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Posted: 3/20/2006 8:22:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 1:49:49 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
What a nightmare. Europeans frequently exasperate me, but I wouldn't wish an unelected unaccountable bureaucracy with power over every aspect of one's life on my worst enemy.

So, you thought the European constitution was dead, did you?
By Daniel Hannan
(Filed: 20/03/2006)

Two years from now, the European constitution will be in force - certainly de facto and probably de jure, too. Never mind that 15 million Frenchmen and five million swag-bellied Hollanders voted against it.

The Eurocrats have worked out a deft way of getting around them. Here's how they'll do it.

First, they will shove through as many of the constitution's contents as they can under the existing legal framework - a process they had already begun even before the referendums.

Around 85 per cent of the text can, with some creative interpretation, be implemented this way.

True, there are one or two clauses that will require a formal treaty amendment: a European president to replace the system whereby the member nations take it in turns to chair EU meetings; a new voting system; legal personality for the Union.

These outstanding items will be formalised at a miniature inter-governmental conference, probably in 2007. There will be no need to debate them again: all 25 governments accepted them in principle when they signed the constitution 17 months ago.

We shall then be told that these are detailed and technical changes, far too abstruse to be worth pestering the voters with.

The EU will thus have equipped itself with 100 per cent of the constitution, but without having held any more referendums. Clever, no?

Don't take my word for it: listen to what the EU's own leaders are saying. Here is Wolfgang Schüssel, Chancellor of Austria and the EU's current president: "The constitution is not dead."

Here is Angela Merkel, leader of Europe's most powerful and populous state: "Europe needs the constitution… We are willing to make whatever contribution is necessary to bring the constitution into force."

Here is Dominique de Villepin, who, in true European style, has risen to the prime ministership of France without ever having run for elected office: "France did not say no to Europe."

And, on Tuesday, our own Europe minister, Douglas Alexander, repeatedly refused to rule out pushing ahead with the bulk of the text without a referendum.

For the purest statement of the Eurocrats' contempt for the voters, however, we must turn to the constitution's author, Valéry Giscard d'Estaing.

Here is a man who, with his exquisite suits and de haut en bas manner, might be said to personify the EU: so extraordinarily distinguished, as Mallarmé remarked in a different context, that when you bid him bonjour, he makes you feel as though you'd said merde.

"Let's be clear about this," pronounced Giscard a couple of weeks ago. "The rejection of the constitution was a mistake that will have to be corrected."

He went on to remind his audience that the Danish and Irish electorates had once been presumptuous enough to vote against a European treaty, but that no one had paid them the slightest attention.

The same thing is happening today. Since the French and Dutch "No" votes, three countries have approved the text and three more - Finland, Estonia and Belgium - look set to follow in the coming weeks, which would bring to 16 the number of states to have ratified.

At the same time, the European Commission has launched a massive exercise to sell the constitution to the doltish national electorates.

Their scheme goes under the splendidly James Bondish title of "Plan D". I forget what the D stands for: deceit, I think, or possibly disdain.

Anyway, squillions of euros are being spent on explaining to us that we have misunderstood our true interests.

While all this is going on, the EU is proceeding as if the constitution were already in force. Most of the institutions and policies that it would have authorised are being enacted anyway: the External Borders Agency, the European Public Prosecutor, the External Action Service, the Charter of Fundamental Rights, the European Defence Agency, the European Space Programme.

The text is not, as the cliché of the moment has it, being "smuggled in through the back door"; it is swaggering brazenly through the front.

Whenever one of these initiatives comes before us on the constitutional affairs committee, I ask my federalist colleagues: "Where in the existing treaties does it say you can do this?"

"Where does it say we can't?" they reply. Pressed for a proper answer, they point to a flimsy cat's-cradle of summit communiqués, council resolutions and commission press releases.

To be fair, this is how the European project has always advanced. First, Brussels extends its jurisdiction into a new field of policy and then, often years later, it gets around to regularising that extension in a new treaty.

The voters are thus presented with a fait accompli, the theory being that they will be likelier to shrug their shoulders and accept it than they would have been to give their consent in advance.

This, indeed, is how the EU was designed. Its founding fathers understood from the first that their audacious plan to merge the ancient nations of Europe into a single polity would never succeed if each successive transfer of power had to be referred back to the voters for approval.

So they cunningly devised a structure where supreme power was in the hands of appointed functionaries, immune to public opinion.

Indeed, the EU's structure is not so much undemocratic as anti-democratic in that many commissioners, à la Patten and Kinnock, have been explicitly rejected by the voters.

In swatting aside two referendum results, the EU is being true to its foundational principles.

Born out of a reaction against the Second World War, and the plebiscitary democracy that had preceded it, the EU is based on the notion that "populism" (or "democracy", as you and I call it) is a dangerous thing.

Faced with a result that they dislike, the Euro-apparatchiks' first instinct is to ask, with Brecht: "Wouldn't it be easier to dissolve the people and elect another in their place?"

To complain that the EU is undemocratic is like attacking a cow for being bovine, or a butterfly for being flighty. In disregarding public opinion, the EU is doing what it has been programmed to do. It is fulfilling its prime directive.

Sadly, we British are also exhibiting one of our worst national characteristics, namely our tendency to ignore what is happening on the Continent until too late.

With a few exceptions - and here I doff my cap to the pressure group Open Europe, which is waging a lonely campaign to alert people to the danger - we are carrying on as though the French electorate had killed off the constitution, and so spared us from having to think about the European issue at all.

Once again, we are fantasising about the kind of EU we might ideally like to have, rather than dealing with the one that is in fact taking shape on our doorstep. Will we never learn?

Link

<Title edit. We don't have the F-word in thread titles. --tbk1>
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 8:24:42 PM EDT
I wonder how long it will be before the war between the EU and the U.S.?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 8:24:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 8:25:22 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

I hate the EU with the intensity of a thousand exploding suns.




I was in favor of the Common Market, but the "union" has grown into a grotesque abomination.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:15:00 PM EDT
I wonder how many more years it will be before there will be another war on European soil to liberate them from tyranny.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:16:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
I wonder how long it will be before the war between the EU and the U.S.?



the EU will collapse in on itself far before that
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:19:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
I wonder how long it will be before the war between the EU and the U.S.?



They'll be too busy killing each other. Do you know how the machine gun was invented? Someone told Mr. Maxim that "If you wanted to make a lot of money, invent something that will enable these Europeans to cut each other's throats with greater facility." and history was made.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:21:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSneak:

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
I wonder how long it will be before the war between the EU and the U.S.?



They'll be too busy killing each other. Do you know how the machine gun was invented? Someone told Mr. Maxim that "If you wanted to make a lot of money, invent something that will enable these Europeans to cut each other's throats with greater facility." and history was made.



Really?

Funny, because the general thinking when the machinegun was first introduced, was that it'd be great for stomping Africans and other savages in the colonies but it didn't have much use otherwise. The machinegun turned Europe into a meatgrinder in WWI.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:23:09 PM EDT
What are some of the Ammendments or Articles?

Do they have a blanket anti-gun clause regardless of states?

Do they have a bill of rights?

I haven't taken the time to read any of it.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:26:35 PM EDT
Yes. The right to vote is indeed the only force needed to check governments.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:27:49 PM EDT
Free Bump

Cliff notes quotes. Really intersting bits in red. NUKE BRUSSELS!!


Two years from now, the European constitution will be in force - certainly de facto and probably de jure, too. Never mind that 15 million Frenchmen and five million swag-bellied Hollanders voted against it.

The Eurocrats have worked out a deft way of getting around them. Here's how they'll do it.

First, they will shove through as many of the constitution's contents as they can under the existing legal framework - a process they had already begun even before the referendums.


*
*

We shall then be told that these are detailed and technical changes, far too abstruse to be worth pestering the voters with.
The EU will thus have equipped itself with 100 per cent of the constitution, but without having held any more referendums. Clever, no?


*
*

And, on Tuesday, our own Europe minister, Douglas Alexander, repeatedly refused to rule out pushing ahead with the bulk of the text without a referendum.

For the purest statement of the Eurocrats' contempt for the voters, however, we must turn to the constitution's author, Valéry Giscard d'Estaing..."Let's be clear about this," pronounced Giscard a couple of weeks ago. "The rejection of the constitution was a mistake that will have to be corrected."
He went on to remind his audience that the Danish and Irish electorates had once been presumptuous enough to vote against a European treaty, but that no one had paid them the slightest attention.


*
*

At the same time, the European Commission has launched a massive exercise to sell the constitution to the doltish national electorates.

Their scheme goes under the splendidly James Bondish title of "Plan D". I forget what the D stands for: deceit, I think, or possibly disdain.

Anyway, squillions of euros are being spent on explaining to us that we have misunderstood our true interests.


*
*

To be fair, this is how the European project has always advanced. First, Brussels extends its jurisdiction into a new field of policy and then, often years later, it gets around to regularising that extension in a new treaty.

The voters are thus presented with a fait accompli, the theory being that they will be likelier to shrug their shoulders and accept it than they would have been to give their consent in advance.

This, indeed, is how the EU was designed. Its founding fathers understood from the first that their audacious plan to merge the ancient nations of Europe into a single polity would never succeed if each successive transfer of power had to be referred back to the voters for approval.

So they cunningly devised a structure where supreme power was in the hands of appointed functionaries, immune to public opinion.

Indeed, the EU's structure is not so much undemocratic as anti-democratic in that many commissioners, à la Patten and Kinnock, have been explicitly rejected by the voters.

In swatting aside two referendum results, the EU is being true to its foundational principles.

Born out of a reaction against the Second World War, and the plebiscitary democracy that had preceded it, the EU is based on the notion that "populism" (or "democracy", as you and I call it) is a dangerous thing.

Faced with a result that they dislike, the Euro-apparatchiks' first instinct is to ask, with Brecht: "Wouldn't it be easier to dissolve the people and elect another in their place?"

To complain that the EU is undemocratic is like attacking a cow for being bovine, or a butterfly for being flighty. In disregarding public opinion, the EU is doing what it has been programmed to do. It is fulfilling its prime directive.

Sadly, we British are also exhibiting one of our worst national characteristics, namely our tendency to ignore what is happening on the Continent until too late.



Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:28:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 9:32:39 PM EDT by raven]

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
What are some of the Ammendments or Articles?

Do they have a blanket anti-gun clause regardless of states?

Do they have a bill of rights?

I haven't taken the time to read any of it.



Neither have most Europeans. You can of course do your own research if you care about this thing that luckily has no bearing on your life. But basically, it's a move towards a command attitide towards society. An enlighted bureaucracy making the best decisions for everyone, instead of risking leaving it up to individuals who might make the incorrect choice for themselves.

From a foreign policy standpoint, it's the idea of creating a counterweight to the undue hegemony of the USA on world events that used to be balanced by the USSR.

The EU basically is nothing but a kinder, gentler USSR guided by continental European civilization/culture instead of Russian civilization/culture. It isn't a threat, but it doesn't serve the poor saps that it was undemocratically foisted upon either.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:41:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OFFascist:
I wonder how many more years it will be before there will be another war on European soil to liberate them from tyranny.



I'm afraid it won't happen, unless China wants a piece of the action. Americans are getting too squeamish to go to war these days.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:55:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By TheSneak:

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
I wonder how long it will be before the war between the EU and the U.S.?



They'll be too busy killing each other. Do you know how the machine gun was invented? Someone told Mr. Maxim that "If you wanted to make a lot of money, invent something that will enable these Europeans to cut each other's throats with greater facility." and history was made.



Really?

Funny, because the general thinking when the machinegun was first introduced, was that it'd be great for stomping Africans and other savages in the colonies but it didn't have much use otherwise. The machinegun turned Europe into a meatgrinder in WWI.



That's because the Europeans were stupid. They wised up pretty fast though. I highly recommend the book "The Social History of the Machine Gun" for more reading on the topic. I don't think it has the Maxim quote in it though.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:00:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
What are some of the Ammendments or Articles?

Do they have a blanket anti-gun clause regardless of states?

Do they have a bill of rights?

I haven't taken the time to read any of it.



news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2950276.stm

The Preamble is enough to tell you what a stinking pile of bureaucratic bull shit this whole thing is....


PREAMBLE

HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF THE BELGIANS, THE PRESIDENT OF THE CZECH REPUBLIC, HER MAJESTY THE
QUEEN OF DENMARK, THE PRESIDENT OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY, THE PRESIDENT OF THE
REPUBLIC OF ESTONIA, THE PRESIDENT OF THE HELLENIC REPUBLIC, HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF SPAIN, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE FRENCH REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF IRELAND, THE PRESIDENT OF THE ITALIAN
REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF LATVIA, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF LITHUANIA, HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS THE GRAND DUKE OF LUXEMBOURG, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY, THE PRESIDENT OF MALTA, HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF THE
NETHERLANDS, THE FEDERAL PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF AUSTRIA, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC
OF POLAND, THE PRESIDENT OF THE PORTUGUESE REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
SLOVENIA, THE PRESIDENT OF THE SLOVAK REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF FINLAND, THE
GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF SWEDEN, HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF
GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND,

DRAWING INSPIRATION from the cultural, religious and humanist inheritance of Europe, from which
have developed the universal values of the inviolable and inalienable rights of the human person,
freedom, democracy, equality and the rule of law,

BELIEVING that Europe, reunited after bitter experiences, intends to continue along the path of
civilisation, progress and prosperity, for the good of all its inhabitants, including the weakest and
most deprived; that it wishes to remain a continent open to culture, learning and social progress; and
that it wishes to deepen the democratic and transparent nature of its public life, and to strive for
peace, justice and solidarity throughout the world,

CONVINCED that, while remaining proud of their own national identities and history, the peoples of
Europe are determined to transcend their former divisions and, united ever more closely, to forge a
common destiny,

CONVINCED that, thus ‘United in diversity’, Europe offers them the best chance of pursuing, with due
regard for the rights of each individual and in awareness of their responsibilities towards future
generations and the Ear th, the great venture which makes of it a special area of human hope,

DETERMINED to continue the work accomplished within the framework of the Treaties establishing
the European Communities and the Treaty on European Union, by ensuring the continuity of the
Community acquis,

GRATEFUL to the members of the European Convention for having prepared the draft of this
Constitution on behalf of the citizens and States of Europe,



And it continues on for NEARY FIVE HUNDRED PAGES

Compare with ours...

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:01:52 PM EDT
no legal document can match the simple beauty of our constitution. no other document does so much with so few words. it's as near perfection as any legal document comes
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:13:49 PM EDT
I can't think of many ideas worse than attempting to unify a bunch of countries with seperate and very different histories under one government.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:17:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blacklisted:
I can't think of many ideas worse than attempting to unify a bunch of countries with seperate and very different histories under one government.



separate and different:
-history
-culture
-religion
-social outlook


AND THEY ALL DON'T TRUST EACHOTHER AND HATE EACHOTHER!

so WHEN one EU country goes to war with another, is that considered a civil war?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:19:43 PM EDT
It couldnt work on its face.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:59:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
I wonder how long it will be before the war between the EU and the U.S.?



the EU US will collapse in on itself far before that



More and more countries are looking to replace their standard with the Euro, as opposed to the dollar.
The house of cards is gonna collapse soon.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 11:04:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
I wonder how long it will be before the war between the EU and the U.S.?



the EU US will collapse in on itself far before that



More and more countries are looking to replace their standard with the Euro, as opposed to the dollar.
The house of cards is gonna collapse soon.



The US dollar? I really doubt it.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 11:11:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
I wonder how long it will be before the war between the EU and the U.S.?



the EU US will collapse in on itself far before that



More and more countries are looking to replace their standard with the Euro, as opposed to the dollar.
The house of cards is gonna collapse soon.



The US dollar? I really doubt it.



Iraq was about to, shortly before the invasion.
France and Germany were pushing it as part of backdoor oil/weapons deal.
Iran is now looking to change to the Euro as well.

People talk about China going to war with us - bullshit.
All China would have to do is use the Euro as the standard, as opposed to the US dollar.
Make no mistake about it - our currency is backed only by the faith of others.
Our money is not backed by gold, silver, or any tangible - only trust.
Once that trust is gone - so is our economy.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 11:12:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 1:29:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 1:34:28 AM EDT by Lert]

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
What are some of the Ammendments or Articles?



EU constitution table of contents

Just pick bits out. It's almost impossible to understand- worse than an insurance document


Do they have a blanket anti-gun clause regardless of states?

Don't know, but the EU is not to fond of empowering "citizens"


Do they have a bill of rights?


It's called the

CHARTER OF FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS OF THE EUROPEAN UNION
and it bears very little resemblance to your Bill of Rights.

My favorite articles are

Article 14
Right to education
1. Everyone has the right to education and to have access to vocational and continuing training.
2. This right includes the possibility to receive free compulsory education.
3. The freedom to found educational establishments with due respect for democratic principles and
the right of parents to ensure the education and teaching of their children in conformity with their
religious, philosophical and pedagogical convictions shall be respected, in accordance with the national
laws governing the exercise of such freedom and right.




Article 17
Right to property
1. Everyone has the right to own, use, dispose of and bequeath his or her lawfully acquired
possessions. No one may be deprived of his or her possessions, except in the public interest and in
the cases and under the conditions provided for by law, subject to fair compensation being paid in good
time for their loss. The use of property may be regulated by law in so far as is necessary for the general
interest.

2. Intellectual property shall be protected.




Article 23
Equality between men and women
Equality between men and women must be ensured in all areas, including employment, work and pay.
The principle of equality shall not prevent the maintenance or adoption of measures providing for
specific advantages in favour of the under-represented sex




Article 28
Right of collective bargaining and action
Workers and employers, or their respective organisations, have, in accordance with Community law and
national laws and practices, the right to negotiate and conclude collective agreements at the appropriate
levels and, in cases of conf licts of interest, to take collective action to defend their interests, including
strike action.




Article 29
Right of access to placement services
Everyone has the right of access to a free placement ser vice.

Article 30
Protection in the event of unjustif ied dismissal
Every worker has the right to protection against unjustified dismissal, in accordance with Community
law and national laws and practices.





Article 34
Social security and social assistance
1. The Union recognises and respects the entitlement to social security benefits and social ser vices
providing protection in cases such as maternity, illness, industrial accidents, dependency or old age, and
in the case of loss of employment, in accordance with the rules laid down by Community law and
national laws and practices.
2. Everyone residing and moving legally within the European Union is entitled to social security
benefits and social advantages in accordance with Community law and national laws and practices.
3. In order to combat social exclusion and poverty, the Union recognises and respects the right to
social and housing assistance so as to ensure a decent existence for all those who lack sufficient
resources, in accordance with the rules laid down by Community law and national laws and practices.


Article 35
Health care
Everyone has the right of access to preventive health care and the right to benefit from medical
treatment under the conditions established by national laws and practices. A high level of human
health protection shall be ensured in the definition and implementation of all Union policies and
activities.


Article 36
Access to services of general economic interest
The Union recognises and respects access to ser vices of general economic interest as provided for in
national laws and practices, in accordance with the Treaty establishing the European Community, in
order to promote the social and territorial cohesion of the Union.
Article 37


Environmental protection
A high level of environmental protection and the improvement of the quality of the environment must
be integrated into the policies of the Union and ensured in accordance with the principle of sustainable
development.




Article 39
Right to vote and to stand as a candidate at elections to the European Parliament
1. Every citizen of the Union has the right to vote and to stand as a candidate at elections to the
European Parliament in the Member State in which he or she resides, under the same conditions as
nationals of that State.





Article 51
Scope
1. The provisions of this Charter are addressed to the institutions and bodies of the Union with due
regard for the principle of subsidiarity and to the Member States only when they are implementing
Union law. They shall therefore respect the rights, obser ve the principles and promote the application
thereof in accordance with their respective powers.
2. This Charter does not establish any new power or task for the Community or the Union, or
modify powers and tasks defined by the Treaties. So its really a farce

Article 52
Scope of guaranteed rights
1. Any limitation on the exercise of the rights and freedoms recognised by this Charter must be
provided for by law and respect the essence of those rights and freedoms. Subject to the principle of
proportionality, limitations may be made only if they are necessary and genuinely meet objectives of
general interest recognised by the Union or the need to protect the rights and freedoms of others.
So the Union can abrograte your rights if it deems it necessary




Article 54
Prohibition of abuse of rights
Nothing in this Charter shall be interpreted as implying any right to engage in any activity or to perform
any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms recognised in this Charter or at their
limitation to a greater extent than is provided for herein. Which is no protection at all, since Art. 52 allows for the absolute abuse and limitation of these rights by government




I haven't taken the time to read any of it.


Worth the time if you want to understand how tyrany can sneak up on you in the guise of virtue and efficiency.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 1:37:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Originally Posted By stickfigure:




The Preamble is enough to tell you what a stinking pile of bureaucratic bull shit this whole thing is....

<SNIP>
And it continues on for NEARY FIVE HUNDRED PAGES

Compare with ours...

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.



Big +LOTS
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 1:40:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Denmark will walk out on the EU, Britain will follow…

ANdy



And the EU will demand that Britain leave behind the North Sea oilfields and fisheries. They wont let Britain go any other way. It's a ready-made European war if not managed right, complete with an EU 5th column inside the British establishment.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 1:58:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 3:05:18 AM EDT
‘United in diversity’

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 3:44:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Denmark will walk out on the EU, Britain will follow…



Excellent, I'd love to see other West-European nations except Switzerland and us as non-EU-members.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 3:47:39 AM EDT
And people wonder why I think the AntiChrist will come from the EU.

The Constitution sounds like it was written by Satan himself.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 10:42:25 AM EDT
Oh, Monsieur Vitto, you son of a silly person,
I'll see your petite nuclear force and raise you 4


and 1


with 16 each of


PLUS

45 of



and 24



carrying 65 (in total)



Ah blow my nose at your collection of fire crackerers, silly English Kinigits!
Ah fart in your general direction!
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 10:45:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lert:
Oh, Monsieur Vitto, you son of a silly person,
I'll see your petite nuclear force and raise you 4
www.cdi.org/nuclear/database/inflex.jpg

and 1
www.cdi.org/nuclear/database/triom.jpg

with 16 each of
www.cdi.org/nuclear/database/m4.jpg

PLUS

45 of

www.cdi.org/nuclear/database/mirage2.jpg

and 24

www.cdi.org/nuclear/database/etendard.jpg

carrying 65 (in total)

www.cdi.org/nuclear/database/asmp.jpg

Ah blow my nose at your collection of fire crackerers, silly English Kinigits!
Ah fart in your general direction!




Do you really think mere nuclear weapons can defeat the awesome global power of cartoons that Denmark posseses??

Don't mess with our North Sea fishing grounds or oil fields, or we shall draw a naughty cartoon about you!!!
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 10:53:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Lert:




Do you really think mere nuclear weapons can defeat the awesome global power of cartoons that Denmark posseses??

Don't mess with our North Sea fishing grounds or oil fields, or we shall draw a naughty cartoon about you!!!





Bloody hell Prof, that's just too funny!
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 10:55:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 11:02:22 AM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 10:59:19 AM EDT
The EU Constitution is roughly equivalent to what we're slowly working towards in the US.

I still think this is nothing but a ploy by Germany to hold exercises in France, quickly declare war and go, "GOTCHA!"
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 11:04:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Denmark will walk out on the EU, Britain will follow…

ANdy



Amazing. Other than Italy, those are the only Western European nations I want to visit.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 11:05:02 AM EDT
something like this -> "the more corrupt the state, the more its laws."


Originally Posted By Airwolf:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2950276.stm

The Preamble is enough to tell you what a stinking pile of bureaucratic bull shit this whole thing is....


PREAMBLE

HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF THE BELGIANS, THE PRESIDENT OF THE CZECH REPUBLIC, HER MAJESTY THE
QUEEN OF DENMARK, THE PRESIDENT OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY, THE PRESIDENT OF THE
REPUBLIC OF ESTONIA, THE PRESIDENT OF THE HELLENIC REPUBLIC, HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF SPAIN, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE FRENCH REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF IRELAND, THE PRESIDENT OF THE ITALIAN
REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF LATVIA, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF LITHUANIA, HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS THE GRAND DUKE OF LUXEMBOURG, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY, THE PRESIDENT OF MALTA, HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF THE
NETHERLANDS, THE FEDERAL PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF AUSTRIA, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC
OF POLAND, THE PRESIDENT OF THE PORTUGUESE REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
SLOVENIA, THE PRESIDENT OF THE SLOVAK REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF FINLAND, THE
GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF SWEDEN, HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF
GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND,

DRAWING INSPIRATION from the cultural, religious and humanist inheritance of Europe, from which
have developed the universal values of the inviolable and inalienable rights of the human person,
freedom, democracy, equality and the rule of law,

BELIEVING that Europe, reunited after bitter experiences, intends to continue along the path of
civilisation, progress and prosperity, for the good of all its inhabitants, including the weakest and
most deprived; that it wishes to remain a continent open to culture, learning and social progress; and
that it wishes to deepen the democratic and transparent nature of its public life, and to strive for
peace, justice and solidarity throughout the world,

CONVINCED that, while remaining proud of their own national identities and history, the peoples of
Europe are determined to transcend their former divisions and, united ever more closely, to forge a
common destiny,

CONVINCED that, thus ‘United in diversity’, Europe offers them the best chance of pursuing, with due
regard for the rights of each individual and in awareness of their responsibilities towards future
generations and the Ear th, the great venture which makes of it a special area of human hope,

DETERMINED to continue the work accomplished within the framework of the Treaties establishing
the European Communities and the Treaty on European Union, by ensuring the continuity of the
Community acquis,

GRATEFUL to the members of the European Convention for having prepared the draft of this
Constitution on behalf of the citizens and States of Europe,



And it continues on for NEARY FIVE HUNDRED PAGES

Compare with ours...

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 11:09:10 AM EDT
That is just one gigantic plate of suck if it happens...
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 11:16:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Denmark will walk out on the EU, Britain will follow…

ANdy



Sooner the better!
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 11:16:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Lert:
Oh, Monsieur Vitto, you son of a silly person,

Ah blow my nose at your collection of fire crackerers, silly English Kinigits!
Ah fart in your general direction!




HA!!!!!!

You think we will quake before the Cheese Eating Surrenduer Monkeys???

We will issue our troops with a secret weapon so awesome the Phrench will immidiately put down their weapons when they see it!

YES!!!! We will issue our men with German helmets and moustaches!



But you will quake before our catapult propelled cow



or if not, then we will release this



Link Posted: 3/21/2006 11:48:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
I wonder how long it will be before the war between the EU and the U.S.?



I have wondered about that! As soon as it was created I knew the only people it would have to fight would be the US or the Chinese
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 11:53:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 11:56:31 AM EDT
So much so that someone was actually talking about bringing the Lira back
That really is desperation. I never thought I'd see the day when Italians started to prefer other Italians running the country over someone, anyone else
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:05:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 12:06:19 PM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:11:58 PM EDT
Let's not be condescending towards our European Arfcomers, boyos. After all our Constitution is "just a piece of paper." When our bureaucrats get wind of this they'll salivate like Vito's bulldog.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:32:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Lert:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Lert:
Oh, Monsieur Vitto, you son of a silly person,

Ah blow my nose at your collection of fire crackerers, silly English Kinigits!
Ah fart in your general direction!




HA!!!!!!

You think we will quake before the Cheese Eating Surrenduer Monkeys???

We will issue our troops with a secret weapon so awesome the Phrench will immidiately put down their weapons when they see it!

YES!!!! We will issue our men with German helmets and moustaches!



But you will quake before our catapult propelled cow

orangecow.org/pythonet/linus/photos/grail/grail046.jpg

or if not, then we will release this

slacker.com/~snax/photos/albums/MontyPythonhumor/HolyGrail180.jpg

www.angelfire.com/ny5/mpholygrail/images/frenchman1.jpg



They say a countries 'National Dog' is a very good reflection of a countries 'Spirit'.



France's 'National Dog'……… the Poodle, how gay is this?

www.cnn.com/US/9802/17/dog.show/link.toy.poodle.jpg

Now we have the Bulldog, the British 'National Dog'………

news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38717000/jpg/_38717481_bulldog.jpg


I rest my case…



Oh no, you insult our poodle...well...

For the pride of France...
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V
We'll send the Germans to surrender for us
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:39:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:39:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Lert:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By Lert:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By Lert:
For the pride of France...
|
|
|
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V
We'll send the Germans to surrender for us
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/German_Army_Surrender.jpg




The only Phrench a German needs to know…

"bonjour soldat allemand!

Sont vous mon père? "



ANdy




Oh schnap !

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:48:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Lert:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By Lert:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By Lert:
For the pride of France...
|
|
|
|
|
|
V
We'll send the Germans to surrender for us
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/German_Army_Surrender.jpg




The only Phrench a German needs to know…

"bonjour soldat allemand!

Sont vous mon père? "



ANdy





Kind of like asking "Is it a German Shepard or an Alsacion(SP?)"
IBECWIII (InBeforeEuropeanCivilWar3)
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 1:14:13 PM EDT
No matter how hard they try, most Europeans simply cannot get away from
what basically amounts to a convoluted form of serfdom.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 1:38:16 PM EDT
Didn't one of the American States refuse to ratify the constitution until the other 12 embargoed it into joining the union?

What'll be funny is if some of them try to secede 80 years from now and the EU President claims they can't do that because the EU was founded to be a perpetual union...
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 1:47:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Didn't one of the American States refuse to ratify the constitution until the other 12 embargoed it into joining the union?

What'll be funny is if some of them try to secede 80 years from now and the EU President claims they can't do that because the EU was founded to be a perpetual union...



The EU has already thought of that. The constitution allows for succession, but the member states all get together and discuss it first. The leaving state doesn't get a seat at that table. I imagine the discussion will go something like this:

Successionist State (SS): It's been, well, not exactly fun, but we'd like to go now.
EU -1: Sure, we'll get together and discuss it.
SS: Don't we get a say?
EU: you've already had a say. Now its our turn. It wouldn't be fair otherwise.

10 years later

SS: Well,? Can we go?
EU: No. Unless you promise to give us all of your money, all of your natural resources, and allow us to base troops there just to make sure yu pay up. In 100 years, you can go.
SS: MOLON LABE!!!
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