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Posted: 7/8/2002 5:42:25 PM EST
Hi everyone! This question is mainly for people that are/have been in the air force. Everyone else you can feel free to throw out your opinion also. But this is the thing... I have been doing a lot of thinking lately about going into the military, mainly the Air Force. Most of my family is in the Air Force and they seem to be pushing the subject but I feel I need input from outsiders as well. I dont know that much about the Air Force really and would like to know how I would benefit from this branch of the military versus the other branches. Sure, I could just call a recruiter and ask these questions but then If I decide it is not for me they do not leave you alone. So I would prefer to not open that can of worms at the moment. I really appreciate the input from you guys. Thanks!!
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 5:54:38 PM EST
I'm an AFROTC Cadet, and I really wish I couuld recommend it, and if you can't get into any other Branch It is certainly better then nothing. But Fair warning, the snide quips from the other Branches wear down on you very quickly... and trust me, there is no end to the crap you get from Army personnel, Navy Personnel and particularly the Marines. You get everything from the harmless "Chair force" comments, to damn near violence by soldiers who accuse the Air Force of fratricide. You'll get more respect from Civilians then from the other branches... and thats not saying much at all.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 5:59:13 PM EST
Thanks Katana for your response. WoW! That is crazy! Do you really get that much crap from the other branches?? Well I am a female and I thought that the air force would be the best for me. But who knows.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:07:02 PM EST
I went into the Air Force after graduation in 1989. My Air Force experience was pretty good. Really chooseing a branch of service depends on what you want to do while you are in the service, how long you want to stay in the service,and what do you want to do for a career when you get out of the service?
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:08:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 6:10:01 PM EST by STLRN]
There is nothing wrong with the Air Force, and this is coming from an Officer in the Marine Corps. All service is honorable as long as you spend your time in uniform in an honorable fashion. But as Katana stated, you will hear allot of interservice rivalry between branches, and the Air Force is normally the easiest to pick on because they are in most cases more technicians in uniform than what we in the Marines and the Army like to think of ourselves as warriors. It is just a difference in the service ethos. In the AF if you don't fly, are a CCT/PJ or to a lesser extent a SF your not about meeting the enemy and killing them.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:20:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 6:24:14 PM EST by RevRob]
You just have to remember its all part of the game !!! Army and Marines razz each other and they both raz the Air Force. In the different services units razz each other and even in units Platoons, sections ect razz each other. Its all part of the competative game that keeps ya sharp. I think the Air Force just doesnt teach it like the other services do. When I was in Airborne School the Seals and Marine Force Recon used to go at it real bad, but us Army troops just shook it off. The Air Force is cool. I remember going to Wheeler AFB with some buddies. Thier mess hall was like a resterant and the food was actually good, Steak!!!!!!!. Well needless to say when someone tried to take our trays they almost got bledgend until a friend explained it was full service and not stealing our food. It was a different world. I have tried to Join the Air Force a couple of times since they are so short on Chaplains, but Im chronically ill so, No go. Joining any of the services like anything else should be well thought out. You wont see to much combat in the Air Force, but sucking dirt gets old after 3 years or so. It must be nice to go back to a bed every night :) Id go Air Force in a heart beat, but ya have to do it for yourself and country, not for what others might say.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:21:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:29:50 PM EST
I joined the Air Force while the majority of my family was Navy. I did get ribbed quite a bit, but I learned to give it right back. Besides, they were all jealous they weren't good enough for the USAF. [:D] It seems to me that the AF treats their people better as far as housing, facilities and such. I lived in the base Dormitory and never had a roommate, even as a lowly E-2. It all depends on what you want to get out of your service. I don't think any branch would be a bad choice.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:30:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sweep: I was in the AF for over 9 years. First, don't ask the recruiter any damn thing unless you want to get lied to. It really all depends on what kind of job you want in the military. If you want some action, then the AF might not be it. I actually started out in Para Rescue and got washed out. At the time, (1984) only 2 or 3 were expected to graduate out of a class of 45. Probably still the same. SO AF isn't really the way to go here. As far as technical jobs that will help when you get out, then AF is probably the best, with Navy a close 2nd. AF has better food and living condition, but at the time I got out, a bunch of cry babies also. Personally, I'd say get your 4 year BS degree and go in as an officer. Even better living conditions and better job opportunities when you get out. If you do go in enlisted plan on going to school part time and getting a degree. Warning here: It's real easy to get into the party scene and forget about school. That's wha happened to me and I didn't get a degree until right before I got out---which now is really just good for wall decoration. In order to go to school while in the AF, stay the hell away from maintenance jobs. You'll be on the flight line 12 hours a day with few days off from what I saw. Anything in supply should be safe. However, once your recruiter says you can qualify for a certian job, do not, repeat, do not let him tell you later that there's not an opening but he has something else for you. Make him keep his end of the deal. If he promises you a job, but says there's not an opeing for it, tell him to call you when there is. These guys have a monthly quota and will do anything to get you to sign. Hence the "Jodi" you'll here in basic: "Rainbow rainbow don't be blue, Our recruiter screwed us too!"
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Hay how about those Security Police, cool Blue Barrets, Beretta' amd maybe a M16? Sounds like the best of both worlds. Ya know I would generally agree that its beter to go in as an officer. But I think as a troop I was more of a soldier, the Officers always where rolled up in politics and saving face. The first time they blame thier screw up on an enlisted you loos all respect for them, and it usually didnt have to take long.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:32:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:43:11 PM EST
I'm just in a bad mood about it right now, one of my friends whom I respect incredibelly is completely against the entire organisation fo the Air force. And he's led a real distinguished carreer, he was even at the Somali incident with the 10th mountain. Hearing it from someone who's been in the Gulf War and Mogadishu etc, that the Air force needs to be disbanded really hits you in the gullet.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:47:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 9:11:16 PM EST by RevRob]
Originally Posted By Hoplite:
Originally Posted By RevRob: Rev Rob 13B,light infantry, Special Weapons and Expert Riflemen. Ill take an M4 any day.
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11b is light infantry. 13b is artillery gun crew member. Might want to fix your sig line. pretty hard to forget what MOS you are though.
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Actually 11B is Infantry period....... Stay with me Hoplite ya might learn a thing:) I was actually a 13B Special Weapons :) I was in the 25th Infantry Division and thus completed Light infantry school to be Light Infanrty qualified in 1988. Is there a problem with that?
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:50:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By Katana16j: I'm just in a bad mood about it right now, one of my friends whom I respect incredibelly is completely against the entire organisation fo the Air force. And he's led a real distinguished carreer, he was even at the Somali incident with the 10th mountain. Hearing it from someone who's been in the Gulf War and Mogadishu etc, that the Air force needs to be disbanded really hits you in the gullet.
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I can see where he is comming from but they are really apples and oranges.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:53:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:00:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 7:02:28 PM EST by Sweep]
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:01:44 PM EST
Go Air Force. Why? You are a girl, and the Air Force means lots of desk jobs and light technical jobs. It means always being able to bathe, good food, good barracks, and better treatment than you would get in the other branches. Make sure you max your bonus and college fund and don't let them send you to Thule. And don't do more than 3 years. 3 is just about right. Umm. Hey Rev, I want to be taught a little too. I was 11B1P, then 11M10, then, after I got out, was called back for Desert Storm where the Ar,y waved its magic wand and pronounced me 95B, which they never officially awarded me as an MOS BTW. I know that a 13B is a cannon cocker. I have never seen a juliet identifier before. If you were a 13BJ4 that would make you an SFC in the artillery. I have never heard of Special Weapons outside of a gunshop/website and always referred to crappy HK clones. The Army will not change your MOS after your first re-enlistment unless there is a significant shortage. Even then they are loathe to do it with a SSG much less a SFC, so how did you go 11B as an E7? My nose is starting to twitch.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:03:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By Hoplite:
Originally Posted By RevRob:
Originally Posted By Hoplite:
Originally Posted By RevRob: Rev Rob 13B,light infantry, Special Weapons and Expert Riflemen. Ill take an M4 any day.
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11b is light infantry. 13b is artillery gun crew member. Might want to fix your sig line. pretty hard to forget what MOS you are though.
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Stay with me Hoplite ya might learn a thing:) I was actually a 13Bj4 Special Weapons :) I was in the 25th Infantry Division and thus completed Light infantry school to be Light Infanrty qualified in 1988. Is there a problem with that?
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Never knew you had to be "light infantry" qualified to be in a "Light infantry Division". This is new to me. So they must put all the aviators, engineers, artillerymen through also so they meet the standard. So in 1st,3rd,24th ID they put all the soldiers through Meach infantry training because its a Mech division? Your logic isnt making any sense. The army wastes money, but not that much money.
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Look at it this way, ya might want to teach all the Artillerymen in the 82nd Airborne how to jump out of a plane so they can jump and give support ot the Infanrty, same goes for thier MPs, Engineers ect. Thats why its an Airborn Division. Conversly Light infanrty Divisions are created for specific areas of rapid deployment and combat 25th ID Jungle warfare, 10th Mountain mountains ect. That does not mean thats all they can do but its there AO area of experties. So just like an Airborn Atrillerymen needs to be trained to junp with his howitzer a Artilleryman in Light Infanrty Division has to go though Light Infanrty school to be able to Rapid deploy and keep up with the grunts in whcih ever environment thier division is design for. Thats the whole Idea of a light Infanrty Division. And its not my idea its the Army's. Thank You.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:05:26 PM EST
OH ya and regardless "I did the School baby""!!!!! :) Tropic Lightning all the way :)
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:09:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:10:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:16:08 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:17:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 7:19:36 PM EST by tinkeroni]
I think the Army is offering the best "deals" these days. They must be hurting for good men.. Edited to add "a few"
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:18:09 PM EST
Air force basic training is a breeze. Really. If you want any kinda weapons handleing you wont get any, all you get is a half day at the fireing range, and you dont even get to shoot the M-16 full auto[:(]. Basic was pretty easy, it was really a bunch of mind games. The physical stuff was easy,a timed 2 mile run as a whole unit,some jumping jacks,push ups,sit ups,leg lifts. The exam to gradutate basic was easy to. a 100 question test on Air force rules and regs, and some UCMJ stuff, just pay attention in class,read your learning material and a person with half a brain can pass the test. If you can stand someone yelling at you for six weeks basic is easy. Some people cant handle the mind games and the emotional trash talk that the training instructors do. There whole thing is to get a rag tag bunch of civilians,break them down, then build them up and make them work together as a team. Just there methods of doing this can be seen as a little harsh by some, I thought it was funny, my wrestleing coach was much harder on us then any TI I encounterd in the Air Force! Basic is at Lackland AFB in San Antonio,Texas. I went through there in September-October. The hottest time of the year. Can you say 100 degrees with a 100% humidity, that was the killer. So time of year is important whether wise. I went in and worked on the Minuteman 3 nuclear missle silos. I learned a good skill, and it is a transferable skill into the civilian job market. Part of my job was maintance on the refrigeration units on the silos, and various other maintance tasks dealing with electrical systems and pneumatic systems on the missle silos. Everyone that goes through basic is given the choice of trying out for the Para Jumpers units at least that was the way it was when I went through it might have changed since then. The Air Force was a good experience, and it kept me out of trouble being a rowdy teenager that I was. I do wish though that I would have given more thought into what I wanted to do as a career while in the Air Force and as a civilian. That would have made life for me a little simpler. I mainly went into the military to serve my country and to get far away from my parents and from the stupid state of California. A good thing to do is to take the ASVAB test and see what your scores are. Then what you can do is go to all the branches of services and see how your scores correlate to different jobs in the different branches of service. Then pick a few jobs in each service, either go to the library or do some searches on the web and see how those job skills learned in the military will benifit you as a civilian looking for work when you decide to get out of the military. Dont let the recruiters try to persuade you to join there branch of service, they are for the most part good people, but they themselves have a job to do to fill quotas and will wheel and deal to get you to join to fill there quota. Make the decision of branch of service on your terms not theres, and dont let them intimidate you either, there will be others comeing through there doors to meet there quotas, and take the time to read any and all papers you sign when talking to a recruiter and ask questions, like the old saying goes no question is a stupid question.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:18:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 7:34:09 PM EST by RevRob]
Originally Posted By poikilotrm: Go Air Force. Why? You are a girl, and the Air Force means lots of desk jobs and light technical jobs. It means always being able to bathe, good food, good barracks, and better treatment than you would get in the other branches. Make sure you max your bonus and college fund and don't let them send you to Thule. And don't do more than 3 years. 3 is just about right. Umm. Hey Rev, I want to be taught a little too. I was 11B1P, then 11M10, then, after I got out, was called back for Desert Storm where the Ar,y waved its magic wand and pronounced me 95B, which they never officially awarded me as an MOS BTW. I know that a 13B is a cannon cocker. I have never seen a juliet identifier before. If you were a 13BJ4 that would make you an SFC in the artillery. I have never heard of Special Weapons outside of a gunshop/website and always referred to crappy HK clones. The Army will not change your MOS after your first re-enlistment unless there is a significant shortage. Even then they are loathe to do it with a SSG much less a SFC, so how did you go 11B as an E7? My nose is starting to twitch.
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OK you just confused me? I never said I was 11B? Where was that now? Not sure how you came up with E7, I was a E4 when I got out. As for Special Weapons in a gun shop, lost me there too. But Im not gonna get into it.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:19:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:19:51 PM EST
Hoplite is right. You are full of bull Rev.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:29:23 PM EST
This seems the worst case of a recruiter lying to someone ive heard in a while. Light infantry artillerymen having to keep up with the grunts? GRunts will either be humping or be in Helos/trucks. I doubbt the artillerymen will be dragging their 155's attempting to keep up with the rest of the division. The statement you made about the airborne division is correct, but that is because it is there initial method for entry into combat, if an airborne operation is chosen. If it isnt that, then they are legs, or transported by helos/trucks. Mountain divisions arent 100% made for mountains. Only a small number of troops in the 10th mountain go to mountain school. The school, run by the VT nat guard, is too small to accomodate every single mountains soldier, so only the leadership goes to it. I and a few others still dont believe this whole light infantry artillery combo. What a division is specialized in, has nothing to do with everyone being an infantrymen.
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Are you calling me a lyer moron!! And yes like the Grunts we went by Helo or truck. Yoo obviiosly have no clue about Light infantry tactics. Oh ya and read it again moron I said "That does not mean thats all they can do but its there AO area of experties." So duh ya thats not all they can dooooo! Also lame brain each division has its own requirments so!!! In the end buddy where you in the 10th or the 25th???? Well I have worked in both. sooo Sounds like you have been wachting TV and listening to a recruiter. Im a Vet are you, Im looken up at my AAM handed to me ny the Army Chief of Staff in 1990, wheres yours?
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:35:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By poikilotrm: Hoplite is right. You are full of bull Rev.
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If thats thats what you need buddy :)
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:53:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 8:12:18 PM EST by Hoplite]
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 8:08:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By RevRob: Are you calling me a lyer moron!!
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Yes. And it is spelled "l-i-a-r" This is my list of assignments: 1/75th Inf 3/19th Inf 3/15th Inf 3/7th Inf (This was my Dad's regiment, so it was pretty cool to get to serve with them. I figure we have had a family member in the 7th since the War of 1812) 433rd MP Co. I wasn't a Special Weapons guy, whatever the hell that is, but I have some firsthand experience. Please respond to the questions I posed on page 1. I am dying for the answers.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 8:31:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 8:38:18 PM EST by RevRob]
OK Hoplite your a Grunt :) soo Imstill not seeing any 13B or Light Infanrty. But that is a god idea!! Ill show ya mine, ss# deleted as I agree. [url]http://www.geocities.com/helwanshooter/arty.html[/url] As you can see 13B and Light Fighter qualified. Man I should have done that from the start. Lair ya thats what I meant poikilotrm enough said :)
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 8:33:40 PM EST
I'm a retired Army Master Sergeant, over 3/4's of my time on jump status, combat arms etc. etc. etc. The finest thing you can have, when its all said and done, is an honorable discharge. That's it man, HONOR! We all ras each other, but that's things that WE do...and as far as going into the Air Force, well, if it wasn't for the Air Force, I'd be a LEG!!!
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 8:43:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 8:45:25 PM EST by Hoplite]
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 8:44:42 PM EST
Well harvestmoon7 there ya have ita perfect example of razzin eachother. In this case Grunt and Gun Bunny so dont worry what anyone says about the Air force from another service. well Ladies and Gentlemen my typing is getting worse and tomorrow is comming :)
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 8:51:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By Hoplite:
Originally Posted By RevRob: OK Hoplite your a Grunt :) soo Imstill not seeing any 13B or Light Infanrty. But that is a god idea!! Ill show ya mine, ss# deleted as I agree. [url]http://www.geocities.com/helwanshooter/arty.html[/url] As you can see 13B and Light Fighter qualified. Man I should have done that from the start. Lair ya thats what I meant poikilotrm enough said :)
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i never said i was 13b. Im 11b, light infantry until they do the big infantry change over they were talking about during my cycle, which was have 11b,11h,11m all the same under the new mos 11J, and leave 11C as mortarmen.
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Ya I know, Its late and I was RAZZIN ya :)
Light fighter is not the same school as ITB.
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Never Said it was? Its Light Infanrty not Basic Infantryman. Thats why it says 13B and Light Infantry. But I spruced it up so ya dont get more confused.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 1:31:11 AM EST
I cannot speak for the army, but in the Marine Corps our 08s have to be and are trained as infantrymen because that is our secondary mission provisional rifle companies.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 1:34:37 AM EST
First of all, my relevant background information: I am currently a Captain in the US Army. My interactions with the Air Force include: -45B AIT at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD ; air force guys were not in our classes, but we did interact during chow, weekends. -Airborne School -Slightly over 5 months stationed on Ahmed Al Jaber Air Base in Kuwait -Numerous casual contact with Air Force TACPs – the guys who live us Army folk and call in the air support. Regarding Katan16j’s friend: I personally have a problem with the mentality of many Air Force Pilots – which seems to include most of their senior leadership. I have personally been accused of “locking missiles” on F16s by Jet Jockey A-holes that don’t know when they are being interrogated by an IFF transponder. There have been too many incidences where Pilots have adopted a “when in doubt, drop a bomb or fire a missile” attitude. This most recent crap in Afghanistan is a classic example (not the still under investigation wedding thing – the Canadian live fire range thing). Most fighter pilots I have met (mainly while in Kuwait) seemed to fit this bill – too trigger happy to assess what is really going on. - too mentally isolated form the realities of the ground. However, I will add that many other Pilots, specifically the A10 guys, do not have that mentality. But then again, in their Air Force’s eyes, their job is not so “sexy.” I knew several A10 pilots in Kuwait that hated the fact that they were restricted to such a height over the ground – they said it was too high for proper target ID and acquisition. Incidentally, the Fighter f%$#ers didn’t perceive this as a problem. I will address more points here as I reply to other statements… Adam
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 1:41:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By Katana16j: You get everything from the harmless "Chair force" comments, to damn near violence by soldiers who accuse the Air Force of fratricide. You'll get more respect from Civilians then from the other branches... and thats not saying much at all.
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Part of me thinks the extent of this problem is more sue to your current environment. Let me guess, the school you attend has multiple ROTC programs, right? My guess is alot (though definietly not all) of this razzing is from guys who haven't spent a day in a real unit. As for the Civilians, for some reaosn liberals have a distaste for people who are willing to do what they refuse to think about. It is perfectly OK in liberal "academia" to discuss whetehr or not the US should have a policy to allow assassination of political leaders, for example, but it is way wrong to ask students to write about the actual act that such a policy would inevetably involve - killing a person in cold blood - such would be "too violent". As liberal make up most of the civilians you meet around a university, I am afraid the Warrior ethos espoused by your other services might be a bit much for them.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 1:47:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By STLRN: There is nothing wrong with the Air Force, and this is coming from an Officer in the Marine Corps. All service is honorable as long as you spend your time in uniform in an honorable fashion. But as Katana stated, you will hear allot of interservice rivalry between branches, and the Air Force is normally the easiest to pick on because they are in most cases more technicians in uniform than what we in the Marines and the Army like to think of ourselves as warriors. It is just a difference in the service ethos. In the AF if you don't fly, are a CCT/PJ or to a lesser extent a SF your not about meeting the enemy and killing them.
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I wanted to second what STLRN said - plus add that some of the Air Force's TACPs are some pretty hard core MFs as well - we have one guy from here who was actually the first airmen to enter the Ranger Training Brigade's "Best Ranger" competition this year. Incidentally, it was his Army battle buddy that caused themn to be unable to complete - old injury acted up too bad. And I also want to add - the Air Force - if you have the discipline to keep yourself in shape - is probably better overall for your health. The Army and Marines just seem to have a way of speeding up the aging process. But that's the way we like it. Hey STLRN: How long have you been in Japan? Also, still trying to find out for sure about the 2 M2 barrel thing - my TM shows only one as BII - but maybe the are thinking that the other one is a given as already mounted to receiver?? If so, I may be short a barrel or two. Adam
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 1:57:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/9/2002 1:59:25 AM EST by Adam_White]
Originally Posted By Sweep: AF has better food and living condition, but at the time I got out, a bunch of cry babies also.
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definitely my experience as well - in kuwait I ate 4+ times a day while on the US Air Base - and the food was soooo good. The way the poor Joes had to eat at the much larger [Army] Camp Doha was just sad. Yet for some reason, while my soldiers thought they were at Club Med, the airmen around constantly complained.
Warning here: It's real easy to get into the party scene and forget about school.
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Wayyy to easy
In order to go to school while in the AF, stay the hell away from maintenance jobs. You'll be on the flight line 12 hours a day with few days off from what I saw.
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for some reason, air force mechanics are the only excpetion to the short day, plenty oif time off mentality throughout the air force - probably because you are directly involved in the very focus of the senior leadership - their aircraft. My guess is the fighter mechanics work the hardest, probably get treated the worst. AF pilots are notoriouos for looking down on enlisted, They hate the fact that Army and Marine have the autonomy to fire weapons that can shoot them down without officer approval. At least our air defense guys can ID aircraft - AF pilots can't tell a blackhawk with fuel pods from a HIND. Anything in supply should be safe. However, once your recruiter says you can qualify for a certian job, do not, repeat, do not let him tell you later that there's not an opening but he has something else for you.
Make him keep his end of the deal. If he promises you a job, but says there's not an opeing for it, tell him to call you when there is. These guys have a monthly quota and will do anything to get you to sign.
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Sweep knows of what he speaks - don't let them pressure you into key jobs that they are trying to fill at a specific time if it is not what you want - make the recruiter work, and be willing to wait it out. He doesn't outrank you yet. Adam
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 2:02:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/9/2002 2:03:47 AM EST by STLRN]
Adam I have been here on the rock for a while now. The Marines often don't follow the army BII, we normally go with what we call SL-3 (Stock List-3) which in many ways contains the same things as BII, but on occassions for what ever reason we add or subtract items from what the army requires. When ever we send a gun to 3 or depot level for repairs we are only required to send 1 barrel with it, but we keep 2 per gun.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 2:04:02 AM EST
I'd also agree with what STLRN said. I'll give you the bottom-line up front. As a former (many, many moons ago) Air Force pilot, I'd probably go Naval Air if I had it to do over again. Some is based on intangibles, other on training and overall skill levels. (How the hell do they land on a tiny deck while it's pitching 12-15 feet?) As far as taking razzing is concerned, if you can't take it and answer back in kind, in a friendly sort of way, you don't belong in uniform, and I certainly wouldn't think I could rely on you when the going gets tough. My Marine friends call me a pussy because we had better quarters and chow in the AF. To that extent they are right. Also, I can't be mean to Marines, because Marine units picked me up in the jungle during that existence 30 years ago. Of course, they also know that being down in enemy territory isn't the easiest, either, and can be a lot tougher than being with a platoon of guys who are armed with something more than a 1911, and have the training and experience to deal with a "situation." Air Force is part of the overall mission in a changing tactical environment. Some people haven't come to grips with that. Doesn't matter whether it is right or wrong, it just is. Nevertheless, though I have no children, I'd encourage any I had to go Navy.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 2:05:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By poikilotrm: If you were a 13BJ4 that would make you an SFC in the artillery.
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Actually, that would be 13B4... mybe he was a 13B1J4?? I don't know - never heard of it myself.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 2:13:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sweep: Sounds like your friend doesn't respect you as much as you respect him. All the branches are needed! Ask him if he thinks they could have just walked into Iraq and Kuwait like they did with the small numbers of casualties they had if the Air Force hadn't bombed the crap out of them for 2 months. If he says anything other than no, he ain't to bright. I can hear Billy Mitchell rolling over in his grave right now! Bet his higher ups disagree with him too.
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A cakewalk heh??? Any takers on this - I wasn't there. The air force still has a serious problem with accurate damage assessment - it is just in their culture I guess. While the army has a history of overinflating body counts, etc. it usually doesn't lead to entire divisions facing an enemy that was supposedly "prepped" Oh, and "smart bombs" miss a lot - the ones they show on CNN are the successes. Billy Mitchel was a good pilot, but he had no practical sense of warfare. Fehrenbach said it best in his classic history of the Korean War: “You may fly over a land forever; you may bomb it, atomize it, pulverize it and wipe it clean of life—but if you desire to defend it, protect it, and keep it for civilization, you must do this on the ground, the way the Roman legions did, by putting your young men into the mud.” Adam
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 2:14:36 AM EST
Special weapons in artillery disappeared with the IRBM treaty in the Bush administration. It was only applicable for 155 and 8" weapons at the time and involved the deployment/shooting of nuclear weapons.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 2:16:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By RevRob: OK you just confused me? I never said I was 11B? Where was that now?
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you said you were light infantry
As for Special Weapons in a gun shop, lost me there too. But Im not gonna get into it.
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For those of you too new here to have been privy to any of the classic Todd bashing, I highly recommend doing some research on this. Maybe some of the more high speed types here can post some links. Todd is, after all, the Arms supplier of choice for Gecko45!
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 2:20:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By RevRob: OK Hoplite your a Grunt :) soo Imstill not seeing any 13B or Light Infanrty. But that is a god idea!! Ill show ya mine, ss# deleted as I agree. [url]http://www.geocities.com/helwanshooter/arty.html[/url] As you can see 13B and Light Fighter qualified. Man I should have done that from the start. Lair ya thats what I meant poikilotrm enough said :)
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Being a graduate of the 25th ID Lightfighter course and being "light infantry" are two entirely different things. You have to understand, our blue cord wearing brethren take this shit rather like a religion. Everyone in that division is "light". But damn, those rucks sure get heavy.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 2:24:35 AM EST
Hey STLRN: Nice to have someone around in the same time zone - you just get off work too? [:)] Adam
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 2:29:41 AM EST
Adam Yep, just back to my Q room, had to do some NJPs (Art 15s in army dialect) today so I just got back in from work, if it weren't for that 10 percent that you spend so much time on, there would not be that much to do.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 2:43:42 AM EST
One final post before I go home (at least I tell myself that now!) About the razzing: Like everyone else has said - deal with it. The only real problem is when you get too used to razzing and try to fit in among civilians not so used to the good humored shit talking. I have pissed a few people off in my day when all I expected is to come back at me with a remark of their own. About the work: One quick - my favorite - anecdote: I was tasked in Kuwait to provide two soldiers from my platoon to help the AF EOD guys clear a new training site my Battery Commander wanted us to have. My soldiers report to the Air Force guys atr 0400. At noon, these guys show upo at our missile site. Seems they were already doen for the day!! Says the AF sergeant says they start at 0400 so they can put in 8 hrs by noon at quit before it gets too hot. Had to laugh, since our guys worked 16+ hour days and were often fixing equipment out on hot metal at 1400. That was not all - they tell me the AF sergeant said I should send two new people tomorrow and give these two a day of recovery. I had to laugh, and told them they would be going tomorrow, despite what the AF guys said. Our guys were in the sun all day, every day. The Air Force has to work outside and they make such a big deal of it, it was ridiculous. Please note, the 8 hours in the morning, every other day rule did not apply to the fighter mechanics - as mentioned earlier, they tend to work their ass off - and in this case they were all outside. The refular air force guys worked in air conditioned buildings all day. A standard shift on a deployment is 12 on and 12 off. To the AF, this was long hours. To us, that was normal for garrison ops in the states. OK, one more story: Back in AIT, we had a little rivalry between our "fast" group led my a sadistic drill sergeant and the Marine Detachment. We used to always meet on the roads during PT runs and start racing each others formations, talking shit the whole time. When we came back and were ready to hit the showers and grab chow, we would look over at the AF barracks ("dorms") and see the first few lights start to come on. It always made our little rivalry seem a bit petty.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 2:46:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By STLRN: Adam Yep, just back to my Q room, had to do some NJPs (Art 15s in army dialect) today so I just got back in from work, if it weren't for that 10 percent that you spend so much time on, there would not be that much to do.
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You just reminded me I have to type up some pregnancy counseling yet tonight. Hi Ho, Hi ho, off to work I go. How bad is said problem in your support units?
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