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Posted: 1/26/2014 10:02:02 PM EDT
So seeing the new Carbon-15 line which now along with a carbon upper and lower excludes a forward assist and a shell deflector. Pretty sweet.

I guess it is great that they are "reliable in unreliable situations" hereconsidering that I could get a stag model 3 for only 30 dollars more or any comparable smith and wesson. I guess only great companies rely on the ignorance of their customers.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:05:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By djburnett:


So seeing the new Carbon-15 line which now along with a carbon upper and lower excludes a forward assist and a shell deflector. Pretty sweet.



I guess it is great that they are "reliable in unreliable situations" hereconsidering that I could get a stag model 3 for only 30 dollars more or any comparable smith and wesson. I guess only great companies rely on the ignorance of their customers.
View Quote

Stag? S&W? Really?






 

Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:10:29 PM EDT
Slights against those brands or disbelief in the prices, because the prices are right and I would put nearly any middling AR against a Cabon-15 and expect a great disparity in quality.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:13:03 PM EDT
At those prices on that site, a fucking Colt. Jesus fuck!  

I had a fellow cop ask me last week about getting an AR. He was going to buy a DPMS for about $50 less than a 6920. I just about choked him. He told me "oh they all get the parts from one manufacturer" line. I had to fucking explain.

Yeah, I have to bow to ARFCOM as cops do not equal gun people.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:15:53 PM EDT
Why does the one with a red dot cost $100 less?
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:16:15 PM EDT
Yep, Stags and some S&W have been the same price for awhile now when I've seen them.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:20:53 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Wolverine1776:
Why does the one with a red dot cost $100 less?
View Quote


Even cheaper barrel and a gas block that looks like is was sand cast.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:27:46 PM EDT
But stags and smiths and wessons are decent plane jane AR's, while this has followed the 'sport' with cutting the FA and the dust cover. Those are understandable cuts for penny pinching models, but with it's carbon lower it has a carbon upper with it's steel barrel and it doesn't even look to have a brass deflector WTF?
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:29:54 PM EDT
Is forged aluminum really that expensive to manufacture? Not understanding why Bushmaster would push these rifles so hard....4 different models....$1200?  No fucking thanks!
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:43:41 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Greggo556:
Is forged aluminum really that expensive to manufacture? Not understanding why Bushmaster would push these rifles so hard....4 different models....$1200?  No fucking thanks!
View Quote


You'd be surprised how expensive machining is. I'd be shocked if the aluminum forgings cost more than $20 for the lower receivers.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:46:49 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By djburnett:
But stags and smiths and wessons are decent plane jane AR's, while this has followed the 'sport' with cutting the FA and the dust cover. Those are understandable cuts for penny pinching models, but with it's carbon lower it has a carbon upper with it's steel barrel and it doesn't even look to have a brass deflector WTF?
View Quote



I had to double check, but all of them have aluminum uppers except the .22.  

The forward assist delete is becoming pretty standard in a lot of high end upper receivers.  Be honest, when is the last time you actually had to use your FA?  In my experience, the only time I ever had to was when I shouldn't be.  Bad ammo and the like.  

All that said, the prices are .  I hope that that is MSRP and the actual prices are quite a bit lower at the dealer.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:47:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:48:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By djburnett:
forward assist and a shell deflector
View Quote

FA is useless at best and will just make a problem worse.

Shell deflector is useless for right handers.

It's a lightweight gun and they eliminated useless weight to make it lighter. Good for them.

Edit: Oh it looks like they are using DPMS lo-pro uppers.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:52:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Greggo556:
Is forged aluminum really that expensive to manufacture? Not understanding why Bushmaster would push these rifles so hard....4 different models....$1200?  No fucking thanks!
View Quote

Clueless buyers and great profit potential.

The prices on the page are MSRP, not street prices.

They do really need to proofread that web page though.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:56:50 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By djburnett:
But stags and smiths and wessons are decent plane jane AR's, while this has followed the 'sport' with cutting the FA and the dust cover. Those are understandable cuts for penny pinching models, but with it's carbon lower it has a carbon upper with it's steel barrel and it doesn't even look to have a brass deflector WTF?
View Quote

It (carbon 15) also has a nasty habit of failing catastrophically.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:56:50 PM EDT
Carbon 15 and a Hi-Point...
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 10:57:19 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Saladin2:

FA is useless at best and will just make a problem worse.

Shell deflector is useless for right handers.

It's a lightweight gun and they eliminated useless weight to make it lighter. Good for them.

Edit: Oh it looks like they are using DPMS lo-pro uppers.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Saladin2:
Originally Posted By djburnett:
forward assist and a shell deflector

FA is useless at best and will just make a problem worse.

Shell deflector is useless for right handers.

It's a lightweight gun and they eliminated useless weight to make it lighter. Good for them.

Edit: Oh it looks like they are using DPMS lo-pro uppers.


Dust cover...  Your defense?
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 11:01:12 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Nobody who knows his ass from a hole in the ground is buying one on of those for unreliable situations. Most people are stupid, Bud's gunshop sells tons of them.
View Quote


Yep, I've been to Buds several times and they have PILES of these things sitting in the floor.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 11:02:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 11:02:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fig:

Dust cover...  Your defense?
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Since none of those rifles will see a dusty environment, other than sitting in mom's basement for too long, it's a waste of time and materials.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 11:05:57 PM EDT
I had a NORMAL 20" HBAR from them, it worked fine.  I did do some tweaking though, like restaking the gas key, and tightening the buffer tube.
I built several rifles using their 20" Gov't profile barrels, and they all shoot great.

But no way in hell I'm buying a Carbon-15, because that idea is just plain old retarded.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 11:12:04 PM EDT
Handled a friends carbon 15.



The fucking bolt catch never worked. And the interior walls of the mag well fought against me inserting a magazine.




Plastic receivers are fucking garbage. Stay away.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 11:22:17 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gamma762:

Clueless buyers and great profit potential.

The prices on the page are MSRP, not street prices.

They do really need to proofread that web page though.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By Greggo556:
Is forged aluminum really that expensive to manufacture? Not understanding why Bushmaster would push these rifles so hard....4 different models....$1200?  No fucking thanks!

Clueless buyers and great profit potential.

The prices on the page are MSRP, not street prices.

They do really need to proofread that web page though.

A chamber what?!?
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 1:31:27 AM EDT
I picked up a new Carbon-15 years ago from a FFL buddy for $740, as I recall. Um . . . 2004, or so? (Before I joined or even heard of arfcom!)

I've since bought/built several "real" AR's, but I gotta say that I've put probably 3-4K rounds through that Carbon-15 with nary a problem. Honestly, I can't remember a single FTF or FTE.

I read the Carbon-15 hate on here (practically everyday it seems!), but for what they are . . . eh. I later put a pencil barrel on it (it came with a standard one), ambi-selector, BAD lever and an EOTech and now it's my petite wife's go-to HD weapon - only because she can't really hold a real one, granted!

But, hey. For HD, I'm sure it'd prove more than adequate. I sure wouldn't want anyone pointing one at me. Would you?

Combat? No. Not so much. They're not made for that, though.



Now, all that said, I completely agree that $1,200 is utterly ridiculous. It's a wonder they sell any at all for that craziness! I sure wouldn't buy one for that. No way! And, truth be told: no. I probably wouldn't buy another - but, not because mine hasn't proven itself absolutely reliable.

Shit! Excluding add-ons, I built my RRA HD carbine for less than the $740 I paid for the Carbon-15 - and that was only 4 or 5 years ago. So...
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 3:51:33 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By enthalpy:
Carbon 15 and a Hi-Point...
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Dude don't insult HiPoint like that. They're cheap, heavy,and ugly but they shoot surprisingly well and run great. My HiPoint carbine really surprises folks and is accurate as hell at 50yds

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 3:56:37 AM EDT
Those things are far overpriced for what they are. The M&P Sport is a much better deal. My uncle got one for under $600 from cabelas.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 4:00:14 AM EDT
I still laugh about the M4 contour barrel on the ACR.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 6:39:46 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Former11BRAVO:
I picked up a new Carbon-15 years ago from a FFL buddy for $740, as I recall. Um . . . 2004, or so? (Before I joined or even heard of arfcom!)

I've since bought/built several "real" AR's, but I gotta say that I've put probably 3-4K rounds through that Carbon-15 with nary a problem. Honestly, I can't remember a single FTF or FTE.

I read the Carbon-15 hate on here (practically everyday it seems!), but for what they are . . . eh. I later put a pencil barrel on it (it came with a standard one), ambi-selector, BAD lever and an EOTech and now it's my petite wife's go-to HD weapon - only because she can't really hold a real one, granted!

But, hey. For HD, I'm sure it'd prove more than adequate. I sure wouldn't want anyone pointing one at me. Would you?

Combat? No. Not so much. They're not made for that, though.



Now, all that said, I completely agree that $1,200 is utterly ridiculous. It's a wonder they sell any at all for that craziness! I sure wouldn't buy one for that. No way! And, truth be told: no. I probably wouldn't buy another - but, not because mine hasn't proven itself absolutely reliable.

Shit! Excluding add-ons, I built my RRA HD carbine for less than the $740 I paid for the Carbon-15 - and that was only 4 or 5 years ago. So...
View Quote


I have only ever owned one Bushmaster and it wasn't a Carbon model.  It is a XM-15 A2 with a 20 inch barrel.  It is the first AR I ever owned and it is still the most accurate with any ammo I feed it, as far as 300 yards.

I have since purchased a Colt 6940 and a Sig556 DMR.  Both are fine rifles...that my Bushmaster is more accurate than...especially at longer distances with open sights.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 6:46:31 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By enthalpy:


Carbon 15 and a Hi-Point...
View Quote




 
Making fun of my get home kit?
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 6:57:05 AM EDT
You get what you pay for.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 6:59:32 AM EDT
Rather have a bolt gun or shotgun.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 7:02:33 AM EDT
Is there really any such thing as Bushmaster at all?  Aren't the current "Bushmasters" just a Freedom Group brand that is stamped on DPMS or Carbon-15 parts and the old Bushmaster facility now makes Wyndham Weaponry?
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 7:03:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2014 7:03:41 AM EDT by Mikhail_86]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:

Aren't the current "Bushmasters" just a Freedom Group brand that is stamped on DPMS or Carbon-15 parts and the old Bushmaster facility now makes Wyndham Weaponry?
View Quote
yes


 
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 7:04:38 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Nobody who knows his ass from a hole in the ground is buying one on of those for unreliable situations. Most people are stupid, Bud's gunshop sells tons of them.
View Quote


A solid observation.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 7:56:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 7:58:12 AM EDT
Have they figured out the F-marked FSB yet?
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 9:49:27 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Bushmaster is at Remington's facility in Ilion, NY.  
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By Mikhail_86:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Aren't the current "Bushmasters" just a Freedom Group brand that is stamped on DPMS or Carbon-15 parts and the old Bushmaster facility now makes Wyndham Weaponry?
yes  
Bushmaster is at Remington's facility in Ilion, NY.  


Is there any real separate function of Bushmaster at all, other than as a brand name?
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:58:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2014 1:06:04 PM EDT by Adirondack1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:


Is there any real separate function of Bushmaster at all, other than as a brand name?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By Mikhail_86:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Aren't the current "Bushmasters" just a Freedom Group brand that is stamped on DPMS or Carbon-15 parts and the old Bushmaster facility now makes Wyndham Weaponry?
yes  
Bushmaster is at Remington's facility in Ilion, NY.  


Is there any real separate function of Bushmaster at all, other than as a brand name?


Yes Bushmaster is a separate entity than Marlin, Remington, Remington Defense, and H&R. They are physically in the same plant, and share some of the same facilities like the testfire ranges, but each has it own division within the company.

Each has its own own production area, and staff.

I personally would not buy a C-15, but for some people who like to plink, the new aluminum upper defiantly an improvement over the old style Upper.

So I'm wondering if some of the hate will be shared by Windham's new carbon AR?



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