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9/6/2015 7:34:26 PM EDT
Why don't the laity get wine as part of the Eucharist?
9/6/2015 7:38:50 PM EDT
[#1]




Quoted:





Why don't the laity get wine as part of the Eucharist?
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Not sure what you're talking about; they have it for the laity at my church and every Catholic church I've been to.  I think when I was younger (20+ years ago) they may not have had it at my church, but I don't really remember.





Most attendees decline it, however.




ETA: I dated a Lutheran girl once and her church had separate little shot glasses of wine for everyone.  I think if they had that at my church more people would take the wine.



 
9/6/2015 7:40:31 PM EDT
[#2]
One of the churches in town switched to grape juice when the Priest joined AA.
9/6/2015 7:43:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Why don't the laity get wine as part of the Eucharist?
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They (we) do get wine during Eucharist in Mass.

So I don't understand your question.
9/6/2015 7:46:02 PM EDT
[#4]
everyone gets wine at communion, even the youngest members that can take communion are offered wine. you don't have to take it, but it is always there, always has been in my lifetime.
9/6/2015 7:48:52 PM EDT
[#5]
At a church I used to go to in NW Ohio, everyone drank from the same chalice, even the children.

They do water the wine down (some people who don't know much about Catholic Mass may not be aware of this)
9/6/2015 7:50:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Why don't the laity get wine as part of the Eucharist?
View Quote


Because it's difficult to maintain the purity of something that is handed off to multiple people so that it touches all of their mouths.  The Eucharist is supposed to be handled very carefully, and the priests are supposed to purify their hands before touching it and purify their hands and the vessels used afterwards.  It should be noted that in Catholic theology, the body contains the blood and the blood contains the body, so no matter which one you get, you are getting the whole thing.  My parish is one of those that does not give the blood to the laity.  The body is only given on the tongue by the clergy, as well, and the clergy is very careful about purification before and after.  In the homilies on the Eucharist, there is an emphasis on the fact that committing a grievous sin by one's own volition and in the knowledge of its sinfulness and gravity, or committing an outright mortal sin, makes one unworthy to receive, and anyone the priest knows to be in a condition of mortal sin will not be given communion.

My old parish (which is my geographical parish) was very different.  We had Eucharistic ministers that were minimall trained, did not have to purify before or after, and which failed to understand the sanctity of the Eucharist (and thus on occasion some of the less knowledgeable mixed consecrated and unconsecrated hosts for communion when they ran low).  The priest did not purify before or afterwards.  Women were also allowed to be Eucharistic ministers.  That parish does do both the body and blood to for all of those at Mass eligible to receive it.  The priest also preaches that it is okay for those who under Catholic theology to receive the Eucharist to in fact take the Eucharist, and they will not deny it to anyone, even those they know not to be worthy recipients.
9/6/2015 7:52:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote History
Quoted:
At a church I used to go to in NW Ohio, everyone drank from the same chalice, even the children.

They do water the wine down (some people who don't know much about Catholic Mass may not be aware of this)
View Quote


They add a few drops of holy water.  I've never seen it more watered down than that, and it's never tasted like it was watered down.  IIRC, it's a symbolic act.
9/6/2015 8:00:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote History
Quoted:
At a church I used to go to in NW Ohio, everyone drank from the same chalice, even the children.

They do water the wine down (some people who don't know much about Catholic Mass may not be aware of this)
View Quote


Serious question: Nobody was worried about spreading various contagious illnesses?
9/6/2015 8:14:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Why don't the laity get wine as part of the Eucharist?
View Quote



In most churches they do. Back before people became paranoid about transmittable diseases most everybody imbibed. It fell out of popularity in many of the churches I've visited but came back and all seem to either do the share and wipe from the chalice or they bring out a whole bunch of little shotglasses.
9/6/2015 8:25:17 PM EDT
[#10]
This thread has about zero factual information about the Catholic Church or the Church's practices.

So, it's spot on for Arfcom.

See "y'all" at the liquor store (but don't look my way).
9/6/2015 8:31:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote History
Quoted:


They (we) do get wine during Eucharist in Mass.

So I don't understand your question.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Why don't the laity get wine as part of the Eucharist?


They (we) do get wine during Eucharist in Mass.

So I don't understand your question.

9/6/2015 8:37:40 PM EDT
[#12]
If you want wine as well, you can.
Growing up you got bread dipped in wine.




I've seen some churches with a line for bread and another for wine




I saw one where you got bread then did a side step and got a Drink of wine.






9/6/2015 8:39:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Why don't the laity get wine as part of the Eucharist?
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What was in the cup I was holding at mass Saturday night?
9/6/2015 8:40:34 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't offered, but it has been offered for several decades.
9/6/2015 8:43:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Wine isn't often done partly due to time. Simply receiving the bread works as it's still the body/blood/soul/divinity of Christ so just receiving one "species" is fine. My church (which has 10 masses each weekend) only usually does it on special occasions simply because of the sheer number of people (also they tend to run out anyway and somebody then will complain because somebody has to complain about every damn thing).

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Quoted:
One of the churches in town switched to grape juice when the Priest joined AA.
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Quoted:
One of the churches in town switched to grape juice when the Priest joined AA.


Eh, it's a bit more than just grape juice. It's "mustum"

There is, however, a practically non-alcoholic beverage derived from grapes called mustum. This term is defined in the document Norms for Use of Low-Gluten Bread and Mustum, promulgated by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (August 22, 1994): "By ‘mustum’ is understood fresh juice from grapes or juice preserved by suspending its fermentation (by means of freezing or other methods which do not alter its nature)" (§II:C). The prefect at the time, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, issued a more precise clarification of mustum in a circular letter (June 19, 1995) addressed to presidents of episcopal conferences. He elaborated that for grape juice to qualify as mustum, there must be no interference with its inherent tendency to ferment, even if the actual fermentation process is "arrested at an early stage." This restriction would, for instance, exclude pasteurization, which entails enzymatic destruction. (So much for supermarket grape juice.) What matters is that the beverage retain as nearly as possible the intrinsic characteristics of grape wine.

St. Thomas Aquinas offered a more detailed explanation. In Summa Theologiae, the Angelic Doctor draws a critical distinction: The juice of unripe grapes is at the stage of incomplete generation, and therefore it has not yet the species of wine: on which account it may not be used for this sacrament. Must, however, has already the species of wine, for its sweetness indicates fermentation which is the result of its natural heat; consequently this sacrament can be made from must. (III:74:5)


Some kind of fermentation has to take place or it's not wine. And it must be wine. Because Jesus said "wine".

At the EF mass (which I attended today) you only get the Eucharist as far as I know.
9/6/2015 8:47:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote History
Quoted:
Wine isn't often done partly due to time. Simply receiving the bread works as it's still the body/blood/soul/divinity of Christ so just receiving one "species" is fine. My church (which has 10 masses each weekend) only usually does it on special occasions simply because of the sheer number of people (also they tend to run out anyway and somebody then will complain because somebody has to complain about every damn thing).



At the EF mass (which I attended today) you only get the Eucharist as far as I know.
View Quote


I may not be understanding this correctly, but if you mean that you don't need to take the body and wine at every mass or the wine at all except for special occasions, then what you are practicing is NOT Catholicism.
9/6/2015 8:48:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote History
Quoted:


Because it's difficult to maintain the purity of something that is handed off to multiple people so that it touches all of their mouths.  The Eucharist is supposed to be handled very carefully, and the priests are supposed to purify their hands before touching it and purify their hands and the vessels used afterwards.  It should be noted that in Catholic theology, the body contains the blood and the blood contains the body, so no matter which one you get, you are getting the whole thing.  My parish is one of those that does not give the blood to the laity.  The body is only given on the tongue by the clergy, as well, and the clergy is very careful about purification before and after.  In the homilies on the Eucharist, there is an emphasis on the fact that committing a grievous sin by one's own volition and in the knowledge of its sinfulness and gravity, or committing an outright mortal sin, makes one unworthy to receive, and anyone the priest knows to be in a condition of mortal sin will not be given communion.

My old parish (which is my geographical parish) was very different.  We had Eucharistic ministers that were minimall trained, did not have to purify before or after, and which failed to understand the sanctity of the Eucharist (and thus on occasion some of the less knowledgeable mixed consecrated and unconsecrated hosts for communion when they ran low).  The priest did not purify before or afterwards.  Women were also allowed to be Eucharistic ministers.  That parish does do both the body and blood to for all of those at Mass eligible to receive it.  The priest also preaches that it is okay for those who under Catholic theology to receive the Eucharist to in fact take the Eucharist, and they will not deny it to anyone, even those they know not to be worthy recipients.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Why don't the laity get wine as part of the Eucharist?


Because it's difficult to maintain the purity of something that is handed off to multiple people so that it touches all of their mouths.  The Eucharist is supposed to be handled very carefully, and the priests are supposed to purify their hands before touching it and purify their hands and the vessels used afterwards.  It should be noted that in Catholic theology, the body contains the blood and the blood contains the body, so no matter which one you get, you are getting the whole thing.  My parish is one of those that does not give the blood to the laity.  The body is only given on the tongue by the clergy, as well, and the clergy is very careful about purification before and after.  In the homilies on the Eucharist, there is an emphasis on the fact that committing a grievous sin by one's own volition and in the knowledge of its sinfulness and gravity, or committing an outright mortal sin, makes one unworthy to receive, and anyone the priest knows to be in a condition of mortal sin will not be given communion.

My old parish (which is my geographical parish) was very different.  We had Eucharistic ministers that were minimall trained, did not have to purify before or after, and which failed to understand the sanctity of the Eucharist (and thus on occasion some of the less knowledgeable mixed consecrated and unconsecrated hosts for communion when they ran low).  The priest did not purify before or afterwards.  Women were also allowed to be Eucharistic ministers.  That parish does do both the body and blood to for all of those at Mass eligible to receive it.  The priest also preaches that it is okay for those who under Catholic theology to receive the Eucharist to in fact take the Eucharist, and they will not deny it to anyone, even those they know not to be worthy recipients.


My church annoyingly uses a lot of Extraordinary ministers (I hate it and try to avoid them), but they did apparently toss out one lady who decided to show up to First Friday mass in a white dress and a green scarf to provide the Eucharist with one of our Cassock wearing priests. I'm sure there were "words" after mass and I haven't seen her again. The only stereotype she was missing was that she wasn't fat (for anybody that doesn't know, your dissenting feminist women who desire to be Catholic priests (they can't) are traditionally fat boomers with very short grey hair).  But that's the kind of thing you get with the abuse of EMs.
9/6/2015 8:48:20 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
One of the churches in town switched to grape juice when the Priest joined AA.
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Communion wine must be wine made from fermented grapes, the bread must be bread made from wheat flour, all as it was at the Last Supper.
9/6/2015 8:51:13 PM EDT
[#19]
I was raised Catholic and for many years our priest was an old school Irishman. We never were offered wine at mass, just the communion wafer. This would have been in the mid 70s to late 80s.



I don't recall ever going to a Catholic mass where wine was offered.
9/6/2015 8:51:36 PM EDT
[#20]
The church I grew up going to used a cut up load of bread and the priest dunked it in the wine before serving it to each person.
9/6/2015 8:51:42 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
Communion wine must be wine made from fermented grapes, the bread must be bread made from wheat flour, all as it was at the Last Supper.
View Quote


The Episcopal church I went to did little white wafers and watered down wine from a common cup.  They also used various types of bread when they forgot to order more wafers.  The Presbyterian church I went to gave everyone little shot glasses of grape juice and pieces of bread.
9/6/2015 8:52:23 PM EDT
[#22]

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Quoted:
Communion wine must be wine made from fermented grapes, the bread must be bread made from wheat flour, all as it was at the Last Supper.
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Quoted:



Quoted:

One of the churches in town switched to grape juice when the Priest joined AA.




Communion wine must be wine made from fermented grapes, the bread must be bread made from wheat flour, all as it was at the Last Supper.


At the Catholic church where my grandparents lived the priest used grape juice as he was a recovering alcoholic.



 
9/6/2015 8:53:19 PM EDT
[#23]
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They add a few drops of holy water.  I've never seen it more watered down than that, and it's never tasted like it was watered down.  IIRC, it's a symbolic act.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
At a church I used to go to in NW Ohio, everyone drank from the same chalice, even the children.

They do water the wine down (some people who don't know much about Catholic Mass may not be aware of this)


They add a few drops of holy water.  I've never seen it more watered down than that, and it's never tasted like it was watered down.  IIRC, it's a symbolic act.


It is regular tap water - I know because I refill the cruets.

Mixing the water with the wine is a symbol of Christ - what is mixed cannot be separated, true man from true God, Christ from his Church etc.
9/6/2015 8:53:52 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
everyone gets wine at communion, even the youngest members that can take communion are offered wine. you don't have to take it, but it is always there, always has been in my lifetime.
View Quote



I might go back to mass if they start serving Wild Turkey in little shot glasses.
9/6/2015 8:55:45 PM EDT
[#25]
The wine distribution is not mandated by the Vatican (although most parishes do it).



Also I don't think it's done in Traditionalist Catholic masses (Latin).
9/6/2015 8:56:09 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:


I may not be understanding this correctly, but if you mean that you don't need to take the body and wine at every mass or the wine at all except for special occasions, then what you are practicing is NOT Catholicism.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Wine isn't often done partly due to time. Simply receiving the bread works as it's still the body/blood/soul/divinity of Christ so just receiving one "species" is fine. My church (which has 10 masses each weekend) only usually does it on special occasions simply because of the sheer number of people (also they tend to run out anyway and somebody then will complain because somebody has to complain about every damn thing).



At the EF mass (which I attended today) you only get the Eucharist as far as I know.


I may not be understanding this correctly, but if you mean that you don't need to take the body and wine at every mass or the wine at all except for special occasions, then what you are practicing is NOT Catholicism.



All you get in the Extraordinary Form is the wafer. If you actually watch the ceremony, there is a comingling of bread and wine, so it's all together.
9/6/2015 8:56:24 PM EDT
[#27]

What's more important, recognition of the gift of salvation?  


Or the legalism of every single step, congregation goes to Hell if the Priest puts out grape juice instead of wine?


Or everybody gets a thimble cup of Welch's instead of drinking wine from the same chalice that wasn't consecrated properly by the assistant clergy?


9/6/2015 8:57:14 PM EDT
[#28]

Quote History
Quoted:
It is regular tap water - I know because I refill the cruets.





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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

At a church I used to go to in NW Ohio, everyone drank from the same chalice, even the children.



They do water the wine down (some people who don't know much about Catholic Mass may not be aware of this)




They add a few drops of holy water.  I've never seen it more watered down than that, and it's never tasted like it was watered down.  IIRC, it's a symbolic act.




It is regular tap water - I know because I refill the cruets.









Wrong. To correctly make Holy water you must take the tap water and boil the hell out of it.



 
9/6/2015 8:57:46 PM EDT
[#29]

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Wrong. To correctly make Holy water you must take the tap water and boil the hell out of it.

 
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

At a church I used to go to in NW Ohio, everyone drank from the same chalice, even the children.



They do water the wine down (some people who don't know much about Catholic Mass may not be aware of this)




They add a few drops of holy water.  I've never seen it more watered down than that, and it's never tasted like it was watered down.  IIRC, it's a symbolic act.




It is regular tap water - I know because I refill the cruets.









Wrong. To correctly make Holy water you must take the tap water and boil the hell out of it.

 




 
9/6/2015 8:58:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote History
Quoted:
My church annoyingly uses a lot of Extraordinary ministers (I hate it and try to avoid them), but they did apparently toss out one lady who decided to show up to First Friday mass in a white dress and a green scarf to provide the Eucharist with one of our Cassock wearing priests. I'm sure there were "words" after mass and I haven't seen her again. The only stereotype she was missing was that she wasn't fat (for anybody that doesn't know, your dissenting feminist women who desire to be Catholic priests (they can't) are traditionally fat boomers with very short grey hair).  But that's the kind of thing you get with the abuse of EMs.
View Quote


I won't say I hate it, but I've always been annoyed by that as well.
9/6/2015 9:01:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote History
Quoted:


The Episcopal church I went to did little white wafers and watered down wine from a common cup.  They also used various types of bread when they forgot to order more wafers.  The Presbyterian church I went to gave everyone little shot glasses of grape juice and pieces of bread.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Communion wine must be wine made from fermented grapes, the bread must be bread made from wheat flour, all as it was at the Last Supper.


The Episcopal church I went to did little white wafers and watered down wine from a common cup.  They also used various types of bread when they forgot to order more wafers.  The Presbyterian church I went to gave everyone little shot glasses of grape juice and pieces of bread.


Exact same story here.  Episcopal was a long time ago and I was to young to know where I was.
9/6/2015 9:04:05 PM EDT
[#32]
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I might go back to mass if they start serving Wild Turkey in little shot glasses.
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Quoted:
everyone gets wine at communion, even the youngest members that can take communion are offered wine. you don't have to take it, but it is always there, always has been in my lifetime.



I might go back to mass if they start serving Wild Turkey in little shot glasses.

And pretzels.
9/6/2015 9:06:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Every parish is a little different. The local parish where I went to college offered the body and blood every mass. The parish I attend usually only offers the body (the priest and deacon consume the body and blood, the previous pastor offered the blood to the Eucharistic minister as well)- with the exception of one mass a year when the blood is also made available to everybody.

I consume the body every mass I attend. I have never consumed the blood.
9/6/2015 9:06:16 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:


I may not be understanding this correctly, but if you mean that you don't need to take the body and wine at every mass or the wine at all except for special occasions, then what you are practicing is NOT Catholicism.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Wine isn't often done partly due to time. Simply receiving the bread works as it's still the body/blood/soul/divinity of Christ so just receiving one "species" is fine. My church (which has 10 masses each weekend) only usually does it on special occasions simply because of the sheer number of people (also they tend to run out anyway and somebody then will complain because somebody has to complain about every damn thing).



At the EF mass (which I attended today) you only get the Eucharist as far as I know.


I may not be understanding this correctly, but if you mean that you don't need to take the body and wine at every mass or the wine at all except for special occasions, then what you are practicing is NOT Catholicism.


The mass I attended today was a Tridentine Mass done according to Pope Benedict 16th apostolic letter Summorum Pontificum. You never, as far as I know, get the blood at that style of Mass.

The Priest must take both forms, because you must do something with the Blood. But the laity does not. What you're describing (requiring all to have both) is an old heresy known as Utraquism.  Check the Council of Trent.

Take a look at the Tridentine Profession of faith (also called the Creed of Pius IV) written by Pope Pius IV in Iniunctum nobis in 1564.

I, N., with firm faith believe and profess all and everything which is contained in the creed of faith, which the holy Roman Church uses, namely: I believe * in one God the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages, God of God, light of light, true God of true God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father, by whom all things were made; who for us men and for our salvation descended from heaven, and became incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man; he was also crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and he rose on the third day according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven; he sitteth at the right hand of the Father, and will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose kingdom there shall be no end; and in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who together with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified; who spoke through the prophets; and in one holy Catholic and apostolic Church. I confess one baptism for the remission of sins, and I await the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

The apostolic and ecclesiastical traditions and all other observances and constitutions of that same Church I most firmly admit and embrace. I likewise accept Holy Scripture according to that sense which our holy Mother Church has held and does hold, whose [office] it is to judge of the true meaning and interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures; I shall never accept nor interpret it otherwise than in accordance with the unanimous consent of the Fathers.

I also profess that there are truly and properly seven sacraments of the New Law instituted by Jesus Christ our Lord, and necessary for the salvation of mankind, although not all are necessary for each individual; these sacraments are baptism, confirmation, the Eucharist, penance, extreme unction, order, and matrimony; and [I profess] that the- confer grace, and that of these baptism, confirmation, and order cannot be repeated without sacrilege. I also receive and admit the accepted and approved rites of the Catholic Church in the solemn administration of all the aforesaid sacraments. I embrace and accept each and everything that has been defined and declared by the holy Synod of Trent concerning original sin and justification.

I also profess that in the Mass there is offered to God a true, proper sacrifice of propitiation for the living and the dead, and that in the most holy sacrament of the Eucharist there is truly, really, and substantially present the body and blood together with the soul and the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that there takes place a conversion of the whole substance of bread into the body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the blood; and this conversion the Catholic Church calls transubstantiation. I also acknowledge that under one species alone the whole and entire Christ and the true sacrament are taken.

I steadfastly hold that a purgatory exists, and that the souls there detained are aided by the prayers of the faithful; likewise that the saints reigning together with Christ should be venerated and invoked, and that they offer prayers to God for us, and that their relics should be venerated. I firmly assert that the images of Christ and of the Mother of God ever Virgin, and also of the other saints should be kept and retained, and that due honor and veneration should be paid to them; I also affirm that the power of indulgences has been left in the Church by Christ, and that the use of them is especially salutary for the Christian people.

I acknowledge the holy Catholic and apostolic Roman Church as the mother and teacher of all churches; and to the Roman Pontiff, the successor of the blessed Peter, chief of the Apostles and vicar of Jesus Christ, I promise and swear true obedience.

Also all other things taught, defined, and declared by the sacred canons and ecumenical Councils, and especially by the sacred and holy Synod of Trent, (and by the ecumenical Council of the Vatican, *particularly concerning the primacy of the Roman Pontiff and his infallible teaching), I without hesitation accept and profess; and at the same time all things contrary thereto, and whatever heresies have been condemned, and rejected, and anathematized by the Church, I likewise condemn, reject, and anathematize. This true Catholic faith, outside of which no one can be saved, (and) which of my own accord I now profess and truly hold, I, N., do promise, vow, and swear that I will, with the help of God, most faithfully retain and profess the same to the last breath of life as pure and inviolable, and that I will take care as far as lies in my power that it be held, taught, and preached by my subjects or by those over whom by virtue of my office I have charge, so help me God, and these holy Gospels of God.


http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/12/not-exactly-rcia-and-sharing-your-feelings/

Also, of course:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm

1390 Since Christ is sacramentally present under each of the species, communion under the species of bread alone makes it possible to receive all the fruit of Eucharistic grace. For pastoral reasons this manner of receiving communion has been legitimately established as the most common form in the Latin rite. But "the sign of communion is more complete when given under both kinds, since in that form the sign of the Eucharistic meal appears more clearly."225 This is the usual form of receiving communion in the Eastern rites.


So, yeah, Catholic.
9/6/2015 9:06:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote History
Quoted:
What's more important, recognition of the gift of salvation?  


Or the legalism of every single step, congregation goes to Hell if the Priest puts out grape juice instead of wine?


Or everybody gets a thimble cup of Welch's instead of drinking wine from the same chalice that wasn't consecrated properly by the assistant clergy?


View Quote


Not sure if this is a weak trolling attempt or a weak straw man.
9/6/2015 9:08:08 PM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:
What's more important, recognition of the gift of salvation?  


Or the legalism of every single step, congregation goes to Hell if the Priest puts out grape juice instead of wine?


Or everybody gets a thimble cup of Welch's instead of drinking wine from the same chalice that wasn't consecrated properly by the assistant clergy?


View Quote


Jesus said wine.

Far be it for us to correct Him.
9/6/2015 9:09:08 PM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:


I may not be understanding this correctly, but if you mean that you don't need to take the body and wine at every mass or the wine at all except for special occasions, then what you are practicing is NOT Catholicism.
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Wine isn't often done partly due to time. Simply receiving the bread works as it's still the body/blood/soul/divinity of Christ so just receiving one "species" is fine. My church (which has 10 masses each weekend) only usually does it on special occasions simply because of the sheer number of people (also they tend to run out anyway and somebody then will complain because somebody has to complain about every damn thing).



At the EF mass (which I attended today) you only get the Eucharist as far as I know.


I may not be understanding this correctly, but if you mean that you don't need to take the body and wine at every mass or the wine at all except for special occasions, then what you are practicing is NOT Catholicism.


From USCCB

When one receives from the chalice, the same proclamation is made by the person distributing Communion and the Communicant again responds, "Amen." It should be noted that it is never permissible for a person to dip the host he or she has received into the chalice. If, for some reason, the communicant is not able or willing to drink from the cup then that person should receive only under the form of bread.
9/6/2015 9:11:49 PM EDT
[#38]
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The church I grew up going to used a cut up load of bread and the priest dunked it in the wine before serving it to each person.
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Intinction.

Most Latin Rite parishes don't do it as only the Priest can and it excludes the Extraordinary Ministers we've all had to deal with. My wife's seen it once at a daily mass, I never have.

Some other Rites in the Catholic church (Maronites, I believe) always do it. I think.
9/6/2015 9:14:37 PM EDT
[#39]


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One of the churches in town switched to grape juice when the Priest joined AA.
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Alcoholic priests may obtain permission to use mustum, a product that
consists of grape juice fermented just enough to be called wine, but not
enough to have a substantial amount of alcohol. Why not google "mustum"
and learn how it's made, etc.





It's not grape juice.



ETA: And the priest must ask permission to use mustum.





 
9/6/2015 9:15:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Only one species is required for communion, both species is optional.

There are many reasons why wine may be omitted as a species of communion for the congregation, if they request it not be offered, they may not wish to incur the expense, etc.

However it does have to be wine, grape juice may not be substituted.

That said, if a clergy improperly administers a sacrament and it was still presented and received in good faith, the sacrament is considered valid.

Ie: if a priest gives you grape juice or in his old age or forgets part of the mass, the sacrament is held as valid for those who in good faith received the sacrament.
9/6/2015 9:15:15 PM EDT
[#41]
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All you get in the Extraordinary Form is the wafer. If you actually watch the ceremony, there is a comingling of bread and wine, so it's all together.
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Wine isn't often done partly due to time. Simply receiving the bread works as it's still the body/blood/soul/divinity of Christ so just receiving one "species" is fine. My church (which has 10 masses each weekend) only usually does it on special occasions simply because of the sheer number of people (also they tend to run out anyway and somebody then will complain because somebody has to complain about every damn thing).



At the EF mass (which I attended today) you only get the Eucharist as far as I know.


I may not be understanding this correctly, but if you mean that you don't need to take the body and wine at every mass or the wine at all except for special occasions, then what you are practicing is NOT Catholicism.



All you get in the Extraordinary Form is the wafer. If you actually watch the ceremony, there is a comingling of bread and wine, so it's all together.


I understand that, and I did not mean to offend anyone, but the taking of both the blood and the body WAS the ancient way of the Church until well into the 13th century. It is how the Scripture is written, how the early Church proceeded, and how Vatican II felt the practice should be reinstated. Now, I understand that BOTH masses are considered to be "one" by the Church, but I feel that receiving the blood and body at each Mass is vital. Again, it is indeed Catholic, but not a Catholicism I am comfortable with.
9/6/2015 9:20:33 PM EDT
[#42]
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Wine isn't often done partly due to time. Simply receiving the bread works as it's still the body/blood/soul/divinity of Christ so just receiving one "species" is fine. My church (which has 10 masses each weekend) only usually does it on special occasions simply because of the sheer number of people (also they tend to run out anyway and somebody then will complain because somebody has to complain about every damn thing).



Eh, it's a bit more than just grape juice. It's "mustum"



Some kind of fermentation has to take place or it's not wine. And it must be wine. Because Jesus said "wine".

At the EF mass (which I attended today) you only get the Eucharist as far as I know.
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Quoted:
Wine isn't often done partly due to time. Simply receiving the bread works as it's still the body/blood/soul/divinity of Christ so just receiving one "species" is fine. My church (which has 10 masses each weekend) only usually does it on special occasions simply because of the sheer number of people (also they tend to run out anyway and somebody then will complain because somebody has to complain about every damn thing).

Quoted:
One of the churches in town switched to grape juice when the Priest joined AA.


Eh, it's a bit more than just grape juice. It's "mustum"

There is, however, a practically non-alcoholic beverage derived from grapes called mustum. This term is defined in the document Norms for Use of Low-Gluten Bread and Mustum, promulgated by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (August 22, 1994): "By ‘mustum’ is understood fresh juice from grapes or juice preserved by suspending its fermentation (by means of freezing or other methods which do not alter its nature)" (§II:C). The prefect at the time, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, issued a more precise clarification of mustum in a circular letter (June 19, 1995) addressed to presidents of episcopal conferences. He elaborated that for grape juice to qualify as mustum, there must be no interference with its inherent tendency to ferment, even if the actual fermentation process is "arrested at an early stage." This restriction would, for instance, exclude pasteurization, which entails enzymatic destruction. (So much for supermarket grape juice.) What matters is that the beverage retain as nearly as possible the intrinsic characteristics of grape wine.

St. Thomas Aquinas offered a more detailed explanation. In Summa Theologiae, the Angelic Doctor draws a critical distinction: The juice of unripe grapes is at the stage of incomplete generation, and therefore it has not yet the species of wine: on which account it may not be used for this sacrament. Must, however, has already the species of wine, for its sweetness indicates fermentation which is the result of its natural heat; consequently this sacrament can be made from must. (III:74:5)


Some kind of fermentation has to take place or it's not wine. And it must be wine. Because Jesus said "wine".

At the EF mass (which I attended today) you only get the Eucharist as far as I know.


Conservative parishes tend to maintain that practice in the Ordinary Form.
9/6/2015 9:21:38 PM EDT
[#43]

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At a church I used to go to in NW Ohio, everyone drank from the same chalice, even the children.



They do water the wine down (some people who don't know much about Catholic Mass may not be aware of this)
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The water added to the wine is due to the water that issued forth from the side of Christ at the crucifixion. It is a very small amount.

It is believe to have been instituted by Christ at the last supper in align with the customs of the Jews in that region.



 
9/6/2015 9:22:00 PM EDT
[#44]
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It is regular tap water - I know because I refill the cruets.

Mixing the water with the wine is a symbol of Christ - what is mixed cannot be separated, true man from true God, Christ from his Church etc.
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At a church I used to go to in NW Ohio, everyone drank from the same chalice, even the children.

They do water the wine down (some people who don't know much about Catholic Mass may not be aware of this)


They add a few drops of holy water.  I've never seen it more watered down than that, and it's never tasted like it was watered down.  IIRC, it's a symbolic act.


It is regular tap water - I know because I refill the cruets.

Mixing the water with the wine is a symbol of Christ - what is mixed cannot be separated, true man from true God, Christ from his Church etc.


It's holy water at my parish.  That was even that case at my more liberal former parish.
9/6/2015 9:23:10 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote History
Quoted:


I understand that, and I did not mean to offend anyone, but the taking of both the blood and the body WAS the ancient way of the Church until well into the 13th century. It is how the Scripture is written, how the early Church proceeded, and how Vatican II felt the practice should be reinstated. Now, I understand that BOTH masses are considered to be "one" by the Church, but I feel that receiving the blood and body at each Mass is vital. Again, it is indeed Catholic, but not a Catholicism I am comfortable with.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wine isn't often done partly due to time. Simply receiving the bread works as it's still the body/blood/soul/divinity of Christ so just receiving one "species" is fine. My church (which has 10 masses each weekend) only usually does it on special occasions simply because of the sheer number of people (also they tend to run out anyway and somebody then will complain because somebody has to complain about every damn thing).



At the EF mass (which I attended today) you only get the Eucharist as far as I know.


I may not be understanding this correctly, but if you mean that you don't need to take the body and wine at every mass or the wine at all except for special occasions, then what you are practicing is NOT Catholicism.



All you get in the Extraordinary Form is the wafer. If you actually watch the ceremony, there is a comingling of bread and wine, so it's all together.


I understand that, and I did not mean to offend anyone, but the taking of both the blood and the body WAS the ancient way of the Church until well into the 13th century. It is how the Scripture is written, how the early Church proceeded, and how Vatican II felt the practice should be reinstated. Now, I understand that BOTH masses are considered to be "one" by the Church, but I feel that receiving the blood and body at each Mass is vital. Again, it is indeed Catholic, but not a Catholicism I am comfortable with.



That's fine that you feel that way, but the Catechism says you only need to receive one species. To say that only receiving one species is not "practicing Catholicism" is false and misleading.
9/6/2015 9:25:33 PM EDT
[#46]
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I won't say I hate it, but I've always been annoyed by that as well.
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My church annoyingly uses a lot of Extraordinary ministers (I hate it and try to avoid them), but they did apparently toss out one lady who decided to show up to First Friday mass in a white dress and a green scarf to provide the Eucharist with one of our Cassock wearing priests. I'm sure there were "words" after mass and I haven't seen her again. The only stereotype she was missing was that she wasn't fat (for anybody that doesn't know, your dissenting feminist women who desire to be Catholic priests (they can't) are traditionally fat boomers with very short grey hair).  But that's the kind of thing you get with the abuse of EMs.


I won't say I hate it, but I've always been annoyed by that as well.


I used to be one for a long time (I suppose technically I'm still commissioned), but at this point I oppose the practice and don't find it to be a good practice.

Our Bishop tried to force my current parish to have Eucharistic ministry and allow women to participate in the mass as EMs, altar servers, etc.  The diocese put sign ups in the church, even.  No parishioners signed op for EM, and no female parishioners signed up for the other ministries involved in the Mass (other than the choir).  The Bishop was upset, but got the message.
9/6/2015 9:27:37 PM EDT
[#47]
And it is all symbolism over substance.  For any one to live, they must both eat and drink.  Jesus was merely stating live in remembrance of Me, as in every single moment of your life you are to live like He lived.  





The whole symbology of the Eucharist and derivations sphere of, like some kind of membership benefit of being a paying member of a church, is wholly antithetical to the movement Christ brought to Earth.







Faith is a good thing, religious dogma kills it.  Makes people worship a tome instead of an idea.


 
9/6/2015 9:28:37 PM EDT
[#48]

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It's holy water at my parish.  That was even that case at my more liberal former parish.
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

At a church I used to go to in NW Ohio, everyone drank from the same chalice, even the children.



They do water the wine down (some people who don't know much about Catholic Mass may not be aware of this)




They add a few drops of holy water.  I've never seen it more watered down than that, and it's never tasted like it was watered down.  IIRC, it's a symbolic act.




It is regular tap water - I know because I refill the cruets.



Mixing the water with the wine is a symbol of Christ - what is mixed cannot be separated, true man from true God, Christ from his Church etc.




It's holy water at my parish.  That was even that case at my more liberal former parish.
Holy water is not usually used nor is it a requirement in the ordinary of the mass.  



 
9/6/2015 9:31:21 PM EDT
[#49]
The Orthodox give both the bread and the wine, to those who go up for Communion (after adequate preparation, which ideally includes fasting and confession). The bread alone (called the "antidoron" -- "in lieu of the Gifts") is given to all attendees at the conclusion of the service.

One difference between the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics is that the Orthodox use leavened bread and the Catholics unleavened bread (wafers). The Catholic practice is based on the fact that the Last Supper was a Passover Seder, at which the Jews would have used unleavened bread. The Orthodox, on the other hand, deliberately use leavened bread to denote a clean break from the Jewish practice.

Neither the Catholics nor the Orthodox will, strictly speaking, commune Protestants or others who are deemed "heterodox." (Communicants have to be within the same "community of faith.") Catholics will commune Orthodox, but not the other way around. However, it's considered a confessable sin for Orthodox to accept communion in a Catholic church, so in practice it doesn't happen except by ignorance or mistake.

It goes without saying that it's a serious sin for Orthodox to take communion in a Protestant church. It's a particularly egregious heresy to substitute grape juice or any other fluid for the sacramental wine. The wine must be alcoholic (although it's usually watered down). Take that, you Presbyterians with your little glasses of grape juice!
9/6/2015 9:33:02 PM EDT
[#50]
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Serious question: Nobody was worried about spreading various contagious illnesses?
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At a church I used to go to in NW Ohio, everyone drank from the same chalice, even the children.

They do water the wine down (some people who don't know much about Catholic Mass may not be aware of this)


Serious question: Nobody was worried about spreading various contagious illnesses?


The chalice is usually silver, which has natural antibiotic characteristics. However, in Lutheran churches, many also offer the wine in communion cups. I've been told other denominations do as well. But your fear is unfounded.
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