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Posted: 2/15/2013 6:56:26 PM EDT
I have been doing a lot of reading on Rhodesia and it's fall into the chaos that is now Zimbabwe lately. My interest was piqued by a couple threads on here and has grown over the last few months. I even watched "Mugabe and the White African" on Netflix the other day which was recommended by someone here.

So.... I have been searching diligently for a Rhodesian flag for the man cave as a conversation piece, as the history of what happened there is fascinating.

During my time scouring the web for an acceptable piece I came to find out that the Rhodesian flag is now associated with Neo-Nazis and Stormfront idiots here in the US. They use what happened there to preach their bullshit...... I would rather not be associated with that kind of thing even though I would imagine most people would have no idea what the flag was anyway.


Here is stupid part in my opinion. Racism is exactly what IS wrong in Zimbabwe (among many, many other things). I don't understand how these idiots associate their ideology with the shitty situation that whites are in in that country. Just using a little objective reasoning you can come to the conclusion that if there were no racism Rhodesia would have been an internationally recognized country and probably would have been around today. Actually, the current government there encourages racism and the fallout surrounding it has ruined the economy and the lives of thousands of people white and black in that country.



Or am I crazy?
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 6:58:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lokifox:
I have been doing a lot of reading on Rhodesia and it's fall into the chaos that is now Zimbabwe lately. My interest was piqued by a couple threads on here and has grown over the last few months. I even watched "Mugabe and the White African" on Netflix the other day which was recommended by someone here.

So.... I have been searching diligently for a Rhodesian flag for the man cave as a conversation piece, as the history of what happened there is fascinating.

During my time scouring the web for an acceptable piece I came to find out that the Rhodesian flag is now associated with Neo-Nazis and Stormfront idiots here in the US. They use what happened there to preach their bullshit...... I would rather not be associated with that kind of thing even though I would imagine most people would have no idea what the flag was anyway.


Here is stupid part in my opinion. Racism is exactly what IS wrong in Zimbabwe (among many, many other things). I don't understand how these idiots associate their ideology with the shitty situation that whites are in in that country. Just using a little objective reasoning you can come to the conclusion that if there were no racism Rhodesia would have been an internationally recognized country and probably would have been around today. Actually, the current government there encourages racism and the fallout surrounding it has ruined the economy and the lives of thousands of people white and black in that country.



Or am I crazy?

Nobody cares about racism on the part of blacks.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:00:40 PM EDT
As if we needed any more proof Stormfags are fucking idiots.

Blacks fought along side the whites in Rhodesia. Facepalm
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:15:10 PM EDT
The problem with allowing racism to go unchecked is that the polar opposite attracts followers who believe their "victim" status validates their position.

Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:18:59 PM EDT
Folks in India are pissed they took their swastika.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:20:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lokifox:
I have been doing a lot of reading on Rhodesia and it's fall into the chaos that is now Zimbabwe lately. My interest was piqued by a couple threads on here and has grown over the last few months. I even watched "Mugabe and the White African" on Netflix the other day which was recommended by someone here.

So.... I have been searching diligently for a Rhodesian flag for the man cave as a conversation piece, as the history of what happened there is fascinating.

During my time scouring the web for an acceptable piece I came to find out that the Rhodesian flag is now associated with Neo-Nazis and Stormfront idiots here in the US. They use what happened there to preach their bullshit...... I would rather not be associated with that kind of thing even though I would imagine most people would have no idea what the flag was anyway.


Here is stupid part in my opinion. Racism is exactly what IS wrong in Zimbabwe (among many, many other things). I don't understand how these idiots associate their ideology with the shitty situation that whites are in in that country. Just using a little objective reasoning you can come to the conclusion that if there were no racism Rhodesia would have been an internationally recognized country and probably would have been around today. Actually, the current government there encourages racism and the fallout surrounding it has ruined the economy and the lives of thousands of people white and black in that country.



Or am I crazy?


In case you hadn't heard, Rhodesia was a racist country.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:22:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By lokifox:
I have been doing a lot of reading on Rhodesia and it's fall into the chaos that is now Zimbabwe lately. My interest was piqued by a couple threads on here and has grown over the last few months. I even watched "Mugabe and the White African" on Netflix the other day which was recommended by someone here.

So.... I have been searching diligently for a Rhodesian flag for the man cave as a conversation piece, as the history of what happened there is fascinating.

During my time scouring the web for an acceptable piece I came to find out that the Rhodesian flag is now associated with Neo-Nazis and Stormfront idiots here in the US. They use what happened there to preach their bullshit...... I would rather not be associated with that kind of thing even though I would imagine most people would have no idea what the flag was anyway.


Here is stupid part in my opinion. Racism is exactly what IS wrong in Zimbabwe (among many, many other things). I don't understand how these idiots associate their ideology with the shitty situation that whites are in in that country. Just using a little objective reasoning you can come to the conclusion that if there were no racism Rhodesia would have been an internationally recognized country and probably would have been around today. Actually, the current government there encourages racism and the fallout surrounding it has ruined the economy and the lives of thousands of people white and black in that country.



Or am I crazy?

Nobody cares about racism on the part of blacks.


Oh snap
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:23:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
Originally Posted By lokifox:
I have been doing a lot of reading on Rhodesia and it's fall into the chaos that is now Zimbabwe lately. My interest was piqued by a couple threads on here and has grown over the last few months. I even watched "Mugabe and the White African" on Netflix the other day which was recommended by someone here.

So.... I have been searching diligently for a Rhodesian flag for the man cave as a conversation piece, as the history of what happened there is fascinating.

During my time scouring the web for an acceptable piece I came to find out that the Rhodesian flag is now associated with Neo-Nazis and Stormfront idiots here in the US. They use what happened there to preach their bullshit...... I would rather not be associated with that kind of thing even though I would imagine most people would have no idea what the flag was anyway.


Here is stupid part in my opinion. Racism is exactly what IS wrong in Zimbabwe (among many, many other things). I don't understand how these idiots associate their ideology with the shitty situation that whites are in in that country. Just using a little objective reasoning you can come to the conclusion that if there were no racism Rhodesia would have been an internationally recognized country and probably would have been around today. Actually, the current government there encourages racism and the fallout surrounding it has ruined the economy and the lives of thousands of people white and black in that country.



Or am I crazy?


In case you hadn't heard, Rhodesia was a racist country.


It was a successful country with a high standard of living for all of its citizens.What is it now?
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:24:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By OKSoda:
As if we needed any more proof Stormfags are fucking idiots.

Blacks fought along side the whites in Rhodesia. Facepalm


The smart blacks did.

They knew which side was the lesser of two evils.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:25:11 PM EDT
The stormfags think correlation equals causation.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:32:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2013 7:34:00 PM EDT by Andrewsky]
Originally Posted By lokifox:
I have been doing a lot of reading on Rhodesia and it's fall into the chaos that is now Zimbabwe lately. My interest was piqued by a couple threads on here and has grown over the last few months. I even watched "Mugabe and the White African" on Netflix the other day which was recommended by someone here.

So.... I have been searching diligently for a Rhodesian flag for the man cave as a conversation piece, as the history of what happened there is fascinating.

During my time scouring the web for an acceptable piece I came to find out that the Rhodesian flag is now associated with Neo-Nazis and Stormfront idiots here in the US. They use what happened there to preach their bullshit...... I would rather not be associated with that kind of thing even though I would imagine most people would have no idea what the flag was anyway.


Here is stupid part in my opinion. Racism is exactly what IS wrong in Zimbabwe (among many, many other things). I don't understand how these idiots associate their ideology with the shitty situation that whites are in in that country. Just using a little objective reasoning you can come to the conclusion that if there were no racism Rhodesia would have been an internationally recognized country and probably would have been around today. Actually, the current government there encourages racism and the fallout surrounding it has ruined the economy and the lives of thousands of people white and black in that country.

Or am I crazy?


How do you not see the connection between pro-white ideology and the story of what happened in Rhodesia and Zimbabwe? There have been many atrocities against white people there.


Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:47:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
Originally Posted By lokifox:
I have been doing a lot of reading on Rhodesia and it's fall into the chaos that is now Zimbabwe lately. My interest was piqued by a couple threads on here and has grown over the last few months. I even watched "Mugabe and the White African" on Netflix the other day which was recommended by someone here.

So.... I have been searching diligently for a Rhodesian flag for the man cave as a conversation piece, as the history of what happened there is fascinating.

During my time scouring the web for an acceptable piece I came to find out that the Rhodesian flag is now associated with Neo-Nazis and Stormfront idiots here in the US. They use what happened there to preach their bullshit...... I would rather not be associated with that kind of thing even though I would imagine most people would have no idea what the flag was anyway.


Here is stupid part in my opinion. Racism is exactly what IS wrong in Zimbabwe (among many, many other things). I don't understand how these idiots associate their ideology with the shitty situation that whites are in in that country. Just using a little objective reasoning you can come to the conclusion that if there were no racism Rhodesia would have been an internationally recognized country and probably would have been around today. Actually, the current government there encourages racism and the fallout surrounding it has ruined the economy and the lives of thousands of people white and black in that country.

Or am I crazy?


How do you not see the connection between pro-white ideology and the story of what happened in Rhodesia and Zimbabwe? There have been many atrocities against white people there.




Sure, because communism and the preferred tactics of the Leninist/Stalinist forces in Africa had nothing to do with what transpired.

It was "pro-white ideology".

Sure.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:53:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:


In case you hadn't heard, Rhodesia was a racist country.




Originally Posted By OKSoda:
As if we needed any more proof Stormfags are fucking idiots.

Blacks fought along side the whites in Rhodesia. Facepalm


Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:53:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2013 7:53:54 PM EDT by Sonoran_Tj]
The short answer on Rhodesia is that racism may have been present, but that communism was the real threat to their way of life. It is disgusting that the rest of the western world ignored that war and let communists take over there.


On another note OP, I got a Rhodesian flag on Amazon, its just a cheap nylon flag that hangs on my wall. It was even prime eligible even though it shipped from England. I bet that cost amazon some money
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:55:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kozaki:

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
Originally Posted By lokifox:
I have been doing a lot of reading on Rhodesia and it's fall into the chaos that is now Zimbabwe lately. My interest was piqued by a couple threads on here and has grown over the last few months. I even watched "Mugabe and the White African" on Netflix the other day which was recommended by someone here.

So.... I have been searching diligently for a Rhodesian flag for the man cave as a conversation piece, as the history of what happened there is fascinating.

During my time scouring the web for an acceptable piece I came to find out that the Rhodesian flag is now associated with Neo-Nazis and Stormfront idiots here in the US. They use what happened there to preach their bullshit...... I would rather not be associated with that kind of thing even though I would imagine most people would have no idea what the flag was anyway.


Here is stupid part in my opinion. Racism is exactly what IS wrong in Zimbabwe (among many, many other things). I don't understand how these idiots associate their ideology with the shitty situation that whites are in in that country. Just using a little objective reasoning you can come to the conclusion that if there were no racism Rhodesia would have been an internationally recognized country and probably would have been around today. Actually, the current government there encourages racism and the fallout surrounding it has ruined the economy and the lives of thousands of people white and black in that country.

Or am I crazy?


How do you not see the connection between pro-white ideology and the story of what happened in Rhodesia and Zimbabwe? There have been many atrocities against white people there.




Sure, because communism and the preferred tactics of the Leninist/Stalinist forces in Africa had nothing to do with what transpired.

It was "pro-white ideology".

Sure.


It's always hard to ascribe motivations to people, and stupid to attribute a war to one cause. Colonialism, the Cold War, race, and economics have all played a part in the ethnic strife in Africa.

Any objective person should realize that Rhodesia as it was from 1965 to 1979 was the best system for that area. Not perfect, but great in many ways.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 7:57:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
Originally Posted By kozaki:

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
Originally Posted By lokifox:
I have been doing a lot of reading on Rhodesia and it's fall into the chaos that is now Zimbabwe lately. My interest was piqued by a couple threads on here and has grown over the last few months. I even watched "Mugabe and the White African" on Netflix the other day which was recommended by someone here.

So.... I have been searching diligently for a Rhodesian flag for the man cave as a conversation piece, as the history of what happened there is fascinating.

During my time scouring the web for an acceptable piece I came to find out that the Rhodesian flag is now associated with Neo-Nazis and Stormfront idiots here in the US. They use what happened there to preach their bullshit...... I would rather not be associated with that kind of thing even though I would imagine most people would have no idea what the flag was anyway.


Here is stupid part in my opinion. Racism is exactly what IS wrong in Zimbabwe (among many, many other things). I don't understand how these idiots associate their ideology with the shitty situation that whites are in in that country. Just using a little objective reasoning you can come to the conclusion that if there were no racism Rhodesia would have been an internationally recognized country and probably would have been around today. Actually, the current government there encourages racism and the fallout surrounding it has ruined the economy and the lives of thousands of people white and black in that country.

Or am I crazy?


How do you not see the connection between pro-white ideology and the story of what happened in Rhodesia and Zimbabwe? There have been many atrocities against white people there.




Sure, because communism and the preferred tactics of the Leninist/Stalinist forces in Africa had nothing to do with what transpired.

It was "pro-white ideology".

Sure.


It's always hard to ascribe motivations to people, and stupid to attribute a war to one cause. Colonialism, the Cold War, race, and economics have all played a part in the ethnic strife in Africa.

Any objective person should realize that Rhodesia as it was from 1965 to 1979 was the best system for that area. Not perfect, but great in many ways.


Evidently this is my signal to sign off and get some sleep.

Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:13:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2013 8:18:18 PM EDT by BUCC_Guy]
Rhodesian flags, you say?

(The Union Jack on the right is marked RNG, for Rhodesia and Nyasaland)


EDIT: Just realized that picture includes a stack of bath towels in back of a 18th-19th century Buddhist temple bell from Burma. I suck at photography.

And, the most expensive one to get shipped in:


(Note that the flag is on a blanket, which you can see on the right. I've been called out for the whole "flag on the ground" thing.)


The original flags are a bitch to track down. Keep an eye on warstore.co.za

The above pictures represent about $1800 worth of purchases, including shipping.

Warstore.co.za has a VERY nice BSAP flag right now. I have to buy a condo soon, or I would have bought it already. I'm always on the lookout for a Rhodesia Nyasaland original flag, though.



Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:14:11 PM EDT
Go to the New Rhodesian forum.

You will find many ex pats. SHOCKINGLY both black and white.


Its a wealth of interesting knowledge.


Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:16:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:


In case you hadn't heard, Rhodesia was a racist country.



Fer fucks sake.....Rhodesia was not a racist country! Don't drink the political kool aide.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:20:39 PM EDT
[span style='font-weight: bold;']

Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


They had very good reasons to "cling" to power. They had seen what had happened in all the countries around them that had gone to black rule (Angola, Mozambique, the Congo, etc.). There was chaos in all those countries. Zimbabwe is an economic disaster.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:24:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']

Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


They had very good reasons to "cling" to power. They had seen what had happened in all the countries around them that had gone to black rule (Angola, Mozambique, the Congo, etc.). There was chaos in all those countries. Zimbabwe is an economic disaster.
Zambia survived ok mate. My mother grew up there pre and post independence. Life went on as normal. Also many years later when Zimbabwe kicked the farmers out Zambia welcomed them.

Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:29:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2013 8:34:21 PM EDT by BUCC_Guy]

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']

Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


They had very good reasons to "cling" to power. They had seen what had happened in all the countries around them that had gone to black rule (Angola, Mozambique, the Congo, etc.). There was chaos in all those countries. Zimbabwe is an economic disaster.

Ian Smith noted multiple times in his memoirs that the Rhodesian government knew majority rule was inevitable, and he also intimated that the South Africans knew the same thing, but stupidly clung to Apartheid. The goal was to get black leaders in place while avoiding both Communism and the typical African strongman. Mugabe embodied both, and was a worst case scenario for the country.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:30:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
Originally Posted By lokifox:
I have been doing a lot of reading on Rhodesia and it's fall into the chaos that is now Zimbabwe lately. My interest was piqued by a couple threads on here and has grown over the last few months. I even watched "Mugabe and the White African" on Netflix the other day which was recommended by someone here.

So.... I have been searching diligently for a Rhodesian flag for the man cave as a conversation piece, as the history of what happened there is fascinating.

During my time scouring the web for an acceptable piece I came to find out that the Rhodesian flag is now associated with Neo-Nazis and Stormfront idiots here in the US. They use what happened there to preach their bullshit...... I would rather not be associated with that kind of thing even though I would imagine most people would have no idea what the flag was anyway.


Here is stupid part in my opinion. Racism is exactly what IS wrong in Zimbabwe (among many, many other things). I don't understand how these idiots associate their ideology with the shitty situation that whites are in in that country. Just using a little objective reasoning you can come to the conclusion that if there were no racism Rhodesia would have been an internationally recognized country and probably would have been around today. Actually, the current government there encourages racism and the fallout surrounding it has ruined the economy and the lives of thousands of people white and black in that country.



Or am I crazy?


In case you hadn't heard, Rhodesia was a racist country.


It was a successful country with a high standard of living for all of its citizens.What is it now?


all of it's citizens?
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:30:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:30:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By retgarr:
The stormfags think correlation equals causation.


this

in the same way they worship Hitler, the stormfags would had been the first to choke on Zyklon B
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:33:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
Originally Posted By lokifox:
I have been doing a lot of reading on Rhodesia and it's fall into the chaos that is now Zimbabwe lately. My interest was piqued by a couple threads on here and has grown over the last few months. I even watched "Mugabe and the White African" on Netflix the other day which was recommended by someone here.

So.... I have been searching diligently for a Rhodesian flag for the man cave as a conversation piece, as the history of what happened there is fascinating.

During my time scouring the web for an acceptable piece I came to find out that the Rhodesian flag is now associated with Neo-Nazis and Stormfront idiots here in the US. They use what happened there to preach their bullshit...... I would rather not be associated with that kind of thing even though I would imagine most people would have no idea what the flag was anyway.


Here is stupid part in my opinion. Racism is exactly what IS wrong in Zimbabwe (among many, many other things). I don't understand how these idiots associate their ideology with the shitty situation that whites are in in that country. Just using a little objective reasoning you can come to the conclusion that if there were no racism Rhodesia would have been an internationally recognized country and probably would have been around today. Actually, the current government there encourages racism and the fallout surrounding it has ruined the economy and the lives of thousands of people white and black in that country.



Or am I crazy?


In case you hadn't heard, Rhodesia was a racist country.


It was a successful country with a high standard of living for all of its citizens.What is it now?


all of it's citizens?

Education, medical care, and manufacturing jobs were leaps and bounds ahead of all neighboring countries for natives in Rhodesia.

There is a completely legitimate argument that the white government had a patronizing or "paternal" view of their native population, but that is far better than the view taken by most minority governments of the time.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:35:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']

Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


They had very good reasons to "cling" to power. They had seen what had happened in all the countries around them that had gone to black rule (Angola, Mozambique, the Congo, etc.). There was chaos in all those countries. Zimbabwe is an economic disaster.

Ian Smith noted multiple times in his memoirs that the Rhodesian government knew majority rule was inevitable, and he also intimated that the South Africans knew the same thing, but stupidly clung to Apartheid. The goal was to get black leaders in place while avoiding both Communism and the typical African strongman. Mugabe embodied both, and was a wost case scenario for the country.


Smith's goal was to keep sizeable white role in the parliment. It was a given they would have a part in the economy.

The Nat's goal was to keep the whites in charge of the economy, wind down the border wars, buffer against the civil wars in the commie countries, and to dangle a carrot to the nationalists that there would be an independence clause for a "homeland". They got all but the last part.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:35:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']

Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


They had very good reasons to "cling" to power. They had seen what had happened in all the countries around them that had gone to black rule (Angola, Mozambique, the Congo, etc.). There was chaos in all those countries. Zimbabwe is an economic disaster.

Ian Smith noted multiple times in his memoirs that the Rhodesian government knew majority rule was inevitable, and he also intimated that the South Africans knew the same thing, but stupidly clung to Apartheid. The goal was to get black leaders in place while avoiding both Communism and the typical African strongman. Mugabe embodied both, and was a worst case scenario for the country.


Do you own a copy of Bitter Harvest?
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:35:40 PM EDT
If you ever go to Zim, you will find the black people there are very racist.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:39:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CaneRat:
If you ever go to Zim, you will find the black people there are very racist.


Don't even have to go that far. Just go to the White House.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:39:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:
Rhodesian flags, you say?

(The Union Jack on the right is marked RNG, for Rhodesia and Nyasaland)

http://imageshack.us/a/img853/8976/imagebmof.jpg
EDIT: Just realized that picture includes a stack of bath towels in back of a 18th-19th century Buddhist temple bell from Burma. I suck at photography.

And, the most expensive one to get shipped in:

http://imageshack.us/a/img268/5225/rhodiefal.jpg
(Note that the flag is on a blanket, which you can see on the right. I've been called out for the whole "flag on the ground" thing.)


The original flags are a bitch to track down. Keep an eye on warstore.co.za

The above pictures represent about $1800 worth of purchases, including shipping.

Warstore.co.za has a VERY nice BSAP flag right now. I have to buy a condo soon, or I would have bought it already. I'm always on the lookout for a Rhodesia Nyasaland original flag, though.



Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


Very cool. Want to sell that flag?
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:39:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']

Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


They had very good reasons to "cling" to power. They had seen what had happened in all the countries around them that had gone to black rule (Angola, Mozambique, the Congo, etc.). There was chaos in all those countries. Zimbabwe is an economic disaster.

Ian Smith noted multiple times in his memoirs that the Rhodesian government knew majority rule was inevitable, and he also intimated that the South Africans knew the same thing, but stupidly clung to Apartheid. The goal was to get black leaders in place while avoiding both Communism and the typical African strongman. Mugabe embodied both, and was a worst case scenario for the country.


Do you own a copy of Bitter Harvest?

Yes.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:39:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
Originally Posted By lokifox:
I have been doing a lot of reading on Rhodesia and it's fall into the chaos that is now Zimbabwe lately. My interest was piqued by a couple threads on here and has grown over the last few months. I even watched "Mugabe and the White African" on Netflix the other day which was recommended by someone here.

So.... I have been searching diligently for a Rhodesian flag for the man cave as a conversation piece, as the history of what happened there is fascinating.

During my time scouring the web for an acceptable piece I came to find out that the Rhodesian flag is now associated with Neo-Nazis and Stormfront idiots here in the US. They use what happened there to preach their bullshit...... I would rather not be associated with that kind of thing even though I would imagine most people would have no idea what the flag was anyway.


Here is stupid part in my opinion. Racism is exactly what IS wrong in Zimbabwe (among many, many other things). I don't understand how these idiots associate their ideology with the shitty situation that whites are in in that country. Just using a little objective reasoning you can come to the conclusion that if there were no racism Rhodesia would have been an internationally recognized country and probably would have been around today. Actually, the current government there encourages racism and the fallout surrounding it has ruined the economy and the lives of thousands of people white and black in that country.



Or am I crazy?


In case you hadn't heard, Rhodesia was a racist country.


It was a successful country with a high standard of living for all of its citizens.What is it now?


all of it's citizens?

Education, medical care, and manufacturing jobs were leaps and bounds ahead of all neighboring countries for natives in Rhodesia.

There is a completely legitimate argument that the white government had a patronizing or "paternal" view of their native population, but that is far better than the view taken by most minority governments of the time.


I'm pretty up to speed on Rhodesian history. Opportunities for blacks, while way ahead of other SSA nations, was not all roses. The conditions for those in the TTA's was deplorable once they started locking the villiages down.

The "paternalistic" system was mainly on the commercial farms.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:41:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']

Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


They had very good reasons to "cling" to power. They had seen what had happened in all the countries around them that had gone to black rule (Angola, Mozambique, the Congo, etc.). There was chaos in all those countries. Zimbabwe is an economic disaster.

Ian Smith noted multiple times in his memoirs that the Rhodesian government knew majority rule was inevitable, and he also intimated that the South Africans knew the same thing, but stupidly clung to Apartheid. The goal was to get black leaders in place while avoiding both Communism and the typical African strongman. Mugabe embodied both, and was a worst case scenario for the country.


Do you own a copy of Bitter Harvest?

Yes.


Look me up if you ever want to move it, or any other Rhodesia or ZA related items.

I'm having a hell of a time finding a copy of bitter harvest.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:41:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lokifox:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:
Rhodesian flags, you say?

(The Union Jack on the right is marked RNG, for Rhodesia and Nyasaland)

http://imageshack.us/a/img853/8976/imagebmof.jpg
EDIT: Just realized that picture includes a stack of bath towels in back of a 18th-19th century Buddhist temple bell from Burma. I suck at photography.

And, the most expensive one to get shipped in:

http://imageshack.us/a/img268/5225/rhodiefal.jpg
(Note that the flag is on a blanket, which you can see on the right. I've been called out for the whole "flag on the ground" thing.)


The original flags are a bitch to track down. Keep an eye on warstore.co.za

The above pictures represent about $1800 worth of purchases, including shipping.

Warstore.co.za has a VERY nice BSAP flag right now. I have to buy a condo soon, or I would have bought it already. I'm always on the lookout for a Rhodesia Nyasaland original flag, though.



Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


Very cool. Want to sell that flag?

No.


I had always wanted an original UDI flag, and then I sort of got hooked and kept buying more. The problem is I have no place to display them. I'm looking to move down south within 12 months, and I want to make a low-light room for light sensitive decorations and collectibles. I have about $20,000 worth of flags and 17th-19th century art that I would like to display, and my Rhodie flags are quite the eye-catchers.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:43:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']

Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


They had very good reasons to "cling" to power. They had seen what had happened in all the countries around them that had gone to black rule (Angola, Mozambique, the Congo, etc.). There was chaos in all those countries. Zimbabwe is an economic disaster.

Ian Smith noted multiple times in his memoirs that the Rhodesian government knew majority rule was inevitable, and he also intimated that the South Africans knew the same thing, but stupidly clung to Apartheid. The goal was to get black leaders in place while avoiding both Communism and the typical African strongman. Mugabe embodied both, and was a worst case scenario for the country.


Do you own a copy of Bitter Harvest?

Yes.


Look me up if you ever want to move it, or any other Rhodesia or ZA related items.

I'm having a hell of a time finding a copy of bitter harvest.

Sheesh.

Want me to tie your shoes for you?

http://www.amazon.com/Bitter-Harvest-Zimbabwe-Aftermath-Independence/dp/1857826043/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:47:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']

Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


They had very good reasons to "cling" to power. They had seen what had happened in all the countries around them that had gone to black rule (Angola, Mozambique, the Congo, etc.). There was chaos in all those countries. Zimbabwe is an economic disaster.

Ian Smith noted multiple times in his memoirs that the Rhodesian government knew majority rule was inevitable, and he also intimated that the South Africans knew the same thing, but stupidly clung to Apartheid. The goal was to get black leaders in place while avoiding both Communism and the typical African strongman. Mugabe embodied both, and was a worst case scenario for the country.


Do you own a copy of Bitter Harvest?

Yes.


Look me up if you ever want to move it, or any other Rhodesia or ZA related items.

I'm having a hell of a time finding a copy of bitter harvest.

Sheesh.

Want me to tie your shoes for you?

http://www.amazon.com/Bitter-Harvest-Zimbabwe-Aftermath-Independence/dp/1857826043/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1


I want the hardcover first edition. Like the one that I saw at Book Barn in Old Lyme a few years back.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:48:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']

Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


They had very good reasons to "cling" to power. They had seen what had happened in all the countries around them that had gone to black rule (Angola, Mozambique, the Congo, etc.). There was chaos in all those countries. Zimbabwe is an economic disaster.

Ian Smith noted multiple times in his memoirs that the Rhodesian government knew majority rule was inevitable, and he also intimated that the South Africans knew the same thing, but stupidly clung to Apartheid. The goal was to get black leaders in place while avoiding both Communism and the typical African strongman. Mugabe embodied both, and was a worst case scenario for the country.


Do you own a copy of Bitter Harvest?

Yes.


Look me up if you ever want to move it, or any other Rhodesia or ZA related items.

I'm having a hell of a time finding a copy of bitter harvest.

Sheesh.

Want me to tie your shoes for you?

http://www.amazon.com/Bitter-Harvest-Zimbabwe-Aftermath-Independence/dp/1857826043/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1


I want the hardcover first edition. Like the one that I saw at Book Barn in Old Lyme a few years back.



You saw a first edition at the Barn and didn't buy it?


Homo.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:49:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2013 8:52:30 PM EDT by DanTSX]
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']

Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


They had very good reasons to "cling" to power. They had seen what had happened in all the countries around them that had gone to black rule (Angola, Mozambique, the Congo, etc.). There was chaos in all those countries. Zimbabwe is an economic disaster.

Ian Smith noted multiple times in his memoirs that the Rhodesian government knew majority rule was inevitable, and he also intimated that the South Africans knew the same thing, but stupidly clung to Apartheid. The goal was to get black leaders in place while avoiding both Communism and the typical African strongman. Mugabe embodied both, and was a worst case scenario for the country.


Do you own a copy of Bitter Harvest?

Yes.


Look me up if you ever want to move it, or any other Rhodesia or ZA related items.

I'm having a hell of a time finding a copy of bitter harvest.

Sheesh.

Want me to tie your shoes for you?

http://www.amazon.com/Bitter-Harvest-Zimbabwe-Aftermath-Independence/dp/1857826043/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1


I want the hardcover first edition. Like the one that I saw at Book Barn in Old Lyme a few years back.



You saw a first edition at the Barn and didn't buy it?


Homo.


I was in a rush to get laid.


with a girl


we have a place on the sound right by there.


I did get this though....


1890
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:50:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
lol

I have to go to bed now and can't catch up on this thread, but I'm dying to know which post your LOLing at.

There hasn't been much asshattery in this thread.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:53:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:


Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


They had very good reasons to "cling" to power. They had seen what had happened in all the countries around them that had gone to black rule (Angola, Mozambique, the Congo, etc.). There was chaos in all those countries. Zimbabwe is an economic disaster.

Ian Smith noted multiple times in his memoirs that the Rhodesian government knew majority rule was inevitable, and he also intimated that the South Africans knew the same thing, but stupidly clung to Apartheid. The goal was to get black leaders in place while avoiding both Communism and the typical African strongman. Mugabe embodied both, and was a worst case scenario for the country.


Do you own a copy of Bitter Harvest?

Yes.


Look me up if you ever want to move it, or any other Rhodesia or ZA related items.

I'm having a hell of a time finding a copy of bitter harvest.

Sheesh.

Want me to tie your shoes for you?

http://www.amazon.com/Bitter-Harvest-Zimbabwe-Aftermath-Independence/dp/1857826043/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1


I want the hardcover first edition. Like the one that I saw at Book Barn in Old Lyme a few years back.



You saw a first edition at the Barn and didn't buy it?


Homo.


I was in a rush to get laid.


with a girl


[span style='font-weight: bold;']we have a place on the sound right by there.


Probably a Point o' Woods wuss.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:56:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By Andrewsky:


Don't worry about the 88s when it comes to history. They tend to be on the losing side in all facets. The history of Rhodesia is much more saturated with the battle against Communism. Race just happened to be the wedge used to divide the population. The 1970s Rhodesian government knew the writing was on the wall in regard to majority rule. Their goal was to get the natives up to snuff before the handover. That is what got cut short. The narrative that it was just a handful of bitter whites clinging to power is a false one.


They had very good reasons to "cling" to power. They had seen what had happened in all the countries around them that had gone to black rule (Angola, Mozambique, the Congo, etc.). There was chaos in all those countries. Zimbabwe is an economic disaster.

Ian Smith noted multiple times in his memoirs that the Rhodesian government knew majority rule was inevitable, and he also intimated that the South Africans knew the same thing, but stupidly clung to Apartheid. The goal was to get black leaders in place while avoiding both Communism and the typical African strongman. Mugabe embodied both, and was a worst case scenario for the country.


Do you own a copy of Bitter Harvest?

Yes.


Look me up if you ever want to move it, or any other Rhodesia or ZA related items.

I'm having a hell of a time finding a copy of bitter harvest.

Sheesh.

Want me to tie your shoes for you?

http://www.amazon.com/Bitter-Harvest-Zimbabwe-Aftermath-Independence/dp/1857826043/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1


I want the hardcover first edition. Like the one that I saw at Book Barn in Old Lyme a few years back.



You saw a first edition at the Barn and didn't buy it?


Homo.


I was in a rush to get laid.


with a girl


[span style='font-weight: bold;']we have a place on the sound right by there.


Probably a Point o' Woods wuss.


guilty
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 9:12:12 PM EDT
I love how you guys can somehow look the elephant in the eye yet still be blind to reality. What's the one thing S. Africa, Rhodesia, Haiti, Detroit, Camden, etc have in common?
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 9:22:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dillweed:
I love how you guys can somehow look the elephant in the eye yet still be blind to reality. What's the one thing S. Africa, Rhodesia, Haiti, Detroit, Camden, etc have in common?


And yet the most diverse country in the world, The United States of America, maintains the status of the greatest place on this Earth.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 9:33:28 PM EDT
t
Originally Posted By OKSoda:
As if we needed any more proof Stormfags are fucking idiots.

Blacks fought along side the whites in Rhodesia. Facepalm


this. the conflict there was not about race, but about economics/politics.
socialism vs democracy
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 9:39:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lokifox:
Originally Posted By dillweed:
I love how you guys can somehow look the elephant in the eye yet still be blind to reality. What's the one thing S. Africa, Rhodesia, Haiti, Detroit, Camden, etc have in common?


And yet the most diverse country in the world, The United States of America, maintains the status of the greatest place on this Earth.


Give it a few more years.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 9:43:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2013 9:46:50 PM EDT by midwinter]
F those 88s.
When I was at Ft Drum a couple years ago a soldier I served with referred to himself as a "Whenwe". He was about 8 when Rhodesia fell. His father and several other relatives where in the Army. Not all survived the collapse. He has a deep and abiding hatred of Mugabe and his gang. He's a senior US Army infantry NCO.

That, and he's black. It would likely cause any of the morons from stormfront to have an aneurism.


Edited due to autocorrect and a small screen
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 9:59:17 PM EDT
White nationalist types are gonna be attracted to something that lets them mix their anti-communist paranoid delusions with their delusions of white genocide. It's like chocolate in their peanut butter. Discussions of Rhodesia and South Africa let them do it in spades. That's all there is to it as far as I can tell.
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 10:00:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dillweed:
I love how you guys can somehow look the elephant in the eye yet still be blind to reality. What's the one thing S. Africa, Rhodesia, Haiti, Detroit, Camden, etc have in common?

Why am I not surprised?
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 10:00:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mullah_Atari:
White nationalist types are gonna be attracted to something that lets them mix their anti-communist paranoid delusions with their delusions of white genocide. It's like chocolate in their peanut butter. Discussions of Rhodesia and South Africa let them do it in spades. That's all there is to it as far as I can tell.


They have the IQ of juggalos, what do you expect?
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 11:45:01 PM EDT
There's nothing inherently racist about supporting Rhodesia or its cause, at the time or in memory. Settler rule was the best option and while obviously won't come back, IMO it would still be a better option than 'majority rule," which has been an unmitigated disaster just about everywhere it's been tried; where it actually had a chance (under anti-communist regimes, usually), the West would turn on them; heck, Sweden broke neutrality to go fight one such African country (Katanga, which seceded from Congo-Leopoldville in the early 1960s). Decolonization was not a benefit to the Continent or the world, really. Nothing racist about believing such, although it certainly is anathema to the multi-culti types.

Regarding Rhodesian flags, if you don't mind repros, I got a good one, with the proper colours (many are improperly coloured, it seems), from Lekkerwear. I have it hanging on the wall in my room.
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