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Posted: 8/31/2004 12:56:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 1:03:11 PM EST by TennVol]
Here is an excerpt of the Republican platform concerning the 2nd Amendment (pages 72 & 73 if you care to look at the entire document):

Protecting Our Rights, Fighting Criminals, and Supporting Victims

Republicans and President Bush strongly support an individual right to own guns, which is explicitly protected by the Constitution’s Second Amendment. Our Party honors the great American tradition of hunting and we applaud efforts by the Bush Administration to make more public lands available to hunters, to increase access to hunting clinics and safety programs for children and adults, and to improve opportunities for hunting for Americans with disabilities.

We believe the Second Amendment and all of the rights guaranteed by it should enable law-abiding citizens throughout the country to own firearms in their homes for self-defense. To protect the rights and safety of law-abiding citizens, the Congress passed and President Bush signed the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, which allows active and retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed guns in public while off-duty.

We support efforts by the Administration and Congress to enhance the instant background check system for gun purchases and to ensure that records of lawful transactions are destroyed in a timely manner.

We applaud Congressional Republicans for seeking to stop frivolous lawsuits against firearms manufacturers, which is a transparent attempt to deprive citizens of their Second Amendment rights.

We oppose federal licensing of lawabiding gun owners and national gun registration as a violation of the Second Amendment and an invasion of privacy of honest citizens.

We agree that the best way to deter crime is to enforce existing laws and hand down tough penalties against anyone who commits a crime with a gun. This approach is working. Since Project Safe Neighborhoods was instituted in 2001, hundreds of new federal, state, and local prosecutors have been hired to target criminals who use guns. Prosecutions are up 68 percent, and the violent crime victimization rate is down 21 percent.

The Republican Party and President Bush support a federal Constitutional amendment for victims of violent crime that would provide specific rights for victims protected under the U.S. Constitution. We support courts having the option to impose the death penalty in capital murder cases.

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:00:10 PM EST
Outstanding! Just what needed to be said!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:04:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 1:13:00 PM EST by Da_Bunny]
Much better than the Democrats, however they are a little light on the keep and bear arms part. The right to "own firearms in their homes for self-defense" at least acknowledges our right to self defense in our homes, but falls well short of our right to bear arms. I also feel that the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act is a poor substitute for the right to self defense. How can national CCW for police prepare LEOs for multi-state law enforcement? Laws vary from state to state.

How can LEOs, who are off duty and out of state, be expected to place themselves at risk no matter where they are in the United States or it's territories to protect the general public? Is National CCW really the creation of a National police force, authorized to use deadly force anywhere in the country? Has the entire LEO community been federalized?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:05:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 1:08:10 PM EST by warlord]
That is good, the Repubs have a formal declaration of the 2nd Amend. In the past during Clinton's Admin, the Repubs basically told the gunners to take a hike. But the plank didn't mention anything about the "black rifles." And it re-inforce the notion that the 2nd Amend is about hunting.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:05:22 PM EST
Word!!!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:10:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 1:10:50 PM EST by garandman]

Originally Posted By warlord:
. But the plank didn't mention anything about the "black rifles."



What? Black rifles aren't "guns" covered under "Republicans and President Bush strongly support an individual right to own guns..." ????



Now if you wanna say Bush / Repubs didn't get in the Dems faces starting a fight we are NOT guaranteed to win, well, that's something else.....

me, I'm all for fighting that fight AFTER we have sufficiently educated the sheeple who unforutnately? are enfranchised with the right to vote.

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:11:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 1:12:12 PM EST by TennVol]

Originally Posted By warlord:
That is good, the Repubs have a formal declaration of the 2nd Amend. In the past during Clinton's Admin, the Repubs basically told the gunners to take a hike. But the plank didn't mention anything about the "black rifles." And it re-inforce the notion that the 2nd Amend is about hunting.



The 2nd para mentions "We believe the Second Amendment and all of the rights guaranteed by it should enable law-abiding citizens throughout the country to own firearms in their homes for self-defense".

While not specifically addressing black rifles, it is at least in the right direction (no pun intended) in regards to firearm ownership of any type.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:14:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By TennVol:

While not specifically addressing black rifles, it is at least in the right direction (no pun intended)
in regards to firearm ownership of any type.



Some people will NOT be happy until Bush punches Dianne Feistein in the head.

While she deserves it, I'd prefer it be Condi Rice.

But back in the world of realpolitic, gun rights are best advanced sometimes with less "red meat" approaches.

its how we got Class 3 legalized in SC.

It works.

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:15:13 PM EST
Problems I see with the plank:
1.) Over emphsizes hunting, making it appear that owning guns is all about hunting
2.) Stands behind current legislation which directly violates the second admendment.

Personally I feel that the Republicans are only paying lip service to the gun owners.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:17:35 PM EST
It ain't bad, but it should elaborate the greater specifics of exactly how the 2nd Amendment is interpreted by the Republican party under GWB. The fact that this specific outline has been released, there's plenty of unanswered questions. I know that some of the unmentionables are solely political posturing in order to capture swing votes. Not seeming over gun friendly is a necessary strategic manuever to avoid spooking the fence sitters. I wish they would just give us Bush backers the straight dope on the entire issue,

HS1
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:17:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 1:26:32 PM EST by warlord]
When the USA constitution was written, the 2nd Amend was written for what purpose?(hint, it ain't about hunting)
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:17:58 PM EST
It is an OK start, but it is nowhere near good enough to earn appluase from me!

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"

ANYONE should be able to buy and carry ANYTHING inlcuding "assault weapons" and "maghine guns" ANYWHERE!

This is a LOOONG way from the Republican view!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:21:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By TennVol:

While not specifically addressing black rifles, it is at least in the right direction (no pun intended)
in regards to firearm ownership of any type.



Some people will NOT be happy until Bush punches Dianne Feistein in the head.



That would go a long way towards making me happy, yes.


While she deserves it,


Correct, she does deserve it.


I'd prefer it be Condi Rice.


Why should Bush punch her? What did she do?



But back in the world of realpolitic, gun rights are best advanced sometimes with less "red meat" approaches.

its how we got Class 3 legalized in SC.

It works.




When was the last time Federal Gun Control legislation was reversed?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:24:16 PM EST
Yes, well, while not as strong as I'd like, it is certainly a step in the right direction from "Turn "em all In" Feinstein and Komrade Kerry.

We have gotten this plank by hard work from within, folks, and while I don't think where we need to be we're a damn sight better off than we could've been.

Why? Well, an affirmation of the 2nd as an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT for one.
The "Presidentially Supported" AWB apparently being allowed to die the death of uselessness it so richly deserves, to name two.

So, who ya gonna vote for now, gunbunnies?

(There ain't but one viable answer and it AIN'T John Fucking Kerry)

SG
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:26:21 PM EST
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA­AAAA-MEN!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:27:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 1:29:47 PM EST by ScaryGuy]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:


When was the last time Federal Gun Control legislation was reversed?



Barring some underhanded hysterical record-breaking Bullshit from Finstein et al, in about two weeks.


And not without some effort on the part of certain Pubbies to see to it that it never sees the light of day, I might add.

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Again, THERE IS ONLY ONE LOGICAL CHOICE FOR GUNOWNERS: Bush.

Or you can piss your vote away on Kerry or some other third party asswipe.

SG
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:28:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By TennVol:

While not specifically addressing black rifles, it is at least in the right direction (no pun intended)
in regards to firearm ownership of any type.



Some people will NOT be happy until Bush punches Dianne Feistein in the head.

While she deserves it, I'd prefer it be Condi Rice.

But back in the world of realpolitic, gun rights are best advanced sometimes with less "red meat" approaches.

its how we got Class 3 legalized in SC.

It works.


exactly.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:37:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 1:42:22 PM EST by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By TennVol:
Here is an excerpt of the Republican platform concerning the 2nd Amendment (pages 72 & 73 if you care to look at the entire document):

Protecting Our Rights, Fighting Criminals, and Supporting Victims

Republicans and President Bush strongly support an individual right to own guns, which is explicitly protected by the Constitution’s Second Amendment. Our Party honors the great American tradition of hunting and we applaud efforts by the Bush Administration to make more public lands available to hunters, to increase access to hunting clinics and safety programs for children and adults, and to improve opportunities for hunting for Americans with disabilities. {how come nothing about "being necessary to the security of a free state"?}

We believe the Second Amendment and all of the rights guaranteed by it should enable law-abiding citizens throughout the country to own firearms in their homes for self-defense. To protect the rights and safety of law-abiding citizenspolice officers, the Congress passed and President Bush signed the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, which allows active and retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed guns in public while off-duty. {if you're not cop, you're little people}

We support efforts by the Administration and Congress to enhance the instant background check system for gun purchases and to ensure that records of lawful transactions are destroyed in a timely manner. {"enhance" as in "close the gun-show 'loophole'"???}

We applaud Congressional Republicans for seeking to stop frivolous lawsuits against firearms manufacturers, which is a transparent attempt to deprive citizens of their Second Amendment rights.

We oppose federal licensing of lawabiding gun owners and national gun registration as a violation of the Second Amendment and an invasion of privacy of honest citizens.{WTF about STATES registering, licensing and piecemeal-banning away the 2nd Amendment???}

We agree that the best way to deter crime is to enforce existing laws and hand down tough penalties against anyone who commits a crime with a gun. This approach is working. Since Project Safe Neighborhoods was instituted in 2001, hundreds of new federal, state, and local prosecutors have been hired to target criminals who use guns. Prosecutions are up 68 percent, and the violent crime victimization rate is down 21 percent.

The Republican Party and President Bush support a federal Constitutional amendment for victims of violent crime that would provide specific rights for victims protected under the U.S. Constitution. We support courts having the option to impose the death penalty in capital murder cases.



I give it a 6.5 out of 10.0.

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:43:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
When was the last time Federal Gun Control legislation was reversed?


I can remember having to show ID and sign a sheet just to buy ammo.

No more.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:53:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By TennVol:
Here is an excerpt of the Republican platform concerning the 2nd Amendment (pages 72 & 73 if you care to look at the entire document):

Protecting Our Rights, Fighting Criminals, and Supporting Victims

Republicans and President Bush strongly support an individual right to own guns, which is explicitly protected by the Constitution’s Second Amendment. Our Party honors the great American tradition of hunting and we applaud efforts by the Bush Administration to make more public lands available to hunters, to increase access to hunting clinics and safety programs for children and adults, and to improve opportunities for hunting for Americans with disabilities. {how come nothing about "being necessary to the security of a free state"?}

We believe the Second Amendment and all of the rights guaranteed by it should enable law-abiding citizens throughout the country to own firearms in their homes for self-defense. To protect the rights and safety of law-abiding citizenspolice officers, the Congress passed and President Bush signed the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, which allows active and retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed guns in public while off-duty. {if you're not cop, you're little people}

We support efforts by the Administration and Congress to enhance the instant background check system for gun purchases and to ensure that records of lawful transactions are destroyed in a timely manner. {"enhance" as in "close the gun-show 'loophole'"???}

We applaud Congressional Republicans for seeking to stop frivolous lawsuits against firearms manufacturers, which is a transparent attempt to deprive citizens of their Second Amendment rights.

We oppose federal licensing of lawabiding gun owners and national gun registration as a violation of the Second Amendment and an invasion of privacy of honest citizens.{WTF about STATES registering, licensing and piecemeal-banning away the 2nd Amendment???}

We agree that the best way to deter crime is to enforce existing laws and hand down tough penalties against anyone who commits a crime with a gun. This approach is working. Since Project Safe Neighborhoods was instituted in 2001, hundreds of new federal, state, and local prosecutors have been hired to target criminals who use guns. Prosecutions are up 68 percent, and the violent crime victimization rate is down 21 percent.

The Republican Party and President Bush support a federal Constitutional amendment for victims of violent crime that would provide specific rights for victims protected under the U.S. Constitution. We support courts having the option to impose the death penalty in capital murder cases.



I give it a 6.5 out of 10.0.




Good post....right on!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:13:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
When was the last time Federal Gun Control legislation was reversed?




Which HIGHLIGHTS why we don't want a high profile knock down drag out fight on the issue of gun rights right now. We cant' count on the sheeple to back us.

This Sept 13 is gonna be HUGE for gun rights. Bush got it done QUIETLY, by tricking the lefties.

I agree with the goal - guns for all non felons, including machine guns, unregistered. Which was said IN THE PLATFORM. No national gun registration.

But you CANNOT go and say "Machine guns for everyone" right now.

Patience, grasshopper. We didn't get in this mess overnight, and we won't get out of it overnight.

The success the states are having (quiet, slow steady) is a model for Federal sucesses.

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:17:37 PM EST
That'll get the NRA to officially sponser Bush.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:20:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 2:20:52 PM EST by Wolf_Warrior]

Originally Posted By TennVol:
Here is an excerpt of the Republican platform concerning the 2nd Amendment (pages 72 & 73 if you care to look at the entire document):

Protecting Our Rights, Fighting Criminals, and Supporting Victims

The Republican Party and President Bush support a federal Constitutional amendment for victims of violent crime that would provide specific rights for victims protected under the U.S. Constitution.




WTF is this? Don't mess with my Constitution!!! I'm great with everything up this this point. A Constitutional entitlement? How much will this cost me? I'm sympathetic but the hidden costs of these victim's rights laws is staggering. Who stuck this in there and why?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:21:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
Problems I see with the plank:
1.) Over emphsizes hunting, making it appear that owning guns is all about hunting
2.) Stands behind current legislation which directly violates the second admendment.

Personally I feel that the Republicans are only paying lip service to the gun owners.



+1
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:29:48 PM EST


We believe the Second Amendment and all of the rights guaranteed by it should enable law-abiding citizens throughout the country to own firearms in their homes for self-defense.



But outside the home they dont' believe I have a self-defense right?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:30:23 PM EST
I personally prefer the Libertarian party platform: (taken right off their webpage, www.lp.org)

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms

The Issue: Governments at all levels often violate their citizens' right of self defense with laws that restrict, limit or outright prohibit the ownership and use of firearms. These "gun control" laws are often justified by the mistaken premise that they will lead to a reduction in the level of violence in our society.

The Principle: The Bill of Rights recognizes that an armed citizenry is essential to a free society. We affirm the right to keep and bear arms.

Solutions: We oppose all laws at any level of government restricting, regulating or requiring the ownership, manufacture, transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition. We oppose all laws requiring registration of firearms or ammunition. We support repeal of all gun control laws. We demand the immediate abolition of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

Transition: We oppose any government efforts to ban or restrict the use of tear gas, "mace" or other self-protection devices. We further oppose all attempts to ban weapons or ammunition on the grounds that they are risky or unsafe. We favor the repeal of laws banning the concealment of weapons or prohibiting pocket weapons. We also oppose the banning of inexpensive handguns ("Saturday night specials") and semi-automatic or so-called assault weapons and their magazines or feeding devices.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:31:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 2:36:40 PM EST by SO-COM]
That is a platform I can support fully, even if I'd like them to go a bit further and give back machine guns to civvies. Reason is, for most people, the right to self defense and home defense really outweighs our ability to go out and blast away with a m16. While its fun as hell, and I'd convert my semi to fully, if it was legal, what we really need is protection from furthur laws that errode our ability to stand as the people, and not as the 'state'. Standing as the people we have the ability and responsibility to be the first line of defense when it comes to our lives. As the 'state' we are forced to submit to a way of life that means we aren't allowed to protect ourselves and to rely on the state that bears no responsibility to do it for us.

Aside from that, a couple hundred thousand citizens with M16s against a tyranical gov and its military wouldn't get us any futher then with AR15s. It would most likely be like the Iraq war. Heavy initial losses from organized units, until the fight moved underground, until defeated. Besides, if a figure like Hitler stepped up and tried to seize a dictatorship, he would most likely be assassinated. We can reach alot farther now with a shot then ever before.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:36:28 PM EST

Our Party honors the great American tradition of hunting and we applaud efforts by the Bush Administration to make more public lands available to hunters



Hmmm, I must have missed the Constitutional Convention where they inserted the "hunting clause" into the Second Amendment.




We oppose federal licensing of lawabiding gun owners and national gun registration as a violation of the Second Amendment and an invasion of privacy of honest citizens.



How wonderful! Now we have the Republican Party on record as part of their platform as being opposed to the National Firearms Act! Great! Machineguns and silencers for everyone! w00t!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:38:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 2:39:31 PM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:40:06 PM EST
... worth repeating again


We applaud Congressional Republicans for seeking to stop frivolous lawsuits against firearms manufacturers, which is a transparent attempt to deprive citizens of their Second Amendment rights.



... We all know what this really meant at the time the grabbers attempted to ad ban extension riders to the AWB bill.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:47:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Post from motown_steve:

When was the last time Federal Gun Control legislation was reversed?

Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986, commonly referred to as FOPA 86.

It turned aside or reversed some Federal and State laws about the interstate transportation of firearms.



Tell that to the guy from Flordia who just had his guns seized from his yacht in New York. Someone may also want to tell this to the NY DA that is prosecuting people who fly into or out of JFK without a NY issued gun permit.


It overturned the Federal Ammunition Record act that was contained in the Gun Comtrol Act of 1968.

It set a time limit for the government's return of seized weapons when no charges were filed, or when the defendant was acquitted of firearm charges.



Gee Bruce VonFaulstich might disagree with you on this one.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=266771



It also provided for the reimbursement of defendant's attorneys fees for having to defend against federal weapons charges.

So, it has happened.

BTW, this Act also has been used by the ATF to deny any 'new' machine guns being permitted to be sold or transferred to individuals.



This is the one part that they seem to have no problem enforcing at all.


Eric The(EverythingComesAtACost)Hun


How come we're always the ones paying the price?

I'm not "bashing" the republicans, but some of you are WAAAAYYYY too quick to give them a free pass! The fact of the matter is that Bush is a politician, and politicians never give the people anything unless someone is holding their feet to the fire!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:55:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 3:54:37 PM EST
This may be stating the obvious, but this year it boils down to two things: 1) Are you going to vote; and 2) are you going to vote for President Bush or are you going to vote for the other guy?

I know the GOP platform isn't perfect (they never are) and it could definitely be improved, but it's the best we can do right now.

Let's win the battle this November and then we can concentrate on winning the war.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:02:06 PM EST
They have to get votes people.

Just cause it isn't in there doesn't mean they don't support it.

Everything about the AWB is to let it die quietly.

And since when is supporting hunters evil? Since when did they say the SA is about hunting?

And yeah they say they oppose registration but do not mention the NFA.

Nothings perfect.

CRC

"Republicans and President Bush strongly support an individual right to own guns, which is explicitly protected by the Constitution’s Second Amendment"
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:03:26 PM EST
4 More Years!

www.georgewbush.com
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:14:22 PM EST
At least the platform reads "...to keep guns in their homes..."

as opposed to "...at a gun club" "...at a Police station"


I would love to see a movement started in this country to repeal the majority of gun laws. Some arguments about regulating machine guns may have merit, but paying $200 and all the red tape for a SBS, SBR, or AOW just don't make any sense!

Previous posters are right, we didn't loose our country over night, nor will we win it back overnight.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:20:37 PM EST
And the platform is just that, a platform. A base.

We can builld on it.

A total repeal of Fed.gov gun laws isn't going to happen as long as the Democrats are around.

CRC
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:34:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By GoNavy:
I personally prefer the Libertarian party platform: (taken right off their webpage, www.lp.org)

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms

The Issue: Governments at all levels often violate their citizens' right of self defense with laws that restrict, limit or outright prohibit the ownership and use of firearms. These "gun control" laws are often justified by the mistaken premise that they will lead to a reduction in the level of violence in our society.

The Principle: The Bill of Rights recognizes that an armed citizenry is essential to a free society. We affirm the right to keep and bear arms.

Solutions: We oppose all laws at any level of government restricting, regulating or requiring the ownership, manufacture, transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition. We oppose all laws requiring registration of firearms or ammunition. We support repeal of all gun control laws. We demand the immediate abolition of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

Transition: We oppose any government efforts to ban or restrict the use of tear gas, "mace" or other self-protection devices. We further oppose all attempts to ban weapons or ammunition on the grounds that they are risky or unsafe. We favor the repeal of laws banning the concealment of weapons or prohibiting pocket weapons. We also oppose the banning of inexpensive handguns ("Saturday night specials") and semi-automatic or so-called assault weapons and their magazines or feeding devices.



Yes, well, I think most of us here would agree with that.

Just ONNNNNE small problem, there, sporto: last time I looked, a Libertarian has about a fart in a tornado's chance of being elected. In short: NONE. ZERO. ZIP. NADA. NIL. EMPTY. VOID.

Nice position, but totally and compeltely politically unviable at this time.

A Libertarian vote is the same as pulling the lever for John Fucking Kerry.

SG

SG
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