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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/4/2005 3:32:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 3:47:25 AM EDT by Carbine_Man]
Exodus 34:5-8


Context: On mount Sinai, Moses has asked God to show him His glory (33:18)


5 The LORD descended in the cloud and stood there with him as he called upon the name of the LORD. 6 Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7 who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations." 8 Moses made haste to bow low toward the earth and worship.


Have a great day.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 3:44:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 3:58:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Hopefully, today will go better for this topic.

I hope so too.

My intent in these posts is simply to put these verses of the Bible where they can be read. Many religions claim the Judeo-Christian Bible to be their sacred text, therefore presenting it seems within the guidelines of the forum.

Hopefully, those who find them helpful will respond with why it's helpful. Those who have specific questions about what the text means can ask freely. Those who have problems with the text can state so.

There are people over in GD who post about terrible situations in their lives, the kind of problems that tear people up leaving them scarred and depressed. Everyday people are struggling with the effects of the curse and man's sin in this life. Maybe someone will stop by and see a verse, presented without comment, and find that thinking about it has made their day more tolerable.

Anyway, that's my hope.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:07:54 AM EDT


Moses made haste to bow low toward the earth and worship.


We sometimes tend to get too casual in our perception of Yahweh.

If we had a real understanding about Him we'd be on our faces much of the time, overwhelmed by His glory and holiness.

I was at the Stand In The Gap gathering that Promise Keepers had on the Mall in DC. There was so much sound and activity, with in the neighborhood of a million men there.

Then there was a point where we all knelt and bowed our heads down in absolute silence. The reverence was... well, it's hard to describe.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:12:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 4:32:07 AM EDT by Carbine_Man]
Okay, maybe not completely without comment....

Three aspects of this passage are very remarkable.

First: This is the first place in the Bible where God makes a general statement about Himself and His nature. Moses has asked that God show him "His glory." We might have expected that Moses would record what God "looked like." After all, the Israelites at this point have just come from spending their whole lives among idolaters, and were very likely idolaters themselves (see the golden calf incident.) Instead God uses words to describe Himself. This is a constant theme of the Bible: God wants us to form our understanding of Who He is through words, not images.

Second: What is the first thing that God wants us to know about Himself? That He is "compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth." Wow, just wow.

Third: Though He wants us to know that He is a compassionate, loving God, at the same time He is Holy. Both of these attributes are presented together. There is no conflict between the two in His character.

And what is Moses response? He bows down and worships.

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 1:08:56 PM EDT
Exodus 34:5-8


Context: On mount Sinai, Moses has asked God to show him His glory (33:18)


_______________________________________________________________

This is an interesting chapter in that in direct or indirect fashion, G-d had previously been shown as creator, ruler of history, jealous of other gods, lawgiver and guarantor of justice.

In this instance, Moses asks G-d not only to disclose his nature but also his full name. Previously in Exodus 3:14, G-d indicated to Moses what has always been an enigmatic name, for which the transliteration is Ehyeh-Asher-Ehye. The enigma stems from the way Semitic language may be translated. In this case, it may be translated as “I am who I am”, though also “I am who I will become”.

Personally, I’ve always thought this an appropriate perspective of discussion. And, please, for the purpose of this rambling…let’s not introduce other literature and other meanings. Let’s examine a bit of what this would have possibly meant to Moses, as well as an understanding from traditional Jewish views.

I’ll keep this short for now.

In any reading of the Hebrew bible, it’s interesting to note that the relationship between the Hebrews and Moses, between Moses and G-d, and between G-d and the Hebrews is a story of a totally dysfunctional family. G-d helps the Hebrews, and they complain…to both Moses and G-d. G-d himself does not trust his own temper (Exodus 33:3), as he will remove himself after being to sorely tried by his people, that an angel will take his place.

As a tangent, yet still within this thread, let’s think back to the Garden of Eden.

G-d has created (for now let’s ignore the two stories of Creation) a garden, and have placed Adam and Eve within it, free to explore all with the exception of this particular tree.

As I had posted earlier, I found this passage, in association with Exodus 34:5-8, interesting. And here I find the ambiguous reference to the Name of G-d interesting.

For instance, for the parents among you, what would you imagine your children doing if you were to say…”stay away from ….” Naturally, children would make a bee-line in the direction of your caveat!

My read on this is that the ambiguous name G-d reveals in Exodus 34:5-8 has now come full-circle, and has given us the blessing of understanding that not only, with each generation, are we to find G-d, but to re-interpret G-d and his message for all times. As we develop and mature, so to will our relationship and understanding of the true nature of G-d. It’s a seemingly circular argument whereby Moses must at last understand that this is the limit of human knowledge.

Okay, this is my round-about read of the original post, which is about Exodus 34:5-8. From what I have already alluded to, Exodus 34:5-8 seems as a circular argument whereby Moses must at last understand that this is the limit of human knowledge. While G-d’s “back” may only be seen, it is in this context that only G-ds deeds and actions (i.e., what he (we?) have seen and done are the aspects that reveal his (ours?) true existence and nature.

For me, this makes sense, and is what ties us to a concept for understanding each other and our relationship with G-d. It’s the consequence of our actions, be they positive or negative, is what each of us has a causal relationship (positive or negative), upon our fellows. By understanding this, may we then look forward towards betterment of ourselves, and the human condition.


Jewish Ed

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 1:16:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Moses made haste to bow low toward the earth and worship.


We sometimes tend to get too casual in our perception of Yahweh.

If we had a real understanding about Him we'd be on our faces much of the time, overwhelmed by His glory and holiness.

I was at the Stand In The Gap gathering that Promise Keepers had on the Mall in DC. There was so much sound and activity, with in the neighborhood of a million men there.

Then there was a point where we all knelt and bowed our heads down in absolute silence. The reverence was... well, it's hard to describe.



+1
I agree. We should guard against becoming casual in our prayers and worship. I'm guillty of this, and hope I can do better in the future. I believe that God is so holy and pure that it would be impossible for us to stand before Him if not for the saving grace of Christ.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 3:39:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 3:56:08 PM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By axmurderer:

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Moses made haste to bow low toward the earth and worship.


We sometimes tend to get too casual in our perception of Yahweh.

If we had a real understanding about Him we'd be on our faces much of the time, overwhelmed by His glory and holiness.

I was at the Stand In The Gap gathering that Promise Keepers had on the Mall in DC. There was so much sound and activity, with in the neighborhood of a million men there.

Then there was a point where we all knelt and bowed our heads down in absolute silence. The reverence was... well, it's hard to describe.



+1
I agree. We should guard against becoming casual in our prayers and worship. I'm guillty of this, and hope I can do better in the future. I believe that God is so holy and pure that it would be impossible for us to stand before Him if not for the saving grace of Christ.



I think Isaiah Chapter 6 gives a good idea of what its like in Gods throne room. Sure shows how serious Gods Holiness is. The very Seraphim, the ones created to be in His direct presence even shield thier faces about Him.

If you were to take folks who were considered holy, upright, morraly straight, Isaiah would certainly be numbered among them and even he laerned to not be so flippant about Gods holiness.


1In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

2Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

3And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

4And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

5Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.



Even an upright man crumbles in awe in the presence of the Lord. The absolute Holiness of God will tear any man down. I believe that is the proper response when one truly sees the Glory of God. Job, another man considered, holy, upright and just before God crumbled when faced with Gods absolute Holiness.

Job 42:1-6

1 Then Job answered the LORD and said:

2 “I know that You can do everything,
And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.

3 You asked, ‘Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?’
Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.

4 Listen, please, and let me speak;
You said, ‘I will question you, and you shall answer Me.’

5 “I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear,
But now my eye sees You.

6 Therefore I abhor myself,
And repent in dust and ashes.”



A man considered favored by God even got to the point of hating himself when seeing God in all His glory and not even a physical vision, but revelation of His works and wonders and Sovereignty.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:27:07 PM EDT
Scripture of the Day - 8/4

________________________________________________________

This had great potential, how did this great thread die?



Jewish Ed
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:34:48 PM EDT
Alot I agreed with in your post, but these two things stood out to me -


Originally Posted By scuba_ed:
My read on this is that the ambiguous name G-d reveals in Exodus 34:5-8 has now come full-circle,



Just theother day I spoke of the progressive revelation of God, now being fully revealed.

And you like took a coronary.

Are we in agreement now?



and has given us the blessing of understanding that not only, with each generation, are we to find G-d, but to re-interpret G-d and his message for all times.


Did you REALLY means to say we "re-interpret God's message?" Asked another way, is it us who changes, or God's message that changes?

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not


Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:37:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Hopefully, today will go better for this topic.



Since this forum is supposed to be "technical" in nature, perhaps Carbine_Man would
give some personal thoughts on the scriptures when posting them, rather
than just the text itself.

Similarly, in GD if you post a news link it's expected that you will have some comment, otherwise
GD will look exactly like foxnews.com

Anyway, just a thought.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:43:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Hopefully, today will go better for this topic.



Since this forum is supposed to be "technical" in nature, perhaps Carbine_Man would
give some personal thoughts on the scriptures when posting them, rather
than just the text itself.

Similarly, in GD if you post a news link it's expected that you will have some comment, otherwise
GD will look exactly like foxnews.com

Anyway, just a thought.



See his psot # 2373, this thread.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:44:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Hopefully, today will go better for this topic.



Since this forum is supposed to be "technical" in nature, perhaps Carbine_Man would
give some personal thoughts on the scriptures when posting them, rather
than just the text itself.

Similarly, in GD if you post a news link it's expected that you will have some comment, otherwise
GD will look exactly like foxnews.com

Anyway, just a thought.



See his psot # 2373, this thread.




Yes, but not until after he was asked, just thinking out loud maybe posting his thoughts
in the initial post would maybe relieve some of the anxiety about this topic.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:49:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Yes, but not until after he was asked, just thinking out loud maybe posting his thoughts
in the initial post would maybe relieve some of the anxiety about this topic.



What's wrong with a little anxiety??

In literary terms, its called a "dramatic pause."

I suspect he wanted to allow readers to absorb if for themselves than right off tell us what we SHOULD think about it.

Which makes me wonder - what do youy think about it???

I reflect how it shows God's balance - merciful, full of compassion, patient, but on teh other side ultimately intolerant of sin, bringing judgment to those who insist God judge them.



Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:52:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Yes, but not until after he was asked, just thinking out loud maybe posting his thoughts
in the initial post would maybe relieve some of the anxiety about this topic.



What's wrong with a little anxiety??

In literary terms, its called a "dramatic pause."

I suspect he wanted to allow readers to absorb if for themselves than right off tell us what we SHOULD think about it.

Which makes me wonder - what do youy think about it???

I reflect how it shows God's balance - merciful, full of compassion, patient, but on teh other side ultimately intolerant of sin, bringing judgment to those who insist God judge them.







No argument from me, I was just trying to avoid a train wreck

As for what I think, it's VERY much paternal sounding. I will give you as much leeway as I can,
but if you step over the line, prepare for some serious smiting.

My grandad used to say pretty much the same thing.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:22:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 3:23:17 PM EDT by Carbine_Man]
I appreciate the perspective you guys are offering.

My intent is simply to present verses from the Bible. I believe God's Word is it's own interpreter, and that there is a power in the text itself that we do not understand. I am not talking about anything mystical, just that when it is read, there are a million and one ways God might apply it to the heart of the reader.

To some it will be a foundation, to some it will be an offense. But it will never fail.

Isaiah 40:8

The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.
Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.


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