Posted: 5/6/2011 8:50:34 PM EDT
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So yeah, apparently sim AR-15's shoot a much higher velocity round than the sim glocks. When a buddy says "i just got this new sim carbine that i would like to try out by shooting you above the knee"
DO NOT respond with "sure, those things dont hurt that bad anyway." 
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Dude! Put a warning in the title! Just how far above the knee was that? do u really wanna know? two or three inches, nothing that would be concealed with normal shorts on. Its kind of a close up which makes it harder to see my knee. I guess a 3 inch section of skin really grosses yall out. Im not particularly afraid of knees but whatever. |
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moral of the story is dont let your buddies shoot at you with sim guns for kicks.
The pistols never seemed to leave a wallop like that on me. They always bruise, and WILL make you bleed if they hit your nuckle or another hard bony area covered with skin, but "meat" strikes from pistols never messed me up that bad. on a side note, the sim gun AR-15 bolts are hella cool. They only cost 200 something dollars and drop right into any existing carbine and work great. I was really impressed with the simplicity of the design and how well it worked. |
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During training we had a guy who liked to shoot beyond the limits of the course. We were told for training if the bad guy goes down or drops the weapon to stop shooting. He decided that he needed to violate this safety rule. He would shoot too close, or take constant head shots (did this on every suspect whether or not deadly force was justified). Since this was training he got talked to several times (I know many might say suck it up or deal with it, but not my rules). He considered this a toy that he could do what he wanted to with. I was playing bad guy and he came into the room. I dropped my gun and he shot, then as I fell he shot again. When I was down he took another shot and this one went under the face mask (actually broke through the little breathing slits in the bottom of the face mask busting my lip and broke a tooth). That hurt like hell. These rounds are no joke.
Needless to say during the break someone noticed he had removed a towel he was using for groin protection (i guess to cheap to buy a cup) and it was his turn to be the bad guy. When our team when into the room he was standing there waving a gun and all four of us opened fired. Not one round missed the groin and we were all empty (10rnds each). He has been following the rules ever since. .. Karma is a bitch. 
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| We bought UTM guns and ammo last fall because of the price savings over Simunitions brand. Happened to send some guys to a RBT class over the winter where UTM guns were being used. The UTM rounds were penetrating multiple layers of clothing and even protective face shields in the cold. We've opted to sell the UTM and go with Simunitions brand because of this experience. |
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During training we had a guy who liked to shoot beyond the limits of the course. We were told for training if the bad guy goes down or drops the weapon to stop shooting. He decided that he needed to violate this safety rule. He would shoot too close, or take constant head shots (did this on every suspect whether or not deadly force was justified). Since this was training he got talked to several times (I know many might say suck it up or deal with it, but not my rules). He considered this a toy that he could do what he wanted to with. I was playing bad guy and he came into the room. I dropped my gun and he shot, then as I fell he shot again. When I was down he took another shot and this one went under the face mask (actually broke through the little breathing slits in the bottom of the face mask busting my lip and broke a tooth). That hurt like hell. These rounds are no joke. Needless to say during the break someone noticed he had removed a towel he was using for groin protection (i guess to cheap to buy a cup) and it was his turn to be the bad guy. When our team when into the room he was standing there waving a gun and all four of us opened fired. Not one round missed the groin and we were all empty (10rnds each). He has been following the rules ever since. .. Karma is a bitch. Although the payback sounds badass....the fact that this guy was allowed to get away with such behavior is utterly rediculous!!  When we train with sims, or any scenario based training, we treat it as real as possible....if u do something yer not justified to do, yer gonna get pulled aside and remediated....if the behavior continued, and it was obvious you were just fucking around, you'd probably get talked to first, after that you'd be sent home from training and written up!
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During training we had a guy who liked to shoot beyond the limits of the course. We were told for training if the bad guy goes down or drops the weapon to stop shooting. He decided that he needed to violate this safety rule. He would shoot too close, or take constant head shots (did this on every suspect whether or not deadly force was justified). Since this was training he got talked to several times (I know many might say suck it up or deal with it, but not my rules). He considered this a toy that he could do what he wanted to with. I was playing bad guy and he came into the room. I dropped my gun and he shot, then as I fell he shot again. When I was down he took another shot and this one went under the face mask (actually broke through the little breathing slits in the bottom of the face mask busting my lip and broke a tooth). That hurt like hell. These rounds are no joke. Needless to say during the break someone noticed he had removed a towel he was using for groin protection (i guess to cheap to buy a cup) and it was his turn to be the bad guy. When our team when into the room he was standing there waving a gun and all four of us opened fired. Not one round missed the groin and we were all empty (10rnds each). He has been following the rules ever since. .. Karma is a bitch. I have a problem with cops who delight at another persons suffering, i have a SERIOUS problem with cops that delight at harming or hindering other good cops. Seeing as how i would probably get fired and charged for beating that guys ass with a sim gun in a training environment after he caused me serious bodily injury by breaking a tooth, i think i would have just gone to a supervisor and file a written complaint. Explaining how you shot his nuts 30 times after he shot your lip would make both of yall look bad to a supervisor. Also where the fuck were yalls instructors while they were letting all of this happen? |
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Yeah - sounds like more than just "Officer MachoSim" were at fault there. (training cadre) The training staff failed as did other things. By the way we were the ones punished and not him. It cost us a paycheck each and a denial on workman's comp. He got a stern slap on the wrist. |
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One of our SWAT guys got his fingernail knocked off and his finger tip split to the first knuckle by a sim fired from an M4 at less than 5 feet. He startled the other guy by jumping out into the hallway and pointed a blank gun at him with his finger indexed. The guy with the sim focused on the gun when he fired, shooting the other guy in the tip of his index finger. Every time I've been shot in sims, I've been shot in the hands and never had it do much damage |
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One of our SWAT guys got his fingernail knocked off and his finger tip split to the first knuckle by a sim fired from an M4 at less than 5 feet. He startled the other guy by jumping out into the hallway and pointed a blank gun at him with his finger indexed. The guy with the sim focused on the gun when he fired, shooting the other guy in the tip of his index finger.
Every time I've been shot in sims, I've been shot in the hands and never had it do much damage your experience and the SWAT guy's is very consistent with sim training and actual gunfights. Most people focus on the threat (the gun) and direct their fire there while point shooting. I get shot in the hands alot to when doing sim gun and airsoft training. That being said, if you are the suspect/shooting dummy for a civilian home defense/tactical handgun class or something similar, expect to get lit up EVERYWHERE... |
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We learned a lot from our RBT course that we went to last fall. Previous to that we did a lot of the unrealistic scenario stuff that some of you are describing. The course taught us that we were setting our guys up for failure and how to employ the training more effectively. This springs week of RBT scenarios went a lot better than past eyars as a result. I suggest that if any of your agencies are going to use these things that your trainers attend a good reality based training class first.
That guy who was allowed to go through as a role player without proper safety gear and a lack of clear understanding of what his role as a role player/ student is is a liability to all of you training with him. |
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During training we had a guy who liked to shoot beyond the limits of the course. We were told for training if the bad guy goes down or drops the weapon to stop shooting. He decided that he needed to violate this safety rule. He would shoot too close, or take constant head shots (did this on every suspect whether or not deadly force was justified). Since this was training he got talked to several times (I know many might say suck it up or deal with it, but not my rules). He considered this a toy that he could do what he wanted to with. I was playing bad guy and he came into the room. I dropped my gun and he shot, then as I fell he shot again. When I was down he took another shot and this one went under the face mask (actually broke through the little breathing slits in the bottom of the face mask busting my lip and broke a tooth). That hurt like hell. These rounds are no joke. Needless to say during the break someone noticed he had removed a towel he was using for groin protection (i guess to cheap to buy a cup) and it was his turn to be the bad guy. When our team when into the room he was standing there waving a gun and all four of us opened fired. Not one round missed the groin and we were all empty (10rnds each). He has been following the rules ever since. .. Karma is a bitch. Although the payback sounds badass....the fact that this guy was allowed to get away with such behavior is utterly rediculous!! When we train with sims, or any scenario based training, we treat it as real as possible....if u do something yer not justified to do, yer gonna get pulled aside and remediated....if the behavior continued, and it was obvious you were just fucking around, you'd probably get talked to first, after that you'd be sent home from training and written up!agreed this is how we run our training too. |
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Reminds me when we got some kevlar flak jackets from DRMO. I was working with two or three of my troopers to see about their usefulness in sparring, training. I was slow punching, increasing the speed on each, with one of them who was wearing the jacket.
"Did that hurt?" and he answered no each time until about the 4th, 5th, or 6th. "No, but I felt your class ring on the last." Hence, one of the interesting stories, "titles" of my life, of how I have a bruised knuckle from punching some guy wearing a flak jacket. Oh, the crazy things we do when we are young. ____________________________________________________________ ("What do you mean, you didn't mean to kill him? You put your sword right through him!"––King of Swamp Castle, (w,stte), "Monty Python and the Holy Grail") |
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One of our SWAT guys got his fingernail knocked off and his finger tip split to the first knuckle by a sim fired from an M4 at less than 5 feet. He startled the other guy by jumping out into the hallway and pointed a blank gun at him with his finger indexed. The guy with the sim focused on the gun when he fired, shooting the other guy in the tip of his index finger.
Every time I've been shot in sims, I've been shot in the hands and never had it do much damage your experience and the SWAT guy's is very consistent with sim training and actual gunfights. Most people focus on the threat (the gun) and direct their fire there while point shooting. I get shot in the hands alot to when doing sim gun and airsoft training. That being said, if you are the suspect/shooting dummy for a civilian home defense/tactical handgun class or something similar, expect to get lit up EVERYWHERE... 
Also on the topic of paintballs...The guys from Southern Fried Stings..are freaking CRAZY. On a recent episode they were investigating a paintball field for excessive injuries. Well when players wandered in a "private area" of the fields they got lit up like "mini-gun" style to the face and everything. Jay(the lead P.I.) also got lit up. So he called a friend with a dog and they baited the "guards" of the cabin out of the area, and searched the cabin...they found illegal guns (grenades and SBRs, etc from the quick video shots) then called the cops and during the phone call the "2-3 bad guys" returned and opened up on the Southern Fried Stings crew with real guns and held them at gunpoint on their knees. Either the cops just happened to be in the area, or they hauled ass to the paintball field when the shots were heard on the phone because a few seconds after the crew got captured, the cops showed up, and contained the scene. Ended closing a big gun smuggling gig. |
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aftermath: http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae4/hkusp999/735761ed.jpg I thought i would keep the little red circle but i didnt expect to have a blue bruise around it for a week thats 3 inches in circumference..... Also, i tried to censor as much of my pasty knee for yall as possible.  I don't know if it is the lighting, or my eyes playing tricks on, but when I first saw this I thought it was a picture of the skin of your leg after being removed. |
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aftermath: http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae4/hkusp999/735761ed.jpg I thought i would keep the little red circle but i didnt expect to have a blue bruise around it for a week thats 3 inches in circumference..... Also, i tried to censor as much of my pasty knee for yall as possible. 
I don't know if it is the lighting, or my eyes playing tricks on, but when I first saw this I thought it was a picture of the skin of your leg after being removed. No its just a huge multi-colored bruise. The lighting sucked when i took the picture but its blueish under the impact point and its really yellow for several inched above the impact point. I was really surprised that such a small, light projectile could cause so much bruising.
Especially since i almost NEVER show bruises. It would typically take a 2x4 swung by barry bonds to give results this impressive. On a similar note, i have some awesome photos that i got at swat school of suspects that got way-layed by those 40mm less lethal wooden dowels a d stuff and those bruises are so massive and interesting looking that people were intrepreting them like they were roscharch inkblot tests. |
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We were doing some tactical training down south and I was the meth lab operator with a Beretta 92, the tac team was newly formed and was quite green. When they entered the door, I was profiled behind a chimney, they only saw my female "worker" and stood there.
First shot from me was the door man with a hit above the vest. Second person stood there and looked at him wondering what happened. Ok, second and third shot was arm and face shield (I'm purposely avoiding the unprotected areas). Third and rest finally got an idea that someone was shooting them and began looking for my skinny body. First round hits me in my dominant hand (Gloved), I drop gun, switch to other hand, make a leg shot on another person before getting hit in the shoulder while wearing a thick Carhartt jacket. I prone out with hands out and they come in, person 5 drops a round in each of my legs for good measure (bastard) and then I've got a 250# gorilla kneeling on my 120# broken body while being cuffed. We all had a great time, taught everyone a lot of great info and when finally get a chance to uncover my hits, they looked all like that and worse. The legs turned a great purple color for about a week. Oh well, it was fun and nobody was really hurt with the exceptions of a few bruised ego's. |
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One of our SWAT guys got his fingernail knocked off and his finger tip split to the first knuckle by a sim fired from an M4 at less than 5 feet. He startled the other guy by jumping out into the hallway and pointed a blank gun at him with his finger indexed. The guy with the sim focused on the gun when he fired, shooting the other guy in the tip of his index finger.
Every time I've been shot in sims, I've been shot in the hands and never had it do much damage your experience and the SWAT guy's is very consistent with sim training and actual gunfights. Most people focus on the threat (the gun) and direct their fire there while point shooting. I get shot in the hands alot to when doing sim gun and airsoft training. That being said, if you are the suspect/shooting dummy for a civilian home defense/tactical handgun class or something similar, expect to get lit up EVERYWHERE...
Also on the topic of paintballs...The guys from Southern Fried Stings..are freaking CRAZY. On a recent episode they were investigating a paintball field for excessive injuries. Well when players wandered in a "private area" of the fields they got lit up like "mini-gun" style to the face and everything. Jay(the lead P.I.) also got lit up. So he called a friend with a dog and they baited the "guards" of the cabin out of the area, and searched the cabin...they found illegal guns (grenades and SBRs, etc from the quick video shots) then called the cops and during the phone call the "2-3 bad guys" returned and opened up on the Southern Fried Stings crew with real guns and held them at gunpoint on their knees. Either the cops just happened to be in the area, or they hauled ass to the paintball field when the shots were heard on the phone because a few seconds after the crew got captured, the cops showed up, and contained the scene. Ended closing a big gun smuggling gig. I dunno if yer serious or not....but that show is freakin staged!! Its the same as "Operation Lipo Repo." 
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Quoted: Quoted: aftermath: http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae4/hkusp999/735761ed.jpg I thought i would keep the little red circle but i didnt expect to have a blue bruise around it for a week thats 3 inches in circumference..... Also, i tried to censor as much of my pasty knee for yall as possible. I don't know if it is the lighting, or my eyes playing tricks on, but when I first saw this I thought it was a picture of the skin of your leg after being removed. Me too. |
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So yeah, apparently sim AR-15's shoot a much higher velocity round than the sim glocks. When a buddy says "i just got this new sim carbine that i would like to try out by shooting you above the knee" DO NOT respond with "sure, those things dont hurt that bad anyway."
http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae4/hkusp999/d838e904.jpg I've had some dandy ones with the rifles....real up close shots, pretty good blood draw on them. Still have scars from several years back. |