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Posted: 6/28/2001 8:45:53 AM EST
Do you consider yourself American first, or Jewish first? For instance, if Israel went to war against the U.S., who's side would you be on? Does it bother you that the Israelis have major espionage operations against the U.S.? These are tough questions I'm sure, but what do you all think? What made me think of this is that I was reminded the other day that often times, when asked what nationality they are, a Jewish person will say Jewish as oppossed to Polish, or German, or something of that nature. I've never asked a christian what their nationality was and heard them reply Catholic... Its like asking somebody HOW FAR it is from Texas to New York and hearing them respond with about THREE DAYS... that doesn't answer the question...
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 8:52:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/28/2001 8:55:41 AM EST by Major-Murphy]
Scipio, what do you suspect? Do you have an opinion on this? What's your hypothesis?
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 10:08:32 AM EST
Why do you think he's asking in the first place? He's obviously NOT Jewish, so he's seeking opinions FROM Jews. Answering questions with more questions. Smells like someones gettin' all primed up for some fictional persecution. Get over it Murphy, there's no witch hunt.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 10:23:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/28/2001 10:21:26 AM EST by Major-Murphy]
Easy, there. Often people have a hypothesis, i.e.: "I think jews are more loyal to Israel than to the US" They then do research (his questions) to find out if there are facts to support his idea. No big deal. No witch hunt. As to the jew and the nationality question: Many jews migrated from one area to another, like gypsys, palestinians, etc. Other's races developed in a certain area and stayed put. I suspect many don't trust jews' loyalties. The hypothetical about us going to war with Israel is just that. If the US went to war with England and Australia who would I side with? I can't imagine how this would come about, so it's a tough question. If the US went to war with factions of it's own citizenry, who would YOU side with?? I'd need more info to answer this.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 10:30:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 10:50:02 AM EST
Uh-oh, not this again. Haven't we learned our lesson M4? [;)] Just kidding...on with the discussion, it's an interesting question. As far as espionage goes, everybody spies on everybody.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 11:07:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By Chimborazo: As far as espionage goes, everybody spies on everybody.
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I agree. The US spies on everyone, and that includes economic espionage against other countries and their economic and financial interests (not just on grounds of the national security of the US). Makes us look a little hypocritical when we catch someone doing the same to us.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 11:09:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/28/2001 11:08:21 AM EST by THISISME]
If you asked any of our nations founding fathers if the United States Of America where to declare war on their home state who’s side would they fight for it is likely most would fight for their state against the national government as most considered themselves Virginians and Carolinians and what not first and Americans second. Perhaps Washington should have been questioned about this before he was elected President. If our government where rounding up Jews to be placed in internment camps and they where looking for people who live on your block would you turn them in? THISISME
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 11:14:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By kpel308: P.S.: I have Jewish friends that I've asked similar questions, and it varied from, "USA first!" to "I am a Jew and owe my first allegiance to Israel" Kind of like we have supposedly "American" people who refuse to pledge allegiance to our flag at all. SF! KL
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The Jewish people have been persecuted for centuries in different countries, and have consequently learned that they survive by banding together. This is neither right or wrong, but it is entirely understandable (to me, anyway). I am an immigrant, and am proud to be an American now. However, I will also say that America should continue to give its citizens reasons to say that they are proud Americans. Blind patriotism is ultimately never in the public interest, for any country. My country right or wrong... When right, to be kept right, When wrong, to be set right.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 11:17:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By THISISME: If our government where rounding up Jews to be placed in internment camps and they where looking for people who live on your block would you turn them in? THISISME
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If they were supporters of the ADL/SPLC/HCI type groups I would. These people have never heard of the term "they eat their own" which is what all totalitarian governments ultimately engage in. Now if they were JPFO or other pro-Constitution type group supporters I wouldn't turn them in.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 11:20:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By kpel308: Pssst... WE'VE GOT GAY MEMBERS TOO!!!!!
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WE DO? Maybe I need to consider a different hobby.....
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 11:31:17 AM EST
I am a Christain first and a citizen second. First came the Bible then the Constitution. No Bible, no Constitution. No Constitution, no USA.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 11:40:20 AM EST
Imbrog|io, For some reason I cant tell who they support just by looking at them. I would just have do what I feel is right. Copy what HANGFIRE said. THISISME
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 11:54:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/28/2001 11:53:29 AM EST by McUZI]
nah...
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 12:04:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io:
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If they were supporters of the ADL/SPLC/HCI type groups I would. These people have never heard of the term "they eat their own" which is what all totalitarian governments ultimately engage in. Now if they were JPFO or other pro-Constitution type group supporters I wouldn't turn them in.
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Who cares what groups or ideas any of [b]YOUR[/b] fellow Americans support. Just because it doesn't jibe with your personal politics you'd turn them in? The laws of true free expression stop at Imbroglio's doorstep? Your as bad as the sheeple of pre WWII Germany, or any society that persecute based on creed or religion. Go read "The Hangman." They'll come for you too.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 12:29:45 PM EST
I am an AMerican first, a jew second. God will forgive me the positioning of my priorities, politicians will not.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 2:00:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By sherm8404:
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io:
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If they were supporters of the ADL/SPLC/HCI type groups I would. These people have never heard of the term "they eat their own" which is what all totalitarian governments ultimately engage in. Now if they were JPFO or other pro-Constitution type group supporters I wouldn't turn them in.
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Who cares what groups or ideas any of [b]YOUR[/b] fellow Americans support. Just because it doesn't jibe with your personal politics you'd turn them in? The laws of true free expression stop at Imbroglio's doorstep? Your as bad as the sheeple of pre WWII Germany, or any society that persecute based on creed or religion. Go read "The Hangman." They'll come for you too.
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The things ADL/SPLC/HCI supports goes beyond "personal politics" and "free expression". They are RIGHT NOW trying to turn people into criminals overnight. I am not the one going around actively persecuting people. Do onto others...
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 5:56:28 PM EST
I am a friend to any Jew here. Hopefully they and I together will change the minds of many other Jewish Americans that don't conect the RKBA with preventing a future Hollocaust. BTW, if the Fed declared guns illegal and Gov. of Texas called for seccession, who would I support? Who do you think?
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 6:50:42 PM EST
Living near the border with Mexico. I have always felt, and been told by a few people, that many Mexican/Americans have took the attitude from the beginning they were Mexicans who just happen to live in America vs. Americans that happen to be of Mexican descent. Like Jewish people, or any group, I know by some percentage these feeling at some level or taken. I think a better question for Isralis is: As an Israeli how do you feel about your people being persecuted for thousands of years, and how that plays a part in persecuting muslims living in and around israel? (ie killing "suspected" muslims in their cars with hellfire shot from Apache helicopters, we the U.S. gave them, and blowing up ambulances picking up wounded; (2 recent examples.) This is no different than McVeigh and no more right than his actions! And for Americans of Jewish descent: The U.S. has given upwards of 150 billion dollars to israel since 1948 and why should the U.S. continue supporting a country which spies on us and does actions like the above 2 fairly regularly? Would you support those actions to be done on any ethinic group here in the U.S.? I know these are loaded questions.. But does it make you think?
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 7:37:48 PM EST
I wonder what answers non Jew Zionists would give?
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