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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/20/2002 7:18:44 AM EDT
I sorta started this in another thread but I did not want to hijack a thread. Israel needs to stop thinking of the Palestinians as a soveriegn nation-state. The US and the rest of the world also needs to quit looking at the Palestianians as we would a separate nation. Stop allowing a third rate 'camp governor' an audience with the President of the US. (Arafat should be rated somewhere below the Hutchinson, Kansas Optomist Club President for an audience.) Let the Israelis administer the West bank and other occupied territories as they see fit as it is their land. The Israelis should consider these Palestinians as criminals...nothing else, and act accordingly.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 7:23:28 AM EDT
Yes, [b]wiggy762[/b], that is precisely what Israel should do! Eric The(IfTheyCan'tLoveYou,ThenTheyMustFearYou)Hu­n[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 7:25:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 7:37:02 AM EDT
There is no real world solution for a group of people who can't govern themselves and refuse to integrate themselves into Israeli society. Shok
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 7:38:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2002 7:39:42 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
No, that would be mean. Criminals are people who knowingly break the law. The palestinians can't help themselves. They're savages, after all. They're only doing what comes natural, to them. It is our burden to care for them, and to see to it that they don't get into too much trouble. A firm hand may be needed, but there's no reason to be inhumane. They should gently, yet firmly, be herded to the River Jordan, and the encouraged to cross.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 7:45:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By QShok: There is no real world solution for a group of people who can't govern themselves and refuse to integrate themselves into Israeli society. Shok
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THAT, is exactly my point! The Palestinians are incapable of acting appropriately on the world stage. Israel should administer them as you would any miscreant, give them a chance to conform to Israeli law or ......I see three options: 1. Deportation - moderate Palestinian radicals 2. Incarceration - Palestinian terrorist/criminal supporters 3. Elimination - hardline Palestinian terrorists thatwill not give up the fight. This issue is a de facto civil war in Israel and Israel should deal with these criminals and dare I say cessationists(sp).
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 8:02:43 AM EDT
And why do you think all the (presumably) intelligent people on all sides who have put their minds to it can't come up with a solution?
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 8:39:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2002 8:40:02 AM EDT by wiggy762]
Originally Posted By DScott: And why do you think all the (presumably) intelligent people on all sides who have put their minds to it can't come up with a solution?
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Simple, they all made a fundamental flaw in granting the Palestinian people some sort of nation-state status. The US and the world (via the UN) have recieved audiences with Arafat! This is usually reserved for REAL heads of state. Once you begin to think of the Palestinians as a people kicked out of their own country and heroically trying to wrest control of that country from the oppressor Israelis, it is indeed a slippery slope towards legitimizing all things Palestinian. In the world's eyes, this is exactly what is happening and it erodes the legitimacy of the Israeli position. A fundamental review of the situation needs to happen and a reevaluation of the status of the Palestinian people needs to happen. The Palestinians are not a misplaced people valiantly struggling for survival, they are common criminals acting against the best interests of Israel. In this regard they should be dealt with not as nations deal with each other, but as a parent deals with a rebellious teenager....tough love or failing that, eviction.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 8:53:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 12:27:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: And why do you think all the (presumably) intelligent people on all sides who have put their minds to it can't come up with a solution?
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Because they have been indoctrinated over the last 50 years to beleve that mass killings and forced deportations= Nazi Germany. Without any regard for the character or behavior of the people being killed or deported. The Jews did not conduct suicide bombings and blow up German schoolchildren during the 1930's. So Germany had no legitimate grounds for what they did, and even less grounds for going into other countries, kidnapping THEIR Jews and killing them. It has never occured to the intelligista of the world that there would be such a thing as a population thoroughly indoctrinated with the idea of killing their neighbors. Cause even Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were not this thoroghly involved. They did not allow for the power of mass media and religion. Remember also that this situation is something of a freak in that the Palistinian "nation" as a whole is only roughly the size of the population of Cook County, IL and confined to a even smaller area. This allows a far more thorough and intense conversion of the population to radicalism. Although this still doesn't make genocide or expulsion the ideal solution, I fail to see how without the [i]credable threat[/i] of them the Palistinians can be brought under control. They have nothing to loose and everything to gain otherwise. The Palistinain way of war [i]counts[/i] upon the West's aversion to such means, it is deliberate that they have gone away from using paramilitary resistance groups to civilian volunteer martyers in order to force Israel and the US into this situation. They use the ingrained affection we have for protecting women and children against us. It is well that we have this aversion to harming innocent civilians, especially women and children, as a matter of general principal. But it is STUPIDITY to allow someone to use that to victimize you. Its doubly dangerous because it WILL be copied by others in the future who wish to do you harm.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 2:02:22 PM EDT
Israel should get the ar's together, and go into the palestinian areas, and well, wipem out, enough is enough, if canada was doing the suicide bomber thing to the us for peace, hmmm, give us michigan, and we will have peace, think the us would buy that?, why should israel, kick butt israel!
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 3:48:01 PM EDT
Isreal: For every incident of homocide bombing, level 4 city blocks worth of Palestinian territory, cart off the rubbles, and prevent Palestinians from returning. Upside: Expand Isreali territories and rid the trouble makers at the same time. Palestinians will have to decide if being driven off to the wilderness is worth the trouble. Downside: Probably can't level buildings fast enough. May provoke direct conflict with other Arab countries. Palestinians: Do a Ghandi and say: We just want to have our own homeland, just as the Jews did. We will renounce all violence and recognize Isreal if Isreal will recognize a Palestinian state at certain border. If Isreal refuses, have a sit-down hunger strike in the occupied territories. Upside: Dragging non-violent protestors away won't play well internationally. Isreal will HAVE to come to an agreement soon from internal and external pressures to end this now that Palestinians have renounced violence. Downside: Most Arab countries, Hamas, al aqsa, etc al, are too heavily invested in annihilating Isreal to let this one fly. The new Palestinian state will probably sink into civil war as soon as it's established as we are back to where we started. In either case, Arafat has to go. He's too much of a figurehead to be ignored, but not in control enough to actually do anything (an Arabic Jimmy Carter?!) I pity the fool who will take his place.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 4:59:38 PM EDT
Whoa whoa whoa. Wait a minute. Help me understand something, please. Why doesn't Israel just move? I mean look around them for you know who's sake. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon is their neighbor's. Totally different type of people and religions all the way around the board. They don't move because "it has been written" they they belong to that land due to their religion. Well let's ask the Palestinian people why they don't just move. Well look at that, the said the same thing as the Israel's said, their religion states this is the holy land. Doesn't this argument come down to one question? Who's religion do you believe to be true?
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 5:01:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Javak: Isreal: For every incident of homocide bombing, level 4 city blocks worth of Palestinian territory, cart off the rubbles, and prevent Palestinians from returning.
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I prefer: For every Israeli killed or injured in a suicide bombing, round up 100 Palestinians and impale them. The ones not sitting on sharpened stakes will have several hours of screams to help them reflect upon the error of their ways.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 10:53:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2002 10:56:51 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Originally Posted By MurderSHO45: Whoa whoa whoa. Wait a minute. Help me understand something, please. Why doesn't Israel just move? I mean look around them for you know who's sake. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon is their neighbor's. Totally different type of people and religions all the way around the board. They don't move because "it has been written" they they belong to that land due to their religion. Well let's ask the Palestinian people why they don't just move. Well look at that, the said the same thing as the Israel's said, their religion states this is the holy land. Doesn't this argument come down to one question? Who's religion do you believe to be true?
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Well that is a damn sight better argument than the colonists who came to North America had for killing of the Indians and taking their land now isn't it? Also science- in the form of Archeology- agrees with the Jewish position. And not just Israeli archeologists, American, British, French, German, Greek, and Italian scholers have all dug there and made finds that agree with the Jewish position. Even with that, neither religion nor science were the reason why European Jews went to Palistine in 1947 and started Israel. Israel is SOLEY a product of the Holocaust, created by those who could never again feel safe living under Gentile dominated goverments. Its reason for existance is to prevent another Holocaust by beng a state run of by and for Jews where the persecuted could find a safe haven. Those who founded Israel exploited the power vaccume created by a entirely too precipitous withdrawl by England from a part of her former Empire that was fortuitously close to Europe and easy to get to. Now some of the religious here see divine intervention in the fact that this power vaccume occured in the same territory that contained the ancient Jewish holy sites. I don't beleve in the divine, so I say its just luck that a space opened that they could make SOME historic claim to. Which is again more than the Europeans who took over North America had. So for any American to tell a Israeli to "just move" is the height of hypocrisy.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 11:02:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2002 11:03:18 PM EDT by kentstate4]
FVCK Isreal, if you love them go live there,then you can fight all you wish. Hey gWb and lawmaker cut their welfare off.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 1:34:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kentstate4: FVCK Isreal, if you love them go live there,then you can fight all you wish.
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Make me.
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