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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/21/2005 10:01:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 10:02:24 AM EDT by FNBrowning]
I have been a member of a private shooting club for years. Our private range as lost it’s land in an eminent domain action, and the new range is not built yet. So we’re all left to find what public ranges we can to shoot at. I have not visited a Missouri Department of Conservation Area Range Complex for about a decade. But decided to try the Bush Range on Saturday the 20th.

Wow, I had forgotten about the number of picayune rules that are enforced at a state run range.

I would like your comments on several of these rules, and whether your range enforces similar ones.

The rules can be viewed here: www.conservation.state.mo.us/areas/ranges/busch/info/

(1) After arriving, I set up a Chrony chronograph on a tripod to test some new ammunition I was using. You will notice there is no rule posted against chronographs.

The walking range officer must have observed me assembling the chrony and carrying it around to the front of the firing position during a cease-fire. He let me position the Chrony before deciding that the range did not allow chronographs. I looked at him askance, and asked since he observed me carrying the Chrony down the benches, around the corner and down the firing position before informing me of the rule? He called the range office on a handy-talkie and then grudgingly relented. But it was clear that he didn’t like chronographs, and said that I was likely to shoot the Chrony. Where would reloaders be in their hobby without a chronograph?

(2) There is a no smoking on the firing lines. {I did not smoke, but I observed a man reprimanded for smoking behind the firing line.}
Weird. It’s ok to produce smoke from cartridges and even denser smoke from large-bore black power weapons, but no tobacco smoke? No smoking on the range while changing targets? And get this, the rule extends to the spectator benches arrayed ~10 ft behind the firing positions?

(3) There is a no range bags rule on the spectator benches. This rule is NOT posted. That means that my companion could not sit with her range bag next to her while observing my shooting.

(4) When entering/leaving the range, cased rifles cannot be carried horizontally by the handles that are installed on ALL range soft and hard cases by all manufacturers to date. Do you carry your rifle case by the handle?

(5) No walking diagonally across the target range to change targets. This rule is NOT posted.
Shooters must travel on narrow paths to their target frames. Shooters carrying their heavy wooden movable frames to a new position can collide with others traversing the narrow gravel paths.

Is your range like this?
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:09:24 AM EDT
Smoking a cigerete while shooting increades your lead intake significantly. the lead dust and residue on your fingers adheres to the paper of the cigerette and when you smoke it you enhale the burning lead into your lungs. Bad JuJu.... Eating with your fingers is Bad JuJu too. It is not uncommon for ranges to loose employees to lead toxicity.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:10:01 AM EDT
My 290yd back yard range has one rule.

We don't shoot from the back deck when the neighbors are home unless they are shooting with us.

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:20:40 AM EDT
None of the state ranges around here have asinine rules or range officers. I sorta figured all of MO. was that way. I just try to go early Tuesday morning before the idiots start to overwhelm the place, if I'm going to the local state one. It's a lot of fun when you have the place to yourself.

Otherwise, I just go to a little place I found in the national forrest and blast away. If I have the desire to do any kind of bench rest shooting or anything past 100 yards I go to the gun store range located on the owners property. Ten bucks for a whole day with 50, 100, 150, 200, and 300 yard set ups.

But yeah, some of those rules sound pretty bizarre.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:22:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FNBrowning:
I have been a member of a private shooting club for years. Our private range as lost it’s land in an eminent domain action, and the new range is not built yet. ...



That disturbs me more than the range rules.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:25:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1IV:
Smoking a cigerete while shooting increades your lead intake significantly. the lead dust and residue on your fingers adheres to the paper of the cigerette and when you smoke it you enhale the burning lead into your lungs. Bad JuJu.... Eating with your fingers is Bad JuJu too. It is not uncommon for ranges to loose employees to lead toxicity.



Oh that's one long reach for justification!
(1) It's an open air range. The lead toxicity you mention can only reasonably be attributed to indoor, poorly ventilated ranges. Sorry, can't agree.
(2) NOTICE! I wasn't mentioning smoking ON the firing line WHILE shooting. I mentioned the ban extended to the spectator ranges in open air behind the line, and smoking while setting targets.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:29:09 AM EDT
Doesn't make a shit WHERE the 'No Smoking' rule applies - if it's a State-connected facility, Smoking will be verbotten just like it is in State buildings. Why are you quibbling / surprised?
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:35:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rayra:
Doesn't make a shit WHERE the 'No Smoking' rule applies - if it's a State-connected facility, Smoking will be verbotten just like it is in State buildings. Why are you quibbling / surprised?

BECAUSE IT'S AN OUTDOOR SHOOTING RANGE!
Oh chit! Now I see you're from Kalifornia.
Don't bring your state's screwy anti-freedom agendas into the discussion.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:36:16 AM EDT
I could understand the smoking ban from the point of view that it stops idiots from throwing butts all over the place.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:41:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:
I could understand the smoking ban from the point of view that it stops idiots from throwing butts all over the place.



Exactly. They are much harder to get rid of than all the expended brass.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:47:51 AM EDT
4) When entering/leaving the range, cased rifles cannot be carried horizontally by the handles that are installed on ALL range soft and hard cases by all manufacturers to date. Do you carry your rifle case by the handle?


So if the gun goes off in the case it won't hit anyone? Maybe they had a gun fire inside a case.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:52:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Oslow:
4) When entering/leaving the range, cased rifles cannot be carried horizontally by the handles that are installed on ALL range soft and hard cases by all manufacturers to date. Do you carry your rifle case by the handle?


So if the gun goes off in the case it won't hit anyone? Maybe they had a gun fire inside a case.

The State Highway Patrols do not have a problem with a cased gun in your trunk while you're driving past a hell of a lot of people. Ever walk up to a gun show or shop with a gun in the case? I don't think that cased guns have been shown to be hazardous.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:55:11 AM EDT
Don't try to breath logic into the Range Rules saga...........if seen some ranges run by some seriously stupid rules........I think I've finally found a range which uses common sense and basic safety regs.......
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:55:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Oslow:
4) When entering/leaving the range, cased rifles cannot be carried horizontally by the handles that are installed on ALL range soft and hard cases by all manufacturers to date. Do you carry your rifle case by the handle?


So if the gun goes off in the case it won't hit anyone? Maybe they had a gun fire inside a case.



[pangea smacks his own forehead] So that's why the ends of all of my cases are gone![pangea smacks his own forehead]
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:59:29 AM EDT
First of all you have to ask why they have these rules? Then you have to come the the realization that some fucktard screwed it up for the rest of us. Thats why they have thoes stupid rules. Thats also why I will never shoot at a state ran range, Logan & Reifschneider are great as long as you make it out before the mall ninjas. Bench Rest is awsome when I go out with the crew(might have to join next year).
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:03:37 AM EDT
That is exactly why I do not go to ranges.

I would rather give up shooting forever than go to a range to shoot.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:08:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FNBrowning:
I have been a member of a private shooting club for years. Our private range as lost it’s land in an eminent domain action, and the new range is not built yet. So we’re all left to find what public ranges we can to shoot at. I have not visited a Missouri Department of Conservation Area Range Complex for about a decade. But decided to try the Bush Range on Saturday the 20th.

Wow, I had forgotten about the number of picayune rules that are enforced at a state run range.

I would like your comments on several of these rules, and whether your range enforces similar ones.

The rules can be viewed here: www.conservation.state.mo.us/areas/ranges/busch/info/



I've been shooting at the MO dept of conservation range off I-44 (Antire Road) for many years - and while their rules are somewhat restrictive, all I need to do is look up at the cross beams (and roof) and see all the FREAKIN' HOLES - and realize that they've probably got a good reason for most of them.

Unfortunately, it means that responsible and experienced shooters have to put up with a little more hassle, but they get some really dangerous idiots out there on occasion, which is why they need all the annoying rules.



(1) After arriving, I set up a Chrony chronograph on a tripod to test some new ammunition I was using. You will notice there is no rule posted against chronographs.

The walking range officer must have observed me assembling the chrony and carrying it around to the front of the firing position during a cease-fire. He let me position the Chrony before deciding that the range did not allow chronographs. I looked at him askance, and asked since he observed me carrying the Chrony down the benches, around the corner and down the firing position before informing me of the rule? He called the range office on a handy-talkie and then grudgingly relented. But it was clear that he didn’t like chronographs, and said that I was likely to shoot the Chrony. Where would reloaders be in their hobby without a chronograph?



I guess it's a little lame that they hassled you - but in the end, they DID let you use it. (The hassle would annoy me too, FWIW)



(2) There is a no smoking on the firing lines. {I did not smoke, but I observed a man reprimanded for smoking behind the firing line.}
Weird. It’s ok to produce smoke from cartridges and even denser smoke from large-bore black power weapons, but no tobacco smoke? No smoking on the range while changing targets? And get this, the rule extends to the spectator benches arrayed ~10 ft behind the firing positions?



Doesn't MO have a no "smoking on state facilities" law now? I remember you used to be allowed to smoke at the spectator benches, and I believe it was changed recently. My guess is that it might be a state law, and have nothing to do with the range specifically.



(3) There is a no range bags rule on the spectator benches. This rule is NOT posted. That means that my companion could not sit with her range bag next to her while observing my shooting.



The only rule I know of at Antire is that weapons have to be inside the shooting booth - I've never tried leaving a range bag outside the booth, so I'm not sure whether it would be "allowed" or not.

Maybe it's just to prevent idiots from leaving range bags with firerams in them unattended?

Believe me, I've seen some increidble idiots at the MO Dept of Conservation ranges. There's a reason the ROs are so anal about all these rules.



(4) When entering/leaving the range, cased rifles cannot be carried horizontally by the handles that are installed on ALL range soft and hard cases by all manufacturers to date. Do you carry your rifle case by the handle?



At Antire, they do not have that rule (unless they just instituted it in the last month). THAT ONE is a very weird rule, and I agree with you completely.



(5) No walking diagonally across the target range to change targets. This rule is NOT posted.
Shooters must travel on narrow paths to their target frames. Shooters carrying their heavy wooden movable frames to a new position can collide with others traversing the narrow gravel paths.



At the Antire range, the range commander mentions this over the PA during every cease-fire. "Please stay on the gravel paths" (or something to that effect), so they don't really need a rule posted, since the RO instructs you verbally. Don't they do that at Busch too?

If they don't, they should post it - or leave you alone.



Personally, I am a little annoyed by all the rules at the MO Dept of Cons. ranges as well, but I still enjoy going to them, and do so quite often. One of those rules might keep the old half-blind and deaf guy with the deer rifle, or the clueless kid with the SKS - from shooting ME.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:10:48 AM EDT
The conservation range down here by springfield dosen't have thing about smoking, i dont know about chronos but there are better ranges around here for testing new loads, like busick or the range out by miller
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:11:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 11:16:49 AM EDT by Gloftoe]
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:14:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 11:17:37 AM EDT by Gloftoe]

Originally Posted By J_Smith:
Don't try to breath logic into the Range Rules saga...........if seen some ranges run by some seriously stupid rules........I think I've finally found a range which uses common sense and basic safety regs.......



Could be worse. Here are some rules from the only gun range I ever visited:

No Rapid Fire- minimum five seconds delay between shots.

No More Than One Round Per Magazine- Now them dadburn a-salt rifles cain't go shootin' nobody wif only one round in da gun!

No Food, Drinks, or Smoking- This one makes sense since people tend to be littering idiots and it's harder to clean up hamburger wrappers, coke cans, and cigerette butts than empty brass.

No Tracers, Armor-Piercing, or Explosive Ammunition- I'm not sure why this was a problem since the range was literally in the middle of nowhere and seemed properly set up to me. As for explosive ammo... How many people own explosive ammo of any sort?
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:17:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:21:48 AM EDT
Raufuss rounds
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:21:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By J_Smith:
Don't try to breath logic into the Range Rules saga...........if seen some ranges run by some seriously stupid rules........I think I've finally found a range which uses common sense and basic safety regs.......



Could be worse. Here are some rules from the only gun range I ever visited:

No Rapid Fire- minimum five seconds delay between shots.

No More Than One Round Per Magazine- Now them dadburn a-salt rifles cain't go shootin' nobody wif only one round in da gun!

No Food, Drinks, or Smoking- This one makes sense since people tend to be littering idiots and it's harder to clean up hamburger wrappers, coke cans, and cigerette butts than empty brass.

No Tracers, Armor-Piercing, or Explosive Ammunition- I'm not sure why this was a problem since the range was literally in the middle of nowhere and seemed properly set up to me. As for explosive ammo... How many people own explosive ammo of any sort?


Where the hell was this?



I dunno. Some range within driving distance of San Antonio is all I know. I was fifteen at the time.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:30:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By J_Smith:
Don't try to breath logic into the Range Rules saga...........if seen some ranges run by some seriously stupid rules........I think I've finally found a range which uses common sense and basic safety regs.......



Could be worse. Here are some rules from the only gun range I ever visited:

No Rapid Fire- minimum five seconds delay between shots.




Almost any manned range Conservation Dept range I have been to has a 3 seconds rule. I have seen why though. Asshole with an AK-clone cut loose as fast as he could and you could watch the rounds walk up the burm and then suddenly no more dust clouds but he's still going. 50 yard target too. My face was red I was so pissed. How can you miss at 50 yards? RO's missed it, but I'm sure a duck hunter type or two saw it. Thanks to that kind of bullshit is why you get dirty looks when you open up the AR.

Only takes one bullet over the burm into something/someone and it's bye-bye range.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:35:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By J_Smith:
Don't try to breath logic into the Range Rules saga...........if seen some ranges run by some seriously stupid rules........I think I've finally found a range which uses common sense and basic safety regs.......



Could be worse. Here are some rules from the only gun range I ever visited:

No Rapid Fire- minimum five seconds delay between shots.




Almost any manned range Conservation Dept range I have been to has a 3 seconds rule. I have seen why though. Asshole with an AK-clone cut loose as fast as he could and you could watch the rounds walk up the burm and then suddenly no more dust clouds but he's still going. 50 yard target too. My face was red I was so pissed. How can you miss at 50 yards? RO's missed it, but I'm sure a duck hunter type or two saw it. Thanks to that kind of bullshit is why you get dirty looks when you open up the AR.

Only takes one bullet over the burm into something/someone and it's bye-bye range.



Especially now that there's starting to be more subdivision and new construction out there. LIke around the 141/I-44 area. Although I have to admit I'm not 100% sure in what specific direction the range faces - but I THINK it's towards the 141/I-44 area - perhaps a little more in the direction of Fenton.

It truly is amazing to see just how badly the cross-beams above the tagets are shot up - even at 10 yards!

I saw a guy out there with an AK who was shooting at 25 yards (supported), and had trouble even hitting the target (not that it wasn't zeroed - his shots were just ALL OVER the place)
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:35:35 AM EDT
Yeah, I've got to say that the Conservation Deparment has rules in place for a reason. I don't like the rules but when I used to have to shoot at Henges Conservation range, I found the rules worth coping with since that's the only place I had to shoot the AR at the time. Was glad that I had that place too otherwise I'd have to have driven a lot further.

Folks are right, too... Just takes one idiot to ruin it for everyone.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:46:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1IV:
Smoking a cigerete while shooting increades your lead intake significantly. the lead dust and residue on your fingers adheres to the paper of the cigerette and when you smoke it you enhale the burning lead into your lungs. Bad JuJu.... Eating with your fingers is Bad JuJu too. It is not uncommon for ranges to loose employees to lead toxicity.



True, a friend of mine worked in the backroom of a gunstore as a gunsmith for two years. His lead level went up and up and up.
When he had a physical the Doctor was required by law to report his level to the Health Department.
(It went to 15, then 18 then 28) He left the gunshop 3 years ago and it is now at 0.81

Still sounds like some stupid rules.
The "No range bags on spectator benches" sounds like they don't want anyone handleing firearms in that area which is a good rule. An unloaded gun in a range bag is not a danger to anyone but remember, "treat all firearms as if they are loaded".

The no carrying cases firearme horizontally is stupid but I am guessing they are being extra careful. "What if" someone had a loaded firearm in a case and it is now pointing at people as you walk in or out. "Never let the muzzle cover anything you do not want to kill or destroy"

The little narrow gravel path is stupid. If it is a cease fire and nobody is on the line handleing firearms (a good rule) there should not be a problem walking anywhere you want on the range.

"No smoking" is also a good rule if fire is in any way possible. Also "some" smokers litter and feel the entire planet is thier ashtrat.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:01:06 PM EDT
The only range rules I have is to avoid ranges with rules.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:38:20 PM EDT
Most times in cases like these they have rule their because some dumbass did something along those lines.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:50:28 PM EDT
Wow! I can't believe how lucky I am about the two clubs that I belong to.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:51:29 PM EDT
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