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Posted: 8/7/2006 5:50:25 PM EDT
a fancy name for Godless Communists?

Helping today's university students become indignant over the absurdities of religious dogma is an essential part of persuading them to consider a secular alternative.

Establishing the social acceptability of ridiculing the absurdities of religious claims is an integral part of gaining acceptance for secular humanism.


Taken from:

www.atheists.org/Atheism/bash.html

I found my way to that article from this magazine:

www.thehumanist.org/

I saw it at the library and the cover aksed if you were prepared for a terrorist attack.  Naturally I read the article, which was leftist bullshit.  Then I read these article:

Creative Controversy
Overcoming Antagonistic Atheism to Recast the Image of Humanism
by Jeff Nall  
A Humanist argues that Humanism needs to shed its image of attacking religion, work with liberal religions, and emphasize a more uplifting and positive message.


Humanist Interview
The Costs of Felony Disenfranchisement: An Interview with Conned Author Sasha Abramsky
by Meredith Meacham
Sasha Abramsky answers questions about his new book, Conned, and how felony disenfranchisement laws and regulations are threatening the foundations of American democracy.


No real point I guess, this shit just pissed me off.
Link Posted: 8/7/2006 6:01:16 PM EDT
[#1]
I am a "godless" agnostic, and don't believe any human religion has the truth about the supernatural (or that there really is a supernatural), but I dislike the people who term themselves secular humanists, as they are almost invariably globalist liberals.
Link Posted: 8/7/2006 6:03:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Yeah, that would be me.

And if you don't love Israel you are a "Pali Boy Nazi 88."

If you question GW Bush's handling of the war you are a "Cindy Sheehan Anti War POS."

Etc., etc.

Isn't this fun kiddies?
Link Posted: 8/7/2006 6:03:43 PM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
felony disenfranchisement laws and regulations are threatening the foundations of American democracy.


well i would probably agree with that one.
Link Posted: 8/7/2006 6:07:44 PM EDT
[#4]
I don't know WTF that means, but I am an atheist, and that doesn't equal "commie".  Sorry to spoil your delusions, but most agnostics and atheists are the farthest thing from "commies".  I don't know what a "humanist" is supposed to be but I definitely support our secular government.  
Link Posted: 8/7/2006 6:09:43 PM EDT
[#5]
SCRIPTURES
   n. The sacred books of our holy religion, as distinguished from the false and profane writings on which all other faiths are based.

- Ambrose Bierce

I like it so much, I think I'll sig it.
Link Posted: 8/7/2006 6:14:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 8/7/2006 6:17:08 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't know WTF that means, but I am an atheist, and that doesn't equal "commie".  Sorry to spoil your delusions, but most agnostics and atheists are the farthest thing from "commies".  I don't know what a "humanist" is supposed to be but I definitely support our secular government.  


Secular humanism describes a world view with the following elements and principles:

Need to test beliefs - A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.
Reason, evidence, scientific method - Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
Fulfillment, growth, creativity - A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
Search for truth - A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
This life - A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
Ethics - A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
Building a better world - A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism


Thanks!  That sounds like half hippy bullshit and half good sense. I won't lump myself in with those folks, anyway.  
Link Posted: 8/7/2006 6:17:40 PM EDT
[#8]
I understand better than most athiests/agnostics how difficult it is for the deeply religious to seperate religious and political topics, having been raised evangelical and attended religious schools, including Calvin College.

But they are seperate topics.

When either side of either realm strays into the province of the other nothing but harm results.

People who describe themselves as secular humanists tend to have an agenda, as do those that describe others as secular humanists.
Link Posted: 8/7/2006 6:23:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 8:57:21 AM EDT
[#10]
What does communism have to do with it?  The Bible has a lot more commie-speak than I would expect to hear from a humanist/atheist.

Or wait, maybe you are stuck in the 1950s and Joe McCarthy is still in office?
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 9:58:53 AM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:
What does communism have to do with it?  The Bible has a lot more commie-speak than I would expect to hear from a humanist/atheist.

Or wait, maybe you are stuck in the 1950s and Joe McCarthy is still in office?
"

Don't attempt logic.

These are the same people who believe thier God is "good" and the devil is "evil" even though according to their beliefs God killed more innocent people in a single event than the devil ever has althroughout human history.
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 10:06:32 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
What does communism have to do with it?  The Bible has a lot more commie-speak than I would expect to hear from a humanist/atheist.

Or wait, maybe you are stuck in the 1950s and Joe McCarthy is still in office?


it doesn't have anything to do with it.

Its a common method to discredit those you don't agree with.   Anyone who disagrees with random_arcom_believer_#7 is obviously a communist  or a nazi.


Link Posted: 8/8/2006 10:14:00 AM EDT
[#13]
Being an Atheist of course doesn't make you a Communist.  The first line of my post isn't really important.  I put Godless as a synonym to secular and then implied that communist and humanist are synonyms.

What about this line...

Establishing the social acceptability of ridiculing the absurdities of religious claims is an integral part of gaining acceptance for secular humanism.

I can only assume that everyone agrees with it because noone challenged it.

The atheist article to me was very inflammatory.  Did anyone read it?

Also this magazine did have some commie undertones, one example I read in an article was that a person doing job x in America makes more money than a similar person doing job x in Somalia.  Therefore the world is unfair, the American should be taxed extra and the money redistributed to the Somalian.  No mention of different markets, cost of living, or adaptation or anything like that.  Not very scientific despite their claims.
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 10:42:29 AM EDT
[#14]
I do find many religious beliefs to be laughable but I do not see any benefit from ridiculing others over it.  I do find it hard to resist, though, when Christians make fun of Scientologists and Muslims for the stuff they believe.  To me it is all as whacky.
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 10:55:42 AM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:
Being an Atheist of course doesn't make you a Communist.  The first line of my post isn't really important.  I put Godless as a synonym to secular and then implied that communist and humanist are synonyms.

What about this line...

Establishing the social acceptability of ridiculing the absurdities of religious claims is an integral part of gaining acceptance for secular humanism.

I can only assume that everyone agrees with it because noone challenged it.

The atheist article to me was very inflammatory.  Did anyone read it?

Also this magazine did have some commie undertones, one example I read in an article was that a person doing job x in America makes more money than a similar person doing job x in Somalia.  Therefore the world is unfair, the American should be taxed extra and the money redistributed to the Somalian.  No mention of different markets, cost of living, or adaptation or anything like that.  Not very scientific despite their claims.


Try this...

Your Christian God is a false one who replaced the real Gods of Mt. Olympus. Zues and the other "true Gods" were extensively documented by the earliest cultures long before Moses ever wrote the first books of the Old Testament.

It was the promotion of "false Gods" such the Hebrew God and Jesus which caused the real true Gods of Olympus to abandon man and we have suffered ever since.

Link Posted: 8/8/2006 11:37:49 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
Being an Atheist of course doesn't make you a Communist.  The first line of my post isn't really important.  I put Godless as a synonym to secular and then implied that communist and humanist are synonyms. wrong on both accounts

Establishing the social acceptability of ridiculing the absurdities of religious claims is an integral part of gaining acceptance for secular humanism. I disagree.   We live in a religously plural nation; that can only work if we have respect for each other's beliefs.

I can only assume that everyone agrees with it because noone challenged it.

The atheist article to me was very inflammatory.  Did anyone read it? I don't agree with him, but he does have a point.  The type of Christian who gets in your face about stuff will fall back on it being a duty to proseletyze.   If those assholes are free to do it, then the asshole who wrote that article is free to do as he please  

Also this magazine did have some commie undertones, one example I read in an article was that a person doing job x in America makes more money than a similar person doing job x in Somalia.  Therefore the world is unfair, the American should be taxed extra and the money redistributed to the Somalian.  No mention of different markets, cost of living, or adaptation or anything like that.  Not very scientific despite their claims.  Sort of like how we tax everyone and redistribute that weath where it is needed?   You don't have a problem with the concept, you just don't view that Somalian as a member of your tribe.   That is a globalist agenda, not a communist agenda.


I can't help it if you choose to see the article as representative of all atheists.    We are not exactly an organized group.  If you ask 100 atheists "Do you believe in God" they will all give the answer "no".   If you ask us any other question and the answer will vary based on our personal views on the subject.  I originally came to this board after being banned on an atheist board for being a pro-gun republican.

I have been an atheist for the last 15 years and I have never heard of humanist magazine.   I had to follow your link to find out about it and I wish the article you mention had been available online.

My personal view is we should respect every man's right to follow the belief system he chooses.  Believing in God doesn't make you an idiot, nor does not believing in God.  
I think the tactics the man in the articles espouses are only really useful in defense of your lack of belief.   I don't see a need to convert anyone from their chosen path.    

If someone chooses to ask me the question "why don't you believe in God/Jesus/theBible" and my explanation offends them, its on their head, not mine.  


Link Posted: 8/8/2006 2:08:25 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't agree with him, but he does have a point.  The type of Christian who gets in your face about stuff will fall back on it being a duty to proseletyze.   If those assholes are free to do it, then the asshole who wrote that article is free to do as he please  

Sort of like how we tax everyone and redistribute that weath where it is needed?   You don't have a problem with the concept  I dont agree with the concept with respect to Americans or internationally, you just don't view that Somalian as a member of your tribe.   That is a globalist agenda, not a communist agenda.


I can't help it if you choose to see the article as representative of all atheists.    We are not exactly an organized group.  If you ask 100 atheists "Do you believe in God" they will all give the answer "no".   If you ask us any other question and the answer will vary based on our personal views on the subject.  I originally came to this board after being banned on an atheist board for being a pro-gun republican.  I don't see this as representative of all atheists.

I have been an atheist for the last 15 years and I have never heard of humanist magazine.   I had to follow your link to find out about it and I wish the article you mention had been available online.

My personal view is we should respect every man's right to follow the belief system he chooses.  Believing in God doesn't make you an idiot, nor does not believing in God.  
I think the tactics the man in the articles espouses are only really useful in defense of your lack of belief.   I don't see a need to convert anyone from their chosen path.    

If someone chooses to ask me the question "why don't you believe in God/Jesus/theBible" and my explanation offends them, its on their head, not mine.  


I see the article on the Atheist website as a call to persecute Christians.  

The article in the Humanist magazine about this specific quote was representing the other side of the coin, as you can tell by the article's title, he was condemning the type of rhetoric from the Tabash essay.  I know you could find more essays by the guy who wrote the article, Jeff Nall, just by doing a google search.  I guess that's all I have to say on the topic.
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 2:28:52 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:
I see the article on the Atheist website as a call to persecute Christians.   Then you have a serious reading comprehension issue.  He's saying that there is no need to treat religion any differently than politics, or any other subject, when it comes to discussion.   I disagree because of my views on how people should treat each other.   What he is advocating is rude, not persecution.  The idea that 10% of the population could oppress 70% of the population in America (with the RKBA) is ludicrous from the outset

The article in the Humanist magazine about this specific quote was representing the other side of the coin, as you can tell by the article's title, he was condemning the type of rhetoric from the Tabash essay.  I know you could find more essays by the guy who wrote the article, Jeff Nall, just by doing a google search.  I guess that's all I have to say on the topic.


Which is why I wished I could have read it.  From the blurb, it appeared to be much more in line with my views.  I don't like the article from atheists.org either, the differnce is I'm not thin skinned enough to call it persecution.

Noone is being persecuted for religious reasons in America.  

What we do have is people being impolite.   Its impolite to poke holes in someone's faith, not persecution.  Its impolite to have a sectarian prayer at a public school graduation where religious minorities attend, not persecution.    Its impolite not to allow the family of a deceased Wiccan serviceman to put a Wiccan symbol on his grave, not persecution.




Link Posted: 8/8/2006 4:06:26 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

What we do have is people being impolite.   Its impolite to poke holes in someone's faith, not persecution.  Its impolite to have a sectarian prayer at a public school graduation where religious minorities attend, not persecution.    Its impolite not to allow the family of a deceased Wiccan serviceman to put a Wiccan symbol on his grave, not persecution.




Its not about people being impolite, its that you cant please everyone.
I guess people use to  just shrug it off if they did not agree, now they whine because somone said something that hurt their feelings.
Its to bad that the serviceman did not have his symbol put on his grave,but  thats because the DOD will not bend their own rules.
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 5:17:43 PM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:

Its not about people being impolite, its that you cant please everyone.
I guess people use to  just shrug it off if they did not agree, now they whine because somone said something that hurt their feelings.
Its to bad that the serviceman did not have his symbol put on his grave,but  thats because the DOD will not bend their own rules.


no the closest you can come to that is pleasing noone.   Right now all sides of the religious issue are bitching, wich tells me we are probably about as balanced as we can come.

The problem is you're assuming the goal is to please everyone.    The goal is to favor none.  There are those who choose to interpret "no favorites" as persecution, and that is there problem.   Favoring none is relatively easy, as long as those in the majority remember we are a consitutional republic, and not an unlimited democracy.

I tend to agree with the Wiccan headstone, but there are some who feel the very pro-Christian administration isn't lending a hand because it is a Wiccan soldier.
It was simply a recent example where some claim persecution when its really just rudeness, whether it is an individual or a system that is giving offense.

Link Posted: 8/12/2006 8:24:21 AM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:
...snip...

I guess people use to  just shrug it off if they did not agree, now they whine because somone said something that hurt their feelings.

...snip...


The situation 50 years ago was that non-believers were so few that they could be shrugged off as kooks.  The non-believer portion of the general population is growing and gaining momentum.  It's fear, and I believe it's a sort-of socially instinctive reaction when such a rapid change occurs to the foundation of a society.  The dawning of non-religious awareness is a virtual overnight process, wildly accelerated by technology--this technology I'm using right now, because of religion's fragility in this scientificly-driven environment.  Religion is going from unquestionability to silliness in a generation or two.

And so note the friction between believers and non-believers is unavoidable.  "Believer"and "non-believer" are literally and figuratively diametrically opposed views.  But it's worse than mere disagreement because the minority gaining exposure, exposes that falsehood of the very foundation of so many lives.  Religious people call this process (here-in) persecution; non-believers call it enlightenment.  ...Earth-and-plow; diamond-and-glass; faith-and-reason.  

Of course this chasm precludes even meaningful conversations because the believer can't go wherethe non-believer's mind resides--where there's the assumption that there are no gods.  

Religion is a mental constraint system as I see it.  Believers in various systems don't enhance awareness in different ways, but constrains the mind in various ways.  

It's not the non-believers that ridicule the believers--the self-ridicule is part of the coming aware process.  "If the non-believers are right, then I'm the weirdo 40-year-old who believes in Santa."  The ridicule waits to weigh on whomever crosses the intellectual void.   We don't cause the ridicule that's generated from the "Humanism" points Aimless posted.  Indeed, the non-believers are powerless to protect people from this exposure.  

"Secular Humanism" is a name given to a situation that has to have a name in a word where belief systems are prevalent.  It has to have a name; there has to be an agenda.  These are the peoplet he bible warns us about--they cannot be right.  Their religion--"Secular Humanism" is false! Burn them!
Link Posted: 8/15/2006 6:24:57 PM EDT
[#22]
I don't think that secular humanism is directly related to atheism or agnostisism.  And the wickipedia article was a bunch of crap.
What secular humanism is is the belief that people have all the answers ("well, not everyone, mostly just me") and that they should be telling others how to live and what should be done with their money.   Your basic liberal pompous ass.
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 5:41:42 AM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:
a fancy name for Godless Communists?

Helping today's university students become indignant over the absurdities of religious dogma is an essential part of persuading them to consider a secular alternative.


Nope, fancy name for "freedom of religion". Here's the first paragraph on Wikipedia -

"Freedom of religion and belief is considered by many to be a fundamental human right. It is also a guarantee by a government for freedom of belief for individuals and freedom of worship for individuals and groups. Freedom of religion must also include the freedom not to follow any religion (irreligion) or not having any belief in god (atheism)."

And for us in the U.S. specifically -

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Many people look at the First Amendment and see government staying out of religion and the freedom for you or me to worship whatever religion that we want without fear of persecution. What many people overlook, and is interpreted with equal validity, is that it allows you or me to NOT worship at all, without fear of persecution.
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 5:56:13 AM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:
...I originally came to this board after being banned on an atheist board for being a pro-gun republican....


I'm sure that's not supposed to be funny, but it just hit me that way because I'm a gun-totin', atheist, republican myself.
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 7:11:17 AM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
...I originally came to this board after being banned on an atheist board for being a pro-gun republican....


I'm sure that's not supposed to be funny, but it just hit me that way because I'm a gun-totin', atheist, republican myself.


I found it amusing myself when it happened :P

Link Posted: 8/16/2006 7:12:11 AM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
...I originally came to this board after being banned on an atheist board for being a pro-gun republican....


I'm sure that's not supposed to be funny, but it just hit me that way because I'm a gun-totin', atheist, republican myself.


+1

When do we get together and build our tree house?
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 7:44:53 AM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
...I originally came to this board after being banned on an atheist board for being a pro-gun republican....


I'm sure that's not supposed to be funny, but it just hit me that way because I'm a gun-totin', atheist, republican myself.


I found it amusing myself when it happened :P



Story of my life.

No time for liberal socialism, no time for conservative fairy tales.

Link Posted: 8/16/2006 8:46:14 AM EDT
[#28]
I want to build a treehouse!
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 8:53:36 AM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:
I want to build a treehouse!




PS: Not to jack this thread, but you guys made my day!
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 9:14:31 AM EDT
[#30]

Quoted:

Story of my life.

No time for liberal socialism, no time for conservative fairy tales.



LOL

glad I'm not the only one

Link Posted: 8/16/2006 9:57:08 AM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:
...The situation 50 years ago was that non-believers were so few that they could be shrugged off as kooks.  The non-believer portion of the general population is growing and gaining momentum.  It's fear, and I believe it's a sort-of socially instinctive reaction when such a rapid change occurs to the foundation of a society.  The dawning of non-religious awareness is a virtual overnight process, wildly accelerated by technology--this technology I'm using right now, because of religion's fragility in this scientificly-driven environment.  Religion is going from unquestionability to silliness in a generation or two.


+1


...Of course this chasm precludes even meaningful conversations because the believer can't go where the non-believer's mind resides--where there's the assumption that there are no gods.


True.

What starts as a meaningful conversation often deteriorates into them lobbing bible quotes. It's as if they go into "default mode" or some kind of "auto pilot" takes over where bible verse just starts spewing out. I'll talk with anyone, as long as they have something to say that is their own, but when they just go on autopilot and start spitting out verse, I give up. Only thing I can figure is that this behavior is a defense mechanism that's used when their "back is against the wall" or they've simply run out of original thoughts. Not trying to be a wiseass, but this is generally what happens when you push these people. I beg them for original thoughts and all I get is the same old spew from that tired old playbook. I've read it (okay, much of it), and I know what it says. Even studied it for a handful of semesters in college (liberal arts, Baptist college).


It's not the non-believers that ridicule the believers--the self-ridicule is part of the coming aware process.  "If the non-believers are right, then I'm the weirdo 40-year-old who believes in Santa."  The ridicule waits to weigh on whomever crosses the intellectual void.


You're being kind. That's not always the case. But that is one of the "burdens" of being a believer.

I don't think they, for one minute, consider that any "non-believer" might be right. Particularly if stepping on their "faith".
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 10:08:58 AM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Story of my life.

No time for liberal socialism, no time for conservative fairy tales.



LOL

glad I'm not the only one



It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 10:45:37 AM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Story of my life.

No time for liberal socialism, no time for conservative fairy tales.



LOL

glad I'm not the only one



It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.


If only you were a woman...
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 10:46:59 AM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Story of my life.

No time for liberal socialism, no time for conservative fairy tales.



LOL

glad I'm not the only one



It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.


If only you were a woman...


Dang. Beat me to it...

My wife's pretty close.
Link Posted: 8/17/2006 3:31:07 AM EDT
[#35]

Quoted:

...snip...

What starts as a meaningful conversation often deteriorates into them lobbing bible quotes. It's as if they go into "default mode" or some kind of "auto pilot" takes over where bible verse just starts spewing out. I'll talk with anyone, as long as they have something to say that is their own, but when they just go on autopilot and start spitting out verse, I give up. Only thing I can figure is that this behavior is a defense mechanism that's used when their "back is against the wall" or they've simply run out of original thoughts. Not trying to be a wiseass, but this is generally what happens when you push these people. I beg them for original thoughts and all I get is the same old spew from that tired old playbook. I've read it (okay, much of it), and I know what it says. Even studied it for a handful of semesters in college (liberal arts, Baptist college).

...snip...


I sincerely appreciate the comments.

I don't come down on them so hard.

I think the whole reaction comes from the shock of operating with others who are outside the confines of their belief system.  Usually, in religious conversations, the verses they cite are unquestioningly applauded.  Indeed in some circles, the more verse one can fit into one's life, the higher one's status becomes.  These people are literally immersed in their beliefs, and when they enter an environment of debate...well, the behavior all but predictable.
Link Posted: 8/17/2006 4:38:17 AM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

...snip...

What starts as a meaningful conversation...

...snip...


I sincerely appreciate the comments.

I don't come down on them so hard.

I think the whole reaction comes from the shock of operating with others who are outside the confines of their belief system.  Usually, in religious conversations, the verses they cite are unquestioningly applauded.  Indeed in some circles, the more verse one can fit into one's life, the higher one's status becomes.  These people are literally immersed in their beliefs, and when they enter an environment of debate...well, the behavior all but predictable.


I agree, particularly with this.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 6:23:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Ridicule is fun!  Relax...

The irony in this is the people who fly the "tolerance" flag the highest, are the first to jump on the religious.

Don't confuse socialists with athiests.  They do not describe the same properties.  Socialists want to displace religion with a worship of the state religion where the good of the many outweigh the good of the one, just as long as they are not the one themselves.

If you really want to upset a socialist, inform them that their current place in the social hierarchy would be the same under any system.  They would gleefully tear apart our capitalist system, and 'punish' those who profited upon the 'backs' of the poor.  Minister of X or Y would become the highest paid job in the country.  Problem is, they'd rather not work for it, they just want a revolution where they are placed at the top.  The fact is, the same go get'em attitude that makes people movers and shakers in our current system, would put those same people in the highest positions in ANY system.  Sorry, but you still get to rant and rave about how the man is keeping you down...
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 11:49:42 AM EDT
[#38]

Quoted:

I don't think that secular humanism is directly related to atheism or agnostisism.

 And the wickipedia article was a bunch of crap.

What secular humanism is is the belief that people have all the answers ("well, not everyone, mostly just me") and that they should be telling others how to live and what should be done with their money.   Your basic liberal pompous ass.


and where did you glean this enlightened definition of secular humism  ??

Link Posted: 8/22/2006 2:29:20 PM EDT
[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't think that secular humanism is directly related to atheism or agnostisism.

 And the wickipedia article was a bunch of crap.

What secular humanism is is the belief that people have all the answers ("well, not everyone, mostly just me") and that they should be telling others how to live and what should be done with their money.   Your basic liberal pompous ass.


and where did you glean this enlightened definition of secular humism  ??



One will hear any and all answers except: "hey, that makes sense," or "you are right," or permutations there of.  The definition of anything that challenges one's religion must be, practically by definition, negative.  Christians are even required to not let non-believers be.  It's a neat system that identifies non-believers for either conversion or out-casting; there is no possibility for tolerance except for pretentiousness...or core reform; and the pressure ain't nearly great enough [yet] for such drastic survival measures; their credibility isn't damaged enough [yet,] but the process is well under way.  

Understand that IMO, this pressure comes from within; not from the non-believers.  Doctrin has changed time-and-time-again in the last 2,000 years.  The impetus for change is purely reactionary--a survival strategy.  In this long-term atmosphere of freedom [from religion,] a situation has evolved where the church forms around the opinion of the people (to attract business basically) as much as the people's opinion forms around the opinion of the church.  All this science and technology makes it hard for the church to keep up...to maintain its credibility.  
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