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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 2/12/2006 8:53:20 PM EDT
OK, I generally hang out in the handgun forum as that's my passion. Why do I hang out in a place called ar15.com when I'm a pistol guy? Good question.

I've been playing w/ the idea of getting an automatic rifle for SHTF purposes, and I know squat about rifles. Here's where you come in. What would you suggest? Here are some parameters.

1. Must be reliable
2. compact is good
3. only needs to be accurate enough for SD
4. cost well under a grand.

I of course would fondle/try out before buying and I have no intention of catching black rifle disease.

What do you think?

thanks
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:57:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By InheritedAnArsenal:
....I have no intention of catching black rifle disease.



Thats what we've all said in the past!

To answer your question, CAR15 style - A1 sights, 4 position CAR stock, 11.5" w/ 5.5 flash suppressor.

Or, you could go with a 14.5" to 16" barrel - but I always liked the weight/compactness of the original CAR15.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:57:46 PM EDT
duh....

an AR

h/w, an AK works just fine too (w/ folding stock, its more compact than more rifle length ARs too and cost less than $500)



Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:00:38 PM EDT
That's tough question to answer, since you haven't specified a caliber or any personal preferences.

A good bet right at the moment for a reliable rifle in the caliber of your choice at a good price would be a saiga, especially if you want a 7.62, since they're available again now.

If you want to spend more get an AR in 5.56 or a FAL in 7.62.

Rifle that best meets your needs as stated is probably an M4 type AR15.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:03:22 PM EDT
Build a uzi.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:04:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By InheritedAnArsenal:


I of course would fondle/try out before buying and I have no intention of catching black rifle disease.


Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:13:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 9:14:09 PM EDT by DK-Prof]
I'd suggest a 16" midlength AR (perhaps built by RRA) which is a relatively short package (with the stock collapsed), and 5.56mm will mess up anyone's day at self-defense ranges (due to fragmentation).

In addition, you'll still have the option of a precise rifle if you feel like shooting at longer ranges - with the excellent accuracy of the AR system, and the relatively good iron sights. I'd recommend getting a flat-top version with a detachable handle or iron sights, so that you cen get optic later if you decide on that (just to keep your options open).


A stock RRA midlength shouldn't cost more than $800-$850 in my estimate.

CMMG also build a really nice 16" midlength AR that might be worth looking at - and are a great company.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:14:51 PM EDT
I have no clue on caliber. How about something that doesn't cost a fortune?

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Please keep them coming.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:17:27 PM EDT
Sig 556
~Dg84
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:19:27 PM EDT
What is a fortune? If you're looking for as cheap as possible maybe an SKS?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:22:06 PM EDT
Oh for petes sakes, spend a grand.

Armalite, Bushmaster or Rock River Arms.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:23:20 PM EDT
M1 Carbine!
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:25:22 PM EDT
Well a grand will not let you touch any AUTOMATIC rifles. You can get several semi-automatic weapons for that price. But class III stuff will cost you at least 2-4 grand to start.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:25:26 PM EDT
16" AR15
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:26:35 PM EDT
Get a High Point carbine.

<­BR>


Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:26:43 PM EDT
An SKS like joker just said.

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:27:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By InheritedAnArsenal:
I have no clue on caliber. How about something that doesn't cost a fortune?

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Please keep them coming.



If you are looking to keep cost down and still have something that fits your criteria, pick up a Vector AK.

In the long run you will buy more anyhow.

My personal opinion is an AR is a good choice for a first semi-auto carbine but the AK would work out fine also.

You can get a WASR for about $300 which is a AK built by Century. I am not too impressed with most of their stuff but a lot of people like them. I'd go with Vector. If you want to go more upscale look at Arsenal Inc.

FWIW, I am pretty sure you can get full length ARs for less $ than M4 types.
I just took one out this past week I hadn't shot before, A2 model, and it was a fricking tack driver. Colt.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:47:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 10:00:14 PM EDT by Spyda]
SHTF rifles under a grand;

$50-100 - M44 bolt Rifle in 7.62x54R. Cheap, powerful ammo and an attached bayonet.


$125-250 - Yugo SKS in 7.62x39. Cheap ammo, attached ten shot mag and bayonet.


$350-500 - AK47 in 7.62x39. Cheap ammo and 30rd mags. Tuff and easy to care for.


$600+ FAL in .308. Cheap 20rd mags. A great battle rifle. Heavy and reliable.


$600+ AR15 in .223. 30rd mags. Light in most forms, with the most accessories.


$1000+ M1A in .308. 20rd mags. Pricy, great battle rifle with the right parts.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:48:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 9:55:11 PM EDT by HarrySacz]

Originally Posted By Spyda:
SHTF rifles under a grand;

$50-100 - M44 bolt Rifle in 7.62x54R. Cheap, powerful ammo and an attached bayonet.


$125-250 - Yugo SKS in 7.62x39. Cheap ammo, attached ten shot mag and bayonet.
www.surplusrifle.com/sks/graphics/full.jpg

$350-500 - AK47 in 7.62x39. Cheap ammo and 30rd mags. Tuff and easy to care for.
world.guns.ru/assault/ak_54.jpg

$600+ FAL in .308. Cheap 20rd mags. A great battle rifle. Heavy and reliable.
world.guns.ru/assault/fal_imbel.jpg

$600+ AR15 in .223. 30rd mags. Light in most forms, with the most accessories.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d1/Ar-15sp1.jpg

$1000+ M1A in .308. 20rd mags. Pricy, great battle rifle with the right parts.
www.fulton-armory.com/M14BlackLamBlue.jpg



Might wanna change that top one
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:54:11 PM EDT
No kidding.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:01:56 PM EDT
Rock River Arms A4 carbine, mid length gas system, stainless steel barrel just like this:

RRA CAR A4 midlength
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:03:01 PM EDT
Given your criteria your best bet is an AK.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:13:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By InheritedAnArsenal:
I have no intention of catching black rifle disease.

What do you think?




Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:59:11 PM EDT
Great suggestions guys.

I was farting around and came across the Kel-Tec SU-16. It's in 223 Rem, folds up and sounds nifty. Also, looks like I can get a new one for under $500 out the door. Thoughts?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:02:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 1:03:29 PM EDT by x5060]
Try an AK



im building this one and i still have it under 350$

It will be TOTAL, 22 inches long.

Reciever is comming in this week.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:17:04 PM EDT
since you said must be reliable as number one

your best choice would be an AK47
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:38:00 PM EDT
Kel-Tec?



AK. Those telling you this are giving you good advice and there is a lot of good advice here.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:20:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spyda:
SHTF rifles under a grand;

$50-100 - M44 bolt Rifle in 7.62x54R. Cheap, powerful ammo and an attached bayonet.


$125-250 - Yugo SKS in 7.62x39. Cheap ammo, attached ten shot mag and bayonet.


$350-500 - AK47 in 7.62x39. Cheap ammo and 30rd mags. Tuff and easy to care for.


$600+ FAL in .308. Cheap 20rd mags. A great battle rifle. Heavy and reliable.


$600+ AR15 in .223. 30rd mags. Light in most forms, with the most accessories.


$1000+ M1A in .308. 20rd mags. Pricy, great battle rifle with the right parts.




+1 on the above. I will add that you can build an AR-15 for around $500 if that is what your budget allows and you are willing to take the time to shop for parts and tinker. Its not that hard.

If budget is a primary consideration, I'd take the SKS. I have 2 AR-15s (built both on Eagle Arms lowers), an FAL, and 2 SKSs. The SKSs are for my non-gun afficianado relatives if need be.

My opinion, remove the damn bayonet and replace the wood stock with a lighter synthetic one. Other than that, no problem.

YMMV
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:22:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By InheritedAnArsenal:
OK, I generally hang out in the handgun forum as that's my passion. Why do I hang out in a place called ar15.com when I'm a pistol guy? Good question.

I've been playing w/ the idea of getting an automatic rifle for SHTF purposes, and I know squat about rifles. Here's where you come in. What would you suggest? Here are some parameters.

1. Must be reliable
2. compact is good
3. only needs to be accurate enough for SD
4. cost well under a grand.

I of course would fondle/try out before buying and I have no intention of catching black rifle disease.

What do you think?

thanks



Got upwards of 5K to spend? Got the time for all the NFA bullshit?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:23:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 2:24:36 PM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By Spyda:
SHTF rifles under a grand;

$50-100 - M44 bolt Rifle in 7.62x54R. Cheap, powerful ammo and an attached bayonet.


$125-250 - Yugo SKS in 7.62x39. Cheap ammo, attached ten shot mag and bayonet.


$350-500 - AK47 in 7.62x39. Cheap ammo and 30rd mags. Tuff and easy to care for.


$600+ FAL in .308. Cheap 20rd mags. A great battle rifle. Heavy and reliable.


$600+ AR15 in .223. 30rd mags. Light in most forms, with the most accessories.


$1000+ M1A in .308. 20rd mags. Pricy, great battle rifle with the right parts.



In his post, he specified an automatic. You gonna get any of those in full auto for those prices?

Kinda hard to get that M44 in full auto.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:24:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Oh for petes sakes, spend a grand.

Armalite, Bushmaster or Rock River Arms.



What he said.

You only pay for quality ONCE!
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:26:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Spyda:
SHTF rifles under a grand;

$50-100 - M44 bolt Rifle in 7.62x54R. Cheap, powerful ammo and an attached bayonet.


$125-250 - Yugo SKS in 7.62x39. Cheap ammo, attached ten shot mag and bayonet.


$350-500 - AK47 in 7.62x39. Cheap ammo and 30rd mags. Tuff and easy to care for.


$600+ FAL in .308. Cheap 20rd mags. A great battle rifle. Heavy and reliable.


$600+ AR15 in .223. 30rd mags. Light in most forms, with the most accessories.


$1000+ M1A in .308. 20rd mags. Pricy, great battle rifle with the right parts.



In his post, he specified an automatic. You gonna get any of those in full auto for those prices?

Kinda hard to get that M44 in full auto.



I'm pretty sure he MEANT Semi.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:27:48 PM EDT
Pretty clear he meant semi-auto.
Common novice mistake.

AK
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:28:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 2:30:24 PM EDT by Barrelburner]
Ak-74 with a sidefolding stock.

ETA with a rail for optics mounting.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:31:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Spyda:
SHTF rifles under a grand;

$50-100 - M44 bolt Rifle in 7.62x54R. Cheap, powerful ammo and an attached bayonet.


$125-250 - Yugo SKS in 7.62x39. Cheap ammo, attached ten shot mag and bayonet.


$350-500 - AK47 in 7.62x39. Cheap ammo and 30rd mags. Tuff and easy to care for.


$600+ FAL in .308. Cheap 20rd mags. A great battle rifle. Heavy and reliable.


$600+ AR15 in .223. 30rd mags. Light in most forms, with the most accessories.


$1000+ M1A in .308. 20rd mags. Pricy, great battle rifle with the right parts.



In his post, he specified an automatic. You gonna get any of those in full auto for those prices?

Kinda hard to get that M44 in full auto.



I'm pretty sure he MEANT Semi.



That may be what he meant, but that is not what he said.

Still can't get an M44 in semi.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:35:08 PM EDT
I said I would'nt get the black rifle disease about 5 AR's and 2 AR pistols ago. hopping
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:36:23 PM EDT
Go with an AR. The reason you WANT an AR is versatility. As everyone has stated, you may want to start with a short barrel type, given your current preferences. Fine. But did you know that without any FFL involvement, you can simply get a new upper... and proceed to make an excellent bench gun, or an excellent position shooter. Why, you can even change to pistol calibers or go to 6.8 mm SPC. In other words, if your interests ever shift, your bases are covered and without any FFL hassle.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:39:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By another_shooter:
Go with an AR. The reason you WANT an AR is versatility. As everyone has stated, you may want to start with a short barrel type, given your current preferences. Fine. But did you know that without any FFL involvement, you can simply get a new upper... and proceed to make an excellent bench gun, or an excellent position shooter. Why, you can even change to pistol calibers or go to 6.8 mm SPC. In other words, if your interests ever shift, your bases are covered and without any FFL hassle.



I also think the AR is a great choice but it doesn't really seem he wants to spend the $ for one.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:32:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 5:33:57 AM EDT by InheritedAnArsenal]
yea, sorry guys. I meant semi-auto.

So I guess nobody likes the Kel-Tec, SU-16? That's OK.

Avoiding my FFL and building is starting to grow on me.

thanks for all the good advice so far.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:38:08 AM EDT
You might consider a "fighting" shotgun.

Unless you plan on engageing targets past 50 Meters.

Shotguns are cheap, easy to shoot, and, plentiful.

If you get a 870 or Mossberg 500-90 series, you can spend a bunch
tricking them out, or not, as you wish.

Biggest drawback of an AR is the cost.

Might consider an AK too.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:53:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By InheritedAnArsenal:
yea, sorry guys. I meant semi-auto.

So I guess nobody likes the Kel-Tec, SU-16? That's OK.

Avoiding my FFL and building is starting to grow on me.

thanks for all the good advice so far.




You still have to go thru an FFL for the lower unless you can do some of your own work on an 80% lower. Unless you have a drill press and milling machine that isn't much of an option.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:15:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By InheritedAnArsenal:
Great suggestions guys.

I was farting around and came across the Kel-Tec SU-16. It's in 223 Rem, folds up and sounds nifty. Also, looks like I can get a new one for under $500 out the door. Thoughts?


If I was going to spend $500.00,I'd get something with a proven track record like an AK or an SKS and a BUNCH of ammo/stripperclips. You can probably pick up an SKS for $125.00 or so and that would leave you with $375.00 for ammo . That is a lot of 7.62x39 .
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:20:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By InheritedAnArsenal:

I of course would fondle/try out before buying and I have no intention of catching black rifle disease.






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