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Ahh, Okay. I guess I need to find that G23 I bought years ago, I'm sure it's around somewhere
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The data is obviously cherry picked. The slowest 9mm loads and the slowest 10mm loads to boot.
If it’s not a 200 grain 10mm load cruising along at 1,200-1,250 FPS than I know it’s utter trash as “data”. The 40 can’t dream of doing what the Glorious Centimeter does. |
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Quoted: I carry a 40 S&W on duty. I mostly carry a Glock 19 off duty, but sometimes I carry my Colt Commander .45 acp. I feel confident with the capabilities of all three. That being said, I have seen a man that was killed by a fellow officer and I have personally killed a whitetail (through the shoulder) with one of those rounds. Both of those rounds were 40 S&W. Both stops were instantaneous. The people that discount the lethality of the 40 S&W have no clue as to what they are talking about. View Quote Nobody discounts the lethality of 40 SW. |
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Curious.....
How many of you have actually used a 9mm, .40cal, or .45cal in a real life shooting, and have some actual experience with any of these calibers???? For those that have (which will be almost none) what ammo were you using, against what barriers, and what was the outcome??? |
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Quoted: Curious..... How many of you have actually used a 9mm, .40cal, or .45cal in a real life shooting, and have some actual experience with any of these calibers???? For those that have (which will be almost none) what ammo were you using, against what barriers, and what was the outcome??? View Quote Does it matter? Would be the literal definition of an anecdote. Interpreting FBI test data is much more relevant than recalling the time you shot something. |
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At least .40 still made the list. .357 sig has become a historical footnote like 4WS or quadrophonic stereos.
But seriously, why the different weight bullets? |
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Quoted: Latest edition of Guns & Ammo Handguns magazine: Muzzle Energy. Recoil Factor 9mm 332 (115 grain) 0.65 .40SW. 506 (165 grain) 0.74 10mm. 523 (175 grain) 0.96 .45ACP. 411 (185 grain) 0.93 The .40S&W looks like it spanks them. Yep, even 10mm, with 9mm recoil. View Quote The .40S&W looks like it spanks them. Yep, even 10mm, with 9mm recoil. What? It sits between 9mm and 10mm in energy, but is only as close as it is because it's compared to the 'low recoil' version of 10mm - the very thing 40SW was designed to replace |
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I wouldn't want to be shot by any of those, but the .40 haters would say they'd take one in the face to prove a point.
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Quoted: https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/41094713.jpg Hell YES!!!! Bought a LOT of the HST back when it cost less than a Kidney! M&P .40 beater that I won't weep over if I get it dirty, muddy, dusty, wet, frozen or whatever. & I have a 9mm Threaded Conversion barrel with some 9mm mags for those times if 9mm is all there is... BIGGER_HAMMER View Quote Yup, I got a case of the HST for $300. Wish I'd bought a few. Between my S&W and Glock 22 I have a lifetime supply of defensive ammo as it is. No 9mm conversion for me...I have a shitload of 9mms as it is. |
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Quoted: Latest edition of Guns & Ammo Handguns magazine: Muzzle Energy. Recoil Factor 9mm 332 (115 grain) 0.65 .40SW. 506 (165 grain) 0.74 10mm. 523 (175 grain) 0.96 .45ACP. 411 (185 grain) 0.93 The .40S&W looks like it spanks them. Yep, even 10mm, with 9mm recoil. View Quote Wtf Where you getting 175 grain 10mm? Who shoots 165 grain 40? I shoot 180grain 40s and 200 grain 10mm |
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Quoted: I like them all. .45 has always been the smoothest for me, more of a straight backward thump than a snappy flip. With that said, I carry a G19. View Quote Yep. I am a fan of all four, with 10mm being my least favorite. I happen to prefer .40 or 9mm but it's basically a tie for me. Liberty .40 ammo at 2000fps is a mean little round. |
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Who even reads those rags anymore?
Next issue: 270 vs 30-06 ! |
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One thing that the .40 Smith & Wesson has in its favor: it's a high pressure round.
It does much better than the others a shorter barrel lengths. |
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Everyone talking smack about how much more effective 9mm is while cops and federal agents are laying out scumbags with .40 all day.
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Still carrying my G22.
All the cops had them when I bought it, never had a reason to switch. Its a good gun in a good caliber. |
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Quoted: Everyone talking smack about how much more effective 9mm is while cops and federal agents are laying out scumbags with .40 all day. View Quote I agree. But I think the 9mm does shine for ccw type guns for civilians such as a Glock 43 or sig 365 and that is why certain people love the 9mm. Not everyone is going to carry a full-size pistol always. But if we are comparing a Glock 17 to a Glock 22, it’s the same damn thing really. A little more power with the .40 at the cost of two rounds. We all know shot placement is way more important than 9mm vs .40 bullets. If you can shoot a 9 better, go for it. But the .40 gets it done as well. Plenty of cops used it to get home safe. I don’t get caught up in what the fbi decides, how much faster my splits are with one vs the other, loss of two rounds in capacity, or any of the other stuff that at the end of the day is not as important as getting hits on target. Practice with what you have to work with and enjoy your choice of pistol caliber. |
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Quoted: Everyone talking smack about how much more effective 9mm is while cops and federal agents are laying out scumbags with .40 all day. View Quote FBI switched to 9mm and cops across the nation, including every agency local to me are switching to 9mm. .40 is a decent round, but there is no plus side over 9mm with current offerings |
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In full sized guns I shoot 9mm slightly better than .40, and slightly worse than .45 out of a 1911.
And I shoot 155gr-165gr out a .40. To me 180gr is. 45 territory. |
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I have multiple pistols in .40. I have an XD-S mod2 in 40. Those are kinda oddball.
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The reason .40 became popular was because the FBI developed it and fielded it. If they did it it must be awesome. Everyone bought .40’s.
Then some years ago they put out a report that modern 9mm cartridges are awesome so they settled on one and fielded it. If they did it it must be awesome. Everyone dumped their 40’s and bought 9’s. .40 is a great self defense round 9mm is a great self defense round 45 is a great self defense round 10mm kicks ass and destroys things Pick your favorite, learn to shoot it well, and stock up on ammo. Quit listening to the FBI’s justifications for switching caliber and platform. |
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Quoted: That's an underpowered 9mm load they used. What velocity are they claiming for it? 950fps? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Latest edition of Guns & Ammo Handguns magazine: Muzzle Energy. Recoil Factor 9mm 332 (115 grain) 0.65 .40SW. 506 (165 grain) 0.74 10mm. 523 (175 grain) 0.96 .45ACP. 411 (185 grain) 0.93 The .40S&W looks like it spanks them. Yep, even 10mm, with 9mm recoil. Nope, with those numbers velocity would have be 1,150 fps. That’s about right for 9mm. I know it’s shocking for the haters, but .40 has a considerably more energy than 9mm. You only get over 400 fpe with 9mm when using +p or +p+ loads. Standard loads are weak by comparison. .40 is a stout cartridge and very capable. Don’t let all the irrational hate cloud the facts. |
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In every single gunfight I've been in, the .40 has performed just as well as any other caliber I own.
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Numbers, wonderful numbers. Don't need a gun, just show them the numbers.
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Quoted: Curious..... How many of you have actually used a 9mm, .40cal, or .45cal in a real life shooting, and have some actual experience with any of these calibers???? For those that have (which will be almost none) what ammo were you using, against what barriers, and what was the outcome??? View Quote 9mm 124 gn rangers. He was wearing a T shirt and he is dead. Would not have mattered |
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So now we like the FBI. They are liars and crooks. Fuck them with a t post.
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Quoted: OP has never shot a gun before. View Quote You funny. I have 3 handguns in .40. Two are S&W M&Ps with Apex triggers. I don't own a 9. FBI went with 9 this last go round for a variety of reasons. 1. Faster follow-up (slightly less recoil) 2. More mag capacity, usually about 2 rounds (because of misses) 3. 9mm oh so barely passed the FBI protocol (penetration thru glass, plywood, clothing, etc.) |
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I don't think anyone is going to argue that round for round, .40 is more powerful in standard loadings than either 9mm or .45. Math works that way and it's just a fact. 10mm of course is superior in every respect to all of the above. The question becomes is it enough of a difference to make a difference. I say it is in some cases.
We have about 3 shootings a year in our county. Over the last 10 years I've noted that those suspects shot with 9mm required more shots to stop them than those shot with .40. Not many more, maybe one or two, but more. I know there are many factors involved but it has been pretty consistent over a long time. We however shoot many many deer at the side of the road. Average about 3 shots to dispatch with 9mm vs usually 1 shot with .40 or .45. 10mm also, but I only know of one deer with 10mm and it was a 1 shot DRT. Now, that being said, those shooting 9mm tend to shoot tighter groups than those shooting real pistols. I'm not talking laser vs shotgun, but even in myself It is noticeable that my 9mm groups are smaller with like pistols. I have 9mm and .40 barrels for my Sigs and my 9mm groups are consistently about 1/3rd smaller. This seems consistent at the range when instructing other deputies. Those with 9s tend to shoot smaller groups at qualification. I would however note that those groups are probably not smaller enough to make a difference in a real fight. Where the 9mm does however shine is in capacity. Again, using my Sig p226 as an example, I have 12rd .40 mags x3+1. In 9mm I have 18rd x3 +1. That gives me the equivalent of a 4th mag on my duty belt. While the ammo is less powerful, I have more of it in a package that allows me to shoot tighter groups. This may be less important on road patrol where a suspect is more likely to be isolated and not tightly packed into a crowd. I am however assigned to a school district. An active threat is highly likely to be in a crowd and I have an extremely low probability of getting to my cruiser to retrieve my long gun in an emergency. This thread is timely as I was making an observation yesterday after shooting three of my pistols back to back. I made the mistake of shooting best mm first. G40 mos, very satisfying, Hammer of the gods Sig 229, sorta good, maybe not thor's hammer but at least a lightning bolt or something. Sig 226, meh, felt sort of like Captain America before the bio engineering. |
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