate between your two agencies?


Bad blood between agencies 800 miles apart?


Good point, fuck em, if they dont want to do the job they get paid for just file a complaint on them the same way a pissed off civilian would. Then call their local news agency and pitch a bitch fit about how they are letting child molestors run free.

You could have dateline there in two shakes of a lambs tail.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 10:43:47 PM EST
really, i would love to know what yall think should be done in a situation like this?
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 1:10:38 AM EST
Happens. Some depts are notorious for this. San Francisco comes to mind. Heck, I can point out a homicide suspect/transient that's arrested practically every week, but Los Angeles will not extradite. Heck, I've gone to Muncie Indiana and even as far as Walla Walla Washington to pick up molestors. Different priorities I guess.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 3:00:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2006 3:08:42 AM EST by vanilla_gorilla]

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Happens. Some depts are notorious for this. San Francisco comes to mind. Heck, I can point out a homicide suspect/transient that's arrested practically every week, but Los Angeles will not extradite. Heck, I've gone to Muncie Indiana and even as far as Walla Walla Washington to pick up molestors. Different priorities I guess.


Oh, we'll extradite. We want him. Why did this other agency not arrest him? The warrants were not entered in NCIC. Bear in mind, I personally sent a teletype with all the stuff they told me they needed, and they told me they'd hold him on it. Then I hang up the phone, and get a call an hour later telling me they're turning his ass loose.

Link Posted: 12/30/2006 3:10:09 AM EST
If you talked him into walking into the front door of the PD, talk him into a Kurt Cobain impression and save all the taxpayers a headache.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 3:18:07 AM EST
After they would not arrest him did he fall down the stairs a few times?
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 6:11:42 AM EST
I seriously want to know what you stand to loose by throwing a giant public hissy fit in their town about this.

What would happen if you called their dept and filed a complaint or called their local media? possibly even anonomously.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 6:33:20 AM EST
U went 800 miles for a old Hustler cartoon? Damn
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 7:47:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:


Oh, we'll extradite. We want him. Why did this other agency not arrest him? The warrants were not entered in NCIC. Bear in mind, I personally sent a teletype with all the stuff they told me they needed, and they told me they'd hold him on it. Then I hang up the phone, and get a call an hour later telling me they're turning his ass loose.


Why wasn't a warrant like that in NCIC??? If you were from GA, you would even put a failing to spay an animal warrant in there.

We will book for a pending extraditable warrant, but, if there is a warrant in place, an NCIC entry takes a whole 5 minutes (actually a lot less, but I am giving a newby some extra time), we expect them to enter it. That way, we can print it out, they can send over the TTY, and we are covered.

What did they want from you to hold him?
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 8:54:19 AM EST
Someone dropped a ball along the way. If the bad guy was not in NCIC the agency 800 miles away had nothing to work with unless they could make a case on him.
I understand your anger and I'm sorry it went down that way.
You have to check the computer, have a NIC number and verify the status before expecting an agency across the country to act.
No worries, get the warrant entered and try again.
We worked with USMS today and bagged a California bad guy in our fair city here in Texas. :)
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 9:03:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2006 9:04:32 AM EST by JH225]
Sorry, but like others have said.....What was the reason for the warrant NOT being in NCIC?

Why should the other agency hold him? Based off your word? Nope, won't happen.

What would happen if this Chi Mo was stopped for speeding and run for warrants? He would be cited for speed and let go, right? Of course. And why? Because there is no active warrant in the national system telling anyone he has a Chi Mo warrant.

They are just covering themselves.

Sorry, but your agency is wrong.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 11:21:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2006 11:22:31 AM EST by vanilla_gorilla]

Originally Posted By JH225:
Sorry, but like others have said.....What was the reason for the warrant NOT being in NCIC?

Why should the other agency hold him? Based off your word? Nope, won't happen.

What would happen if this Chi Mo was stopped for speeding and run for warrants? He would be cited for speed and let go, right? Of course. And why? Because there is no active warrant in the national system telling anyone he has a Chi Mo warrant.

They are just covering themselves.

Sorry, but your agency is wrong.


I don't know why the warrant wasn't entered. I'll have to wait until next week to find that out. When I go back to work, I'll sure as hell track down the cause of that.

The fact is, all that is needed for an agency is a hard copy of the information. I understand the reasons for this, and sent them a teletype with information. Everything they needed: warrant numbers, charges, bond amounts, issue dates, the whole deal. I even including the nice little line at the bottom that says "we will extradite". I do this every single night with different agencies. This is actually what THEY told me to do so they could arrest him. Then they changed their mind.

It's not quite so bad that they didn't arrest him, but now that he knows he's got a warrant, I doubt we'll ever see that fucker again.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 11:44:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By JH225:
Sorry, but like others have said.....What was the reason for the warrant NOT being in NCIC?

Why should the other agency hold him? Based off your word? Nope, won't happen.

What would happen if this Chi Mo was stopped for speeding and run for warrants? He would be cited for speed and let go, right? Of course. And why? Because there is no active warrant in the national system telling anyone he has a Chi Mo warrant.

They are just covering themselves.

Sorry, but your agency is wrong.


I don't know why the warrant wasn't entered. I'll have to wait until next week to find that out. When I go back to work, I'll sure as hell track down the cause of that.

The fact is, all that is needed for an agency is a hard copy of the information. I understand the reasons for this, and sent them a teletype with information. Everything they needed: warrant numbers, charges, bond amounts, issue dates, the whole deal. I even including the nice little line at the bottom that says "we will extradite". I do this every single night with different agencies. This is actually what THEY told me to do so they could arrest him. Then they changed their mind.

It's not quite so bad that they didn't arrest him, but now that he knows he's got a warrant, I doubt we'll ever see that fucker again.


Could it be that the reason that the BG went there in the first place is that he has political connections there?
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 12:09:37 PM EST
Well, for our fugitive booking, we need the NIC for entry on the form. That is the warrant number for the extradition portion. Your case number is important, but only for the DA and subsequent extradition hearing. May it is a policy thing at the jail rather than anything else.

Like I said before, we have captured people where there was PC only and the crime was too fresh for a warrant. They were held with a warrant pending status. Other times, NCIC was down when we found the guy. The only warrant we had was an old one printed out. The jail likes to print out their own, so they were very hesitant.

One more thing to think about, does your agency not pay its bills?? I understand why agencies want stuff in NCIC and want the confirmation via TTY. They want something to fall back on if this guy is never picked up. They want a way to bill your agency for the housing, if necessary.

Link Posted: 12/30/2006 12:45:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By DV8:
If you talked him into walking into the front door of the PD, talk him into a Kurt Cobain impression and save all the taxpayers a headache.


That's the best idea I've heard all week. You should put yourself in for a medal.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 3:50:04 PM EST
Thats weird. If they get him and "Locate" him via NCIC they get money for it. Wonder why they wont extridite. Its a felony warrant I assume?
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 6:06:41 PM EST
But why not help another agency?

If a cop called me from across the country and told me that a child molester was walking into my station to surrender, how hard is it to ask him if the molester is in NCIC? If not, how long will it take to get it entered?

My response would be, we will have him sit in the lobby or my office and if you can get it entered in the next half hour or so, we will gladly book him. It doesn't seem like a lot of rocket science.

I had a similar incident happen last summer. We had a gang banger that we needed in custody due to information that he was going to make a hit on another gang banger (I know, we should have waited). We found out he had an NCIC hit out of Florida for child molesting. At the time, we had no criminal charges on him locally. Even though he was in NCIC, their agency would not confirm extraditon until we "had him in custody on our charge". They simply would not authorize an arrest off of NCIC until we had cuffs on him.

I took a shot and called a detective in that town. The detective was familiar with the case and had been looking for the suspect and did not know that he was in Texas. I had my confirmation by NCIC in about five minutes and he is likely now spending time in a Florida jail. Our dispatcher couldn't figure out how I got the confirmation when he spoke to another dispatcher and could not get the same thing. I told him that it was easy, my blue spoke to his blue and we went around the dispatchers and their protocol.

Just how hard is it for one cop to talk to another and work out the problem? I can understand if some legal requirement is not met but it can't be that hard to do it right and accomplish it in a few minutes. Just to say, "well, he is not in NCIC yet" seems a lame excuse not to help another officer, if that is why the warrant was not served.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 6:16:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By tvc184:
I had a similar incident happen last summer. We had a gang banger that we needed in custody due to information that he was going to make a hit on another gang banger (I know, we should have waited). We found out he had an NCIC hit out of Florida for child molesting. At the time, we had no criminal charges on him locally. Even though he was in NCIC, their agency would not confirm extraditon until we "had him in custody on our charge". They simply would not authorize an arrest off of NCIC until we had cuffs on him.
Now THAT'S retarded.



I took a shot and called a detective in that town. The detective was familiar with the case and had been looking for the suspect and did not know that he was in Texas. I had my confirmation by NCIC in about five minutes and he is likely now spending time in a Florida jail. Our dispatcher couldn't figure out how I got the confirmation when he spoke to another dispatcher and could not get the same thing. I told him that it was easy, my blue spoke to his blue and we went around the dispatchers and their protocol.


Shame you have to work around dispatchers. They're worthless, aren't they? What with all that power that they're not afforded.


Just how hard is it for one cop to talk to another and work out the problem? I can understand if some legal requirement is not met but it can't be that hard to do it right and accomplish it in a few minutes. Just to say, "well, he is not in NCIC yet" seems a lame excuse not to help another officer, if that is why the warrant was not served.


Because I'm not a cop, apparently. Just one of them dispatchers. I'm also not allowed to enter warrants into FCIC, or else this likely could have been avoided, as well.

I think my frustration is with the whole system that neuters me and keeps me from doing a good job and being any more than just another voice on the radio, even when I go out of my way to try to excel. This whole thing is fucked up, but the part that really cheeses me more than anything is that they told me they'd do it, and then decided not to, even though they had full knowledge of what was going on.


Link Posted: 12/30/2006 6:30:22 PM EST
Dude thats screwed up....they would rather have a child molester running around? Has he been convicted before? Did he register as a felon in that area? Do your Jedi mind trick on him...send him a bus ticket and see if he'll use it.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 11:39:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
Shame you have to work around dispatchers. They're worthless, aren't they? What with all that power that they're not afforded.


I didn't see anything bad in my post about dispatchers. Where are you coming up with the worthless stuff? I said that I had to work around their protocol and that is what I did. They are fairly limited on what they can do, I am not.

I made a mistake in assuming that you were an officer. Did you really think that a phone call from you would authorize a police officer in another state to arrest someone?

If a dispatcher called me from another state and told me to take someone into custody, I am afraid that I would have to decline. I would say what I said in the first post, have it sent on NCIC in a few minutes and I will gladly help out. If you could not authorize it, why couldn't you have found someone that could?
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 12:15:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2006 12:21:43 AM EST by vanilla_gorilla]

Originally Posted By tvc184:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
Shame you have to work around dispatchers. They're worthless, aren't they? What with all that power that they're not afforded.


I didn't see anything bad in my post about dispatchers. Where are you coming up with the worthless stuff? I said that I had to work around their protocol and that is what I did. They are fairly limited on what they can do, I am not.

I made a mistake in assuming that you were an officer. Did you really think that a phone call from you would authorize a police officer in another state to arrest someone?


Does a phone call from a deputy in another state authorize you to to arrest someone?


If a dispatcher called me from another state and told me to take someone into custody, I am afraid that I would have to decline. I would say what I said in the first post, have it sent on NCIC in a few minutes and I will gladly help out. If you could not authorize it, why couldn't you have found someone that could?


RIF. Not just a telephone call, but a teletype WAS sent. That teletype is authorization for an officer to effect an arrest based upon our warrant. Do you really need to be told this kind of stuff?

Is my information different because I do not possess a badge?
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 12:36:05 AM EST
Make sure the warrant's in NCIC next time before going fishing for a child molestor 800 miles away. WHY wasn't it?

Or FAX a copy. I might pick someone up with only the teletype but there's no way that our State's Atty would approve the local "fugitive from justice" charge required in order for him to be remanded to custody of the jail pending extradition. On top of that, the county jail would NOT take him w/o the warrant being in NCIC or having a FAX copy of it in hand.

w/o a hard copy of the warrant or NCIC, it ain't gonna happen, at least not around here.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 12:40:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2006 12:42:04 AM EST by vanilla_gorilla]

Originally Posted By npd233:
Make sure the warrant's in NCIC next time before going fishing for a child molestor 800 miles away. WHY wasn't it?

Or FAX a copy. I might pick someone up with only the teletype but there's no way that our State's Atty would approve the local "fugitive from justice" charge required in order for him to be remanded to custody of the jail pending extradition. On top of that, the county jail would NOT take him w/o the warrant being in NCIC or having a FAX copy of it in hand.

w/o a hard copy of the warrant or NCIC, it ain't gonna happen, at least not around here.


Edit: Nevermind. If you didn't read it the first two times, you won't read it the third time.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 1:35:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Edit: Nevermind. If you didn't read it the first two times, you won't read it the third time.


I read everything. My response still stands.


A teletype ain't worth shit w/o a hard copy (i.e. FAX) or NCIC entry.

Just because you do it all the time and it works often, doesn't make it right.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 3:22:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 5:03:48 PM EST
I got frustrated by Bradenton, fl. authorities a few years ago, when I was a Bail bondsman. We had arrested a mexican fugitive/bond jumper on a $10,000 misd. assault warrant out of Missouri. Had certified copies of the bond, warrant and photos and booking info from the original arresting agency in Mo. We had the subject in custody and were attempting to leave the area when we were confronted by the local police. After a lengthy discussion of what was going on, we were ordered to release the subject or face arrest for kidnapping/unlawful restraint because the warrant was a misd. warrant from another state, even though the warrant was confirmed as valid. After another heated discussion, we released the subject and the incident ended up costing me $10,000, as we failed to produce the wanted subject. Fucked up deal, but that was apparently Florida law at the time, and for all I know, still is.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 5:08:44 PM EST
call the punisher
Link Posted: 1/1/2007 2:08:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By npd233:
Make sure the warrant's in NCIC next time before going fishing for a child molestor 800 miles away. WHY wasn't it?

Or FAX a copy. I might pick someone up with only the teletype but there's no way that our State's Atty would approve the local "fugitive from justice" charge required in order for him to be remanded to custody of the jail pending extradition. On top of that, the county jail would NOT take him w/o the warrant being in NCIC or having a FAX copy of it in hand.

w/o a hard copy of the warrant or NCIC, it ain't gonna happen, at least not around here.


I gotta agree with you on this one. This is how it has been explained to me concerning Out-of-State warrants:

I don't actually/technically "arrest" AND "serve" and Out-of-State warrant on someone that I happen to run a check on and get a hit/confirmation... rather I simply "detain" them as a "Fugitive From Justice", use the NCIC HIT CONFIRMATION as my "BOOKING/DETAINING DOCUMENT" and then the person is technically "SERVED/ARRESTED" on the warrant once in the custody of the agency that comes and gets the person.

I can not enforce or arrest on Ohio law no more than an Ohio LEO can arrest or enforce Florida law. Ohio is just an example but you get the point...

So perhaps, if what I have been trained/instructed on is correct, maybe this is what prevented the arrest.

It's been a GOLDEN RULE AND STANDARD for as long as I have been in LE... NO NCIC ENTRY/HIT... NO ARREST... NO EXCEPTIONS.

VG- You will eventually get your guy, find out who dropped the ball and why the warrant was not entered... BTW, I have had a similar experience and I'm sure it will happen again.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 7:54:09 AM EST
What you have been taught is completely wrong.

Unless your state is the only screwed up one that has no law concerning arresting for a warrant or a fugitive status.

BTW, how long can you legally detain someone in your state then??? I am sure an extradition hearing is well beyond your normal detention period!!

There are exceptions to your Golden Rule....... not so sure this is it, but there are plenty of real life situations where a warrant has not even been granted due to time constraints. Sorry, if Joe blow killed his spouse and was on a plane to your town, I hope you would actually arrest the guy instead of just letting him go. Add additional factors of nighttime, weekend, and the court is closed, thus preventing a warrant from being issued right away.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 10:25:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By RDP:
What you have been taught is completely wrong.

Unless your state is the only screwed up one that has no law concerning arresting for a warrant or a fugitive status.

BTW, how long can you legally detain someone in your state then??? I am sure an extradition hearing is well beyond your normal detention period!!

There are exceptions to your Golden Rule....... not so sure this is it, but there are plenty of real life situations where a warrant has not even been granted due to time constraints. Sorry, if Joe blow killed his spouse and was on a plane to your town, I hope you would actually arrest the guy instead of just letting him go. Add additional factors of nighttime, weekend, and the court is closed, thus preventing a warrant from being issued right away.


If you don't understand what I'm saying that's ok, maybe I did not explain it as best as perhaps it can be. Of course we will "arrest" the person in your example, hell we are not that FU'ed here. No where in my post did I say anything about letting a Fugitive walk.... The word/meaning of "arrest", as commonly known and used... then well yes, we "arrest" in the lose sense of the word.

I will try to get my hands on the FSS that empowers of to "arrest" Fugitives From Justice and provide better info....

BTW... it's not MY golden rule... I have seen this many times, no Warrant or NCIC entry, no arrest, remember, I never said I agreed with it .

Detention of someone "PENDING FORMAL CHARGES" (usual limit @72 hours) is different than Detention of someone already "CHARGED" (Speedy Trial Issues). I can't comment on extradition procedures because I know nothing about them.

Lastly, weekends and Court operating hours have NOTHING to do with whether or not a warrant can get drafted by an officer and then signed by a Judge... under the right circumstances, warrants, both arrest and search, can be done 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
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