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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/24/2005 1:03:09 PM EDT


I have the honor of getting to train two young men that have enlisted in the military on my AR15. One Army, the other a Marine. I figure this is my chance to give something to the war effort and also be able to give these two young men an edge when they go to basic training. They both signed up for the sand box, so maybe it will help out some there too.

I need info on what distances the Army and Marine Corp zero their weapons now. When I went through basic (Army) it was 25 meters. I want to teach them how to zero the weapon correctly. So when they hit the qualification range, the last thing they will have to worry about is their weapon. They are both already excellent shooters and avid hunters. So all I have to worry about is teaching them about the weapon itself, bullet fragmentation ranges and trajectory. I have set aside 1000rds apiece for these guys to train with and have access to a 500yd range.

Any other info you guys can suggest is appreciated.


You know, I think I am going to enjoy this more than these young men might.

Link Posted: 8/25/2005 1:51:50 AM EDT
I want to say that BZO is 33 meters. I am a little fuzzy on that. I know that the marine corps shoots at the 200, 300, and 500 meter line in standing, sitting, kneeling, and prone. When I went through, some of the best shooters were the people who had never fired a shot before in their lives. There are no bad habbits to unteach. Good luck.
Semper Fi,
BJohnson
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:42:28 AM EDT
You are well intentioned, but let the Drills do it at BRM. That is what it is for and you don't want them to be swimming against the tide a BCT/OSUT.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:26:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 9:35:38 AM EDT by FA-Gunner]
For the Army, zero is still 25 Meters, and qual is from 50 to 300 meters. 20 rds from the Foxhole supported and 20 rds from the prone unsupported. You can do a search online and download the manual, that way you won't be out of line with the instuction they will receive. Also, if you do give them some instuction, make sure they know to keep their mouths shut and not argue with the drills if they instruct them differently. Focus on the basics

I'll see if I can find a link to the manual for you that you can access.

Here is a link that has the manuals that will provide all the info you need, has both the Army and Marine manuals. http://www.txmarks.org/articles.htm
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:02:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OrionSix:
You are well intentioned, but let the Drills do it at BRM. That is what it is for and you don't want them to be swimming against the tide a BCT/OSUT.





This is the way BOTH services prefer it. Ideally, they LOVE people that have NEVER fired a weapon. Thay have no bad habits to unlearn.


Nothing against you, no flame here, but there is a distinct possibility you may be teaching them bad habits.

I was offered the chance to do this,(and I shoot competitivly) but I talked the Gunny out of doing it for this very reason. Instead, we ran the guys through a FAMILIARIZATION class.

Teaching the guys how to maintain the weapon is just as important as learning to fire if.

The PMIs are VERY good at their jobs.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:38:16 PM EDT

I agree with point made about not acting like they know everything. I told them from the beginning, when you get to basic act like you know nothing about the weapon. As anybody knows who has been in the military, the Drill Sgt will teach them everything they need to know!

I am not teaching them how to shoot, only about the weapon itself. How to properly zero it for qualification, breakdown and maintenance. As I said before, they are both shooters and avid hunters. They will do well if they draw a good weapon.

Thanks for the range and manuals info.



Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:22:52 PM EDT
I went into the Marine Corps with more then a little bit of shooting under my belt... Came out company high shooter and an expert.... that said I can only tell you Marine Corps stuff.....

200yds slow fire sitting, kneeling, standing- 5 rounds each... 15 rounds
200yds rapid fire sitting - 10 rounds (5, mag change, 5)... 10 rounds
300yds slow fire sitting - 5 rounds.... 5 rounds
300yds rapid fire prone- 10 rounds (5, mag change, 5) 10 rounds
500yds slow fire prone - 10 rounds...

total 50 rounds... targets are:
200 and 300 slow fire 12" circle would be fine to practice, real one will have other scoring rings in boot camp...

200, 300 rapid fire- "dog" target... head and shoulders outline (forgot sizing on that one)

500- b-mod target... waist up of standing man.....

if I were you, teach basics- sight alignment and picture, trigger control, breathing... don't worry about them shooting a qual course or anything else like that... give some trigger time on an A2 (or with A2 sights and sight radius) teach sight manipulation to the to-be Marine (hopefully ) because they will teach that at boot camp- the one going into the army would be chastized for that from what I hear about their training. teach some position shooting also if you know Marine Corps "prefered" positions... if not just give some trigger time with good habbits, that would be the best way to start off (and Diss-n-ass also....assembly, disassembly if you don't know....) PMI's will help but won't be super useful because they have a whole platoon to work with- if he's doing OK they may not even know his name because they'll be busy trying to get everyone to qual... if he's lucky enough to get a good coach for range week then he'll be lucky and get some good pointers... tell him to stay awake during classes and prepare to get thrashed if anyone falls asleep- the stuff you learn is very important... my shooting helped because I ended up helping out everyone that was shooting OK but not great... we ended up with the best average score for my company and set a record (but didn't win rifle range because we had more UNK's then another plt.) Give some intoductory info that way they're not in the dark when they get there.... hope that helps- I'd be able to help more but I haven't started coach's course yet (yea i'm going to be a rifle range coach soon)

-Roth
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 3:41:49 PM EDT
Hmm 20 rnds fox, 20 prone dont seem right. I did OSUT at Ft. Knox and if I recall it was all from the foxhole. I remember being very uncomfortable in that thing. We Qualified with M4's, I was expecting an M16.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 8:18:11 AM EDT
i don't know your background,or if they've ever shot anything. zero is still 25m. just teach them good position,breathing,sight picture,trigger squeeze,etc. army teaches only prone and foxhole,for the most part,one of the parts i disliked most about shooting in basic.if they end up shooting well, let them try kneeling,etc out to 50m or so.use iron sights,if possible.once they're zeroed at 25m,you will be zeroed at 25m and 300m. if you have access to that long a range,just set up targets in 50m increments out to 300,let them shoot relaxed,not any type of comp/qual, and let them see exactly where the bullets hit.give them the same point of aim on each target so they can see how much the bullet actually rises and falls.that's my best suggestion.good luck
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 11:38:33 AM EDT
For the army guy if he's going to go 11B (Infantry), I would be more concerned with the other stuff (it's a joke these days, but still a mental game more than anything). 11Bs spend quite a bit of time at the ranges, when you get to your units, you'll learn more. BRM is somewhat boring but if you relax at the range and pay attention you can get expert (I was the first in my unit, but I had experience shotting), it's still 20 rnds in the fox hole and 20 rnds in the prone. One of the drills that we alwayus did was the quarter on the a cleaning rod, pulling the trigger, if you can settle down you can pull the trigger with out the quarter dropping.. BTW, when I mean pull the trigger, I mean not having your whole finger thru the trigger guard wrapped around the trigger, you should use the meaty portion of the first joint of your index finger..


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