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Playing Devil's Advocate, laws in Europe are much less restrictive than the US. England has a consent age of 16, Netherlands has one of 14. Neither seems to have any sort of noticeable problem with those laws.

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[url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,49779,00.html[/url]

Most parents don't want their children having sex, hoping they'll abstain until their older. But now, a new book not yet released says that may be a bad thing. In Harmful to Minors: The Perils of Protecting Children From Sex, it's author, Judith Levine, says parents should recognize their children as sexual beings and that in some instances, sex between adults and minors may actually be a good thing. As you may expect this has parents around the country in a uproar.

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Rome is burning and I am not sure we can put out the flames.

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I may have reached my limit of disgust with this nation.

Sgtar15

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I don't remember which member here said this but it wasn't too long ago, maybe a month or two, it was during a conversation about how homosexuality is being promoted by the media and he warned that the next taboo or perversion to be promoted would be sex with children.

Prophetic indeed.

Rome is burning and I am not sure we can put out the flames.

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Playing Devil's Advocate, laws in Europe are much less restrictive than the US. England has a consent age of 16, Netherlands has one of 14. Neither seems to have any sort of noticeable problem with those laws.

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Playing Devil's Advocate, laws in Europe are much less restrictive than the US. England has a consent age of 16, Netherlands has one of 14. Neither seems to have any sort of noticeable problem with those laws.

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Playing Devil's Advocate, laws in Europe are much less restrictive than the US. England has a consent age of 16, Netherlands has one of 14. Neither seems to have any sort of noticeable problem with those laws.

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It was only in the last century here in America (and elsewhere) that marriage between very young teenagers was extremely common.

I think my grandmother was 14 when she married. I'm sure others here have ancestors married at similar ages.

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It was only in the last century here in America (and elsewhere) that marriage between very young teenagers was extremely common.

I think my grandmother was 14 when she married. I'm sure others here have ancestors married at similar ages.

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Did anyone receive an email about this thread from someone who seems to be Blaze of Glory?

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Why am I getting the impression that Judith Levine likes young boys?

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But if you saw her picture I think you'd understand she isn't interested in males of any age. But I bet a nice young brownie scout would really perk her and her friend Paula Poundstone right up.

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In the history of American debauchery since the sixties...

1st came women's lib and free love. ('60s)

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Personally, I kinda liked that free love era of the '60s and early '70s. Ya hadda be there.

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The age of consent varies greatly.  In many countries, it is set by the national law.  In the United States, it is a matter of state law.  See where your "favorite" country or your state stands:

[url=http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm]Age of Consent[/url]

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How come when I said we should break this country up people flamed me but now rn45 is suggesting the same thing and it's ok?

I've been saying this forever, our country is too politically diverse to remain as one nation. There are too many groups of people with diametrically opposed points of view toward basic human things like morality and personal responsibility. There are two ways of resolving this, either we split up, or we'll have to turn to an empire like Rome did and have a dictator decide all issues. There's no way a representative government can respresent such ideologically different groups of people. The foundation behind the nation-state is the common ground between the various groups of people in the nation.

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No, I didn't miss the point. I suppose you were around back 100 years ago so you know the difference in maturity levels. Did you know that many cultures have different attitudes about age of consent? And some of them don't have MTV?

If you're going to comment on social issues then we should all be aware that you only consider what is your own personal experience as seen through your own subjective filter. And, I do appreciate your veiwpoint.

I know I cannot say what people were like generations ago, or in different parts of the world. There is, however, all types of variation throughout human history and we only know intimately less than 10 decades of experience.

That children under 16 engage in sex is not shocking, nor is it necessarily wrong either.

Pop Stand: What's 'Harmful to Minors'? Secrecy and shame
Kristin Tillotson


Published Apr 15, 2002
Warning: This column is about kids and sex. If you'd like to call and voice your outrage before reading it, please press 9 at the prompt. This will signal that I can return the favor by publicly assessing your complaint before I listen to it.

Over the past two weeks, just such a rush to judgment has given the kind of publicity most authors only dream of to the book "Harmful to Minors: The Perils of Protecting Kids From Sex," by New York journalist and activist Judith Levine. A month before it even will be for sale, the book has drawn fire from sources including a national association called Concerned Women for America and state House Majority Leader Tim Pawlenty (R-Eagan), who called it "outrageous" and an "endorsement of child molestation."

Levine, her book and its publisher, the University of Minnesota Press, were condemned by people who had not yet read a word -- written by her, at least. And why not? Acting on blind wrath worked for the people who announced that fatwa against Salman Rushdie.

I've read the entire book, talked with Levine and weighed the criticism. My conclusion: Most of the outrage concerns what the book is not about -- the championing of pedophilia and luring young innocents into lives of wanton sex with anyone who'll have them. What the book is primarily about:

• Debunking the exaggerated threats of kidnapping, child pornography and pedophilia as epidemics from which no family is safe.

• Looking at how children in America, especially girls, are made to feel ashamed about sexual desire and are denied the information necessary to deal with it in a healthy way.

"With children and teens, we have to balance our respect for their own perceptions with our obligation, as adults, to know better," Levine said during a phone interview earlier this week. "And as they grow, that balance changes."

Uh-huh. Those are the words of a depraved madwoman, all right. Here are some more, from the book's foreword by former U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Joycelyn Elders: "Children must be taught sexual ethics and responsibility, inside and outside the home, just as they are taught to behave in any number of public and private arenas. Teaching children to have self-respect, to feel good about themselves, to make good decisions: to me, that is sexuality education."

The critics have called the University of Minnesota Press irresponsible for publishing the book, prompting an external review. Here's what I call irresponsible: fueling hysteria in the name of self-promotion. Concerned Women for America -- a relatively obscure group on the national radar, until now -- sent out a press release claiming that Levine "advocates" molestation of children and that the University of Minnesota's Regents should fire "those responsible" for the publication of this "evil tome." If they don't, "the people of Minnesota and their elected representatives should move quickly to replace them."

Concerned Women bills itself as "the nation's largest public-policy women's organization," which might come as a surprise to that neighborhood sewing circle known as the National Organization for Women. Funny thing is, three of its six top mouthpieces are men. On CWA's Web site, these spokes people claim to specialize in such fields as "the Homosexual Agenda" and "Sanctity of Life."

Pawlenty, who said he'd never heard of CWA, makes a far more articulate and reasonable foe -- now that he has read some excerpts.

"Levine wordsmiths her way around things by saying our society should be more open and accepting," he said. "But she argues that in certain cases, sex between adults and kids as young as 13 may be appropriate. That's bunk. It's not appropriate, under any circumstance. She tries to deflect the criticism by saying people are picking out just one thing in her book. But that one thing is idiotic."

The most scalding of several hot buttons has been Levine's assertion that not all sex between kids and adults is bad -- a statement the author contends is being taken out of context: "The research shows that not every person who reports having had sex with an adult while a teen thinks of it as a bad experience," she said. "By the time kids get to be teens in this culture, if they have been well prepared and educated, it's realistic and positive to respect what they say, and believe they can tell the difference between coercion and consent. Often, the same people who think kids are old enough to be tried as adults and go to jail think those same kids should not be allowed to feel sexual pleasure."

Which brings us to another of the book's boiling points. The topic of sexual pleasure is hardly new, but it manages to polarize people in a society that still tends to equate sex with Very Bad Things.

"We used to frame sexuality questions around the concept of sin -- now it's been updated to sickness," Levine said. "It's always about a problem, never about something good, which is the opposite of how we should approach the subject with teens."

Levine, who spent three months in the Twin Cities in 1998, devotes several pages of "Harmful to Minors" to praising its safe-sex education efforts, youth programs and dedication to children's welfare.

"It's interesting this [controversy] is happening in Minnesota, which has a socially progressive history, and where the U of M has been a leader in sexual research and education," she said. "There is such a great community of people who really care about kids here."

Levine says she cares about kids, too. I believe her. She is not pro-pedophilia. She is not the Timothy Leary of sex. She is a woman who believes that kids kept in the dark about sexual matters don't suddenly know how to make the right decisions the day they turn 18 and that adults who think they can keep children from sexual fantasies and exploration by not talking about them are incredibly naive.

Some of Levine's ideas are radical. And that's OK; they don't have to be implemented. When taken from the book, in context, these ideas might be used as an opportunity to examine personal beliefs and spark discussions, rather than induce knee-jerk, fear-based reactions.

This is just my opinion, of course. But before giving it, I read the book.

-- Kristin Tillotson is at [email protected] .

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Why am I getting the impression that Judith Levine likes young boys?

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Many were there and didn't become hedonistic hippies.

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ARLady, your outcome of civil war would also be the most disruptive and destructive outcome. For one thing, such a war could last a long time, generations. By which time there'd be few people alive to remember what peace was like. That is how you destroy what thousands of years of western civilization has built. I don't know about you, but I have a problem with people trying to force their beliefs down other people's throats. I think we've progressed quite a bit since the 1860s and people won't tolerate another civil war like that.

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ARLady, your outcome of civil war would also be the most disruptive and destructive outcome. For one thing, such a war could last a long time, generations. By which time there'd be few people alive to remember what peace was like. That is how you destroy what thousands of years of western civilization has built. I don't know about you, but I have a problem with people trying to force their beliefs down other people's throats. I think we've progressed quite a bit since the 1860s and people won't tolerate another civil war like that.