Posted: 11/28/2008 7:05:52 AM EDT
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Bama's thread about the lawyer that got tased just reminded me that I haven't posted this anywhere yet.
Our department just got a taser (for now, there are several more in the works). Last week our SWAT team went through the training, then this week it was supervisors and FTO's. Took the full 5 second ride, with probes, and am supposed to be getting the copy of the video to prove it. The entire team did it, but only 3 of the Supervisors and FTO's took the ride. Who here has the opinion that if you ARE going to carry and deploy you should take the ride and who feels it's okay to not... just like I don't want to get shot to carry a gun... |
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Quoted:
Bama's thread about the lawyer that got tased just reminded me that I haven't posted this anywhere yet. Our department just got a taser (for now, there are several more in the works). Last week our SWAT team went through the training, then this week it was supervisors and FTO's. Took the full 5 second ride, with probes, and am supposed to be getting the copy of the video to prove it. The entire team did it, but only 3 of the Supervisors and FTO's took the ride. Who here has the opinion that if you ARE going to carry and deploy you should take the ride and who feels it's okay to not... just like I don't want to get shot to carry a gun... I can see the utility of getting maced during training for LEO, after all you may be wrestling around on the ground trying to recover your weapon from a perp after spraying and need to know what that feels like, but (aside from the entertainment value) I can't see the value in tasing trainees. |
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I was tased about 5 years ago, and I recommend it to all who carry them for several reasons:
(1) It allows you to understand the pain this can/does inflict on the person being tased. This often helps you when applying different level of force as it pertains to force matrix. (2) It also lets you know how bad it could be for the bad guy to get your taser, or even grab for it. Again knowing how temporarily incapacitating this thing is allows you to adjust your use of force if a bad guy were to go for it. (3) Liability...that's what our job is all about. It gives you credibility on the stand when some asshat defense attorney counters with :"Well officer you tased my client because he wasn't listening to you. You have no idea how much pain you inflicted on him do you?" or "My client received permanent physical and emotional disability as a result of being tased." You chime in with "Well it didn't hurt me at all when I was tased, I recovered in about 60 seconds." |
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I think some people need to nut and take the ride.
besides everything that was previously mentioned. each one of us tased that does not die builds stats so that when billy bad ass dies after getting coked up, it makes it harder for his family to come back a say the taser killed him and not the coke. and a big plus 1 on doing it to get a good understanding of how the thing works. I don't think comparing this to getting shot to carry a gun is apples to apples. |
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I am not a cop.
Electricity is my biggest phobia. I'd take the full ride so long as I trusted the guy pulling the trigger (I know one guy I'd trust absolutely.) I'd only do it for a training video to help cops, though. Of course, if that video ended up on Arfcom, well, it'd be pretty damned funny. |
| in my dept it was optional. I took the ride, piece of advice let them shoot you, don't take the one tong + drive stun, or the probe on either ankle. The larger area between probes the more pain. But definately worth doing. Just look on youtube of all the officers tasing themselves, also gives you an idea just how incapacitating it is. OC hurts but at best slows you down, taser entirely immobilizes you, its good to know that first hand. |
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I chose to take it.
My unit does not even have them or have future plans to adopt them. We are very old school in this regard. However while training with some other local agencies the opportunity presented itself to me and I accepted. Gave me a new and deep felt appreciation for these things that you can't possibly comprehend from watching a video or studying a powerpoint. |
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For our agency it's voluntary *cough cough/mandatory*. They say it's voluntary, but in the 6 years we've had them, nobody's ever not gotten hit. We don't do the probes for training though, we do aligator clips, one clipped to your sock, one to your shoulder––-so the jolt locks up everything in between.
+1 for all the reasons you should do it. Gives you a bit of credibility when you testify––-plus, I'd have no issue with killing someone that either took my taser or pointed one at me, and I can only say that because I know the effects of being tased...the pain in temporary. T1 |
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Tased, OC'd, beat with a PR24, slammed, hit, kicked, flipped and an ASP.
I can see both sides. At least if it ever comes up in court you can play the video. Mine rocks! 
ETA: Also if yours is taken away from you during a fight I think it lends credibility to using deadly force on the perp. |
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Quoted:
I was tased about 5 years ago, and I recommend it to all who carry them for several reasons: (1) It allows you to understand the pain this can/does inflict on the person being tased. This often helps you when applying different level of force as it pertains to force matrix. (2) It also lets you know how bad it could be for the bad guy to get your taser, or even grab for it. Again knowing how temporarily incapacitating this thing is allows you to adjust your use of force if a bad guy were to go for it. (3) Liability...that's what our job is all about. It gives you credibility on the stand when some asshat defense attorney counters with :"Well officer you tased my client because he wasn't listening to you. You have no idea how much pain you inflicted on him do you?" or "My client received permanent physical and emotional disability as a result of being tased." You chime in with "Well it didn't hurt me at all when I was tased, I recovered in about 60 seconds." I agree. My Chief's favorite saying about this is that you don't have to be shot with your gun to carry it.  I would prefer to get hit with it for the above reasons.
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Quoted:
I was tased about 5 years ago, and I recommend it to all who carry them for several reasons: (1) It allows you to understand the pain this can/does inflict on the person being tased. This often helps you when applying different level of force as it pertains to force matrix. (2) It also lets you know how bad it could be for the bad guy to get your taser, or even grab for it. Again knowing how temporarily incapacitating this thing is allows you to adjust your use of force if a bad guy were to go for it. (3) Liability...that's what our job is all about. It gives you credibility on the stand when some asshat defense attorney counters with :"Well officer you tased my client because he wasn't listening to you. You have no idea how much pain you inflicted on him do you?" or "My client received permanent physical and emotional disability as a result of being tased." You chime in with "Well it didn't hurt me at all when I was tased, I recovered in about 60 seconds." Perfect, especially #3. Kinda takes the wind out of their sails when you say, "yes I've been tasered and no nothing happened". They try to build that jury sympathy but putting yourself in the same place as their client makes them look like whiney bitches. |
Just like OC spray. ... Wana spray someone, you need to be sprayed. According to lawyers it looks better when you say I know first hand what it does when you show them you've been through it also. OC and Tasers are supposed to be considered less than leathal, but your point of to carry a gun, you need to be shot, well thats deadly force, so no you shouldn't be practicing that.
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Liability Conscious is fine, but IMO you NEED to know how quickly one can recover and resume the fight along with how you REALLY are at anothers mercy when you're lit up.
Our's was optional. Most managers didn't, the troops were about 80%. I got one alligator clip as I was "fighting/grappling" with one of the Lieutenants, he got the other. I was definately incapacitated. I just REALLY didn't want another hit right afterward. |
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Quoted:
I was tased about 5 years ago, and I recommend it to all who carry them for several reasons: (1) It allows you to understand the pain this can/does inflict on the person being tased. This often helps you when applying different level of force as it pertains to force matrix. (2) It also lets you know how bad it could be for the bad guy to get your taser, or even grab for it. Again knowing how temporarily incapacitating this thing is allows you to adjust your use of force if a bad guy were to go for it. (3) Liability...that's what our job is all about. It gives you credibility on the stand when some asshat defense attorney counters with :"Well officer you tased my client because he wasn't listening to you. You have no idea how much pain you inflicted on him do you?" or "My client received permanent physical and emotional disability as a result of being tased." You chime in with "Well it didn't hurt me at all when I was tased, I recovered in about 60 seconds." My sheriff made it optional, however all of the road units took the full 5 seconds with the probes. Everyone else carrying them backed out. I was 1 of 2 in my instructors class of 14 that volunteered for it. I felt that if I was going to hit any of my guys with it I wanted them to see that I had been there done that. |
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Should have added a "both" option in your poll.
I took the full 5 second ride with the probes, and I would encourage you to do so as well. However, it does hurt like hell and everyone knows it. If you don't feel the need to experience that, just to say you did, I'm ok with that. Oh yeah, and the alligator clips suck. The metal isn't in contact with skin, so it arcs and the burns are much worse. If you do it, request the probes. |
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Guess I wasn't clear enough in my first post. I DID take the full 5 second ride, as well as everyone on the SWAT Team. It was more of a question about how other agencies and officers look at REQUIRING Officers to take a ride, or if most feel it's okay not to...
It seems from most of the postings that the regular line officers and end-users are more than willing to take the ride, to understand what it's all about, and to add that into their toolbox, while the Supervisors, administrators, and others seem to NOT want to take the ride. Interesting... 
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Quoted:
Guess I wasn't clear enough in my first post. I DID take the full 5 second ride, as well as everyone on the SWAT Team. It was more of a question about how other agencies and officers look at REQUIRING Officers to take a ride, or if most feel it's okay not to... It seems from most of the postings that the regular line officers and end-users are more than willing to take the ride, to understand what it's all about, and to add that into their toolbox, while the Supervisors, administrators, and others seem to NOT want to take the ride. Interesting... You were clear, my reading comprehension just sucks a little... And by the way, I took the first hit in class and I'm admin. 
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Quoted:
Bama's thread about the lawyer that got tased just reminded me that I haven't posted this anywhere yet. Our department just got a taser (for now, there are several more in the works). Last week our SWAT team went through the training, then this week it was supervisors and FTO's. Took the full 5 second ride, with probes, and am supposed to be getting the copy of the video to prove it. The entire team did it, but only 3 of the Supervisors and FTO's took the ride. Who here has the opinion that if you ARE going to carry and deploy you should take the ride and who feels it's okay to not... just like I don't want to get shot to carry a gun... Umm, screw THAT! When I had my taser training, one of the first officers to stand up and take it was a HUGE dude, looked like a brick shithouse, he cried like a bitch! 3 more officers stood up and each got it, It was sad to see what a taser can reduce a grown up cop to. After the object lesson, I opted out to experience that. I was already a believer when the first officer took it. I've drive tased a guy that was cuffed and kicking against the one of the doors in the back of the car, he sniveled like a bitch and was stiff as a board when I zapped him. Hell, I didn't even dart him and he reacted like that. I sure am glad I didn't volunteer to "ride the lightning" and I don't need to when it comes in believing that tasers work. Nah, I'd rather bitch out... Thanks all the same. I still haven't had to dart anyone, but I've let some rowdies see the electricity arc across the contact probes when I pull the cartridge out, makes believers out of them, by the time I pop the cartridge back in, they're all KITTENS! Nobody wants any part of that. If I am ever on the wrong side of the law and a cop points a taser at me? No need to dart me, I'll wash and wax your fuckin' car! I'll cuff myself and hop in the backseat of your car like a grateful puppy! Just keep that damn taser to yourself. In the immortal words of some dipshit... "Don't tase me bro"! |
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I'm a firm believer in being subjected to whatever tool you are carrying..short of a firearm. Apparently you are a really firm believer...you used your first post in almost three years on the subject... Ok, fine! With that logic, I volunteer HIM to carry a diamond wood straight baton according to HIS training principles.
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I personally think that it should be required (adds creditbilty on the witness stand, helps in justification of both non lethal and lethal force if you are disarmed etc) if you are gonna carry one, but Taser international stopped requiring it of instructors a couple of years ago. I tried to get our chief to require it of everyone at our dept when we first got em but there was to much belly aching so he didnt. He however was the very first in line to get hit when we did training and about 1/2 of our 45 person dept took it, including Lts and Sgts. Even got a few who swore they would not do it and then changed their minds after seeing others go through. we have had a couple of new hires after we trained as a dept and they have taken the hit too.
I took the full 5 seconds, probes in the back plus a seperate 3 point contact hit while in the instructor class. Doesnt really fit what I consider pain but sucks all the same, LMAO. I am a firm beleiver in ECD's and a big part of it was my taking the hit and seeing that it really does work as stated. J- |
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I personally think that it should be required (adds creditbilty on the witness stand, helps in justification of both non lethal and lethal force if you are disarmed etc) if you are gonna carry one, but Taser international stopped requiring it of instructors a couple of years ago. I tried to get our chief to require it of everyone at our dept when we first got em but there was to much belly aching so he didnt. He however was the very first in line to get hit when we did training and about 1/2 of our 45 person dept took it, including Lts and Sgts. Even got a few who swore they would not do it and then changed their minds after seeing others go through. we have had a couple of new hires after we trained as a dept and they have taken the hit too. I took the full 5 seconds, probes in the back plus a seperate 3 point contact hit while in the instructor class. Doesnt really fit what I consider pain but sucks all the same, LMAO. I am a firm beleiver in ECD's and a big part of it was my taking the hit and seeing that it really does work as stated. J- Your admin did the right thing. There is no positive outcome from requiring it. The people that don't want to take the ride would increase their bellyaching tenfold if you forced them to take the ride. They would bad mouth your admin, your instructors, and the Taser itself. Some of them would probably carry their protests so far as to grieve the policy to the union or to flat refuse to ever use the Taser in an operational setting. Shame on them for acting like children, but face it, we have some children in our ranks and they're not going to go away. Then what have you accomplished. You'll have poisoned the well. You'll have deprived officers that might have otherwise benefitted from the use of the Taser from using a tool that might save theirs or some elses life. And on top of that, you'll have damaged your instructors and your admin's reputations in your own agency. It's just not worth it when you can encourage people that want to take the ride to do so and allow those that don't to opt out. And as far as additional credibility on the stand, thats BS. There is enough credible evidence that the Taser works that quality, documented training is more than sufficient to establish the users qualifications and credibility. Don't get me wrong, I think officers SHOULD be encouraged to take the ride. I even shamed a few guys into taking the ride. I just don't believe that requiring it accomplishes anything positive. |
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took it -5 seconds- hated it.... but it was worth every second if i ever go to court on it...
"yes I am well aware of the physical effects of the TASER system as i have been tased myself, your client was well beyond other means of physical restraint and for our saftey and his/hers i deployed the TASER and stopped the situation immediatly" |