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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/20/2002 11:49:00 AM EDT
IF APPROVAL IS GIVEN ON FORM 1 TO AN INDIVIDUAL OR CORPORATION BY THE ATF TO MAKE A SHORT BARRELED AR-15 RIFLE, CAN THIS FIREARM CONTAIN ALL PRE-BAN FEATURES (IE) BAYO LUG , FLASH HIDER ETC? THANKS, GARY
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 12:43:03 PM EDT
Not unless it was exempted to begin with. If it's a post-ban rifle, then the prohibitions of the Crime Bill apply with or without your stamp. Sorry.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 12:58:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2002 1:00:27 PM EDT by Vulcan94]
Steve-in-VA, If you have an AR15 that is registered as a SBR, can you change the upper to one with a full length barrel when you need to, or must it always remain as a SBR? Vulcan94 Only 2 posts to 200!
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 3:55:53 PM EDT
You can go longer if you want. If the change is permanent, you should notify ATF of the dimension change with a letter so they can amend your Form 4 description. If the change is permanent, and the barrel is >16", you can request that the SBR be removed from the NFA registry, but it'd be another registration and $200 to go short with it again if you have it removed from the registry.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 10:33:36 AM EDT
Steve, Are you sure about this? According to a rep at Olympic arms, if I register a post-94 AR as a SBR, I am then free to put a collapable stock, flash hider etc. He seemed convinced at any rate :) I was sure excited at this prospect.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 10:46:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2002 10:50:55 AM EDT by Kharn]
micmac: The rep is wrong. The crime bill applies to ALL semiautomatic rifles with detachable magazines (those made before 1994 are exempt if they had evil features before 1994 and have always changed hands with evil features attached). You have three options to choose from if you must (legally) have a telestock on a post-94 rifle: 1. Permanetly attach the magazine, a bead of weld around the bottom of the lower will work, I believe. Since the rifle no longer has a detachable magazine, the rule doesnt apply. 2. Disable semiautomatic operation, this can be done by removing the gas tube, and turns your rifle into a single shot, straight pull bolt action. Since its no longer semiautomatic, the rule doesnt apply. 3. Buy a Drop In Auto Sear (DIAS) for $4000 on a Form4 and enjoy having a machine gun. Since its no longer semiautomatic, the rule doesnt apply. Kharn
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 10:53:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2002 11:02:28 AM EDT by Steve-in-VA]
Positive. Check this out: [URL]subguns.biggerhammer.net/mgmsg.cgi?#167862[/URL]. Go to the post of 3/20/02 at 14:42 and peruse the thread. It's a lively debate (and cyber bitch-slapping), mainly about the ability to "pre-ban" a post-ban married to a DIAS. However, towards the end is a mini-thread about SBRs. Also see [URL]www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter1.txt [/URL] . This letter deals with the DIAS question but, if read carefully, answers your question. If the rifle is semi-auto, the AW Ban always applies. Think about it, if doing an end-run around the AW Ban was that easy, don't you think all those inflated pre-ban prices would evaporate? You'd also see every schmo with a post-ban filling out a Form 1 so that it turns into a pre-ban for just 200 bucks. I wish.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 10:57:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Steve-in-VA: Positive. Check this out: [URL]www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter1.txt[/URL] Also, for a lively debate (and cyber bitch-slapping), see [URL]subguns.biggerhammer.net/mgmsg.cgi?#167862[/URL]. ME TOO! Go to the post of 3/20/02 at 14:42 and peruse the thread. Think about it, if doing an end-run around the AW Ban was that easy, don't you think all those inflated pre-ban prices would evaporate? You'd also see every schmo with a post-ban filling out a Form 1 so that it turns into a pre-ban for just 200 bucks. I wish.
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Link Posted: 3/22/2002 6:22:52 AM EDT
Be very careful with a SBR. I have been told by a couple different people that when you "manufacture" a SBR (which is what the Form 1 allows), the "manufacture" date of the weapon is now the date on the Form 1. That means that if you make a PRE-BAN AR into a SBR, it loses it's pre-ban exemption and cannot have any evil features. This came up when I wanted to get an 11.5" barrel and put a suppressor on it. The suppressor manufacturer told me the ATF has interpreted the law as above and I couldn't do it. The easiesy way around all the crap is to buy a machine gun. One $200 tax stamp and you can have any barrel length you want and can still have as many evil features as you want! To be absolutely certain, a letter would have to be written to the ATF for clarification. It is clear that a POST-BAN SBR will ALWAYS be a post-ban weapon. What is not clear is if a PRE-BAN made into a SBR loses it's pre-ban exemption. Now, if it was made into a SBR prior to the ban, it is clearly still a pre-ban. Confused yet?
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 7:31:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2002 7:35:42 AM EDT by drfcolt]
Originally Posted By RayDBonz: Be very careful with a SBR. I have been told by a couple different people that when you "manufacture" a SBR (which is what the Form 1 allows), the "manufacture" date of the weapon is now the date on the Form 1. That means that if you make a PRE-BAN AR into a SBR, it loses it's pre-ban exemption and cannot have any evil features. This came up when I wanted to get an 11.5" barrel and put a suppressor on it. The suppressor manufacturer told me the ATF has interpreted the law as above and I couldn't do it. The easiesy way around all the crap is to buy a machine gun. One $200 tax stamp and you can have any barrel length you want and can still have as many evil features as you want! To be absolutely certain, a letter would have to be written to the ATF for clarification. It is clear that a POST-BAN SBR will ALWAYS be a post-ban weapon. What is not clear is if a PRE-BAN made into a SBR loses it's pre-ban exemption. Now, if it was made into a SBR prior to the ban, it is clearly still a pre-ban. Confused yet?
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This has been brought up before AND verified by the BATF and is absolute bullshit. The date for the Form 1 approval has NOTHING to do with the pre/post-ban status of the weapon.
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 8:14:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2002 8:15:57 AM EDT by Steve-in-VA]
Ditto- that is utter bullshit and bad info. Also- just remembered this came up on the old board and I wrote a letter to ATF. They wrote back and confirmed that such a notion is bullshit (not in those words exactly). Have the letter if anyone wants to see.
Link Posted: 3/22/2002 7:52:08 PM EDT
Hey Steve, do yo uhave the letter scanned? If so, could you e-mail it to me?? Thanks!! [smoke]
Link Posted: 3/23/2002 4:41:45 AM EDT
No, but we have a scanner in the office (that's where the letter is anyway), so I can do it Monday. Or, if you like, I can just fax it. Your choice.
Link Posted: 3/23/2002 11:16:42 AM EDT
All you are doing on the Form-1 is registering the serial # to allow the lower to "sport" a barreled upper less than 16"..BEEN THERE, DONE THAT..1998 registration of my rifle, ATF wanted to know current configuration,, APPROVED and no restrictions noted on the Form-1 in the box at bottom. You can use any length barrel on a SBR, long or short. SBR on a Pre-Ban can use a Pre or Post configured upper. SBR on a Post-Ban can only use a Post-Ban upper.
Link Posted: 3/23/2002 10:32:21 PM EDT
I'll take an e-mail if you don't mind!! Thanks steve!! [smoke]
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 10:08:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hydguy: I'll take an e-mail if you don't mind!! Thanks steve!! [smoke]
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Sorry, No can do on the email. Our scanner is tits up. I just faxed it to someone; you want me to fax to you? Steve
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 3:41:58 PM EDT
Steve, I'll PM you the fax number tomorow when I go to work. I don't know the number off the top of my head.
Link Posted: 3/25/2002 7:07:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Steve-in-VA: Sorry, No can do on the email. Our scanner is tits up. I just faxed it to someone; you want me to fax to you? Steve
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Thanks Steve, fax said pretty much what I thought it would,,arived fine. Hal
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