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Posted: 3/13/2001 12:33:27 PM EST
DIRECT TO THE POINT FOOD FOR THOUGHT, LET'S PUT THE BLAME SQUARELY WHERE IT BELONGS! By all means do not hold back your thoughts, there still is a constitution, just how much longer will we have it?, is the question! Surely if there were any real American men left in areas where firearms bans are inplace or about to be, they would STAND AGAINST THE TYRANTS, and in their hands would be the very arms the tyrants have banned or want to ban & confiscate, our founding fathers did, and surely turn in their graves with the shameful non-action of American men today! Your silence is the tyrants consent!
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 12:57:45 PM EST
I will never give up any of my rights and I will fight with every means at my disposal. “If the representatives of the people betray their constituents there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self defense. (Alexander Hamilton in the Federalist Papers No. 28) "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms... The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants." THOMAS JEFFERSON, in a letter to William S. Smith,
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 1:17:42 PM EST
They are too busy drinking beer and starbucks, watching football and survivor, and registering their guns so they can use them in competitions, sport shooting, and other hobby type events. They have also been lulled back to sleep now that a "republican" is in the white house.
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 1:33:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2001 1:45:16 PM EST by platform389]
Where are they...? Too few and too far between. As Mr.Imbrog|io says, most everyone in this country are too soft to be concerned about much of anything of a serious nature. This country is in percipitous decline that has not slowed by the change in White House. Mr.Sniper_762x51 would only die where he stood, and make the news that night as a fanatic. They would show his high school yearbook picture and interview people who knew him about his "interest" in guns. Dateline would do a story about him. They would use his actions as further justification for increased restrictions on guns. 10 days after his death, no one would remember what he died for. We have only been given a short time to prepare ourselves for the inevitable. Had Gore been elected, the time would have been shorter, but that is the only difference.
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 1:42:48 PM EST
And I have heavy doubts against any group of a formidable number "standing against tyrants". It just will not happen in our soft nation. Me, I don't know what I'll do when they come for my guns, but I doubt that we as gun owners and constitutional protectors will have many allies.
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 1:44:13 PM EST
Why don't you go help them 'stand against the tyrants', andreusan? Surely the inspired leadership of a red-blooded patriot such as yourself is all they are waiting for. That's probably all they would need to give up their families, jobs, lives, etc. Go ahead, we're all waiting for you to show us the way.
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 2:11:56 PM EST
Stand against them you say? Thats exactly what is going to happen. They will start collecting our so called iron devils until they come to the one person who says no and then the rest of us who have the balls to remain free will aid in this and there you have it a small war. And who is going to stop it? there is not enough cops and forgive me but the National Guard or resurvest wont cut the musterd. When it comes to the ban of guns the ones who will follow it don't know which end of the gun the bullet comes out and the others will fall in on our side of the issue. The gun owners in america dwarf ours and all of the other militaries of the world. I am not advicating that we creat a civil war, not at all just that there is strength in numbers and you I and yes even the government know this. Dont get to bent out of shape. If it gets to the point that a state gets that out of wack. Move to Texas or another state that dont have there heads in their ***. [frag]
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 5:20:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 5:40:57 PM EST
I really hope we can trust our police officers and miltary to not declare war against our citizens. They are some othe most partriotic people I know.
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 6:03:25 PM EST
Yes, we need to stand. Until we have the solidarity of thousands upon thousands with us, we must remain quiet to preserve any semblance of an advantage. Registration laws are bupkis, we hall have ways around them. Best advice - network around, keep it low key, organise locally. Keep your letter-writing campaigns up (they already HAVE our names) but keep an emergency-action network together. Know who to call when it comes apart - bring video cameras! Have your OrBat and Oplans ready! Gentlemen, our day will come. Until then, we must quitely gather our strength and forces, plant our moles, and bide our time. Make your contacts in military and local law enforcement (at all levels possible) so you can get a heads-up when sh!t is about to happen. You get the idea - use your imagination. Take a lesson from covert warfare actions on this matter - we gain nothing by standing NOW, while we are still gathering strength. Give it a little time... FreeFireZone
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 6:05:59 PM EST
we can sit here and talk about it all we like. we can grumble about the latest move of the demorats. we can state our opinions, vote in elections and polls, but not much more. we cant do much more until theirs some major SHTF going down, and we can start shooting ATF agents. personally im not gonna be out shooting because i dont wanna live in a cement cell with a sodomite thay all call "the pumper." maybe when their somekind of massive breech of the constitution and the nation is rising up and fighting i will punch some 5.56 size holes in my door when they come knocking, but i doubt i will be lucky enuf to live to see that.
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 9:13:54 PM EST
While I piss off a very few with my posts, I say again, a very few, my objective is to make people think about the America of today! Way back when, it was 3% that took that step toward freedom, and America was created, and I am proud that the responses overall are what I expected from American men, real American mem. Now, if we could only awake those who are in some kind of complacent stuper!
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 9:46:41 PM EST
Just a thought. I think machine guns are banned in FL. Why don't you get one and run out and show those tyrants just what you think of their laws yourself. It was your idea, show us by example.
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 9:56:14 PM EST
Mr. Platform, Yes I will die if I am the only one who stands up for his rights, but they will not forget me for a long time. Let me tell a you a couple stories that happened in my state a few years ago. The most recent one involved a Green Beret Sgt. who was attached to Delta Force. He was convicted of rape and managed to escape while being transported to court. Well the local police and the state police were going nuts trying to find him. They kept talking about how he was trained to kill and they were worried about how they were going to apprehend him since he was a Real Life Rambo. This went on for over a week until he was found hiding behind a house. He had the entire state in a panic and he never did anything to harm anyone while he was hiding. What would have happened if he had used all his skills and went on the offensive and worse yet if he had an AR-15 and a large supply of ammo. In the other case that happened several years before, a couple of teens in a pickup and with a 22 rifle went on a shooting spree and were shooting up a lot of property like houses parked, cars etc. Most of the state were afraid to even go outside and it was on the news every night. What I would like to know is what would have happened if instead of a couple of punk teenagers with a 22, they were a couple of real men who knew what they were doing and were using a real combat weapon like an AR15, M1A, FAL etc or a Rem. 700 pss. If anyone who really knew what they were doing really decided to fight back and I don’t mean holding up in your house and telling them come and get me, I mean going on the offensive, the police would not be able to handle it and would not know what to do. The police are not trained to fight in the bush they are only trained to fight in a urban environment and even then only under controlled conditions. At least in my area they are. Look at Columbine they would not go in until they had almost an army available, they are too used to calling for backup and will not do anything with out it. They are not prepared to go after someone who is actually going after them. They are used to being the hunter not the hunted. So if we were to actually fight to defend our freedom the police would be in a world of hurt. There are supposed to be about 600,000 police and about 45,000 actual combat military personal Army out of a little over 450,000 total Army personal, not including the Marine Corps and there are between 60 million and 80 million gun owners so lets see 1% of us would be at least 600,000 which is equal to the number of police and 10% would be, well we all get the point. There is no way the gun grabbers can win if we are willing to fight. Sniper for Justice
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 10:02:15 PM EST
Bootedaddy, Machine Guns are not banned in Florida, Florida is one of the Good States, my state Rhode Island is one of the bad states, no machine gun. Sniper for Justice
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 10:07:44 PM EST
Oh well I F_cked up. How about a bazooka? Anyhow I think you get the jist of what I was saying.
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 10:38:54 PM EST
Just remember to shoot the officers first [}:D] Seriously though if it came to a SHTF senario I think the "gun grabbers" would learn a valuable lesson. That the harder they sqeeze the more will slip between their fingers. here's a few quotes for insperation Give me liberty or give me death - Patrick Henry "Do not be afraid of enemies; the worst they can do is to kill you. Do not be afraid of friends; the worst they can do is betray you. Be afraid of the indifferent; they do not kill or betray. But only because of their silent agreement, betrayal and murder exist on earth." - Bruno Yasienski - "The Plot of the Indifferent" (1937) "It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to enslave a people that wants to remain free." - Niccolo Machiavelli saved the best for last [;)] "No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it." -- 16 Am. Jur., Sec. 177 late 2d, Sec. 256 I've got literally hundereds more like these, but I think the one by Machiavelli is where we are now.
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 11:29:32 PM EST
Real American Men and Women exist today. They are not as visible as the UnAmerican ones that the Lie_bral Media shove in our face every day. "All politics is local" is where you will find them. They are the grassroots people who arn't funded by the ONE WORLD Corporations and Endowment Funds.
Link Posted: 3/13/2001 11:57:42 PM EST
3% would be about 9 million. Not much else to say
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 2:35:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bootedaddy: Just a thought. I think machine guns are banned in FL. Why don't you get one and run out and show those tyrants just what you think of their laws yourself. It was your idea, show us by example.
View Quote
You do not know anything about weapons laws in Florida, as for showing anything whatsoever, you appear to be one of those who says they will be there when it hits the fan, but only long after it is over, wouldn't you? The question then would be which side you would be on? Surely, you would not follow the lead, where ever the lead happened, but that keyboard does give you some sense power, that you can hide behind!
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 2:42:02 AM EST
So, we are all supposed to go out and shoot something or someone? When, what, where? I can't think of anyone or anything that I am likely to shoot today. And I don't think anyone has ever accused me of being SOFT. And I'm not trying to be a smart-a**. I'm trying to get everyone on the same page, so to speak.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 3:17:10 AM EST
"And I don't think anyone has ever accused me of being SOFT. And I'm not trying to be a smart-a**. I'm trying to get everyone on the same page, so to speak." No, perhaps you are not "in love" with your comfortable lifestyle, but look around you... How many others are like you? Few? Many? I think virtually everyone on this board is "on the same page", to use your words. It is society in general being spoken of. The time for an out and out fight is not quite here yet. Until then, "mainstream" society will continue to look at people like us in the negative.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 3:25:48 AM EST
I don't think I'm the one hiding behind the keyboard. I will admit to not knowing every gun law in every state. Do you? Full auto weapons are legal in FL if you have a permit. Is this not a ban of a type? How many full auto weapons do you have without a permit? Post ban hi-cap mag are illegal in all states unless your a leo how many of these do you have? How are you standing up against the tyrants. You my friend are an American citizen. You have free reign to openly travel this great country of ours. You may go to any area that has restrictive gun laws and openly defy these law. In the face of the tyrants and risk being arrested or have your weapons confiscated. Are you a Real American man or just a FL resident? To me you are hiding behind the keyboard, throwing stones at other gun owner that although they may have fought against and do not agree with local gun laws are forced to comply with them. Do you plan on supporting the families of the men in these areas that stand up and then are arrested? Unless I see proof of how you've stood up against the tyrants then your belittling of others or the attempt to means absolutely nothing to me, other than the fact, my friend, that your are unamerican.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 3:29:35 AM EST
Hey guys, I mean no offense to anyone whatsoever, but everyone, I mean everyone needs to think on this question: "JUST WHEN, SHOULD DEFENSE TURN TO OFFENSE TO PRESERVE THE CONSTITUTION"? Americans of today are looked up by those in power as weak, that is why the legislation that restricts or outright bans the possession of arms, the very arms that are needed to remain free of tyranny! Until there is some show of Americans that they will fight to retain their arms, the bans will continue, then arms will be completely outlawed, then only outlaws and rogue government officials will have arms! Is that the America our founding fathers created?
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 3:40:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2001 4:22:22 AM EST by contras21]
andreusan... I think that you need to stop reading all of that Far Left crap that the underground militia groups are spreading. It is really getting old. I have noticed that most, if not all, of your posts cite chapter and verse from these groups. Have you ever tried to think for yourself? As far as STANDING...all that does is present a much easier target. I will tell you what...YOU stand and then we will see what the reaction is. In other words LEAD BY EXAMPLE...and be sure to let us know your real name so we can follow your mighty exploits in the news. If you spent just a little bit of time learning about the SUR instead of trying to incite mutiny and sedition, maybe you would be of value to this board. As far as I am concerned, at this point in time, you and your underinformed, sophmoric posts are worthless.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 3:57:30 AM EST
Well...enough of flights of fancy...I like thinking of standing for my rights, but how COULD we wage a war against the government? It is impossible. It is even more impossible for me, because at least right now I am under oath to serve this country, and I will abide all descisions of the C in C, an oath that is very sacred to me. I don't know what I would do, but I hope it doesn't come down to it. James
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 4:00:37 AM EST
No offence but that`s some pretty tall talk from all the way across the country.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 4:02:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By Rich314: No offence but that`s some pretty tall talk from all the way across the country.
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Just for clarification, to whom was your post directed?
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 4:13:01 AM EST
Give me a break andreusan, you made the post to begin with. You freely point your finger at those that have complied with unwanted laws and implied they were not men. And then when a few like my self point back your spine turns to jelly and you state you didn't mean to offend anybody. If you want to preach being a man than be man enough to stand behind your own word.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 4:18:10 AM EST
Can anybody tell I'm in a fighting mood today?
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 4:19:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bootedaddy: Can anybody tell I'm in a fighting mood today?
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No Problem!! [:D] I love it!
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 4:30:52 AM EST
Attention all self-styled Men of Action-Adventure and True American Patriots: Here is your chance to Stand Up And Be Counted; to Be A Real Man; et cetera, et cetera. Come to California, all expenses paid by the California citizens on this board (coach class and Motel 6, of course) bring your "so-called and un-constitutionally defined AW" into this fair state, and Defy The Tyrants To Arrest You Since You Are Such A True American Patriot. I'm not talking shoot-out here, just that you- Put up or shut up. Talk is cheap when you exhort somebody else to put their asses on the line or in jail. Whaddaya say, tough guy? Mr. Patriot? Mr. "They'll pry my gun outta my cold dead fingers"? Mr REAL MAN? Your plane ticket is waiting....
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 4:31:32 AM EST
Attention all self-styled Men of Action-Adventure and True American Patriots: Here is your chance to Stand Up And Be Counted; to Be A Real Man; et cetera, et cetera. Come to California, all expenses paid by the California citizens on this board (coach class and Motel 6, of course) bring your "so-called and un-constitutionally defined AW" into this fair state, and Defy The Tyrants To Arrest You Since You Are Such A True American Patriot. I'm not talking shoot-out here, just that you- Put up or shut up. Talk is cheap when you exhort somebody else to put their asses on the line or in jail. Whaddaya say, tough guy? Mr. Patriot? Mr. "They'll pry my gun outta my cold dead fingers"? Mr REAL MAN? There's no need to wait for the fight to come to you! A REAL MAN would step up and go to the fight! Your plane ticket is waiting....
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 4:45:48 AM EST
Cible... (oh god, i am laughing my a** off!!!)
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 4:50:26 AM EST
rifleer1 your post is such s*it, "how could we fight the government". It's been done, look at the afgan's they fought off the russians with old weapons and stolen equipment. (watch the movie "Red Dawn", granted it's just propaganda against commies) you can start with a hunting rifle then as you kill off the enemy you take their equipment until you are just as well equiped as they are. As for your last comment it only shows that you can't/don't think for yourself, are you going to be like the Nazi's and say that you were only following orders when you gun down innocents? Just which country are you going to fight for the one our forefathers made or the one it has become? The modern soldier and LEO's I've talked to make me sick they say they protect the constitution but when I aske them what they would do if they were asked to confiscate guns by force, to a one they all said they would do it. If you or any one else thinks that they can violate my rights by force you are in for one HELL of a suprise I will fight with every once of my strength to preserve them.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 4:55:23 AM EST
FYI : [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=8711#lastPost[/url] We reported and provided great detail about how a California government agency is trying to destroy one of KeepAndBearArms.com's Chief Advisors, former NRA Board Member, Russ Howard. Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America also covered this story recently. Russ Howard and Californians Against Corruption did, after all, take California's Roberti and Roos (of "Assault Weapons Ban" fame) out of their political careers. Those anti-Constitution self-serving public servants are gone from the political scene, but the backlash against Mr. Howard and Mr. Cicero is still a current issue. Thus, Russ Howard and Steve Cicero have now been fined $808,000 without a trial by jury or even a trial by a judge. No presumption of innocence. No right to an attorney. The CAC Defense Fund has received about $2,500 for the CAC Defense Fund, mostly through postal mail. They've invested nearly $40,000 on the defense -- half of it out of Russ Howard's own pocket. Legal Defense donations can be sent to: CAC Defense Fund 1500 Voorhees Ave. Manhattan Beach, CA 90266.Or you can use Pay Pals . Russ Howard The CAC Defense Fund 1500 Voorhees Ave Manhattan Beach CA 90266 Voice: 805-896-1122 Fax: 208-567-9322 E-mail: CACDefenseFund@netzero.net ^ What have you Done to Fight Tyranny. Money is Cheaper than BLOOD. ^ [url]www.RKBA.org/antis/hci-master [/url] [url]www.DigitalAngel.net/da_patent/index.htm[/url] Never Again, Never Forget Seek the Truth Liberate Your Mind FIXED BAYONETS VX
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 5:00:09 AM EST
I love it cible. I'm broke but what the hell, I'll sell something if you need someone to kick in a few bucks. It would be worth it to see a real American man in action.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 5:07:31 AM EST
Bootedaddy, a lot of us are broke, but that makes no difference for two reasons. First of all, plane tickets are as cheap as $198 plus tax round trip with advance purchase. Of course, my bet is that we'll only need to chip in on a one-way flight, which is $99.99 plus tax. I don't expect we'll need more than one night's stay in a motel, either. We can do the whole thing for a max of $300.00 and that includes a nice meal or two; there are at least 30 guys on this board who are sufficiently sick and tired of Big Talk / Little Weenie syndrome that they'll pitch in. That's only $10.00 apeice! BUT...... That assumes somebody will step up. As IF. Thanks for the support, though! I am curious, though, who would pitch in? Please post and let us know.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 5:08:26 AM EST
Bootedaddy, a lot of us are broke, but that makes no difference for two reasons. First of all, plane tickets are as cheap as $198 plus tax round trip with advance purchase. Of course, my bet is that we'll only need to chip in on a one-way flight, which is $99.99 plus tax. I don't expect we'll need more than one night's stay in a motel, either. We can do the whole thing for a max of $300.00 and that includes a nice meal or two; there are at least 30 guys on this board who are sufficiently sick and tired of Big Talk / Little Weenie syndrome that they'll pitch in. That's only $10.00 apeice! BUT...... That assumes somebody will step up and Stand Up And Be Counted. As IF. Thanks for the support, though! I am curious, though, who would pitch in? Please post and let us know. I'll start with me.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 5:12:56 AM EST
I've got $10...
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 5:14:31 AM EST
Hell! I will pay for the whole GODD*MN thing if it will get this TROLL to back his regurgitated rhetoric. Why don't we just ban TROLLS who exhibit signs of Multiphasic Personality Dysfunction aggravated by advanced Terminal Mental Rickets? Not all TROLLS though...we need them so we can keep our teeth sharp. Just the ones that fit the above profile... [:D]
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 5:16:15 AM EST
Damn you cible, I just spit coffee all over my monitor when I read the one way ticket deal. Count me in. But I've got 10 bucks that says we don't get any Mr. big talk/little weenie takers.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 6:38:46 AM EST
Okay, enough already. Andreusan is either a federal agent trying to see how receptive members of this board are to the idea of open rebellion, or a bored college student with too much time on his hands and a tenuous grip on reality. Either way, he's not worth discussing this issue with. The phrase "Real American men" is getting just a little sickening, especially coming from someone who's probably never put his ass on the line for anything. He's got 'armchair commando' written all over him. The canned rhetoric is getting tiresome, andreusan-give it a bloody rest.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 7:19:33 AM EST
Contras21 I was answering the original author of this topic. Rifleer I believe you took the same oath I took. Doesn`t it say you will protect the United States Of America from enemy`s both foriegn and domestic? Just so you know, if the jack boots fit...... Just make sure you have better training than I do and have a deep belief you are right. Cause hesitations can get you killed. Be carefull. And if I were you I`d stay away from my back door.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 8:05:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 8:57:51 AM EST
Seems we have a lot of Joe Louis mouths here. Most of them also appear to be attached to Shirley Temple asses.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 9:09:14 AM EST
I'll admit that I don't know [u]precisely[/u] what I would do in the situation described in this thread. Thank God, most of us, I assume, have never been presented with such a scenario. If the thugs are coming for MY guns, I would let them in, assume the position, comply with their directives, and be led off in 'cuffs. I'd post bail and, based upon disinterested legal advice, decide my next course of action. If the thugs are coming for OUR guns, meaning a concerted effort to confiscate all guns, I hope that I would have the courage to resist [u]by all means necessary[/u] - whatever that might mean under the particular circumstances of the situation. If it means that I might be shooting at people I wouldn't ordinarily be shooting at, so be it. Their decision, not mine. I do know what I wouldn't do - hop aboard a plane headed for the Left Coast to see if I could take out more of them before they go me. To [u]seriously[/u]suggest that as the true test of anyone's commitment to his principles is asinine in the extreme.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 9:35:12 AM EST
About 95% of the people on AR15.com would comply with a total gun ban.
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 10:02:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io: About 95% of the people on AR15.com would comply with a total gun ban.
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Well, I do believe that there just might be different levels of "comply". By the way, how did you derive the 95% estimate? And, do you consider your self one of the other 5%? Just curious...
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 11:10:27 AM EST
Maybe Andreusan should have been a little more specific. "Man" is a pretty generic term. Maybe he should have said "Patriot". There is a huge difference. You might all be men, but from the looks of the responses, only very, very few are Patriots! I've read many posts on this board an the old one that cut down hunters for not fighting for the rights of those of us who own assault rifles. The hunters are labeled self-serving because they don't have any use for AWs. From the posts here, most of you are no better than those you belittle. You are only interested in preserving those liberties that affect YOU. No man, by himself, is going to be able to make any difference in fighting the system. It is going to take a stand from large groups. To ask one person to take his AR to California to make a lone stand against a state government is rediculous. Grow up! The time for name calling and passing the buck has passed long ago, and now is the time for us to band together. Remember, "If we do not hang together, surely we will hang separately." I don't understand the accusation that Andreusan is just parroting the Patriot groups, and can't think for himself. Seems to me, he is one of the few thinking ones posting on this thread. Those who do no thinking for themselves are the ones interested only in their own safety and security. Just like the rest of the sheeple. [i]Nomex underwear on[/i]
Link Posted: 3/14/2001 11:16:28 AM EST
Son of Liberty- Your right, buuuuut do you really think this is a good forum to discuss this topic?
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