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Posted: 1/8/2005 10:54:58 PM EDT

COPS GET NEW 11-TON TOY



Article Publication Date: 2005-01-08

Police need someone to pick up their latest addition — an armored personnel carrier

THE M113A1 armored personnel carrier.

“It ran well and everything. It pretty much can go anywhere.” -— Conneaut Police Chief Jon Arcaro said his city’s M113A1

By SHELLEY TERRY
Staff Writer

ASHTABULA — Uncle Sam has given the Ashtabula Police Department some extra muscle, about 11 tons’ worth, in its battle against crime.

Friday, the department learned of an opportunity to add an unusual addition to its fleet — an armored personnel carrier. The only problem is they need someone to go pick it up for them.

“With cutbacks (in the military) and all, we have to find someone to pick up and deliver it,” Police Chief Ray Mattson said. “We need someone with a low hitch and a trailer.”

The carrier, retired as a fighting machine, was donated to the city through a special program that puts decommissioned military vehicles and equipment into the hands of law enforcement agencies.

Mattson said when he learned personnel carriers were being offered for free, he submitted an application. He thought the city might have a pretty good chance of getting a carrier, considering Conneaut, Andover and the Geauga County Sheriff’s Department have received them in the past.

Conneaut Police Chief Jon Arcaro said his city’s M113A1 carrier rides on tracks and resembles a small tank. Rubber inserts in the tracks allow the carrier to travel on improved roads without causing damage.

“It ran well and everything,” he said. “It pretty much can go anywhere.”

Aside from a few rust spots, the carrier arrived in good shape. Radios and some other gear were needed, but the carrier required no major maintenance to make it road-ready, Arcaro said.

“It didn’t take long for our officers to learn how to use it,” he said. “We have no money into this at all and it’s a good piece of equipment to have around.”

Like the one offered to Ashtabula, Conneaut’s carrier came from Camp Shelby in Hattiesburg, Miss.

The M113A1 was developed in 1964 and is an amphibious vehicle capable of crossing streams and lakes, according to the Military Analysis Network Web site. Its diesel engine can hit a top speed of 37 mph, according to the Web site.

Mattson said it would be handy to get around in the Ashtabula Gulf, if needed.

The carrier can transport 13 people, including the driver, a number that's perfect for Conneaut's SWAT team. A hydraulic rear door provides access to the rear.

In addition to hostage situations and standoffs, it can be used during blizzards and other natural disasters, Mattson said.

“Not much is going to stop it,” he said. “It’s barricaded.”

Mattson said the carrier will provide officers plenty of extra security during tense situations...







This is going on not to far from me, I know that city quite well...

They need an APC like I need a new hole in my head!

Why bother...I don't get it?

Any LEO's around that can educate me on this?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:56:00 PM EDT
The PD here has one. Can't think of when they've ever used it, but damn it's cool.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:58:08 PM EDT
Local PD over here has a big ass "tactical" 4X4, thats about it.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:59:17 PM EDT
They didn't get the surpuls M-16's that LAPD got???  By the time they got to ASHTABULA, on the surplus lists, thats all they had left?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:01:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 11:15:59 PM EDT by Sukebe]
Why? Because they can. If you could wouldn't you? I sure as hell would. We went a different route. We bought a factory new armored truck. While not a "go anywhere" type of vehicle it's a lot more practical for an urban P.D. It's used as the full time call out vehicle for SWAT. It's built on a commercial truck chassis so maintenance is a breeze. An M113 wouldn't be real practical for every day use on your run of the mill no knock warrants. I can't imagine what it's like teaching your mechanics to maintain it or get parts. A neat toy with limited practical uses.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:02:07 PM EDT
I wonder what color they are going to paint it?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:03:42 PM EDT
It's kind've a joke here. The sheriff's office I work for procured 2 old Dodge vehicles with armor on them for dirt cheap, and took enough parts from the two to make one good one, and we use about once a year, usually to safely evacuate neighborhoods during SWAT callouts when there's a chance of bullets flying. The police department my wife works for spend mega-oodles of money on a new APC that looks like the Ferret or something, complete with tires that allow it to float on water...and it hasn't bee used once in 5 years other than in the parades.

But yes, to answer your question, they do serve a purpose, but most agencies really don't use them enough to justify the beaucoup bucks spent on them. The free ones are another story!!  
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:05:36 PM EDT
Cool factor is ZERO in this case, hell...
They don't even have a place to train with an APC?


If you knew the town you would laugh too...

Hell...

I figure they couldn't even fit HALF of their SWAT unit in the damn thing.

You ever seen XXXL Kevlar?

I have...
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:06:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:08:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
I wonder what color they are going to paint it?




Black and white?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:09:28 PM EDT
Why do you hate cops, paenutz?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:15:12 PM EDT
The whole point is...
It would be better off and, maybe actually USED some where else...

Were talking about a town 60 miles from the closest heavily populated community.

Their "aka" SWAT is really nothing more then the 6 guys that have seniority and can pull rank.

Hell...

Were talking about a city that only has 3-4 officers on duty per shift!


Just struck me funny...
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:16:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
Why do you hate cops, paenutz?




HUH?


I think you are confused...
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:17:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paenutz:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
Why do you hate cops, paenutz?



HUH?

I think you are confused...



Bullshit.  You hate cops!!!

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:18:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By paenutz:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
Why do you hate cops, paenutz?



HUH?

I think you are confused...



Bullshit.  You hate cops!!!




Yeah. Just admit it.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:18:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paenutz:
The whole point is...
It would be better off and, maybe actually USED some where else...

Were talking about a town 60 miles from the closest heavily populated community.

Their "aka" SWAT is really nothing more then the 6 guys that have seniority and can pull rank.

Hell...

Were talking about a city that only has 3-4 officers on duty per shift!


Just struck me funny...





Better than having it scrapped out.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:20:20 PM EDT

They're just getting ready for "American Revolution II".


What's in YOUR wallet?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:21:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By paenutz:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
Why do you hate cops, paenutz?



HUH?

I think you are confused...



Bullshit.  You hate cops!!!




Fuck You! Sin_Bad
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:21:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paenutz:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By paenutz:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
Why do you hate cops, paenutz?



HUH?

I think you are confused...



Bullshit.  You hate cops!!!




Fuck You! Sin_Bad



Don't take it out on me because you hate cops!!!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:23:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
They're just getting ready for "American Revolution II".


What's in YOUR wallet?





Cash...


And the rest is buried in the back yard...
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:27:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By paenutz:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By paenutz:

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
Why do you hate cops, paenutz?



HUH?

I think you are confused...



Bullshit.  You hate cops!!!




Fuck You! Sin_Bad



Don't take it out on me because you hate cops!!!




Why don't you take your FBI WASH OUT Ass some where else?

Why bring your BS here?

We all know about you...

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:30:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paenutz:
Why don't you take your FBI WASH OUT Ass some where else?

Why bring your BS here?

We all know about you...




You are well known for your anti-police attitude.  I'm just calling you out on cop bashing.  You hate cops!  Admit it!

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:32:15 PM EDT
It's a weakness, not a strength.  
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:34:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By paenutz:
Why don't you take your FBI WASH OUT Ass some where else?

Why bring your BS here?

We all know about you...




You are well known for your anti-police attitude.  I'm just calling you out on cop bashing.  You hate cops!  Admit it!






What ever wana be…

Yada yada yada………….


Maybe you are just touchy because you couldn’t cut it?

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:36:59 PM EDT
I've been to Connieaut and Ashtabula, what the heck do they need one of them for?
I dont buy the blizzard line, they have plenty of redneck monster trucks up there.

This is just another indication of the coming police state.
Next they will have RPGs and Napalm. There will be no need to apologize for combustible CS the next time they BBQ a church group.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:38:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paenutz:
What ever wana be…

Yada yada yada………….


Maybe you are just touchy because you couldn’t cut it?




Made it or not.  If my department got an armored vehicle you'd be spreading hate speech!

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:44:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By paenutz:
What ever wana be…

Yada yada yada………….


Maybe you are just touchy because you couldn’t cut it?




Made it or not.  If my department got an armored vehicle you'd be spreading hate speech!






You couldn't shove your fat ass into the APC anyway piglet!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:45:12 PM EDT
You hate all cops!  You hate me because I'm a cop.  You're a cop hater!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:50:08 PM EDT
get a room

WTF do small town depts need armor?

WTF do any depts need armor?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:50:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
You hate all cops!  You hate me because I'm a cop.  You're a cop hater!




Listen you dirty rotten fuck!

The only "cop" I hate is YOU!

Take your Mall Ninja Ass back to work!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:50:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By paenutz:
What ever wana be…

Yada yada yada………….


Maybe you are just touchy because you couldn’t cut it?




Made it or not.  If my department got an armored vehicle you'd be spreading hate speech!




Grow up.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:51:36 PM EDT

You ever seen XXXL Kevlar?



BawHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH­AHAHA

I see you have the same high speed operators we have.......
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:52:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ellery_Holt:
Grow up.



Which one?

We know it's all in fun, right guys?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:56:04 PM EDT
Wait till they see what it does to the streets.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:59:41 PM EDT
Armor can be used for getting a team close to a house or target when there is fire coming from it.  

I cant imagine some podunk town police dept having one, but each to his own.  I figured they would just share resources.

Can I be a cop hater too?  Oh, wait, I am one...

Nevermind...
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 12:13:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By operatorerror:

Originally Posted By Ellery_Holt:
Grow up.



Which one?

We know it's all in fun, right guys?




For the record...

That WAS all in good fun...

But the story is real, and the means don't justify the end.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 12:24:20 AM EDT
I found a website where I can buy a Scorpion (british armor) for around 40,000
Im thinking the madmedic might have a new hunting buggy by next deer season.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:45:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By aztrooper:
Armor can be used for getting a team close to a house or target when there is fire coming from it.  

I cant imagine some podunk town police dept having one, but each to his own.  I figured they would just share resources.

Can I be a cop hater too?  Oh, wait, I am one...

Nevermind...



The term for you would be self-loathing.

While they got the vehicle itself for free, they are going to have to pay for fuel, radios, paint, maintenance, etc. All of that will come out of the taxpayers' pockets. Why? So the police can have a cool toy. From the description of their SWAT team, perhaps the taxpayers would be better served if the department bought a treadmill.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:58:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
While they got the vehicle itself for free, they are going to have to pay for fuel, radios, paint, maintenance, etc. All of that will come out of the taxpayers' pockets. Why? So the police can have a cool toy. From the description of their SWAT team, perhaps the taxpayers would be better served if the department bought a treadmill.



Even then, if they go up against a dedicated group...the tin box on tracks doesn't exactily have the armor to withstand big rounds...in Vietnam armor-piercing rounds would whip through M113's like a scythe through wheat...
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 6:21:20 AM EDT
THey'll be letting San Francisco borrow it to enforce their "No Handguns" law.

They can use it to attack the homes of those fanatics who say "Molon Labe" to the government..
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 6:49:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 6:56:13 AM EDT
What a great idea, I need to fill out the forms making me a Police department, what should I order first, M-16's or armor?

Actually a couple small mountain towns have had citizens attack the city goverment in heavy road equipment and armored bulldozers. For the armored bulldozer, you would need a TOW to take it out.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:12:41 AM EDT
If you could get your hands on an M113A1, wouldn't you jump to do so?



I agree they don't need it, but I can't condemn them for wanting one!



Damn, I want to be a cop now!


Originally Posted By paenutz:

Why bother...I don't get it?


Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:16:29 AM EDT
LOL!
This is ridiculous. They can't afford to ship this thing, but they are going to be able to maintain it and fuel it?
Which one of the SWAT guys is gonna jusmp out and break track the first time it needs it in the field? What are they going to recover their so called "go anywhere" vehicle with when Billy Bob the SWAT operator gets it stuck in a ditch?
Something tells me, this APC is gonna end up as a tourist attraction on a dirt road somewhere.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:33:19 AM EDT
Sheriff Joe has an active M109A1 tracked howitzer. I bet the barrel is still active. I'm thinking the local PD do not need military armor vehicles nor M16's, M60's, M2 Ma Deuces, LAW's, AT4's, 81mm mortars, towed 105mm arty pieces, tanks, etc. Nor does ATF need a fleet of OV-10's that are still armed, registered to a false front company, WAR BIRDS, Int'l. When does ATF need close air support or bombing ability?

Yes, lots of local agencies are getting belt fed MG's, tanks or armor, belt fed, full auto M2 .50 BMG's, M16's - regardless if they have semi parts installed or not (10 minutes to replace the FCG's).....

Face it, our police depts are becoming militarized in both cause and effect. We have Mayberry depts who now have full blown SWAT teams and are hiring former infantrymen or SF operators to fill the ranks. It's really sad. ATF used to assist you in filling out your tax forms to get your title 2 stuff. Now you'll get an MP5 in your face more often than get help from them. We had a SWAT guy get his MP5 and his M4 both stolen from his car in Dayton, OH while the cop was in a bar drinking after a training session.

Yes, I fear the police now. Do I hate cops? I have a framed picture right now of two of my best friends in the world in full raid gear standing in front of an MSCO squad car AND Sheriff Joe's M109A1. I have lots of cop friends. Doesn't mean I don't fear the system and what it has become.

A sad fact of reality.

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:35:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 2IDdoc:
LOL!
This is ridiculous. They can't afford to ship this thing, but they are going to be able to maintain it and fuel it?
Which one of the SWAT guys is gonna jusmp out and break track the first time it needs it in the field? What are they going to recover their so called "go anywhere" vehicle with when Billy Bob the SWAT operator gets it stuck in a ditch?
Something tells me, this APC is gonna end up as a tourist attraction on a dirt road somewhere.



Big PLUS one. Costs $$$ to keep her up and running. They will break tracks, just a matter of time. Who's gonna fix it? Who's gonna come pick it up and bring it back?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:56:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 8:00:32 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:03:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 8:04:03 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:16:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
"The police have themselves an RV..."



Hit it again!

Take this under advisement!
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