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Posted: 12/29/2012 2:06:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2012 3:14:46 AM EDT by JohnnyScience]
This thread references the explanation/info here: Republic vs. Democracy

Here is an excerpt from it I'd like to go deeper on:

"The people did "ordain and establish this Constitution," not for themselves, but "for the United States of America." In delegating powers to the government agencies the people gave up none of their own. (See Preamble of U.S. Constitution). This adoption of this concept is why the U.S. has been called the "Great Experiment in self government." The People govern themselves, while their agents (government agencies) perform tasks listed in the Preamble for the benefit of the People. The experiment is to answer the question, "Can self-governing people coexist and prevail over government agencies that have no authority over the People?"

It seems that we can't.

So being 30 and growing up in public schools I guess I never really understood the REAL difference between a Rebublic/Republicans & a Democracy/Democrats. I never gave any credence to either, thinking they're both equally shit and all full of it. And I think that with the weaving of politics and corruption over the years into both of these concepts it has removed the proper meaning behind them. Ive always thought, by default (of public schools ) as a country, we were a Democracy. Because as a majority we can vote to decide whats best. But why is the majority in a better position to dictate what the minority shall enjoy, endure etc.

But I've just realized that I'm a Republican. (I know I know yay me! Lol )

A Democracy only seems like it should be the case in situations such as how long a highway is going to be or where our garbage should be stored etc. (you know, REAL state issues) not how an individual should live his life (as long as he does not harm others, keeping the Golden Rule in tact of course, not telling/forcing me to get health care, own a gun or what I can put in my body or how to raise my kid, just to name a few)

As the article mentions we are a mix of the two, but that doesn't seem to work.

Taking all of the bullshit & corruption out of these two concepts, I never understood that (true) Republicans were for the truly FREE individual where as (true) Democrats were only concerned with having the majority rule in order to control the minority, making so an individual who is supposed to be TRULY free suffer because as an "individual" they supposedly aren't capable of self-governing and making intelligent, rash choices & decisions for themselves. I really thought it was a rich vs poor cock fight. The problem is even most Republicans today seem to overstep into a quasi Republican-Democratic velvet wrapped iron fist, forcing their ideas and opinions down everyone's throat as the Rule of Law, much like the majority does in a Democracy.

So how in the fuck did we get into a situation today where it seems that the TRUE Republic, that which our country was built and founded on, that the truly FREE individual concept has gone to shit and FAILED and the Democracy has won because of the majority of people seem to have rather low IQs and are sheeple?

There really isn't a difference between the two parities any more. It's all about overreaching tyrannical, corrupt government and the people are incapable of running their lives and are becoming enslaved.

In the article they make the argument of Republic vs Democracy:

"Bearing in mind that each individual is equally sovereign in a republic, he is free to reject the majority. He may choose to follow the majority and subject himself to the rule, or he may choose not to follow the majority and not subject himself to the rule. The minority has a voice and rights to refuse to accept the majority. Everything is advisory in a republic. This brings liberty and peace to the realm."

That concept sounds great and all, until you break one of their laws (living by the Golden rule of course - harming no one, Do What Thou Wilt) the only problem with that train of TRUE republican thought is that as an individual, if you don't do what "the man" wants, they will literally kick your door in, stomp a hole right through your ass, rape & kill your family and throw you in prison for the rest of your life.

So not only how did we come this far and become so fucked, but yet more importantly why are we letting it continue and get much much worse? . This attack that's coming on the 2nd amendment might be the scariest because it stops a man, who is an animal by nature from not being able to defend himself and his family. And when an animal is cornered, well.... look out. (I don't really want to turn this thread into a gun debate, just wanted to point that out and throw that in there, but prefer to keep it on subject of RvsD. I understand Heller says you have the god given right essentially to always defend yourself in your home, with or without a gun - but that was then, this is now and if they're going for some, they're coming for them all eventually)

Was the Tea Party the re-birth of the true Republican concept? (Until it also became corrupt and no better than it's predecessors)
Thoughts?
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 2:11:04 AM EDT
Once the politicians learn to bribe the voter with gifts, the game is over.

Well, the fat lady has done her encore.......
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 2:23:19 AM EDT
A republic, if you can keep it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 2:23:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2012 2:24:20 AM EDT by Tony7189]
double
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 2:26:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Pain:
Once the politicians learn to bribe the voter with gifts, the game is over.

Well, the fat lady has done her encore.......


They knew this three hundred years ago but people still don't get it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 2:40:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tony7189:
A republic, if you can keep it.

The 17th amendment ended the Republic and established a democracy.
It just took a while to flourish.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 9:43:54 AM EDT
Amen. Finally someone else sees how awful the seventeenth is...
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 9:57:13 AM EDT
“The America of my time line is a laboratory example of what can happen to democracies, what has eventually happened to all perfect democracies throughout all histories. A perfect democracy, a ‘warm body’ democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens… which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it… which for the majority translates as ‘Bread and Circuses.’

‘Bread and Circuses’ is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader—the barbarians enter Rome.”
― Robert A. Heinlein
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 10:30:09 AM EDT
The US is a Democratic Republic.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 11:33:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By swede1986:
The US is a Democratic Republic.


It was not designed to be democratic. The end result was clearly very similar to the regimen mixtum that could be found in Europe at the time (and to this day, such as in Liechtenstein).
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 11:50:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Originally Posted By swede1986:
The US is a Democratic Republic.


It was not designed to be democratic. The end result was clearly very similar to the regimen mixtum that could be found in Europe at the time (and to this day, such as in Liechtenstein).


I agree.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 11:59:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By swede1986:
The US is a Democratic Republic.



No, the US is an idiocracy.

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