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Posted: 8/26/2005 1:50:36 PM EDT
A question for those here who own pit bulls and defend the "breed" (term used loosely) in the numerous pit bull bashing story threads here at ARFcom:
- If you have a pit bull, do you have any kids? - Do you let the kids play with the dog? - Would you feel comfortable leaving your 2 year old -- or your 6 six year old -- alone in a room with your dog while you were in the next room for a few minutes? I'm worried about leaving my labrador retreiver with my son whose 1.5 years old, and my lab is the most gentle and wonderful dog a guy could have. Serious questions, although I know the potential for emotion on this topic is high so I'm putting on the anti-  suit as we speak.
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Posted: 8/26/2005 2:10:03 PM EDT
[#1]
My APBT is very friendly. But I wouldn't let anyone she did not know well be any where near her unsupervised. You keep your crumbsnatchers outta my yard, and I'll keep my Pit Bull in my yard. Problem solved. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 2:33:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Pitbulls and firearms. Same deal. People are mauled by some pits due to negligent owners. No way would I own one if I had children. No way would I leave a loaded weapon around children. Some people do one or the other and someone pays for their stupidity. Other people own a pit/firearm and do so responsibily.
I have no use for pits/rotts, etc. But I don't try to mold others into my situation. If everything someone thought is unnecessary were banned, there wouldn't be anything left. I have a Boykin Spaniel. Never a problem in 10 years. But I know that at some point he sees a young child as not a human but a ?. Who knows. We're real careful around children younger than 4 or 5. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 2:36:38 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 8/26/2005 2:42:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Firearm… leave it loaded on your front porch all day. Even if someone walks by it will not shoot them.
Pitbull… leave it on your front porch all day. If someone walks by it will attack them if IT decides to. Pitbulls & Firearms are NOT the same thing. One is capable of self motivated action. ANdy |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 2:46:25 PM EDT
[#5]
PIE 9mm vs .45 SIIHPAPP IBTL |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 2:48:09 PM EDT
[#6]
I would not leave a small child alone with any large dog. Our pit is great. It is about responsible owners raising a pet. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 2:54:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Right. They aren't the same. The results can be the same if good sense isn't used. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 2:59:11 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 8/26/2005 2:59:44 PM EDT
[#9]
I had no problems leaving our kid alone in a room with MY extremely well-trained pit
 I wouldn't want to leave someone else's kid in the room though.......or trust someone else's dog I caught some neighborhood kids poking him through our fence with sticks.............. that really pissed me off and I explained to those future "darwin award" winners that "right now" he likes kids, but if they kept poking him, he might attack them.........and they wouldn't like that |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 3:00:21 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 8/26/2005 3:03:48 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm not an owner... I live in an appt where I've got a little dog..
anyway, I've been around alot of them and I've let my nieces around them. I grew up with a dobbie that I found as a stray and everybody thought it would eat me... never did... Mind you this is the time when they were the pit bulls of the time... because their brains never stopped growing in their small heads and they all snapped and went crazy.  Now the APBT is the devil breed so I totally understand the way people feel about teh whole thing.... Personally I think they're gorgous dogs and when I get a house I'll most likely get myself one.... My jack russel has jumped all over friends APBTs and they've never gotten mad.. I don't worry about him being around them either.Both of my nieces have been around friends APBTs and I've never had any problem or felt they were at all unsafe. I however won't let them around other dogs depending on the way the dog acts when they're around me. The smallest is 13 months old and she rode my best friends APBT like a horse... The reason IMO APBTs are the single best breed for kids to be around is kids are rough.. THey'll hit and kick dogs.. A chow or lab may feel threatened by it while an APBT will simply take it as playing. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 3:27:31 PM EDT
[#12]
1) There is no dog breed that is fundamentally incapable of being perfectly fine around a 2-year old.
It just depends on the individual dog and how well it was trained. (You don't want a rescue dog for example, they were often abused so become skittish.) 2) You should probably never leave a 2-year old unattended with any dog. Even a small dog can do serious damage, although probably won't kill the kid. The best dogs can sometimes freak out for no reason or because the kid does something they don't like. 3) Pit bull bans are stupid. The psychos who want a "killer" dog are just gonna find another breed to abuse until their dog is as psycho as they are. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 3:29:51 PM EDT
[#13]
my guess is it'll be presa canarios (SP?) next |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 3:32:48 PM EDT
[#14]
'Good sense' don't come into it… a pitbull can initiate an attack without outside assistance, your firearm cannot. Guns are not capable of self initiated actions. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 3:34:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Schutzhund trained standard poodles. There has to be a niche there..... 
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Posted: 8/26/2005 3:42:13 PM EDT
[#16]
I'm not a pit bull owner, but I am a Rottie owner.
I've had many different types of dogs. I've been bitten by smaller dogs, but never by any of my Rotties in 15 years. My Rotties live in the same house with 4 cats, and they all play together. Never lost a cat to my dog. They even sleep together at night. This bit about dog breeds being all bad is just a bunch of crap. The bottom line is that people irresponsibly breed these dogs, and then sell them to irresponsible owners trying to look tough with a big dog. If you want the answer to the problem, look at the owner, not the dog breed. I think that "breed banners" are alot like "gun banners". They live in fear of something that they don't understand. It is impossible to debate a subject with someone living in abject fear of something. However, to answer the questions at hand, no I don't let my dog alone with small children, no matter what the circumstances, and generally I don't let my dog alone with other adults either. He's my dog and he stays with me. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 3:49:26 PM EDT
[#17]
All dogs are "pack" animals like a wolf- Pits/Shepards/Rotts included. If they recognize their position in the pack you will not have one bit of problem. From day one my shepard has understood the fact that she is on the bottom rung of the pack in relation to the kids and grand kids. About the only way she could kill one of the kids is to beat them to death with her tail or lick them to death. She is 12, the grandkids 6, 4 and 1 1/2. No problems whatsoever at any time. These kids reach into her dish while she is chowing down.... no problem. She understands what her position is.
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Posted: 8/26/2005 5:06:12 PM EDT
[#18]
Strange...this is probably the most recurring topic here at ARFCOM. Wonder why...???
Could it be because about once a month a kid is killed by a pit bull dog in America?  A kid was just mauled badly here in San Diego County. The parents told authorities that their dog had never exhibited any aggressive traits at all...until it tried to eat their two year old.
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Posted: 8/26/2005 5:08:02 PM EDT
[#19]
and the funny thing is if you look into half the pit bull attacks it wasn't an APBT... Somebody just decided to call it that.
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Posted: 8/26/2005 5:12:08 PM EDT
[#20]
But, people are bitten everyday by some type of dog. When APBT attack they do alot of damage, so it is in the news. I saw a drunk in a Chevy truck hit a Ford Mustang, Chevy Trucks must be evil. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 5:25:07 PM EDT
[#21]
1. I have had a couple pits. I didnt haev children at teh time but when they were puppies I made sure to let the neighbors kids play with them as much as possible so the dogs will grow up used to kids. 2. see above 3. I never had to leave the dogs with any kids but wouldnt haev had a problem wiht the neighbors kids with them. But with any breed. Jealousy is a factor if the kids came after the dog. It can bring out the worst in any breed. If you are planning on having kids in the near future. Wait. then get a female IMHO. Females are very protective. Males are too but female dogs seem to retain the nuturing instinct. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 5:26:03 PM EDT
[#22]
You forgot ZOMBIES |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 5:26:55 PM EDT
[#23]
9mm
9mm is better! |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 5:31:15 PM EDT
[#24]
I am sure they wont say the dog acted aggressively before. To admit that would be admitting they were keeping a child in a dangerous environment. I bet there were signs. Unfortunately Pits attract the most idiotic owners. Ever watch a show where they resue animals and the recover pits. Most pit owners are trash. Most pit owners I see are trash snd shouldnt be trusted with goldfish let alone a large dog. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 5:38:18 PM EDT
[#25]
What precisely is a "pit bull dog"? Can you clarify that for me? Or is it just any dog that you think kind of looks like this other dog that your neighbor described as having been seen to eat whole cars and shit out mopeds? Is it like an "assault style gun"? Pure cosmetics effect behavior? I know, I know, gun/dog not the same, but banning something because of how it looks is retarded. Can you at least admit that? And the reason you hear about purported "pit bull" attacks is that the media loves scary things. It's the same as a guy having 5 or 6 rifles, and when he dies everyone is oooohhing and aaaaahhhhing over his "Arsenal of deadly Assault Rifles and Cache of ammunition and Militia equipment" Which translates to a couple SKS's, an old Enfield, maybe an AR and a case of shotgun shells. Maybe a GPS unit and some maps. If you buy into the media as the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you have your head so far up your ass that you are in danger of vanishing. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 5:41:02 PM EDT
[#26]
EDIT Nevermind.. I did miss something obvious... please continue 
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Posted: 8/26/2005 5:44:55 PM EDT
[#27]
So, can you infallibly and without seeing the dog's papers, tell the difference between an APBT, American Staffordshire Terrier and a Staffordshire Terrier? How about a mix? Is any dog that has a brindle coat an APBT? What about a square head? Deep chest? Or is a pit bull dog anything the media says it is? |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 6:09:22 PM EDT
[#28]
I don't have a full pit.. but he is a mix. I'm not kidding or exagerating when I say he is the nicest, most gentle, caring, loving dog I've ever seen. He is so goofy... just too nice to be anything but harmless. Has never bitten anyone... can't remember him ever growling at anyone (except the couple of dudes that snuck up to the gate of my house).
My sister owned a APBT. She was great. Wild thing, but harmless. Never bit, never growled. Just ran around the house like a maniac every once in a while wagging her whole body. I know people argue about how they're bred to be mean and aggressive, but I truly believe it is all how you raise them. I mean, if you beat up on your kid when you're raising him/her, they're going to grow up a lot more aggressive than they would if you taught them that fighting was wrong unless necessary, and showed them care and love from the beginning. I have yet to come across an aggressive pit or pit mix. Although I was chased and almost eaten alive by a "friendly" black lab a number of years ago. Kinda funny, right? |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 10:07:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Goofy is a characteristic of pits. They are very funny dogs -- they love to make people laugh. When they do something that makes kids laugh, they do it again and again. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 10:37:07 PM EDT
[#30]
yeah no shit!! My friends damn black lab mix bit me twice before I could kick her off of me! I was bleeding nicely, and even got to take a trip to the emergency room for a tetanus shot! BAn the Lab mixed breeds, do it for the folks like myself (and the children!) |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 10:43:16 PM EDT
[#31]
I just skimmed the thread and I know that this has already been said, but I will say it again. You shouldn’t leave any baby/toddler alone with any dog/cat. I have a 1 ½ year old nephew and a 30 pound schnauzer. My nephew pokes at the dog and the dog is always very gentle with my nephew, but I wouldn’t leave them unattended.
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Posted: 8/27/2005 6:45:15 AM EDT
[#32]
I don't know about the rest of you, but I wouldn't own a dog that I didn't feel I could trust alone with small kids. Sooner or later, no matter what you do, the dog is going to be alone with kids, even if it is just in the next room. All the dogs I have owned would take any amount of abuse from kids without harming them, including the 165-pounder I currently have that will literally let a 2-year-old lead him around by the collar. |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 7:13:35 AM EDT
[#33]
That my friend is a silly word when speaking of animals. They have no concept of 'trust' or breaking it. Small kids are one thing, a toddler is something much different. My 19 month old will play and giggle and have fun with my Husky but she will also rip his hair out, poke his eyes, smack his face, and do things that really push his limits. He's done nothing but that yelp/bark/jump up mix they do but that doesn't mean that I trust him alone with her. I have no concept of trust in a dog. He's big enough to seriously injure her should she push him over the line, and she's too young to fully understand what hurts him and annoys him. I know he is trained well and what I can expect from him in normal circumstances and I also know that he has a limit somewhere. I'm old enough to see when it is approaching by his body language, she is not. They are not ever in the same room together alone, but then again I rarely leave a 19 month old in a room alone. |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 7:29:38 AM EDT
[#34]
Again, if I felt that way about any dog, I wouldn't have it. They do have a concept of what is family and what isn't and who should be attacked and who shouldn't. I am certain of that.
Nearly all of the dogs that I have owned have suffered much worse than that, without complaint. They will come and ask me for protection from the kids, but that is about it.
Maybe you need better dogs. None of mine have ever gotten to the "body language" stage --even when the kid was obviously hurting them.
I have four kids and four grandkids. The youngest of my kids is 26. From experience, I can tell you that if you own a dog, sooner or later, the kids will be alone with the dog. |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 7:32:16 AM EDT
[#35]
If you're worried about your kid being around your dog, maybe you have the wrong dog.
I (and my sibs) grew up with dogs including several retrievers that were at one time bigger than me, and we had three dobies at one point for several years. Never had any probs, the dogs thought that we were all in the same pack, and were quite protective of all of us. Strangers, that's another matter. I had a rottie that weighed 120 pounds that looked like Satan's guard dog if he didn't knwo you, but I never had a problem with him around my son, who was a little over a year old when the rottie died. I've got a cow dog, a chow, and several dachshunds around my two and four year old children, and I don't have a problem with them. FWIW, spaniels are harder on kids than PBTs. |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 7:34:43 AM EDT
[#36]
Those are some big sumbitches. |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 7:37:10 AM EDT
[#37]
Oh well if the owner of the dog said it it must be true. They surely wouldn't lie and try to cover up that maybe they had some idea that the dog was a little off and had a history of aggressiveness that they would now be liable for. Nah, never happen. ETA: I can't remember the last time I heard a parent of a dead kid say "Yup, I left them in the car even though it is 108 today." Or "Yup, I left loaded firearms laying around the house, especially in the toybox." Or "We thought it was cute when Cletus set fires in the bathroom. We were just wondering when he would get around to setting the whole house on fire." |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 7:43:45 AM EDT
[#38]
My experience is the same. I think any kid in our extended family could have probably beat the dogs to death before the dogs fought back. But God help you if you tried to mess with one of the kids when the dogs were around. I wouldn't recommend small dogs or cocker spaniels around kids, simply because they are small enough that they can get hurt easily and might nip. That's "nip", as opposed to "attack". |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 7:50:24 AM EDT
[#39]
The last list I saw showed the Dalmation as the number one biting dog in the country followed closely by the Lab and Golden Retriever.
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Posted: 8/27/2005 7:54:00 AM EDT
[#40]
The government stats show that pit bulls account for about half of all deaths. |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 8:00:04 AM EDT
[#41]
And if you (wolfman) had read the text to go along with those statistics, you would know that they basically say "Well, shucks, we pretty much called anything that looks kinda like a Pit Bull or something a Pit Bull mighta knocked up a "pit bull type dog". Don't quote that idiotic stat sheet unless you read the text. GT |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 8:14:34 AM EDT
[#42]
You can find the full text of one of the reports here: www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf and another here; www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm The latter document lists the following breeds as being the leaders: Pit bull Rottweiler German Shepherd Husky Malamute Doberman Pinscher Chow Chow Great Dane St. Bernard Akita I will grant you that a dog's lineage is nearly always in question, and news reports can be inaccurate. However, the difference between these varieties of dogs is easily distinguishable. I don't think too many people are going to confuse something from the Great Dane line with something from the pit bull line. |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 9:04:24 AM EDT
[#43]
anybody have the pit bull test?
It's a site with a bunch of dog pictures and you're supposed to pick yes or no if it's a pit bull.. Gives you all the answers at thej end |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 9:10:36 AM EDT
[#44]
Do you think you could tell the difference between a pit bull and a St. Bernard with any degree of accuracy? |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 9:14:19 AM EDT
[#45]
Probably. Honestly, I can't wait. Then maybe they'll leave my pits alone. |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 9:17:37 AM EDT
[#46]
Good sense has everything to do with it. Would you leave an unattended 2 year old around a large dog of unknown temperament? No, it's not good sense to do that. Would you leave an unattended 2 year old around a loaded firearm? No, it's not good sense to do that. |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 9:22:04 AM EDT
[#47]
Just did a little web search on annual death causes in the US, to see just how warranted the "dog bite hysteria" really is.
Very interesting information, and here is one of the site links I dug up(which may or may not be one of the best ones, but it had a good list)annual death rate causes in US It seems that although a big issue is made of the average of about 20 dog-bite deaths to humans per year, there are alot of other things much more likely to happen to you. Such as: Your more than twice as likely to be killed by a bee sting. More that 3 times as likely to be randomly hit by lightning. Very similar probablilty that you'll be smothered in a draw-string hood of your coat. Hardly a national epidemic. Obviously there is an agenda afoot to make a big issue out of a very unlikely occurrence that, while tragic, has less than .0000006% chance of happening to a person in the US per year. That's the 20 dog bite deaths per year, divided into the 300 million US population. Since this is quite obviously not even coming close to a big problem in the US, and actually falls into the statistically insignificant category, then what are we seeing? We are seeing an out-of-proportion public spectacle being made of something, by people who live in fear of animals, and want to see them banned. Yes, death from a dog bite is a tragic occurrence. So is dying from a bee sting. I think it's terrible. Should be ban bees? How about drawstring hoods? |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 9:24:00 AM EDT
[#48]
Either that or the parents were too stupid to recognize the aggressive traits and either correct the behavior or remove the dog from the household. It's amazing what some people will say to cover their asses. These are the same people that say, "Oh my little Johnny was such a good boy! He never was bad to nobody! He didn't mean to kill and rape those people! Why couldnt the po-leeeece just talk him down instead of killing him?" Once the next breed that comes along gets popularized in thug culture and they forget about pit bulls you won't hear about pit bull maulings anymore, all you'll hear about is the new breed mauling people. The thugs and idiots will find some other breed to run into the ground and the media will sensationalize that for ratings/circulation. |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 9:32:49 AM EDT
[#49]
To be fair to all breeds, the number of deaths is tiny by comparison to the number of dogs of almost any breed. |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 9:36:21 AM EDT
[#50]
that's got nothing to do with the stats and is an argument that is so full of ridiculiousness (yea I made that up) that you should be ashamed of yourself for even trying to use it. a simple fact of life is that when it comes to dogs with bad behavior any muscular built dog with big head becomes a pit bull. |
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