Should I or should I not......Structured wiring?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Should I or should I not......Structured wiring?

Posted: 7/30/2005 4:23:22 PM EDT

I'm tempted to install structured wiring in my home, 2700sq.ft., 5 bedrooms + family room. Has anybody here installed it themselves before? How difficult was it? Any suggestions?

Please stop me

.!

Posted: 7/30/2005 4:30:51 PM EDT

[#1]

Don't do it.

I'd go wireless before I opened up walls.

eta: I have not run wires into my walls, but
I have been drywalling due to plumbing work
and it is a MAJOR PITA. No worth it, IMHO.

Posted: 7/30/2005 4:32:52 PM EDT

[#2]

Fish tape, patience, and a willingness to patch holes where you need to punch through to round a corner, and about 30 hours: $500

Wireless router: 30 minutes and $100

Posted: 7/30/2005 4:41:24 PM EDT

[#3]

My reason was more along the lines of running SAT. TV and CCTV. Even though my house was built in 1997, only the family room and one bedroom have coaxal(sp) cable.

Posted: 7/30/2005 4:58:08 PM EDT

[#4]

yes, do it.

If you have attic or basement access, no problem. I have done it plenty of times. At least two coax cables. I use three in case of security cameras or extra satalite or cable.

One flex bit, fish tape and old work low voltage boxes.

Good luck.

Posted: 7/30/2005 5:25:24 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
yes, do it.

If you have attic or basement access, no problem. I have done it plenty of times. At least two coax cables. I use three in case of security cameras or extra satalite or cable.

One flex bit, fish tape and old work low voltage boxes.

Good luck.

Yes, I have plenty of room in the attic to get around. No crawl space. I knew to run two coax from the box to each room, never thought of the third

. Whats a flex bit? I'll guess a flexable bit, is that to get in tight spaces?

Posted: 7/30/2005 5:58:45 PM EDT

[#6]

If you are doing this on a new house, might as well get the multi-cable bundle and do it right.

2 coax, 2 Cat5e, 1 fiber. I forget how much it is a foot, but it is spiral bound together with monofilament, the price is spendy, but you would have "it all" then for the future (hence the fiber), when 100Mbit Ethernet is "old school" (only 15 years ago, 10Mbit was screaming fast over 4Mbit Token Ring

)

Posted: 7/30/2005 6:26:30 PM EDT

[#7]

Wireless is easier, but not nearly as reliable. I've used Linksys, D-Link, NetGear, and Apple 802.11 equipment, and they're all crap. They lock-up and require power cycling. The range is horrible and changes depending on the weather or other factors you'll never figure-out. The latency is also bad.

I went wireless to an office that's 15 feet from the access point, and it had trouble about every 24 hours or so. I replaced the access point nine times with four different brands, and it still never worked well enough. I spent an afternoon running a cable and have not had a problem since. As another example, we've got about two dozen customers that first went wireless but later gave-up and moved to wired Ethernet. It just works better, and every one of them had so many problems with wireless that they spent a lot of money to replace it. I assume someone makes high-end 802.11 equipment that works, but I haven't seen them yet.

The consumer wireless ethernet equipment just isn't ready for primetime. I'd run a wire. Wired protocols are always going to be faster.z

Posted: 7/30/2005 6:44:44 PM EDT

[#8]

Run the wires, you will be glad you did once your network is up and running.

It is not as difficult as it looks, some wires can be run behind mouldings and baseboards. Interior walls without insulation is easy. Job is made easier with a "toner" and amp, these are wire tools that put a tone on the wire so you can find it even behind sheetrock.

A "glo-rod" is my favorite fish tool. It is a 3/16 inch X 6 foot flex fiberglass rod. Makes pulling and pushing wire a snap.

Posted: 7/30/2005 6:47:06 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Run the wires, you will be glad you did once your network is up and running.

It is not as difficult as it looks, some wires can be run behind mouldings and baseboards. Interior walls without insulation is easy. Job is made easier with a "toner" and amp, these are wire tools that put a tone on the wire so you can find it even behind sheetrock.

A "glo-rod" is my favorite fish tool. It is a 3/16 inch X 6 foot flex fiberglass rod. Makes pulling and pushing wire a snap.

Fluke has a new toner out that puts a higher powered digital tone on the wire, so you can find them within about 4 feet, then flip it to "less sensitive" and narrow it down to the pair, it also has a level meter on the probe, in addition to audio. (Set is like $120, or $180 if you want the "Service" option). Also does wiremaps. Overall the nifty-est "All In One Tool" for networking.

ETA: "Service" option is an RJ-45 jack where you plug a wire in, it will tell you 1 or 2 phone lines (and polarity) or Ethernet (if on an active hub/switch)!

Posted: 7/30/2005 6:53:25 PM EDT

[#10]

Link for the Fluke (I have one, it ROCKS!)

www.flukenetworks.com/us/LAN/Handheld+Testers/IntelliTone/Overview.htm

Posted: 7/30/2005 7:57:25 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Run the wires, you will be glad you did once your network is up and running.

It is not as difficult as it looks, some wires can be run behind mouldings and baseboards. Interior walls without insulation is easy. Job is made easier with a "toner" and amp, these are wire tools that put a tone on the wire so you can find it even behind sheetrock.

A "glo-rod" is my favorite fish tool. It is a 3/16 inch X 6 foot flex fiberglass rod. Makes pulling and pushing wire a snap.

Fluke has a new toner out that puts a higher powered digital tone on the wire, so you can find them within about 4 feet, then flip it to "less sensitive" and narrow it down to the pair, it also has a level meter on the probe, in addition to audio. (Set is like $120, or $180 if you want the "Service" option). Also does wiremaps. Overall the nifty-est "All In One Tool" for networking.

ETA: "Service" option is an RJ-45 jack where you plug a wire in, it will tell you 1 or 2 phone lines (and polarity) or Ethernet (if on an active hub/switch)!

Thanks for the tips, never heard of the Fluke, maybe I'll pick one up before I start this adventure.

Posted: 7/30/2005 8:05:31 PM EDT

[#12]

Actaully the Fluke NetTool is the second best all in one tool for networking but it's 2K (the OneTouch scanner being number 1 in my book - around 15K if I remember)

and anyone that truly thinks wireless (802.11g stuff) isn't "ready" well

run the wires - it'll be a PITA but it's worth it

Add access points so you can surf ARF on the throne

Edit : for a basic toner the Fluke is hard to beat and yeah I've got 2 of them at the office

Posted: 7/30/2005 8:25:19 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Actaully the Fluke NetTool is the second best all in one tool for networking but it's 2K (the OneTouch scanner being number 1 in my book - around 15K if I remember)

and anyone that truly thinks wireless (802.11g stuff) isn't "ready" well

run the wires - it'll be a PITA but it's worth it

Add access points so you can surf ARF on the throne

Edit : for a basic toner the Fluke is hard to beat and yeah I've got 2 of them at the office

I will correct myself: "Niftiest Network Wiring tool for under $200"

I like the one touch! Little bit of overkill for a one time use home install though.

Otherwise try the new model: www.flukenetworks.com/us/Cabling/Copper+Cabling/DTX+Cable+Analyzer/Overview.htm

Posted: 7/30/2005 8:33:32 PM EDT

[#14]

Seems more of Cable Cert tool than general purpose network tool

their Toners are GREAT though

Their Link Runner is good for about 500 and has more features than toning

I really think the Net Tool Pro is a field tech's best frind though

I doubt I can expense this but I'd love to try www.flukenetworks.com/us/LAN/Handheld+Testers/OptiView/Overview.htm

last edit : I ran around the office the day I got Fluke's net toner and played the rest of the day - it's a VERY impressive toner

Posted: 7/30/2005 8:45:25 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Seems more of Cable Cert tool than general purpose network tool

their Toners are GREAT though

Their Link Runner is good for about 500 and has more features than toning

I really think the Net Tool Pro is a field tech's best frind though

I doubt I can expense this but I'd love to try www.flukenetworks.com/us/LAN/Handheld+Testers/OptiView/Overview.htm

last edit : I ran around the office the day I got Fluke's net toner and played the rest of the day - it's a VERY impressive toner

I think that is a bit overkill for a guy wiring his house, but I think I would like one!

The high end line analyzer (copper/fiber, Level IV) I liked above is $8,000

The OptiView is a scant $3,000!

Posted: 7/30/2005 10:10:39 PM EDT

[#16]

If you're drilling down from an attic, you won't need a flexbit, just a long 5/8" or 3/4" bit.

Irwin Speedbor at Home Depot

Of course, you'll only be able to get wire into internal walls when coming in from the top, so keep that in mind. I second the use of Glo-Rods for fishing cable.

-Troy

Posted: 7/30/2005 10:48:50 PM EDT

[#17]

I just ran cat5e drops to all of the rooms, and one living room this summer (for a home theater PC I want to get in there). Bought a Pro lookin' 16 port switch on ebay and put in up in the rafters of my garage. From there I ran a line to my wireless router. For those that have WIFI instead of cutting holes, the bandwidth limit on even an 802.11G connection will not stream multiple mp3's and divx files at an acceptable rate.

Here is something that made things so much easier!

cgi.ebay.com/10-Leviton-Quickport-Mounting-Brackets-CO224-CP_W0QQitemZ5793463994QQcategoryZ94878QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I got them at homedepot, and they carry 2 gang mounts too!

Other things that made it easier were....

1. Stud Finder (argh! did I hate those phantom blocks of 2x4 I ran into a couple of times)

2. Leviton Quickport modules (I also installed some speaker banana plugs, and a couple of phone jacks)

3. Network terminator (I used a plastic cheap one that came with the quickports and a razor blade to clean up the extra cable. If I had bought an all in one professional terminator, I could have saved a few cuts from going cheap on this.

When your all done, the sense of accomplishment is unreal.

Posted: 7/30/2005 11:45:18 PM EDT

[#18]

I went from wired, across the floor not through the walls and I am having no problems at all. Even have range out to my detatched garage/shop.

Posted: 7/31/2005 10:57:42 AM EDT

[#19]

Do It! I have not been happier with any other decision that I made in building my new house than in putting in a S#@!-Ton of Wiring. Everyday I pat myself on the back for going ahead and doing it. Your situation with the walls already closed is more difficult, but the wiring still pays for itself in no time. The flexibility, sano look (no wires draped all over the place from room to room), and reliability are all great. Here's what my closet looked like when I finished roughing-in the wires:

http://members.cox.net/thomhamilton/Closet2.jpg

I pulled speaker wire, RG6 Quad Shield Coax, and Cat5e all over the place. So far I haven't run into a single occasion where the wiring has caused problems, and it has certainly made life easier.

As to wireless though, Cisco Aironet equipment will eliminate most of the gremlins from 802.11 A/B/G, albeit at a price!

Futuristic

Posted: 7/31/2005 11:17:27 AM EDT

[#20]

Definately get the fish-stix! They will come in handy lots of times.

As far as dropping lines from the attic to the rooms below, the BEST (well, usually) way to fish uninsulated interior walls is to cut the hole in the wall, drill a hole from above with a paddle bit, and drop a sash chain.

Posted: 7/31/2005 12:12:12 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Do It! I have not been happier with any other decision that I made in building my new house than in putting in a S#@!-Ton of Wiring. Everyday I pat myself on the back for going ahead and doing it. Your situation with the walls already closed is more difficult, but the wiring still pays for itself in no time. The flexibility, sano look (no wires draped all over the place from room to room), and reliability are all great. Here's what my closet looked like when I finished roughing-in the wires:

members.cox.net/thomhamilton/Closet2.jpg

I pulled speaker wire, RG6 Quad Shield Coax, and Cat5e all over the place. So far I haven't run into a single occasion where the wiring has caused problems, and it has certainly made life easier.

As to wireless though, Cisco Aironet equipment will eliminate most of the gremlins from 802.11 A/B/G, albeit at a price!

Futuristic

I wish my walls were open!

Did you do this yourself? Where did you get your cableing from?

The most difficult part, I think, will be drilling down outside walls, because I don't have much room for a drill. You people convinced my to go ahead with the project

. I'm not in any rush, so I'm going to start ordering/picking up tools and equipment. I'll get those glo-rods too.

Posted: 7/31/2005 12:16:42 PM EDT

[#22]

I used to help my company do this. If I were building a house there is no way I would not do it. It is 1000 times easier to add all the cabeling when the house is just framed. You can allways run the cable and have other people terminate it.

I would recomend against using the All in One cable that as tv phone and data. This is very hard to work with. We used to use it and then went to seperate cables for each of the 3.

MAKE SURE EVERYTHINGIS LABELED.

Where in FL are you? I am near Coaco beach and I would help in exchange for things that go boom. IM me if you want help.

Posted: 7/31/2005 12:25:22 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Wireless is easier, but not nearly as reliable. I've used Linksys, D-Link, NetGear, and Apple 802.11 equipment, and they're all crap. They lock-up and require power cycling. The range is horrible and changes depending on the weather or other factors you'll never figure-out. The latency is also bad.

I went wireless to an office that's 15 feet from the access point, and it had trouble about every 24 hours or so. I replaced the access point nine times with four different brands, and it still never worked well enough. I spent an afternoon running a cable and have not had a problem since. As another example, we've got about two dozen customers that first went wireless but later gave-up and moved to wired Ethernet. It just works better, and every one of them had so many problems with wireless that they spent a lot of money to replace it. I assume someone makes high-end 802.11 equipment that works, but I haven't seen them yet.

The consumer wireless ethernet equipment just isn't ready for primetime. I'd run a wire. Wired protocols are always going to be faster.z

My cheapo Linksys wireless cable gateway has been up over 9 months now with no outages.
Maybe you should read the manuals or something, your experience is certainly not typical.
Latency in a wireless access point? Uhhhhhhhhhh OK.........

Posted: 7/31/2005 12:41:35 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Wireless is easier, but not nearly as reliable. I've used Linksys, D-Link, NetGear, and Apple 802.11 equipment, and they're all crap. They lock-up and require power cycling. The range is horrible and changes depending on the weather or other factors you'll never figure-out. The latency is also bad.

I have a Cisco Aironet 350 AP, and it only gets re-booted when the power fails. Never a problem, and the radio kicks ass.

It is the only AP I have ever used that didn't slow way down when you enabled WEP.

Of course, I used to work there, so I got it for the employee discount, not the $1200 they were going for.

Geoff

Posted: 7/31/2005 1:29:49 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
I used to help my company do this. If I were building a house there is no way I would not do it. It is 1000 times easier to add all the cabeling when the house is just framed. You can allways run the cable and have other people terminate it.

I would recomend against using the All in One cable that as tv phone and data. This is very hard to work with. We used to use it and then went to seperate cables for each of the 3.

MAKE SURE EVERYTHINGIS LABELED.

Where in FL are you? I am near Coaco beach and I would help in exchange for things that go boom. IM me if you want help.

Your not accepting IM's

Posted: 7/31/2005 2:27:26 PM EDT

[#26]

If you are going to do it, I HIGHLY recommend a Proper Spring loaded punchdown tool ($60), a ratcheting RJ-45 Connector tool ($60), and a toner ($180) (discussed above, also does wiremap verification).

After banging your head and re-doing connections, you would have wished you spent the money at the outset.

Posted: 7/31/2005 2:37:26 PM EDT

[#27]

I did my house here recently. It's worth it.

I came up with a pretty slick solution for accurately drilling UP into walls from the basement. Cut the hole out where you want the box to go. Drive a nail straight through the carpet into the floor, in front of the hole. Measurure from the nail into the hole in the wall. Head down into the basement and measure back from the nail. Drill up.

Works like a charm. And unless you use a friggin' HUGE nail, you'll never see the hole in the carpet.

Posted: 7/31/2005 2:53:39 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I did my house here recently. It's worth it.

I came up with a pretty slick solution for accurately drilling UP into walls from the basement. Cut the hole out where you want the box to go. Drive a nail straight through the carpet into the floor, in front of the hole. Measurure from the nail into the hole in the wall. Head down into the basement and measure back from the nail. Drill up.

Works like a charm. And unless you use a friggin' HUGE nail, you'll never see the hole in the carpet.

Excellent Idea!

(until you have a fully finished basement...)

Posted: 7/31/2005 3:04:46 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I did my house here recently. It's worth it.

I came up with a pretty slick solution for accurately drilling UP into walls from the basement. Cut the hole out where you want the box to go. Drive a nail straight through the carpet into the floor, in front of the hole. Measurure from the nail into the hole in the wall. Head down into the basement and measure back from the nail. Drill up.

Works like a charm. And unless you use a friggin' HUGE nail, you'll never see the hole in the carpet.

Excellent Idea!

(until you have a fully finished basement...)

Oh yeah. If you finished your basement, you're fooked.

Posted: 7/31/2005 3:11:50 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I did my house here recently. It's worth it.

I came up with a pretty slick solution for accurately drilling UP into walls from the basement. Cut the hole out where you want the box to go. Drive a nail straight through the carpet into the floor, in front of the hole. Measurure from the nail into the hole in the wall. Head down into the basement and measure back from the nail. Drill up.

Works like a charm. And unless you use a friggin' HUGE nail, you'll never see the hole in the carpet.

Excellent Idea!

(until you have a fully finished basement...)

Oh yeah. If you finished your basement, you're fooked.

I installed surround sound and network wiring in the "basement family room" of a very spendy house. Recessed lighting all in the ceiling (steel fishtape, uhhh, maybe not).

Had to drill about 6 "bend this corner holes", AC/Stud detector was a Good Friend. Got it done, after minor patching over the (relatively new basement, he had paint left), you would never know it, but that is the first and last time I am wiring a finished house.

Posted: 7/31/2005 3:12:37 PM EDT

[#31]

I recommend carefully planning ahead of time. I actually spent in excess of 6 months planning the wiring for my new house. (Obviously not 24/7 but the hours really added up)

Here are some notes:

1. Good Tools. Real 110 Punchdown tool, good toner/sniffer, good coax crimper, good RJ crimper (if needed, I didn't put on a single RJ end in my wiring scheme, only jacks with 110 connections on the back), good flashlights, good drill bits, Glo-Rods AND a Fish Tape (there are times when only the Tape will work in a finished house)

2. Plan out every single wire on a clean sheet of paper (dead tree or digital) before you start

3. Figure out exactly what you are trying to accomplish and how many wires need to go from ___ to ___ to get that job done.

4. If you can, pick a central location to serve as a Wiring Closet for most of the wires to terminate to. I even have my Stereo, Cable Box, DVD, ReplayTV/Tivo, Router, Switch, etc. all located in my closet. Couple that with a uber programmable remote (MX500) and InfraRed repeaters and I have one remote, a TV, and speakers in my living room. That is all. Very sano, and very affordable.

e.g.http://members.cox.net/thomhamilton/Closet5.jpg

Those cover the high points. Oh, here is a list of sources that I found handy:

http://www.partsexpress.com
http://www.smarthome.com
http://www.smarthomeusa.com
http://www.hometech.com
http://www.sescodatasystems.com (cheap Cat5e Wall Jack Inserts for Leviton WallPlates)

Oops, forgot the ultimate source of information:

http://www.avsforum.com

Good Luck!

Futuristic

Posted: 7/31/2005 3:17:22 PM EDT

[#32]

Palmer, I sent an IM, I have a spare one of These from when I first started out (it is in a hardcase instead of a softcase, but same tools).

If you want to borrow for your project and save a few hundred for one time use tools, let me know! (just get it back to me so I can loan it out again!)

Posted: 7/31/2005 6:57:19 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Palmer, I sent an IM, I have a spare one of These from when I first started out (it is in a hardcase instead of a softcase, but same tools).

If you want to borrow for your project and save a few hundred for one time use tools, let me know! (just get it back to me so I can loan it out again!)

Brass is the man! Letting borrow $500.00 worth of tools! This project is gonna be a piece of cake............well maybe not, but I'll have better tools to work with

.

Posted: 8/1/2005 5:21:25 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
I did my house here recently. It's worth it.

I came up with a pretty slick solution for accurately drilling UP into walls from the basement. Cut the hole out where you want the box to go. Drive a nail straight through the carpet into the floor, in front of the hole. Measurure from the nail into the hole in the wall. Head down into the basement and measure back from the nail. Drill up.

Works like a charm. And unless you use a friggin' HUGE nail, you'll never see the hole in the carpet.

You didn't invent that.
I did!

No, seriously, everybody does that. It's better to have a little nail hole in the floor than to accidentally drill through the middle of your floor!!!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Should I or should I not......Structured wiring?

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