Warning

 

Close
Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Cancel Confirm
AR15.COM
9/18/2006 8:09:49 PM EDT
For who who dont mind helping or correcting when others are in error.

In Genesis.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
"And the earth was without form, and void;and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."


What is the popular interpretation of the part in red. I dont know any Hebrew and need some help. Could it also be translated "the Earth became without form..."?

How does one interpret the word used to get a difference between became and was?
10/10/2006 5:29:23 PM EDT
[#1]
bump since there is a topic related right now and some of the boards Jewish members are helping out.
10/11/2006 5:29:53 AM EDT
[#2]
I  have to get my language resources in my other office. I'll try to as soon as I can.

10/11/2006 10:23:54 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
For who who dont mind helping or correcting when others are in error.

In Genesis.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
"And the earth was without form, and void;and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."


What is the popular interpretation of the part in red. I dont know any Hebrew and need some help. Could it also be translated "the Earth became without form..."?

How does one interpret the word used to get a difference between became and was?


___

Hi wildboar!

My Torah commentary explains this through the translation of Rashi, who commented that G-d created the earth out of nothing.

Ed
10/21/2006 4:39:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Well I'm not a "Jew", but the answer to your question is yes. The "without form and void" is Tohu va Bohu in the original language and means to lay waste. It is used only one other time in Scripture and is a in a vision by Jerimiah wherein there men, mountains and cities are destroyed. Think about it...to "void" something means there was an original to begin with, then cancelled out...like a check.  The "Awdawm" #120, and a root word from #119 in Strong's that was created in Genesis one (NOT to be mistaken with "THE ADAM of "Ha-Awdawm"" created in Genesis two) was given the command to  replenish the earth.  How can something be "replenished" had it not been "plenished before?  And yes, the word "was" can equally be translated "became" and due to the wording, it should have been translated that way.  As Jerimiah said of the "lying pen of the scribes" in his day, they still work diligently to conceal many, many truths.


Proverbs 25:2  It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.


Of the Bereans...

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.


Here is a small segment from a book I am writing that deals with the subject matter at hand.


...Using scientific evidence, it is very clear that the non-Adamic peoples were here long before the man called Adam appeared on the scene.  It is also very clear that the earth is much older than six thousand years..  If we read, and do a word study into Genesis 1:2, we can shed a little more light on the subject.

“And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”  Gen. 1:2

 Between verses one and two, there is an indeterminable amount of time, possibly spanning millions of years.  The words translated, “without form and void” are; “Tohu va Bohu”.  The young’s Concordance gives the following definitions to these Hebrew words used in conjunction: “Tohu = a ruin, vacancy.  Bohu = emptiness.”  Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance translates it: “Tohuw = to lie waste.”

 Even in our language today we know to void something, like a check for instance, means to “cancel it out.”  We make it as if the check was never there, but that does not change the fact that it was there, does it?  In Genesis one, the created man and woman (not Adam and Eve) were told to:

“And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth…”  Genesis 1:28

 How could some thing be replenished, had it not been once filled?

 In our modern language, it can be rendered as an “empty ruin”, and this empty ruin was without light, according to the Scriptures.  Here we have all of the necessary elements for an ice age, during which an unknown number of events had taken place resulting in a state of darkness.  

 Scientist tell us today that if the suns heat was withdrawn, every atom of moisture would freeze and fall as hail or snow.  Not long after that the air would become solid.  This reminds me of a Scripture.

 "Out of whose womb came the ice? And the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?  The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen."  Job 38:29-30

 In the book of Jeremiah the Prophet, we read another description of this disaster to creation.

24 “I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
  25I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
  26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
  27For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.”  Jeremiah 4:23-27

 The “without form and void” in the above Scripture, is the only other place that the exact words; “Tohu va Bohu” is used.  The only other place that this is used is in Genesis 1:2.  Notice that “cities” were torn down, and it says, “there was no man”.  The way Jeremiah words this, it appears as if there were man there before this great destruction.  This will explain much to those who are willing to search it out.  There is NO Biblical evidence suggesting that the earth is only six thousand years old.  In fact, it detracts from Christianity to teach such a thing when the evidence about us show just the opposite. That is what this teaching id designed to do, lead people, intelligent people away from Christ.  

 The Scriptures are very clear that Adam was not the first “man”.  There are two creation stories, one in Genesis one, and then Adam was created in Genesis chapter two.  Note the differences in the two which totally separate them from being a “retelling” of the first.  I will underline the clear differences, then note references to the Adamic story.


Genesis 1:27-29
“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (In Gen. 2, God created Adam, then Eve.  Apparently not on the same day.)
  28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, (Adam was not told to “replenish the earth.” And we don’t see any type of procreation until after the fall in the Garden) and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
  29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, (Adam was clearly told not to eat of every tree.) in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.”

 Now let us look at the Adamic creation in Genesis chapter two, eighth day man.

Genesis 2
5”And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.”……(Take note that this does not claim that there was no man, just no man capable of agriculture.  Science agrees that man walked here on earth from very ancient times, but it wasn’t until six thousand years ago that man began to build agrarian societies.  And then out of “nowhere” comes all of this intelligence about farming.)
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.  (no such thing was said of sixth day “man”.  It just says “male and female He created He them”. No mention of a soul at all.)
  17”But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” (the Genesis 1 sixth day man was not given any restrictions.)
   18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; (This man was clearly created without a mate to “replenish the earth” with) I will make him an help meet for him.
  20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. (Are we supposed to believe that Adam’s mate could have been one of the “beasts of the field”?, That is where he was looking.)
  21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; ( It is interesting to note that the word translated “ribs” here is#6763 in Strong’s and means; a “curve.”  It is clear from what we know now about DNA, that this was what is known as the “helix curve” found in a strand of DNA.  No such thing was said of the man created in Genesis one.)
  22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. (Would an event such as this have been left out of the first creation story, if this is in fact a “retelling”?  I think not.).....

  The Genesis one “Aw-dawm” would have been a hunter gatherer, as he was clearly told to eat what ever he wanted of tree and beast alike.  (Genesis 1:30)  We know that God’s Laws were in effect at the time of Abraham, long before Moses codified them on Mt. Sinai, for God said of Abraham, that:
“Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws”  Genesis 26:5  
 Where do you think Abraham learned of these “laws”, had they not been passed down through Seth?  We know that the Law Moses codified forbad the eating of certain meats.

 It is believed this “Hunter Aw-dawm” was a more early type of man that had been here to many millennia.  The creation story says “days” in the King James Version.  It is number 3117 in Strong’s and it can easily be translated “age”.  In fact, the Ferrar Fenton Translation from the late 1800’s uses the word “age” instead of “day”.  In fact, I believe that would have been a better translation than “day”.  We do know from Scripture that a day is as a thousand years to the Lord.
  “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” 2nd Peter 3:8

 It is clear that there are differences between the “Hunter Aw-dawm” of Genesis one, and the “Farmer Adam” from Genesis chapter two.