[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Religion Question (Page 1 of 6)
Posted: 12/7/2012 5:16:50 PM EDT
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Does it really seem logical at all that you can be sent to a place of ETERNAL punishment. Not like only you suffer very a long time. Not even, millions, billions, trillions. quadrillions of years. But FOREVER to be cast into a pit with incomprehensible torture and agony. All that For maybe 80 years of total existence on Earth.  |
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I imagine that the TRUTH of how the universe may or may not work does not have as a requirement that our simple ape-like brains have to think it is "logical"
The General Theory of relatively doesn't seem "logical" to me - but that doesn't mean it's untrue. There may very well be an ETERNAL hell that people go to. It's not testable, so it cannot be proven (obviously) - but it is possible. And whether or not it makes sense to me doesn't really seem to have anything to do with whether or not it is real. |
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why would an atheist even concern himself with something he does not believe in-not very logical I am not atheist. I believe in a God, I just don't believe the Religions bullshit explanation on him/her/it. Wow, This might actualy be interesting. IN. |
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Quoted: I imagine that the TRUTH of how the universe may or may not work does not have as a requirement that our simple ape-like brains have to think it is "logical" The General Theory of relatively doesn't seem "logical" to me - but that doesn't mean it's untrue. There may very well be an ETERNAL hell that people go to. It's not testable, so it cannot be proven (obviously) - but it is possible. And whether or not it makes sense to me doesn't really seem to have anything to do with whether or not it is real. It's not a complex mathematical equation. This is like shit a 10 year old can comprehend. |
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There are tons of religions.......men trying to find God.
There is only one relationship.........a personal relationship with the Creator of the Universe. The Bible clearly explains it. The Creator became man, walked the earth and sacrificed His life as a human to pay for your sins. All you have to do is accept His gift. Don't get hung up in doctrine. As I read the Bible, I do not see lost men being eternally tortured in some Hell. I see rather them being separated from a loving Creator God forever. Seeing as God is love, I chose not to be separated from that. Your salvation is a condition of your heart and is not based on works. Simply accept the gift. Seek Him and He will find you. Just my understanding of it all. |
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Does it really seem logical at all that you can be sent to a place of ETERNAL punishment. Not like only you suffer very a long time. Not even, millions, billions, trillions. quadrillions of years. But FOREVER to be cast into a pit with incomprehensible torture and agony. All that For maybe 80 years of total existence on Earth. Yes. But whether you answer 'yes' or 'no' depends entirely on what you believe about God, sin, and man. |
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I imagine that the TRUTH of how the universe may or may not work does not have as a requirement that our simple ape-like brains have to think it is "logical" The General Theory of relatively doesn't seem "logical" to me - but that doesn't mean it's untrue. There may very well be an ETERNAL hell that people go to. It's not testable, so it cannot be proven (obviously) - but it is possible. And whether or not it makes sense to me doesn't really seem to have anything to do with whether or not it is real. It's not a complex mathematical equation. This is like shit a 10 year old can comprehend. 
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There are tons of religions.......men trying to find God. There is only one relationship.........a personal relationship with the Creator of the Universe. The Bible clearly explains it. The Creator became man, walked the earth and sacrificed His life as a human to pay for your sins. All you have to do is accept His gift. Don't get hung up in doctrine. As I read the Bible, I do not see lost men being eternally tortured in some Hell. I see rather them being separated from a loving Creator God forever. Seeing as God is love, I chose not to be separated from that. Your salvation is a condition of your heart and is not based on works. Simply accept the gift. Seek Him and He will find you. Just my understanding of it all. That's the way it was explained to me as well. The torment isn't burning in hell, it is being apart from a loving god. Some have even said that this is hell, but that might be pushing it. |
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does it seem "logical" to risk it ? It seems to me that just believing in something clearly not "logical", as a sort of life insurance and mostly out of fear of punishment, is insincere and goes against the spirit of the thing. As if God would be fooled by half-hearted pretenses, the "just in case god exists" believers who played the safe bet and didn't wan't to risk it. |
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Does it seem possible we could crawl out of the swamp from a slithering slime covered fish kind of thing  I always love that one  Sure does. Have you read any peer reviewed work on evolution? Or maybe even sampled Darwin's original work? Best way to get ammo for an argument is to read what the opposition is saying. I'll say this, I don't believe, but I try my best to be respectful of other religions. For the OP's question, I believe it is for the person to decide what they believe is true when it comes to religion/spirituality |
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Quoted: Quoted: Does it seem possible we could crawl out of the swamp from a slithering slime covered fish kind of thing I always love that one Sure does. Have you read any peer reviewed work on evolution? Or maybe even sampled Darwin's original work? Best way to get ammo for an argument is to read what the opposition is saying. Yeah, but there is nothing the Religious people can counter with because they have absolutely, positively, ZERO evidence on their side. |
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Sure does. Have you read any peer reviewed work on evolution? Or maybe even sampled Darwin's original work? Best way to get ammo for an argument is to read what the opposition is saying. Yeah, but there is nothing the Religious people can counter with because they have absolutely, positively, ZERO evidence on their side. [/quote] I would agree to a certain extent, but I wouldn't go that far. I'll preface my statement with this. I was raised in a christian home, but I became a scientist (geologist specifically) and that altered my views on faith and god. While I no longer identify with religion, I don't believe that christianity and evolution are mutually exclusive. Are the seven days of creation literal? Maybe (again, I don't believe this now, but for a time I did) evolution was the way in which god worked. All depends on how you look at it. |
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Does it really seem logical at all that you can be sent to a place of ETERNAL punishment. Not like only you suffer very a long time. Not even, millions, billions, trillions. quadrillions of years. But FOREVER to be cast into a pit with incomprehensible torture and agony. All that For maybe 80 years of total existence on Earth. Yea, so use you need to start using your time wisely. |
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Does it seem possible we could crawl out of the swamp from a slithering slime covered fish kind of thing I always love that one Sure does. Have you read any peer reviewed work on evolution? Or maybe even sampled Darwin's original work? Best way to get ammo for an argument is to read what the opposition is saying. Yeah, but there is nothing the Religious people can counter with because they have absolutely, positively, ZERO evidence on their side. He seems to have asked the same question as you did ‘I can indeed hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished. And this is a damnable doctrine.’ |
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Quoted: Quoted: I imagine that the TRUTH of how the universe may or may not work does not have as a requirement that our simple ape-like brains have to think it is "logical" The General Theory of relatively doesn't seem "logical" to me - but that doesn't mean it's untrue. There may very well be an ETERNAL hell that people go to. It's not testable, so it cannot be proven (obviously) - but it is possible. And whether or not it makes sense to me doesn't really seem to have anything to do with whether or not it is real. It's not a complex mathematical equation. This is like shit a 10 year old can comprehend. He gave the best answer you're going to find. If you're talking about the Christian religion in your OP, the place of eternal punishment was not made for humans, as they were never supposed to make themselves eligible to go. |
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Does it really seem logical at all that you can be sent to a place of ETERNAL punishment. Not like only you suffer very a long time. Not even, millions, billions, trillions. quadrillions of years. But FOREVER to be cast into a pit with incomprehensible torture and agony. All that For maybe 80 years of total existence on Earth. It wouldn't be "all that for maybe 80 years of total existence". It would be for not acknowledging Jesus as your savior. |
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If you dont think it is necessary to once in that 80 years, acknowledge that there is a higher power and that that power has a plan that involves you, then I guess that 'hell' wont be much different than your life here.... I am an atheist, and believe in no higher power. However, if I did believe in such, I would believe it had no more right to devise a plan for my life than any president, king, or dictator. |
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There are tons of religions.......men trying to find God. There is only one relationship.........a personal relationship with the Creator of the Universe. The Bible clearly explains it. The Creator became man, walked the earth and sacrificed His life as a human to pay for your sins. All you have to do is accept His gift. Don't get hung up in doctrine. As I read the Bible, I do not see lost men being eternally tortured in some Hell. I see rather them being separated from a loving Creator God forever. Seeing as God is love, I chose not to be separated from that. Your salvation is a condition of your heart and is not based on works. Simply accept the gift. Seek Him and He will find you. Just my understanding of it all. I've found that the ancient theologians and older commentaries to be more brilliantly written than newer ones. Theologians were the most learned group of people. People have asked these same questions since the beginning for a reason. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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If you dont think it is necessary to once in that 80 years, acknowledge that there is a higher power and that that power has a plan that involves you, then I guess that 'hell' wont be much different than your life here.... I am an atheist, and believe in no higher power. However, if I did believe in such, I would believe it had no more right to devise a plan for my life than any president, king, or dictator. When you build something, do you believe that you have any 'right' to devise a plan for it? Of course you do , and you INSIST to the point of force that such a creation does what you demand of it. (God made us; His we are.) At least God gives us absolute freedom to choose to do or choose to not do His will. But His justice cannot contradict His nature by denying the (rewards or the consequences) of either choice. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you dont think it is necessary to once in that 80 years, acknowledge that there is a higher power and that that power has a plan that involves you, then I guess that 'hell' wont be much different than your life here.... I am an atheist, and believe in no higher power. However, if I did believe in such, I would believe it had no more right to devise a plan for my life than any president, king, or dictator. When you build something, do you believe that you have any 'right' to devise a plan for it? Of course you do , and you INSIST to the point of force that such a creation does what you demand of it. (God made us; His we are.) At least God gives us absolute freedom to choose to do or choose to not do His will. But His justice cannot contradict His nature by denying the (rewards or the consequences) of either choice. No, once you give a creation consciousness you lose the right to "insist to the point of force" that it does what I demand. Say I created an intelligent wooden boy that had feelings. You live in the apartment next door. Every night you can hear its screams of pain as I torture it... It pleads for mercy and sobs... Its obviously feeling and intelligent. ...Its okay though right, since I created it? Now obviously this isn't an direct parallel, so don't try and say that is what I am doing here. I am just pointing out that creation does not give one being a right to control another. Once consciousness becomes involved, creation no longer entitles ownership. |
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I imagine that the TRUTH of how the universe may or may not work does not have as a requirement that our simple ape-like brains have to think it is "logical" The General Theory of relatively doesn't seem "logical" to me - but that doesn't mean it's untrue. There may very well be an ETERNAL hell that people go to. It's not testable, so it cannot be proven (obviously) - but it is possible. And whether or not it makes sense to me doesn't really seem to have anything to do with whether or not it is real. It's not a complex mathematical equation. This is like shit a 10 year old can comprehend. No offense, but I think you missed my point. Let me clarify by asking you this simple question: Do you think the rules of NFL football make sense to a chimpanzee? Do you think the chimps finds an NFL game logical? Of course not. But that doesn't mean that the NFL rules make no sense, are not internally consistent, or do not exist. See my point? The issue of whether or not it makes sense, or seem logical, to the chimp - has absolutely NOTHING to do with the reality of the situation. In terms of UNDERSTANDING the universe, God, or reality, we are still chimps. |
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Quoted: If we extend the analogy... Quoted: Quoted: I imagine that the TRUTH of how the universe may or may not work does not have as a requirement that our simple ape-like brains have to think it is "logical" The General Theory of relatively doesn't seem "logical" to me - but that doesn't mean it's untrue. There may very well be an ETERNAL hell that people go to. It's not testable, so it cannot be proven (obviously) - but it is possible. And whether or not it makes sense to me doesn't really seem to have anything to do with whether or not it is real. It's not a complex mathematical equation. This is like shit a 10 year old can comprehend. No offense, but I think you missed my point. Let me clarify by asking you this simple question: Do you think the rules of NFL football make sense to a chimpanzee? Do you think the chimps finds an NFL game logical? Of course not. But that doesn't mean that the NFL rules make no sense, are not internally consistent, or do not exist. See my point? The issue of whether or not it makes sense, or seem logical, to the chimp - has absolutely NOTHING to do with the reality of the situation. In terms of UNDERSTANDING the universe, God, or reality, we are still chimps. Its the chimps that do not understand the rules that are on the field playing. Is it any wonder when they end up heading for the wrong end zone, or tackling their own teammates? When owner of chimp monkey league decides to brutally torture the chimp lineman for tackling his own runningback during the 4th quarter, or horrifically torture the chimp kicker for picking up the ball and walking off the field during the extra point, you're gonna say the owner of the league is a sick psycho for putting feeling beings who are incapable of understanding the rules in and then punishing them for failing to do so |
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If we extend the analogy...
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I imagine that the TRUTH of how the universe may or may not work does not have as a requirement that our simple ape-like brains have to think it is "logical" The General Theory of relatively doesn't seem "logical" to me - but that doesn't mean it's untrue. There may very well be an ETERNAL hell that people go to. It's not testable, so it cannot be proven (obviously) - but it is possible. And whether or not it makes sense to me doesn't really seem to have anything to do with whether or not it is real. It's not a complex mathematical equation. This is like shit a 10 year old can comprehend. No offense, but I think you missed my point. Let me clarify by asking you this simple question: Do you think the rules of NFL football make sense to a chimpanzee? Do you think the chimps finds an NFL game logical? Of course not. But that doesn't mean that the NFL rules make no sense, are not internally consistent, or do not exist. See my point? The issue of whether or not it makes sense, or seem logical, to the chimp - has absolutely NOTHING to do with the reality of the situation. In terms of UNDERSTANDING the universe, God, or reality, we are still chimps. Its the chimps that do not understand the rules that are on the field playing. Is it any wonder when they end up heading for the wrong end zone, or tackling their own teammates? When owner of chimp monkey league decides to brutally torture the chimp lineman for tackling his own runningback during the 4th quarter, or horrifically torture the chimp kicker for picking up the ball and walking off the field during the extra point, you're gonna say the owner of the league is a sick psycho for putting feeling beings who are incapable of understanding the rules in and then punishing them for failing to do so Of course he's not a sick psycho. What a mean thing to say. 
He needs to win games (which the chimps don't even fucking comprehend) so that he can afford to keep employing the chimps (and give them a better life than the cruel jungle). Plus, they're just animals, man. They don't understand the economics of chimp monkey leagues. Hell, they don't even understand the rules. They're animals - and there's plenty more where they came from.
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Does it really seem logical at all that you can be sent to a place of ETERNAL punishment. Not like only you suffer very a long time. Not even, millions, billions, trillions. quadrillions of years. But FOREVER to be cast into a pit with incomprehensible torture and agony. All that For maybe 80 years of total existence on Earth. Some Christian religions interpret hell as "eternal separation from God". In other words, it's not so much that you are burned in a lake of fire forever, it is that you are forever cut off from communing with the creator. I'm agnostic so I really don't have a dog in this hunt. |
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It's not supposed to make sense, it's supposed to make you act like a civilized human being instead of a wild animal.
Some people need the threat of eternal damnation. Some people need stories about a guy doing magic tricks and casting out demons. Some people need to be inspired by a philosophy based on self-sacrifice and love of your fellow man. |
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Quoted: Actually sounds like a fun game to watch...Quoted: Quoted: If we extend the analogy... Quoted: Quoted: I imagine that the TRUTH of how the universe may or may not work does not have as a requirement that our simple ape-like brains have to think it is "logical" The General Theory of relatively doesn't seem "logical" to me - but that doesn't mean it's untrue. There may very well be an ETERNAL hell that people go to. It's not testable, so it cannot be proven (obviously) - but it is possible. And whether or not it makes sense to me doesn't really seem to have anything to do with whether or not it is real. It's not a complex mathematical equation. This is like shit a 10 year old can comprehend. No offense, but I think you missed my point. Let me clarify by asking you this simple question: Do you think the rules of NFL football make sense to a chimpanzee? Do you think the chimps finds an NFL game logical? Of course not. But that doesn't mean that the NFL rules make no sense, are not internally consistent, or do not exist. See my point? The issue of whether or not it makes sense, or seem logical, to the chimp - has absolutely NOTHING to do with the reality of the situation. In terms of UNDERSTANDING the universe, God, or reality, we are still chimps. Its the chimps that do not understand the rules that are on the field playing. Is it any wonder when they end up heading for the wrong end zone, or tackling their own teammates? When owner of chimp monkey league decides to brutally torture the chimp lineman for tackling his own runningback during the 4th quarter, or horrifically torture the chimp kicker for picking up the ball and walking off the field during the extra point, you're gonna say the owner of the league is a sick psycho for putting feeling beings who are incapable of understanding the rules in and then punishing them for failing to do so Of course he's not a sick psycho. What a mean thing to say. He needs to win games (which the chimps don't even fucking comprehend) so that he can afford to keep employing the chimps (and give them a better life than the cruel jungle). Plus, they're just animals, man. They don't understand the economics of chimp monkey leagues. Hell, they don't even understand the rules. They're animals - and there's plenty more where they came from. No body steal me and DK-Profs idea! We're totally gonna be rich... Think about it. Steroided up chimps in spiked armor playing football... That would be righteous entertainment  |
In essense, Isaac Asimov said, "If I were god and new everything and could be anywhere just by wanting to be there and could not die, I would create other beings (computations?) to figure out a way to effectively commit suicide." A better wuestion is why aren't you drinking tonight?
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Does it really seem logical at all that you can be sent to a place of ETERNAL punishment. Not like only you suffer very a long time. Not even, millions, billions, trillions. quadrillions of years. But FOREVER to be cast into a pit with incomprehensible torture and agony. All that For maybe 80 years of total existence on Earth. There are lots of things about this world that don't seem to make very much sense. Study physics for a little while, there are a lot of thus far unexplained phenomena that run counter intuitive to how you think the universe works. A lot of concepts our brain are not really capable of perceiving.... yet. If you're not a science person, from a religious perspective. You're trying to understand the motivations of an omnipotent being capable of creating the earth and it's inhabitants. A being that created the human mind. That is something simply beyond our comprehension as humans. As a collective whole we don't even understand ourselves. IMO OP you need to stop being god FEARING. Live a constructive moral life not because you want to avoid punishment in the afterlife, but rather because it helps your fellow man. I'm not advocating unquestioning faith, but rather removing fear out of the equation. I'm of the opinion that the motivation behind the action is just as important if not more so than the action itself. That's my $0.002. |
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Actually sounds like a fun game to watch...
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If we extend the analogy...
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I imagine that the TRUTH of how the universe may or may not work does not have as a requirement that our simple ape-like brains have to think it is "logical" The General Theory of relatively doesn't seem "logical" to me - but that doesn't mean it's untrue. There may very well be an ETERNAL hell that people go to. It's not testable, so it cannot be proven (obviously) - but it is possible. And whether or not it makes sense to me doesn't really seem to have anything to do with whether or not it is real. It's not a complex mathematical equation. This is like shit a 10 year old can comprehend. No offense, but I think you missed my point. Let me clarify by asking you this simple question: Do you think the rules of NFL football make sense to a chimpanzee? Do you think the chimps finds an NFL game logical? Of course not. But that doesn't mean that the NFL rules make no sense, are not internally consistent, or do not exist. See my point? The issue of whether or not it makes sense, or seem logical, to the chimp - has absolutely NOTHING to do with the reality of the situation. In terms of UNDERSTANDING the universe, God, or reality, we are still chimps. Its the chimps that do not understand the rules that are on the field playing. Is it any wonder when they end up heading for the wrong end zone, or tackling their own teammates? When owner of chimp monkey league decides to brutally torture the chimp lineman for tackling his own runningback during the 4th quarter, or horrifically torture the chimp kicker for picking up the ball and walking off the field during the extra point, you're gonna say the owner of the league is a sick psycho for putting feeling beings who are incapable of understanding the rules in and then punishing them for failing to do so Of course he's not a sick psycho. What a mean thing to say.
He needs to win games (which the chimps don't even fucking comprehend) so that he can afford to keep employing the chimps (and give them a better life than the cruel jungle). Plus, they're just animals, man. They don't understand the economics of chimp monkey leagues. Hell, they don't even understand the rules. They're animals - and there's plenty more where they came from.
No body steal me and DK-Profs idea! We're totally gonna be rich... Think about it. Steroided up chimps in spiked armor playing football... That would be righteous entertainment
Curious. You accuse God (unjustly) of Sadism...and yet....you yourself would be delighted by the spectacle. You really need to look at that, because if you look hard enough at it your false sense of accusation might actually reveal itself to be a simple pretentious delusion, a delusion of self-righteousness which holds your mind captive. (Yes, really). |
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Quoted: Sense of humor... Get oneQuoted: Quoted: Actually sounds like a fun game to watch...Quoted: Quoted: If we extend the analogy... Quoted: Quoted: I imagine that the TRUTH of how the universe may or may not work does not have as a requirement that our simple ape-like brains have to think it is "logical" The General Theory of relatively doesn't seem "logical" to me - but that doesn't mean it's untrue. There may very well be an ETERNAL hell that people go to. It's not testable, so it cannot be proven (obviously) - but it is possible. And whether or not it makes sense to me doesn't really seem to have anything to do with whether or not it is real. It's not a complex mathematical equation. This is like shit a 10 year old can comprehend. No offense, but I think you missed my point. Let me clarify by asking you this simple question: Do you think the rules of NFL football make sense to a chimpanzee? Do you think the chimps finds an NFL game logical? Of course not. But that doesn't mean that the NFL rules make no sense, are not internally consistent, or do not exist. See my point? The issue of whether or not it makes sense, or seem logical, to the chimp - has absolutely NOTHING to do with the reality of the situation. In terms of UNDERSTANDING the universe, God, or reality, we are still chimps. Its the chimps that do not understand the rules that are on the field playing. Is it any wonder when they end up heading for the wrong end zone, or tackling their own teammates? When owner of chimp monkey league decides to brutally torture the chimp lineman for tackling his own runningback during the 4th quarter, or horrifically torture the chimp kicker for picking up the ball and walking off the field during the extra point, you're gonna say the owner of the league is a sick psycho for putting feeling beings who are incapable of understanding the rules in and then punishing them for failing to do so Of course he's not a sick psycho. What a mean thing to say. He needs to win games (which the chimps don't even fucking comprehend) so that he can afford to keep employing the chimps (and give them a better life than the cruel jungle). Plus, they're just animals, man. They don't understand the economics of chimp monkey leagues. Hell, they don't even understand the rules. They're animals - and there's plenty more where they came from. No body steal me and DK-Profs idea! We're totally gonna be rich... Think about it. Steroided up chimps in spiked armor playing football... That would be righteous entertainment Curious. You accuse God (unjustly) of Sadism...and yet....you yourself would be delighted by the spectacle. The difference is I might joke about such a thing, I'd never do it |
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Quoted: Using that analogy a Christian would respond that the rules and a playbook (The Bible) have been translated into chimp and have been posted in the locker room. Quoted: If we extend the analogy... Quoted: Quoted: I imagine that the TRUTH of how the universe may or may not work does not have as a requirement that our simple ape-like brains have to think it is "logical" The General Theory of relatively doesn't seem "logical" to me - but that doesn't mean it's untrue. There may very well be an ETERNAL hell that people go to. It's not testable, so it cannot be proven (obviously) - but it is possible. And whether or not it makes sense to me doesn't really seem to have anything to do with whether or not it is real. It's not a complex mathematical equation. This is like shit a 10 year old can comprehend. No offense, but I think you missed my point. Let me clarify by asking you this simple question: Do you think the rules of NFL football make sense to a chimpanzee? Do you think the chimps finds an NFL game logical? Of course not. But that doesn't mean that the NFL rules make no sense, are not internally consistent, or do not exist. See my point? The issue of whether or not it makes sense, or seem logical, to the chimp - has absolutely NOTHING to do with the reality of the situation. In terms of UNDERSTANDING the universe, God, or reality, we are still chimps. Its the chimps that do not understand the rules that are on the field playing. Is it any wonder when they end up heading for the wrong end zone, or tackling their own teammates? When owner of chimp monkey league decides to brutally torture the chimp lineman for tackling his own runningback during the 4th quarter, or horrifically torture the chimp kicker for picking up the ball and walking off the field during the extra point, you're gonna say the owner of the league is a sick psycho for putting feeling beings who are incapable of understanding the rules in and then punishing them for failing to do so |
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In my opinion (Christian) your soul is eradicated, you no longer exist: nada, nothing. This would be at the end of your sentence, so I think you would experience a "hell" at least for a time, but in the end I believe your soul and you will no longer exist, only the memory of you.
Also, I know purgatory isn't biblical but it makes logical sense, of course I aint God so who knows 
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If you dont think it is necessary to once in that 80 years, acknowledge that there is a higher power and that that power has a plan that involves you, then I guess that 'hell' wont be much different than your life here.... I am an atheist, and believe in no higher power. However, if I did believe in such, I would believe it had no more right to devise a plan for my life than any president, king, or dictator. The difference is 'faith'. For the higher power that I believe in (Jesus), I willingly submit to his teachings according to scripture. Presidents, kings, and/or dictators can FOAD; they are not God. "The Plan" is not a step by step script, BTW... |
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Quoted: Quoted: Does it really seem logical at all that you can be sent to a place of ETERNAL punishment. Not like only you suffer very a long time. Not even, millions, billions, trillions. quadrillions of years. But FOREVER to be cast into a pit with incomprehensible torture and agony. All that For maybe 80 years of total existence on Earth. It wouldn't be "all that for maybe 80 years of total existence". It would be for not acknowledging Jesus as your savior. From a personal and religious standpoint, I don't think unrepentant sinners will suffer in hell forever. I don't think hell is literally fire and brimstone. I think this is imagery attempting to describe or depict the suffering of one's soul when one atones for one's own sins, rather than accepting Christ's atonement. However, I believe that these sinners will eventually pay or atone for their sins. However, they will still be separated from the fullness and glory of God. This is what damnation is. You're "damned" or blocked from being able to be with God. So what happens to all the Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Sikh's, Zoroastrians, etc., who lived and died and never so much as heard of Jesus? Are they all condemned to hell? (however you define hell). Didn't God love them too, and provide a way for them to be saved? </threadjack> Finally, I love your screen name. I've always liked Silas. It has some personal meaning to me. |
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Quoted: The team manager has also allowed numerous other rule books posted in the locker room (some of which people on one one end of the locker room are more likely to see than the chimps on the other), and the chimps have no way of knowing which game they're playing when on the field. Quoted: Using that analogy a Christian would respond that the rules and a playbook (The Bible) have been translated into chimp and have been posted in the locker room. Quoted: If we extend the analogy... Quoted: Quoted: I imagine that the TRUTH of how the universe may or may not work does not have as a requirement that our simple ape-like brains have to think it is "logical" The General Theory of relatively doesn't seem "logical" to me - but that doesn't mean it's untrue. There may very well be an ETERNAL hell that people go to. It's not testable, so it cannot be proven (obviously) - but it is possible. And whether or not it makes sense to me doesn't really seem to have anything to do with whether or not it is real. It's not a complex mathematical equation. This is like shit a 10 year old can comprehend. No offense, but I think you missed my point. Let me clarify by asking you this simple question: Do you think the rules of NFL football make sense to a chimpanzee? Do you think the chimps finds an NFL game logical? Of course not. But that doesn't mean that the NFL rules make no sense, are not internally consistent, or do not exist. See my point? The issue of whether or not it makes sense, or seem logical, to the chimp - has absolutely NOTHING to do with the reality of the situation. In terms of UNDERSTANDING the universe, God, or reality, we are still chimps. Its the chimps that do not understand the rules that are on the field playing. Is it any wonder when they end up heading for the wrong end zone, or tackling their own teammates? When owner of chimp monkey league decides to brutally torture the chimp lineman for tackling his own runningback during the 4th quarter, or horrifically torture the chimp kicker for picking up the ball and walking off the field during the extra point, you're gonna say the owner of the league is a sick psycho for putting feeling beings who are incapable of understanding the rules in and then punishing them for failing to do so |
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In essense, Isaac Asimov said, "If I were god and new everything and could be anywhere just by wanting to be there and could not die, I would create other beings (computations?) to figure out a way to effectively commit suicide." A better wuestion is why aren't you drinking tonight? The problem with his statement is that he has absolutely no clue what being omnipotent would be like. Being that it's a completely hypothetical scenario, how does he really have any clue how he would feel? I am not, nor have I ever had the ability to be anywhere just by wanting to be there and I am not arrogant enough to pretend to know how it feels. |