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Posted: 5/15/2003 6:44:55 AM EDT
In Italy is raging, in those days, a big anti-gun campaign because of two mad ones that used their weapon, having a REGULARLY ISSUED GUN PERMIT, to shoot bystanders.

btw, we had 4 episodes like these in TWO YEARS. That means (confronting 1.000.000 of gun permit existing, is NOTHING, much less of our road accident figures).

So I want to ask if anyone knows if any episode of people having a FFL Class III that start to shoot bystanders because they turned mad.

This is because I know that FFL Class III owners are submitted to a lot of checks in USA, and I want to find good argumentation against anti-gun people, QUOTING ALSO USA, and not, as usual, Switzerland, Finland, Sweden and so on...
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 7:30:59 AM EDT
[#1]
IIRC, Since 1934, there has been ONE (1) incident of illegal use of a Class III weapon.

By a Police Officer, none the less. The incident involved the shooting of a cheating wive's boyfriend (?).

Somebody correct me here if I am wrong.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 7:47:09 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
IIRC, Since 1934, there has been ONE (1) incident of illegal use of a Class III weapon.

By a Police Officer, none the less. The incident involved the shooting of a cheating wive's boyfriend (?).

Somebody correct me here if I am wrong.
View Quote


You are correct. Was late 70s or early 80s. I believe the weapon was a Mac10.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 8:08:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Would the cop in NJ that shot and injured his Police Chief and killed hiwe wife qualify?  He used his SWAT issued subgun.

Link Posted: 5/15/2003 8:43:13 AM EDT
[#4]
WOW!!! So my theory was RIGHT!!!

It is not the NATURE of the weapon, but it is the NATURE of the owner.

Not only. Most of the crimes with guns in USA are due to:

- Illegal weapons
- Legal weapons but with unchecked owners

The most potentially dangerous cathegory of gun owners, the ones that can own REAL WAR GUNS, is infact the less dangerous of all!

Good. I saw yesterday a documentary in Italy about the Swiss army: AMAZING!

They can buy averything they want, also full auto (with a special permit) and all the rest with the bare identity card. In all these decades, there were few shootings, and criminality is at the lowest rate in Europe... AND THEY ARE FULL OF FIREARMS!!!

The only cathegory is forbidden are military full auto rifles transformed in semiauto... strange isn't it?

Many thanks to you all...
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 8:51:10 AM EDT
[#5]
The case was Searcy v City Of Dayton, 1994

[url]http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/searcy_v_dayton.txt[/url]

It involved an off duty police officer who took his privately owned Mac 11 to investigate a house where drugs were being reportedly sold. (1988) In the process of doing an off duty, out of uniform, drug raid, Searcy discharged his Mac 11 and killed an alleged drug dealer. He was brought up on charges & was subsiquently sentenced. This is the only case ever, since the 1934 NFA, where a legally owned machine gun was used in commission of a crime. A cop no less.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 8:58:07 AM EDT
[#6]
Incidently there are tons of reports, research by the U.S. Department of Justice, UNICEF, etc. that all indicate in favor of firearm owners.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 9:04:03 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Would the cop in NJ that shot and injured his Police Chief and killed hiwe wife qualify?  He used his SWAT issued subgun.

View Quote


Nope, those were not NFA registered weapons. They are not owned by any individual but registered to the department.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 1:22:21 AM EDT
[#8]
btw, nobody knows exactely what is the procedure to get FFL Class III?

Should you be a USA citizen or simple permanent resident?

There is, as option, a website where all the procedure is described?

Many thanks to you all.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:09:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
btw, nobody knows exactely what is the procedure to get FFL Class III?

Should you be a USA citizen or simple permanent resident?

There is, as option, a website where all the procedure is described?

Many thanks to you all.
View Quote


There are really two classifications:

1. If you want to be a Class III dealer or more correctly a SOT (Special Occupation Tax). A standard FFL can apply to be a SOT by filling out the application and paying an additional $500 per year.

2. If you want to own transferable NFA weapons. This is for the person who is NOT a dealer. Any private citizen (assuming they are legal in his state) can buy any transferable NFA item by simply filling out a Form 4 and paying a $200 tax. One the tax stamp is issued the weapon may be transferred.

Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:32:58 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
btw, nobody knows exactely what is the procedure to get FFL Class III?

Should you be a USA citizen or simple permanent resident?

There is, as option, a website where all the procedure is described?

Many thanks to you all.
View Quote


There are really two classifications:

1. If you want to be a Class III dealer or more correctly a SOT (Special Occupation Tax). A standard FFL can apply to be a SOT by filling out the application and paying an additional $500 per year.

2. If you want to own transferable NFA weapons. This is for the person who is NOT a dealer. Any private citizen (assuming they are legal in his state) can buy any transferable NFA item by simply filling out a Form 4 and paying a $200 tax. One the tax stamp is issued the weapon may be transferred.

View Quote


Class III dealers have access to newer weapons, as they are licensed to sell to police agencies as well as private citizens. The guns available to the police and dealers are manufactured after 1986, and are reasonably priced.

The guns available to private citizens like me are called TRANSFERRABLE. There are a limited number of these guns, and they were all manufactured before 1986.  There is a fixed supply, so the price of these guns rise each year.

Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:01:35 AM EDT
[#11]
You have to be a citizen to get an ffl BTW.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:31:10 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:


Class III dealers have access to newer weapons, as they are licensed to sell to police agencies as well as private citizens. The guns available to the police and dealers are manufactured after 1986, and are reasonably priced.

The guns available to private citizens like me are called TRANSFERRABLE. There are a limited number of these guns, and they were all manufactured before 1986.  There is a fixed supply, so the price of these guns rise each year.

View Quote


Yes, but a SOT still cannot transfer a post 86 to himself. They are samples only and still pretty difficult for a SOT to get. He needs a LE letterhead request for a demo before most manufacturers will deliver one. And if he ever lets the SOT expire he must transfer the weapon to another SOT or surrender it.
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