Posted: 7/2/2017 11:27:35 PM EDT
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I recall a pretty lengthy thread about RV Q&A lately? Did that get archived, I can't seem to find it.
At risk of offending the duplication police, I'm curious about some RV basics: Is NADA the best online valuation source? Wife and I are looking at acquiring a toy hauler bumper pull trailer, and will probably go used. It looks like we will be going for one of the models with an open cargo area (enough room for two 4 wheelers, so atleast 8'X8') at the front of the trailer, and 4 beds in the main cabin for us, kids, kids friends, dogs ect. A design something like this should meet all of our needs (and completely max us out on weight I think): http://www.forestriverinc.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=159&Image=5037&ModelID=1953#Main For those with experience with a longer 32-35' bumper pull trailer, any specific product recommends for the hitch or brake controller? My truck specs state an 8,500 max tow, the ball I have limits out at 7,500, so it will need to be replaced and a break controller installed. I'm not sure about the rating on the hitch assembly under the truck... I can't find any markings on it? I tow with an 07 Dodge ram 1500, and if we get what we want, we will be damn near maxing out the capacity of that truck, with most of my towing being in the Rocky mountains. What good/bad things to look for on the new trailer? My beer math suggests we will likely load 2,000-2,200 lbs of junk (2X4wheelers weight= ~1200lbs) we need into the trailer, so I should only be looking at 6,300lbs empty rate or less for the trailer. Does that sound about right to those that have done this? |
You are going to need a bigger truck or a smaller trailer and load................
Check the payload rating of the yellow sticker on the driver's door jamb - I bet it is around #1,000 pounds. (Ram Tough! - NOT!) Also, check the Gross Rear Axle Weight rating and the Combined Gross Weight Rating (actual weight of truck + trailer) of your specific pickup. (Not the max values used in advertising) Hit a CAT scale with your empty truck and get individual axle weights. With a 32 to 34' trailer, and the loads you propose, I would bet that you will greatly exceed all 3 ratings. Payload rating includes passengers, the tongue weight or the trailer (actual - not advertised) , and everything else in the truck except fuel. "1/2" ton pickups will almost always have their payload and axle ratings (rear especially) exceeded before they get anywhere near the SuperDuperOhMyGoshSpaceShuttleTowAbility tow ratings advertised. Mountain towing with that combo - no way in my book. |
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Mountain passes, 32ft trailer and an 07 half ton Dodge is not going to end well - at least for your tranny and brakes. Lol.
Personally I think that a 32' is too long for a tag trailer. I pull our RZR's and Jeeps on a 32' gooseneck. So much safer and easier to pull. Just my .02. |
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Quoted:
You are going to need a bigger truck or a smaller trailer and load................
Check the payload rating of the yellow sticker on the driver's door jamb - I bet it is around #1,000 pounds. (Ram Tough! - NOT!) Also, check the Gross Rear Axle Weight rating and the Combined Gross Weight Rating (actual weight of truck + trailer) of your specific pickup. (Not the max values used in advertising) Hit a CAT scale with your empty truck and get individual axle weights. With a 32 to 34' trailer, and the loads you propose, I would bet that you will greatly exceed all 3 ratings. Payload rating includes passengers, the tongue weight or the trailer (actual - not advertised) , and everything else in the truck except fuel. "1/2" ton pickups will almost always have their payload and axle ratings (rear especially) exceeded before they get anywhere near the SuperDuperOhMyGoshSpaceShuttleTowAbility tow ratings advertised. Mountain towing with that combo - no way in my book. Gross Axle Wt Rating - Front 3900 lbs 3900.0 min 3900.0 max Gross Axle Wt Rating - Rear 3900 lbs 3900.0 min 3900.0 max Curb Weight - Front 3157, 3163, 3120, 3034 lbs 3034.0 min 3163.0 max Curb Weight - Rear 2294, 2261, 2233, 2182 lbs 2182.0 min 2294.0 max Gross Vehicle Weight Rating Cap 6700 lbs 6700.0 min 6700.0 max Gross Combined Wt Rating 13000, 13000, 14000, 14000, 9500 lbs 9500.0 min 14000.0 max Dead Weight Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. 5000 lbs 4050.0 min 5000.0 max Dead Weight Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. 500 lbs 405.0 min 500.0 max Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. 7500, 7400, 8450, 8500, 4150 lbs 4050.0 min 8500.0 max Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. 750, 740, 845, 850, 415 lbs 405.0 min 850.0 max |
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Mountain passes, 32ft trailer and an 07 half ton Dodge is not going to end well - at least for your tranny and brakes. Lol. Personally I think that a 32' is too long for a tag trailer. I pull our RZR's and Jeeps on a 32' gooseneck. So much safer and easier to pull. Just my .02. I've towed these types of weights with this truck before, but not the length. |
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If you posted your truck's PAYLOAD I missed it. That's the magic number.
In any case, I think that's a lot of trailer for that truck. There are a bunch of smaller toy haulers with over ten foot cargo areas. Why not consider one of those? The kids sleep in the cargo area once the toys are offloaded. |
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If you posted your truck's PAYLOAD I missed it. That's the magic number. ........... The unladened hitch weights shown on the OPs link to bumper pulls started at 657# then went up from there. Load up the trailer and that will go up. Add the weight of a weight distributing hitch. Then - Payload rating on truck (Yellow sticker) less tongue weight, less WD hitch weight = not much or negative. Again, "1/2" ton pickups will almost always run out of payload capacity before getting near the "tow rating". Pulling is one thing - stopping and safe handling is another. |
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I was at the same point when we started looking at RV's. I had a '14 Ram 4 door and we were wanting a bumper pull trailer, about 30ft. After researching I discovered my RAM could handle about a 5000 lb trailer, when we had the whole family in the cab. That is not much of a trailer. So we ended up getting a new F350 dually and a 42 foot toyhauler 5th wheel.
RAM is the worst with their payload capacity, but all half tons are suprisingly low. I guess it has been pointed out already, but the payload is what you will have to watch. edit....when you are looking at trailers, the GVWR is what you want to use. The unloaded weight of the trailer is of no concern. |
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These are the numbers, no spaceshuttle or commercials involved. Unless I'm reading them wrong, the larger models we are looking at will be very close to, but not over the weight limit with the right weight distributing hitch. Gross Axle Wt Rating - Front 3900 lbs 3900.0 min 3900.0 max Gross Axle Wt Rating - Rear 3900 lbs 3900.0 min 3900.0 max Curb Weight - Front 3157, 3163, 3120, 3034 lbs 3034.0 min 3163.0 max Curb Weight - Rear 2294, 2261, 2233, 2182 lbs 2182.0 min 2294.0 max Gross Vehicle Weight Rating Cap 6700 lbs 6700.0 min 6700.0 max Gross Combined Wt Rating 13000, 13000, 14000, 14000, 9500 lbs 9500.0 min 14000.0 max Dead Weight Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. 5000 lbs 4050.0 min 5000.0 max Dead Weight Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. 500 lbs 405.0 min 500.0 max Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. 7500, 7400, 8450, 8500, 4150 lbs 4050.0 min 8500.0 max Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. 750, 740, 845, 850, 415 lbs 405.0 min 850.0 max |
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I have a love/hate relationship with RVs, just like 1911s. I have a lot of experience towing though, everything from RVs to horse trailers to horse trailers with living quarters to farm equipment to dual tandem flatbeds with 20k pounds of hay.
First things first...you can make stuff work, and farmers often do what they have to for work, but RVs are supposed to be fun. It is not fun towing at the max capacity of anything whether its a half ton pickup or a peterbuilt. When you add mountains, which means elevation and grades, max capacity goes from not fun to nerve wracking white knuckle experiences and then some. It just isnt worth it, especially for recreation...with your family with you. I usually have to learn things the hard way, am stubborn and determined, so I usually figure stuff out but this is one area where it really is easier and cheaper in the long run to listen to other people and to just spend the money to do it right. Bumper pull with a weight distributing hitch is ok...but fifth wheel is just way better for stability and manueverability before we even talk weights. I wouldnt even consider a bumper pull personally. Here is the big one: the tow ratings as some other have pointed out, are....optimistic. Plus, your trailer will grow in weight over time, as it is a real pain to keep it empty...again the point of this is to keep the work and procedures down so that you can have fun instead of having to plan your trip like a military deployment to keep it barely within the limits of your truck...long story short get a different truck. A gas srw 3/4 ton can tow a smaller fifth wheel safely and comfortably if it is properly equipped and maintained. Air bags ( or if it has overloads...blocks to engage the overloads sooner) can keep it level. Good brakes and a modern controller and you should be set...unless mountains. If you are really getting into this...you can save some time and money and just go one ton diesel right off the bat. A turbo diesel is just a whole nother animal in the mountains. The gas guys on low level flatlands brag how their gasser hangs with the diesel. Its another story when its hot, you are at elevation, and are on a long pull. It is nerve wracking going up a hill at 35mph on the interstate all the while thinking about the downhill on the otherside when you could be carefree and enjoying your family time with the right equipment. Towing with anything, even with a diesel dually, will never be as safe as regular driving, but it can be comfortable. There are plenty of oblivious dolts who put everyone in danger who are happy as a lark ridiculously loaded...but since you are asking the questions tells me you will be unhappy at max capacity pushing limits because you are not that guy. This is long already but I want to mention tires...they are the key. Air them right up to the tire limits. A full hard tire runs cooler since it isnt flexing as much and heat is the thing that kills tires. Trailer tires need to be replaced on a time schedule, not wear. Most are far beyond safe serviceable life by the time the tread wears. New tires every four years on the trailer is dirt cheap insurance. A blown trailer tire can do extreme damage to your RV not to mention cause a wreck possibly. Same on your truck...air em up and keep them newer, especially on a single rear wheel truck. Weights: there is the total truck weight limit (gvwr) the combined truck and trailer total weight limit (cgvwr), axle limits for both truck axles and the trailer axles, and the tire weight limits. Of all these, the one that will wreck you fastest is the one nobody talks about...the tire limits. Most half ton trucks do not come with tires suitable for towing. I have seen some crazy stuff on the farm and dont remember anyone breaking an axle but if you push the tire limits you are asking for trouble. The gvwr and the cgvwr are all about stopping. Most vehicles, especially diesels will get more moving than they can stop safely. Since you will be towing up and down grades, you dont want to push those limits either. Exceeding them or even being close to max could mean you wouldnt be able to stop the rig going downhill if you lost your trailer brakes. Been there done that, it happens. Lost trailer brakes with a 9000lb Fifth wheel behind a one ton diesel. Used engine braking (which you wont have with a gasser) and truck brakes, and even though this is a fairly light load for this truck I could still smell the brakes which were beginning to fade some by the time we stopped. They were hot. It would not have been fun if it were maxxed out as you are contemplating. You can get away with a lot until something goes wrong...and when it eventually does you cannot have too much truck or too much extra capacity. Keep it fun. |
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Keep in mind, the GVWR of your truck was based on a 150 pound driver and no additional cargo or passengers. If you add the wife, two kids, the dog and any gear for the camping trip you have to subtract that from the GVWR.
I towed a 26' 4500 pound (empty) bumper pull with my 2005 Yukon two years ago for over 8000 miles on a six month trip. I crossed the continental divide several times and it handled it OK most of the time. Going up hill, the transmission was in second gear rpms were 4k or so. Handling was sufficient most of the time, but never great. Crosswinds were a total bitch. My opinion is that for the size and weight you are considering you need at least a 3/4 ton. |