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Posted: 8/8/2005 8:09:01 AM EDT

I spoke with an infantryman recently returned from Iraq yesterday. He told me that he worked with an EOD unit overseas which purchased DSA SA58s for their personnel. I think he even said they had the desert camo Duracoat finish.

Anyone else ever heard of this? I remember seeing one pic a LONG time ago of a US SF soldier clearing some horse stables with a FAL, but that's the last I ever saw of it.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:14:44 AM EDT
I can believe that, The fal is an excellent weapon.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:17:11 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:17:28 AM EDT
Sounds like someone who's into FAL's decided to make up a story to make their favorite weapon sound relevent in the current scheme of things.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:17:54 AM EDT
tagged for more info
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:19:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 8:22:12 AM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By jb241970:
Sounds like someone who's into FAL's decided to make up a story to make their favorite weapon sound relevent in the current scheme of things.



Thats often the case. Most grunts will have no clue who made them let alone what rifle it is. This sounds like a guy who is already into guns making up stuff.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:19:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jb241970:
Sounds like someone who's into FAL's decided to make up a story to make their favorite weapon sound relevent in the current scheme of things.



right, the FAL was such a POS it was only used by 60+ countries
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:20:18 AM EDT
i've been around the .mil for years and years and have never seen more non-issue stuff floating around than now. we seem to be on some kinda testing/spending binge for the combat arms mos, which is a good thing in my book and about damn time!
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:20:47 AM EDT
Most of the FAL stories I heard from Iraq, have been about rigs being purchased there. Real FN and Styer stuff.
But, DSA did submit FALs for evaluation for the SASS program.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:26:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fourays2:

Originally Posted By jb241970:
Sounds like someone who's into FAL's decided to make up a story to make their favorite weapon sound relevent in the current scheme of things.



right, the FAL was such a POS it was only used by 60+ countries



+1
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:27:14 AM EDT
FALs (real ones from FN and Steyr) are all over the Kurdish-populated northern regions of Iraq, and have been for decades.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:31:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
FALs (real ones from FN and Steyr) are all over the Kurdish-populated northern regions of Iraq, and have been for decades.



Wasn't it Turkey's standard rifle?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:35:21 AM EDT
IIRC
DSA had such a long wait time for their USA made para stock system was because they had a mil order for rifles, and they wanted to get those done first. They stated pretty much that over on Jen's board
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:36:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fourays2:

Originally Posted By jb241970:
Sounds like someone who's into FAL's decided to make up a story to make their favorite weapon sound relevent in the current scheme of things.



right, the FAL was such a POS it was only used by 60+ countries



No one's arguing that, the question is are they being used/evaluated NOW. That's what would have been made up.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:37:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:40:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 8:41:19 AM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By shotar:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
FALs (real ones from FN and Steyr) are all over the Kurdish-populated northern regions of Iraq, and have been for decades.



Wasn't it Turkey's standard rifle?



It was the standard rifle of the entire western world except us of course. We didn't want to know about anything but that updated garand.



Yea, stupid us... we insist on the M-14 which also happens to be a better rifle
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:42:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By shotar:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
FALs (real ones from FN and Steyr) are all over the Kurdish-populated northern regions of Iraq, and have been for decades.



Wasn't it Turkey's standard rifle?



It was the standard rifle of the entire western world except us of course. We didn't want to know about anything but that updated garand.



Yea, stupid us... we insist on the M-14 which also happens to be a better rifle



Except it's not. The FAL is a much better weapon.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:45:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By shotar:
It was the standard rifle of the entire western world except us of course. We didn't want to know about anything but that updated garand.


Yea, stupid us... we insist on the M-14 which also happens to be a better rifle


I am a fan of both. Given the choice, if my life depended upon it, I'd choose the FAL.

As I said above, I am a big fan of both rifles.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:45:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 8:47:34 AM EDT by ArmedAggie]
Less than a page to devolve into another M-14/FAL debate. Now where did I put that popcorn...

ETA: It's like ringing a bell for Pavlov's dog.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:46:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By shotar:
It was the standard rifle of the entire western world except us of course. We didn't want to know about anything but that updated garand.


Yea, stupid us... we insist on the M-14 which also happens to be a better rifle


I am a fan of both. Given the choice, if my life depended upon it, I'd choose the FAL.

As I said above, I am a big fan of both rifles.



You are well armed with either.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:48:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By shotar:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
FALs (real ones from FN and Steyr) are all over the Kurdish-populated northern regions of Iraq, and have been for decades.



Wasn't it Turkey's standard rifle?



It was the standard rifle of the entire western world except us of course. We didn't want to know about anything but that updated garand.



Yea, stupid us... we insist on the M-14 which also happens to be a better rifle



Except it's not. The FAL is a much better weapon.



+1 Had both, sold my M1a and now have three fals
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:50:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
You are well armed with either.


No one is saying otherwise. I think.

Some of us are simply saying that the FAL's engineering and design features make it...better.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:50:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
FALs (real ones from FN and Steyr) are all over the Kurdish-populated northern regions of Iraq, and have been for decades.



Wasn't it Turkey's standard rifle?



When I was in Turkey all I saw were G3's
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:51:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By shotar:
[quote]Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
FALs (real ones from FN and Steyr) are all over the Kurdish-populated northern regions of Iraq, and have been for decades.



Wasn't it Turkey's standard rifle?



It was the standard rifle of the entire western world except us of course. We didn't want to know about anything but that updated garand.



Yea, stupid us... we insist on the M-14 which also happens to be a better rifle



Except it's not. The FAL is a much better weapon.

+1

Our T48 FAL was superior in almost every way...NIH syndrome killed it more than anything else.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:53:07 AM EDT
I'm a big fan of the AR15 philosophy on the M1A vs. FAL debate.

I got both. I like 'em both, too.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:53:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
You are well armed with either.


No one is saying otherwise. I think.

Some of us are simply saying that the FAL's engineering and design features make it...better.






Neither has anything on the Automat Kalashnikov
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:54:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SirDrinksAlot:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
You are well armed with either.


No one is saying otherwise. I think.

Some of us are simply saying that the FAL's engineering and design features make it...better.






Neither has anything on the Automat Kalashnikov



Well not under 50 yds that is.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:54:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 8:55:32 AM EDT by Wobblin-Goblin]

Originally Posted By SirDrinksAlot:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Some of us are simply saying that the FAL's engineering and design features make it...better.


Neither has anything on the Automat Kalashnikov


Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:59:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By SirDrinksAlot:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
You are well armed with either.


No one is saying otherwise. I think.

Some of us are simply saying that the FAL's engineering and design features make it...better.






Neither has anything on the Automat Kalashnikov



Well not under 250 yds that is.



Fixed it for you.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:01:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Well not under 250 yds that is.


Fixed it for you.


Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:02:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By SirDrinksAlot:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
You are well armed with either.


No one is saying otherwise. I think.

Some of us are simply saying that the FAL's engineering and design features make it...better.






Neither has anything on the Automat Kalashnikov



Well not under 250 yds that is.



Fixed it for you.



After 50 yds the .308 rules over the 7.62x39. It rules over it at under 50 yds also, but the ak can put down more rds. You might be able to hit a man size target with an ak at 250yds ( I can so I know many can) but, not with the precision or effectivness of the .308.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:02:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Well not under 250 yds that is.


Fixed it for you.





Think your laughing now?

Wait until Rem700PSS comes in.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:02:35 AM EDT
I have a hard time believing that.

Why would EOD want a larger weapon like that? EOD, by doctrine, does not go out and engage the enemy and most definitly does not at long ranges. Most would be more than happy with pistols or M4's. A large weapon just makes it harder for them to do thier job.

There is not tactical need for EOD to have a .308. And definitly not need for them to go out and buy a non-standard arm with no logistical support.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:15:22 AM EDT
It is to be said that our supply sergeant and XO were going through the 'catalogue' trying to find weird things to order that we could try out under the Army's 'combat evaluation programme'. Never got to the extent of new rifles though. We didn't need them, however, we had more weapons than we knew what to do with.

Locally acquired weapons are not unusual, I don't know about getting FALs through the system, but I don't see it as impossible.

NTM
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:16:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SirDrinksAlot:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
You are well armed with either.


No one is saying otherwise. I think.

Some of us are simply saying that the FAL's engineering and design features make it...better.






Neither has anything on the Automat Kalashnikov



Except range, penetration, better sights, and in the FAL's case superior ergonomics.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:24:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By shotar:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
FALs (real ones from FN and Steyr) are all over the Kurdish-populated northern regions of Iraq, and have been for decades.



Wasn't it Turkey's standard rifle?



It was the standard rifle of the entire western world except us of course. We didn't want to know about anything but that updated garand.



Yea, stupid us... we insist on the M-14 which also happens to be a better rifle



Yeah, it worked so well as a general service weapon that they began trying to fix it, gave up, and finally replaced it within 20 years. Meanwhile the Fal served and is still serving many countries for a long time.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:26:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By SirDrinksAlot:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
You are well armed with either.


No one is saying otherwise. I think.

Some of us are simply saying that the FAL's engineering and design features make it...better.






Neither has anything on the Automat Kalashnikov



Well not under 250 yds that is.



Fixed it for you.




sure, if your target is a village, or a heard of camels.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:27:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SirDrinksAlot:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
You are well armed with either.


No one is saying otherwise. I think.

Some of us are simply saying that the FAL's engineering and design features make it...better.






Neither has anything on the Automat Kalashnikov



What with its great sights and peerless accuracy, how could you go wrong?

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:30:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
I have a hard time believing that.

Why would EOD want a larger weapon like that? EOD, by doctrine, does not go out and engage the enemy and most definitly does not at long ranges. Most would be more than happy with pistols or M4's. A large weapon just makes it harder for them to do thier job.

There is not tactical need for EOD to have a .308. And definitly not need for them to go out and buy a non-standard arm with no logistical support.



Finally some one who knows what they're talking about. +1

Bomber
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:13:15 PM EDT
The guy behind the counter at the gun shop said when he was at SEAL summer camp, they were issuing Hesse FAL's to the troops heading to Iraq, and I better buy one before they all dry up!
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:17:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fourays2:

Originally Posted By jb241970:
Sounds like someone who's into FAL's decided to make up a story to make their favorite weapon sound relevent in the current scheme of things.



right, the FAL was such a POS it was only used by 60+ countries



Actually it was a lot more than 60.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:18:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By SirDrinksAlot:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
You are well armed with either.


No one is saying otherwise. I think.

Some of us are simply saying that the FAL's engineering and design features make it...better.






Neither has anything on the Automat Kalashnikov



Well not under 250 ft that is.



Fixed it for you.



After 50 yds the .308 rules over the 7.62x39. It rules over it at under 50 yds also, but the ak can put down more rds. You might be able to hit a man size target with an ak at 250yds ( I can so I know many can) but, not with the precision or effectivness of the .308.



There that's better.
More gas for the fire
I sold my M1a and I will fight to keep my FAL
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:28:40 PM EDT
In .308, I'll take my AR10s and my Savage 10FP. Not knocking the others, just my preferences.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:29:21 PM EDT
AR15?
FAL?
AK-47?

PffffT!!

Samozaryadnyi Karabin Sistemi Simonova Obrazets 1945 BABY!!
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:30:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
AR15?
FAL?
AK-47?

PffffT!!

Samozaryadnyi Karabin Sistemi Simonova Obrazets 1945 BABY!!




oooh, is that the gun al pachino used in heat?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:32:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
AR15?
FAL?
AK-47?

PffffT!!

Samozaryadnyi Karabin Sistemi Simonova Obrazets 1945 BABY!!



Damn, that SKS rules over every other rifle in the history of mankind!
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:34:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 4:35:41 PM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By KA3B:
AR15?
FAL?
AK-47?

PffffT!!

Samozaryadnyi Karabin Sistemi Simonova Obrazets 1945 BABY!!



Got 3 of those, one Norinco, 2 Yugos, no Russian. Absolutely cannot beat them insofar as bang for the buck goes. Absolutely reliable and I love the 10 round stripper clips. Beats the hell out of messing with a mag on it. Been there, done that, no thanks.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:37:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
FALs (real ones from FN and Steyr) are all over the Kurdish-populated northern regions of Iraq, and have been for decades.



Wasn't it Turkey's standard rifle?



When I was in Turkey all I saw were G3's



+1. I had a G3 pointed at me when I got too close to the fence.....oops
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:41:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 5:16:46 PM EDT by eodtech2000]

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
I have a hard time believing that.

Why would EOD want a larger weapon like that? EOD, by doctrine, does not go out and engage the enemy and most definitly does not at long ranges. Most would be more than happy with pistols or M4's. A large weapon just makes it harder for them to do thier job.

There is not tactical need for EOD to have a .308. And definitly not need for them to go out and buy a non-standard arm with no logistical support.



I would extremely doubt that Army EOD especially 52nd Ord Grp would go out and buy FAL's as they are cheap fuckers.

You are correct Garand_Shooter, EOD personnel prefer M4 sized weapons as they are much easier to handle on the job. For example EOD personal squat down alot to look at ordnance, with an M-16 or larger weapon, you have to be aware of your muzzle or butt if you have it slung across your back, you don't want to be hitting any UXO's inadvertantly. EOD is also very dependant on other units for security, a typical Army EOD team is about 3 EOD techs, hell a EOD Company if its lucky is only about 21 personnel. (What a joke, a Company that is only the size of a Platoon)

EOD could use a 7.62 Sniper rifle to be used to shoot and disrupt small ordnance items, the Barrett is overkill and its better suited for larger ordnance.

As far as engaging enemy at long range, one of my EOD buddy's was quite well known for shooting Skinny's with a Barrett and a M-14 in Somalia. He also killed the Egyptian Army's goat that was to be used for some ROP ceremony.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:42:08 PM EDT
As if whatever rifle a grunt is using in BFE, Asscrackistan has anything to do with me sitting here finger-fucking some pristine rifles and putting them back in the safe.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:59:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
i've been around the .mil for years and years and have never seen more non-issue stuff floating around than now. we seem to be on some kinda testing/spending binge for the combat arms mos, which is a good thing in my book and about damn time!



Sounds like alot of gear is bought by the GIs themselves, or their families, also.

Great opportunity to try things out though.
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