Posted: 2/9/2015 10:23:05 AM EDT
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Greetings, new here, got some questions I hope someone can answer for me.
I'm currently a college student here in Oklahoma and I've been looking at building an AR rifle. I know you can order the parts directly however you have to ship the stripped lower to an FFL. I am technically a resident of Illinois and I have an active FOID card and I am wondering if I can order the lower to an FFL here in Oklahoma so I don't have to travel all the way back to Illinois just to get it. I have been doing a great deal of research about residency but I still can't figure this one out. All this being said does ATF 80-21 qualify me as a resident because I am a full time student and I do own and pay bills on a house here. Any help would be much appreciated, thank you. EDIT: To every suggesting I get a OK license, believe me I tried and they said I couldn't for some bullshit reason with tuition. That's why I am wondering about the ATF 80-21 because you just need proof like a bill or something along with a photo ID stating your name, birthday and such. It's a real hassle because even some of the gun stores here couldn't answer my question. Hopefully you guys can! EDIT: I hope that some of you will see this second edit. I contacted my local gun shop and talked to the President of the store. He said it was a sticky situation but I do qualify as a resident. That being said I need to prove that I live where I say I live and since I am still covered by my parents on insurance I don't plan on getting a Oklahoma DL or State ID. Anyone know what kind of documents would cover me saying that I lived here? I recently filled out a W-2 for work, would that count as a government document saying I live here in Oklahoma , if not what kind of document and how do I gain access to it. Thank you again. |
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Get an Oklahoma drivers license OR state ID. Be careful with this one. I assume being an IL resident, attending college in OK, you are a 19-22 year old. There can be complications on changing your residence, that reach far beyond firearms ownership. One example that many I went to college ran into was changing their residency to vote in local elections (Yes signup and registers booths all across campus), only to find out that, that change from their parents address, meant they were no longer eligible to be covered on Mom and Dads insurance. I don't know if this is still an issues now that 'children as young at 26 can be covered' mandate Just be aware of what you might be getting into with an address change. |
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You're not going to be able to purchase a firearm in OK with an IL DL (the lower receiver is the firearm in this case). You will either need to go back up to IL or change your residency to OK and get an OK DL.
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EDIT: To every suggesting I get a OK license, believe me I tried and they said I couldn't for some bullshit reason with tuition. That's why I am wondering about the ATF 80-21 because you just need proof like a bill or something along with a photo ID stating your name, birthday and such. It's a real hassle because even some of the gun stores here couldn't answer my question. Hopefully you guys can! How long have you been staying in OK? More importantly, how long have you had a contract with your name on it for a home or apartment lease or purchase? It's either 12 or 24 months before you can change residency, and you'll need to show proof via some sort of housing contract with your name on it and a date to establish a timeline. Who told you that you couldn't change residency because of tuition? Don't go asking people if you're allowed. Look up the requirements yourself and just go do it once you meet them. Keep in mind, getting a DL and changing residency is going to affect a lot of things. You'll be expected to get new tags on your vehicles, insurance will need to be updated, your taxes will need to be changed over, and voting will change. I've moved around a lot and while I get military exemption on some things, I don't get a new DL in every state I live because I don't want to do/change all of the aforementioned things. It's up to you to decide if not having to drive up to IL is worth all of those changes to you. At the same time, the amount you'll be saving on tuition might be worth it. |
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You're not going to be able to purchase a firearm in OK with an IL DL (the lower receiver is the firearm in this case). You will either need to go back up to IL or change your residency to OK and get an OK DL. How long have you been staying in OK? More importantly, how long have you had a contract with your name on it for a home or apartment lease or purchase? It's either 12 or 24 months before you can change residency, and you'll need to show proof via some sort of housing contract with your name on it and a date to establish a timeline. Who told you that you couldn't change residency because of tuition? Don't go asking people if you're allowed. Look up the requirements yourself and just go do it once you meet them. Quoted:
You're not going to be able to purchase a firearm in OK with an IL DL (the lower receiver is the firearm in this case). You will either need to go back up to IL or change your residency to OK and get an OK DL. Quoted:
EDIT: To every suggesting I get a OK license, believe me I tried and they said I couldn't for some bullshit reason with tuition. That's why I am wondering about the ATF 80-21 because you just need proof like a bill or something along with a photo ID stating your name, birthday and such. It's a real hassle because even some of the gun stores here couldn't answer my question. Hopefully you guys can! How long have you been staying in OK? More importantly, how long have you had a contract with your name on it for a home or apartment lease or purchase? It's either 12 or 24 months before you can change residency, and you'll need to show proof via some sort of housing contract with your name on it and a date to establish a timeline. Who told you that you couldn't change residency because of tuition? Don't go asking people if you're allowed. Look up the requirements yourself and just go do it once you meet them. You're asking a lot of a college student in today's world. |
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A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes. [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30] Residents of a state other than Oklahoma may purchase rifles, shotguns, ammunition, cartridge and shotgun shell handloading components and equipment from a licensed dealer in the State of Oklahoma. This authorization is enacted in conformance with the provisions of section 922(b)(3) of Title 18 of the United States Code and provided further that such residents conform to the provisions of law applicable to such purchase in the State of Oklahoma and in the state in which such persons reside. (Section 1288.B.) |
| Residency as far as the state of Oklahoma is concerned is not the same as far as the ATF is concerned. The ATF doesn't care if Oklahoma considers you a resident or not, just as long as you meet their definition. If you have an apartment lease or own a home there, that is good enough to purchase handguns and "firearms." You just need your original ID to prove who you are and some other sort of other documentation to show you meet the ATF's resident definition and an FFL that isn't a complete moron. See question 20(a) and 20(b) instructions on the back of the 4473. |
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Can you do face-to-face sales in Oklahoma? Take this ^ thought with extreme caution as some states have laws about selling pistol/rifle/firearm to a resident of another state without going through a FFL in which would put you back in the same spot. I wouldn't go around breaking the law just to try and build an AR. |
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Can you do face-to-face sales in Oklahoma? Face to face transactions must be between residents. The OP can legally purchase a long gun in Oklahoma as a non-resident, as long as he goes through a licensed dealer. Buying a lower online and transferring to a local FFL is fine. |
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Face to face transactions must be between residents. The OP can legally purchase a long gun in Oklahoma as a non-resident, as long as he goes through a licensed dealer. Buying a lower online and transferring to a local FFL is fine. Quoted:
Quoted:
Can you do face-to-face sales in Oklahoma? Face to face transactions must be between residents. The OP can legally purchase a long gun in Oklahoma as a non-resident, as long as he goes through a licensed dealer. Buying a lower online and transferring to a local FFL is fine. The ATF considers him a resident. He can buy guns however he wants, either FTF or thorough a dealer. |
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Quoted: The ATF considers him a resident. He can buy guns however he wants, either FTF or thorough a dealer. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can you do face-to-face sales in Oklahoma? Face to face transactions must be between residents. The OP can legally purchase a long gun in Oklahoma as a non-resident, as long as he goes through a licensed dealer. Buying a lower online and transferring to a local FFL is fine. The ATF considers him a resident. He can buy guns however he wants, either FTF or thorough a dealer. A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes. [18 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 478.29 and 478.30] and A person not licensed under the and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)] ETA: Found it
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Quoted:
Face to face transactions must be between residents. The OP can legally purchase a long gun in Oklahoma as a non-resident, as long as he goes through a licensed dealer. Buying a lower online and transferring to a local FFL is fine. Quoted:
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Can you do face-to-face sales in Oklahoma? Face to face transactions must be between residents. The OP can legally purchase a long gun in Oklahoma as a non-resident, as long as he goes through a licensed dealer. Buying a lower online and transferring to a local FFL is fine. Your post above made me think of this idea in the first place. |
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Residency as far as the state of Oklahoma is concerned is not the same as far as the ATF is concerned. The ATF doesn't care if Oklahoma considers you a resident or not, just as long as you meet their definition. If you have an apartment lease or own a home there, that is good enough to purchase handguns and "firearms." You just need your original ID to prove who you are and some other sort of other documentation to show you meet the ATF's resident definition and an FFL that isn't a complete moron. See question 20(a) and 20(b) instructions on the back of the 4473. Not so sure that's true. When I was stationed in OK I was only able to purchase firearms with a copy of my PCS orders and my CAC because I didn't have an OK DL. |
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Not so sure that's true. When I was stationed in OK I was only able to purchase firearms with a copy of my PCS orders and my CAC because I didn't have an OK DL. Quoted:
Quoted:
Residency as far as the state of Oklahoma is concerned is not the same as far as the ATF is concerned. The ATF doesn't care if Oklahoma considers you a resident or not, just as long as you meet their definition. If you have an apartment lease or own a home there, that is good enough to purchase handguns and "firearms." You just need your original ID to prove who you are and some other sort of other documentation to show you meet the ATF's resident definition and an FFL that isn't a complete moron. See question 20(a) and 20(b) instructions on the back of the 4473. Not so sure that's true. When I was stationed in OK I was only able to purchase firearms with a copy of my PCS orders and my CAC because I didn't have an OK DL. It is .That is the method you had to do as a military member stationed at a base not in your home state. Dangerdan posted the specifics on it. |
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0P, I was in a similar situation to you although not exactly. I went to college in Oklahoma as well and while I was a student there, I had to keep my original state residency at my parents which was in one of our neighboring states. I did some extensive research on this and what I needed to do in order to buy guns here in Oklahoma was to get paperwork proving I maintain a residence in Oklahoma. You can maintain residencies in multiple states and can buy guns as an Oklahoma resident while you are "maintaining that residence" for the part of the year that you live here. When I was living in the college provided housing, I went into the housing office and had them give me a copy of my housing contract as well as write a "to whom it may concern" letter on college letterhead regarding my residence in Oklahoma. It became much easier when I lived in a college owned apartment complex because having utility bills in my name along with my lease/housing agreement counted as proof of residency. Using this paperwork, I was able to buy rifles and, after I turned 21, handguns as an Oklahoma resident. I did this with multiple dealers and had no problems filling out 4473's. Some dealers are a little more knowledgeable on this than others so you might have to check with then. Make sure you have your paperwork for them to make copies of when you want to purchase the handguns. You fill out the 4473 paperwork and put your state of residency as Oklahoma and use your Oklahoma address.
Now, I don't know if there would be a separate issue considering how restrictive Illinois laws are because the state I I had my permanent address and residency in is just as free with guns as Oklahoma. Which college are you going to school at in Oklahoma? |
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Quoted: A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes. [18 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 478.29 and 478.30] and A person not licensed under the and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)] ETA: Found it
And don't forget, you would need a physical address on your ID (no PO boxes). If you do not have one, you would need (IIRC) an OK State hunting license, or OK vehicle registration card, or OK voters registration card. Some places will utilize a utility bill, while others will not accept utility bills. Either way, your going to have to have a physical address on something. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can you do face-to-face sales in Oklahoma? Face to face transactions must be between residents. The OP can legally purchase a long gun in Oklahoma as a non-resident, as long as he goes through a licensed dealer. Buying a lower online and transferring to a local FFL is fine. The ATF considers him a resident. He can buy guns however he wants, either FTF or thorough a dealer. A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes. [18 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 478.29 and 478.30] and A person not licensed under the and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)] ETA: Found it
And don't forget, you would need a physical address on your ID (no PO boxes). If you do not have one, you would need (IIRC) an OK State hunting license, or OK vehicle registration card, or OK voters registration card. Some places will utilize a utility bill, while others will not accept utility bills. Either way, your going to have to have a physical address on something. |
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I don't know about laws in your area, but I don't remember a non resident purchasing a long gun being an issue. That's what I'm wondering about. I'm not in Ok or Il but I thought that in most states you just need to be to legally reside in that state to be able to buy a gun there and not necessarily be a permanent resident there*. You have to be careful of the semantics between legal resident (short term) and permanent resident. I expect that your Illinois FOID card is meaningless outside of Il. *(anti-gun, NAZI New-England states excepted of course). |
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Be careful with this one. I assume being an IL resident, attending college in OK, you are a 19-22 year old. There can be complications on changing your residence, that reach far beyond firearms ownership. One example that many I went to college ran into was changing their residency to vote in local elections (Yes signup and registers booths all across campus), only to find out that, that change from their parents address, meant they were no longer eligible to be covered on Mom and Dads insurance. I don't know if this is still an issues now that 'children as young at 26 can be covered' mandate Just be aware of what you might be getting into with an address change. Quoted:
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Get an Oklahoma drivers license OR state ID. Be careful with this one. I assume being an IL resident, attending college in OK, you are a 19-22 year old. There can be complications on changing your residence, that reach far beyond firearms ownership. One example that many I went to college ran into was changing their residency to vote in local elections (Yes signup and registers booths all across campus), only to find out that, that change from their parents address, meant they were no longer eligible to be covered on Mom and Dads insurance. I don't know if this is still an issues now that 'children as young at 26 can be covered' mandate Just be aware of what you might be getting into with an address change. This can also affect your student aid package, if you are under 25 and have to use your parents information on your FAFSA, and have to register for school with that address. If you are over 25, have been declared independent, are a graduate student, or are active duty military or a veteran, it is not a big deal. |
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I don't know about laws in your area, but I don't remember a non resident purchasing a long gun being an issue. You are correct that a non-resident can purchase a rifle or shotgun. But ATF does not consider a stripped lower to be a long gun. There are 3 choices on the 4473 form: Hand gun, Long Gun, and "Other". A stripped lower is an "other", and cannot be purchased by a non-resident. |
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Have you looked into getting a State ID. That's what I did. I had an Illinois drivers license but a Michigan state ID with my college location as the address. In Oklahoma that is illegal You can have either a State ID or a DL not both... from my understanding it is illegal in a lot of states |
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Quoted: You are correct that a non-resident can purchase a rifle or shotgun. But ATF does not consider a stripped lower to be a long gun. There are 3 choices on the 4473 form: Hand gun, Long Gun, and "Other". A stripped lower is an "other", and cannot be purchased by a non-resident. Quoted: Quoted: I don't know about laws in your area, but I don't remember a non resident purchasing a long gun being an issue. You are correct that a non-resident can purchase a rifle or shotgun. But ATF does not consider a stripped lower to be a long gun. There are 3 choices on the 4473 form: Hand gun, Long Gun, and "Other". A stripped lower is an "other", and cannot be purchased by a non-resident. Read my post. ATF says out-of-state students are a resident of the state in which they are attending school at, when they are living in campus dorms or any other off-campus residence in that state. And when the student goes home during holidays and/or between semesters, they are a resident of that state. |
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Not so sure that's true. When I was stationed in OK I was only able to purchase firearms with a copy of my PCS orders and my CAC because I didn't have an OK DL. Quoted:
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Residency as far as the state of Oklahoma is concerned is not the same as far as the ATF is concerned. The ATF doesn't care if Oklahoma considers you a resident or not, just as long as you meet their definition. If you have an apartment lease or own a home there, that is good enough to purchase handguns and "firearms." You just need your original ID to prove who you are and some other sort of other documentation to show you meet the ATF's resident definition and an FFL that isn't a complete moron. See question 20(a) and 20(b) instructions on the back of the 4473. Not so sure that's true. When I was stationed in OK I was only able to purchase firearms with a copy of my PCS orders and my CAC because I didn't have an OK DL. When I was .MIL I bought guns in several states outside of my "Home" state, aka "home of record" by just showing military ID. I traveled so much for Uncle that I frequently didn't have written orders and I don't recall ever being asked to see them. Mil id was enough. Students fall in the same exception, they just need to show student id or some other document that shows them legally residing in that state. For state purposes (driver's license income tax, etc), "Legally residing" is NOT the same thing as being a permanent resident but for the ATF it is. I hope that makes sense. Any decent gun shop should know the difference. |
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Quoted: In Oklahoma that is illegal You can have either a State ID or a DL not both... from my understanding it is illegal in a lot of states Quoted: Quoted: Have you looked into getting a State ID. That's what I did. I had an Illinois drivers license but a Michigan state ID with my college location as the address. In Oklahoma that is illegal You can have either a State ID or a DL not both... from my understanding it is illegal in a lot of states Well that was 20 years ago. Back then my understanding was you can only have one drivers licenses but students could get an ID from another state. No telling what has changed since then. Still worth looking into to see if it is possible now. |
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OP is a resident of OK, while he is living there, and may purchase any legal firearm. 21 for handguns & lowers, 18 for rifles - from an FFL. He is also a resident of that communist shithole when he is back 'home'.
He does not need an OK ID or DL, just an FFL that understands the law. Easy-Peasy, Lemon-Squeezy. |
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In Oklahoma that is illegal You can have either a State ID or a DL not both... from my understanding it is illegal in a lot of states Quoted:
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Have you looked into getting a State ID. That's what I did. I had an Illinois drivers license but a Michigan state ID with my college location as the address. In Oklahoma that is illegal You can have either a State ID or a DL not both... from my understanding it is illegal in a lot of states The illegal part if having both from the SAME state. I have picked up many state ID cards from all the states I was stationed at while keeping my original drivers license. At one point I had a Washington state ID card, carry license and voter registration. All I needed was to have been at the address for 30-90 days, a current utility bill/lease in my name, another form of ID and stand in line. For the ID I would use my passport and/or military ID. And for those thinking I might have gotten them via some military PCS exemption/clause. Never the case. |
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... EDIT: To every suggesting I get a OK license, believe me I tried and they said I couldn't for some bullshit reason with tuition. ... Get a driver's license anyway. Don't tell them anything not relevant, that means all they need is an address and id's. https://www.dps.state.ok.us/dls/apply/dl_transfer.html |
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Read my post. ATF says out-of-state students are a resident of the state in which they are attending school at, when they are living in campus dorms or any other off-campus residence in that state. And when the student goes home during holidays and/or between semesters, they are a resident of that state. Quoted:
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I don't know about laws in your area, but I don't remember a non resident purchasing a long gun being an issue. You are correct that a non-resident can purchase a rifle or shotgun. But ATF does not consider a stripped lower to be a long gun. There are 3 choices on the 4473 form: Hand gun, Long Gun, and "Other". A stripped lower is an "other", and cannot be purchased by a non-resident. Read my post. ATF says out-of-state students are a resident of the state in which they are attending school at, when they are living in campus dorms or any other off-campus residence in that state. And when the student goes home during holidays and/or between semesters, they are a resident of that state. Well, I read your post. You didn't say anything about the ATF ruling on college students. You talked about non-residents purchasing long guns. I responded that a stripped lower is not a long gun. Anything else? Oh. And by the way. The ATF ruling has no effect on state law. Some states require a valid state-issued ID from the state where the purchase is to take place. Virginia is a good example. ATF says that a student attending college in VA is a Virginia resident while he is here attending classes. But Virginia law says he must have a VA drivers license or VA-issued ID to buy a hand gun here. |
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When I was .MIL I bought guns in several states outside of my "Home" state, aka "home of record" by just showing military ID. I traveled so much for Uncle that I frequently didn't have written orders and I don't recall ever being asked to see them. Mil id was enough. Students fall in the same exception, they just need to show student id or some other document that shows them legally residing in that state. For state purposes (driver's license income tax, etc), "Legally residing" is NOT the same thing as being a permanent resident but for the ATF it is. I hope that makes sense. Any decent gun shop should know the difference. Quoted:
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Residency as far as the state of Oklahoma is concerned is not the same as far as the ATF is concerned. The ATF doesn't care if Oklahoma considers you a resident or not, just as long as you meet their definition. If you have an apartment lease or own a home there, that is good enough to purchase handguns and "firearms." You just need your original ID to prove who you are and some other sort of other documentation to show you meet the ATF's resident definition and an FFL that isn't a complete moron. See question 20(a) and 20(b) instructions on the back of the 4473. Not so sure that's true. When I was stationed in OK I was only able to purchase firearms with a copy of my PCS orders and my CAC because I didn't have an OK DL. When I was .MIL I bought guns in several states outside of my "Home" state, aka "home of record" by just showing military ID. I traveled so much for Uncle that I frequently didn't have written orders and I don't recall ever being asked to see them. Mil id was enough. Students fall in the same exception, they just need to show student id or some other document that shows them legally residing in that state. For state purposes (driver's license income tax, etc), "Legally residing" is NOT the same thing as being a permanent resident but for the ATF it is. I hope that makes sense. Any decent gun shop should know the difference. Interesting. So students as well? That's good information I didn't know. Thanks. |