Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 7/27/2005 9:15:43 AM EDT
Could you explain to me the reasons why you believe what you do?

Is it based on personal preferences, verifiable evidence, special revelation, family tradition, etc.?

I'm not going to respond with debate points or criticism in this thread.

I just want to better understand why you believe what you believe.

I ask that my fellow Christians respect the intent of this thread and just let people express themselves without turning it into arguments.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 9:22:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 9:28:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=135&t=371954



The first Religion forum dupe?
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 9:32:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2005 12:09:40 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]
Edited<va-gunnut>
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 9:35:44 AM EDT
The question is open to pagans, agnostics, Hindus, Ba'Hais, etc.

Since this is the "religion" forum, it's their turf, too. I just want to better understand what makes others tick and establish a rapport of sorts, not baiting.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 9:38:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mobius:
fairy tales is all it is, for the weak minded.


ARGGGGG!

*stomps foot.. considering starting a new topic because I don't want to hijack this thread*
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 10:34:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hydgirl:

Originally Posted By mobius:
fairy tales is all it is, for the weak minded.


ARGGGGG!

*stomps foot.. considering starting a new topic because I don't want to hijack this thread*



Go ahead and start an appropriate thread to address your point, then please come back and post here.

I really want to know what you think. This is your forum, too.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 10:39:59 AM EDT
I believe Jesus live and died as a man. His followers deified him, which happens in a lot of religious movements. Paul came along and tagged on platonic concepts like the Logos and melded Jewish and Greek though into what we know as Christianity today.

I believe that the historical Jesus is there somewhere below the myths we've build up around him, but I don't think we can recover much about the man after 2000 years (barring a new discovery)

I'm not rebelling against Jesus or God, I just don't believe in God generally and I don't believe a man can become God or vice versa for philosophical reasons.

I think if Jesus had been successful and lived Christianity would be much different, possibly even just a subsect of Judaism.

thats it in a nutshell

Link Posted: 7/27/2005 10:44:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:
I believe Jesus live and died as a man. His followers deified him, which happens in a lot of religious movements. Paul came along and tagged on platonic concepts like the Logos and melded Jewish and Greek though into what we know as Christianity today.

I believe that the historical Jesus is there somewhere below the myths we've build up around him, but I don't think we can recover much about the man after 2000 years (barring a new discovery)

I'm not rebelling against Jesus or God, I just don't believe in God generally and I don't believe a man can become God or vice versa for philosophical reasons.

I think if Jesus had been successful and lived Christianity would be much different, possibly even just a subsect of Judaism.

thats it in a nutshell




OK, fair enough.

Back to the original question, can you explain why you believe that.

Don't worry, it's not a trap. Like I said, I'm not going to make counter-arguments or rebuttals in here.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 10:59:54 AM EDT
Brohawk:

Is it based on personal preferences, verifiable evidence, special revelation, family tradition, etc.?

For myself, having attended Catholic schools and a Catholic University, I found Catholicism in general, and Christianity itself problematic. Please let it suffice, without my going into further details, that I began a journey. I had friends who were Jewish, and would periodically attend services with them. I continued this for several years before deciding to commit, and begin formal study with a rabbi, which took several more years until my conversion to the Jewish faith.

Ed


Link Posted: 7/27/2005 11:07:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:
Brohawk:

Is it based on personal preferences, verifiable evidence, special revelation, family tradition, etc.?

For myself, having attended Catholic schools and a Catholic University, I found Catholicism in general, and Christianity itself problematic. Please let it suffice, without my going into further details, that I began a journey. I had friends who were Jewish, and would periodically attend services with them. I continued this for several years before deciding to commit, and begin formal study with a rabbi, which took several more years until my conversion to the Jewish faith.

Ed





Interesting.

My personal studies have led me toward the Jewish roots of Christianity, kind of a Messianic theology. There is much in standard Christianity that deviates from its Jewish origins, such as traditions adopted from pagan cultures.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 11:12:43 AM EDT
The more I've learned about the multitude of religions that exist and have existed, the less I believe in any single one.

There may be God, and if so, he's given mankind a whole bunch of different ways to approach him.

The notion that any religion is "right" is patently absurd in my opinion.

Interestingly, my time at arfcom started me thinking and learning about religion and its causes.

Link Posted: 7/27/2005 11:18:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=135&t=371954



The first Religion forum dupe?



Actually I think Jesus Christ did that when He first started quoting the old Testament.

St. Peter was the first Christian to yell "Dupe J-man"


I think it's cover in the Book Of Moderators 1: 4

SGatr15
Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 11:19:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mobius:
that thread is about the non-belief of a "god"........Brohawk is asking about not beliveing in a "christ" or the so called "son of a god"..ie "christian"

I put the believe in a "christ", in the same realm of believing in a "god" utter nonesense. there is no historical record that this so called "jesus christ" ever existed.......and certainly no proof that a non existant "god" inpregnated some woman. fairy tales is all it is, for the weak minded.



Link Posted: 7/27/2005 11:22:55 AM EDT
NoVaGator

____________________________________________________________

The question of which religion is right is not, I believe, the question. Each of us are unique, and may or may not have found our niche within a faith community that is "right" for us; the question then more accurately reflects the nature of people to gravitate towards a faith communities beliefs.

It's not that any religion is or may be "right", only that, should one chose, they should then find the "right" place for themselves. Religion is simply to complex to approach in any other way.

Ed
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 11:30:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:
NoVaGator

____________________________________________________________

The question of which religion is right is not, I believe, the question. Each of us are unique, and may or may not have found our niche within a faith community that is "right" for us; the question then more accurately reflects the nature of people to gravitate towards a faith communities beliefs.

It's not that any religion is or may be "right", only that, should one chose, they should then find the "right" place for themselves. Religion is simply to complex to approach in any other way.

Ed



I agree with that, and I bet I'll be almost the only one to do so!
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 11:31:09 AM EDT
Actually I think Jesus Christ did that when He first started quoting the old Testament.

_____________________________________________________________________

It would not have been new to him, as Jesus as portrayed in the Christian New Testament is that of a Jew. Of course he would have made reference to his religion.

He most likely didn't have blue eyes and blond hair, but was a Jew of his time. The Gospels relate he obeyed the commandments, and took part in sacrificial worship of the Temple when he was in Jerusalem. Like the prophets in whose tradition he stood, he objected to these things only when they were done mechanically, without the intention toward G-d that made them valid.


Link Posted: 7/27/2005 11:54:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By Dino:
I believe Jesus live and died as a man. His followers deified him, which happens in a lot of religious movements. Paul came along and tagged on platonic concepts like the Logos and melded Jewish and Greek though into what we know as Christianity today.

I believe that the historical Jesus is there somewhere below the myths we've build up around him, but I don't think we can recover much about the man after 2000 years (barring a new discovery)

I'm not rebelling against Jesus or God, I just don't believe in God generally and I don't believe a man can become God or vice versa for philosophical reasons.

I think if Jesus had been successful and lived Christianity would be much different, possibly even just a subsect of Judaism.

thats it in a nutshell




OK, fair enough.

Back to the original question, can you explain why you believe that.

Don't worry, it's not a trap. Like I said, I'm not going to make counter-arguments or rebuttals in here.



I believe it because from my reading on the subject its what I think happened. I could be 100% wrong and Jesus could be the son of God. I could be 100% wrong and he is totally mythical (as some think).

I believe it because its the answer that makes the most sense to me, given the information we have.

Link Posted: 7/27/2005 11:55:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:
NoVaGator

____________________________________________________________

The question of which religion is right is not, I believe, the question. Each of us are unique, and may or may not have found our niche within a faith community that is "right" for us; the question then more accurately reflects the nature of people to gravitate towards a faith communities beliefs.

It's not that any religion is or may be "right", only that, should one chose, they should then find the "right" place for themselves. Religion is simply to complex to approach in any other way.

Ed



I agree with that, and I bet I'll be almost the only one to do so!



at least one other

Link Posted: 7/27/2005 12:11:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 7:11:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By Dino:
I believe Jesus live and died as a man. His followers deified him, which happens in a lot of religious movements. Paul came along and tagged on platonic concepts like the Logos and melded Jewish and Greek though into what we know as Christianity today.

I believe that the historical Jesus is there somewhere below the myths we've build up around him, but I don't think we can recover much about the man after 2000 years (barring a new discovery)

I'm not rebelling against Jesus or God, I just don't believe in God generally and I don't believe a man can become God or vice versa for philosophical reasons.

I think if Jesus had been successful and lived Christianity would be much different, possibly even just a subsect of Judaism.

thats it in a nutshell




OK, fair enough.

Back to the original question, can you explain why you believe that.

Don't worry, it's not a trap. Like I said, I'm not going to make counter-arguments or rebuttals in here.



I pretty much agree with Dino's opinion of Jesus.

However, as far as your question about 'why', here goes:

In the natural world, things just are (and we are indeed part of the natural world). They don't need a reason or rationale. We are eventually going to get creamed by a giant asteroid. Is there a purpose to that, or will it be simply a result of 'typical' astrophysics no different than what happens to the lifeless worlds about the universe.

Our cognition is no different. There are many theories about how it developed, but here is my own taken from the best ones. The ascent of humanity was driven by intellectual prowess. We are physically very weak and fragile. Our skin bakes in the sun, whereas the same sun aids a Crocs digestion. We are blind compared to a Hawk. We have no sense of smell compared to a dog. Etc, Etc, Etc,... We have had to think our way to the top. Thus the question of 'how' is instinctual, because the improvement on 'how' is what got us here. We have learned that one of the shortcuts of getting to the 'how' is asking the question 'why'. However, this question is generally restricted to the mechanism, as opposed to a rationale. Our brains have developed to the point where we can accept and practice the art of 'planning' (for lack of a better word). From that ability, it's not much of a leap to wonder if we and everything else are a part of a greater plan? Remember that the natural world is mostly void of constructs like good and evil. For example, was the Bubonic Plague evil, or just a strong naturally occuring pathogen traveling a distance...
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 7:39:28 PM EDT
After giving your question some thought......I don't really have a good answer. I would like to believe in a higher power, my problem is I don't trust anything that is interpreted by man.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 7:40:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
The more I've learned about the multitude of religions that exist and have existed, the less I believe in any single one.

There may be God, and if so, he's given mankind a whole bunch of different ways to approach him.

The notion that any religion is "right" is patently absurd in my opinion.

Interestingly, my time at arfcom started me thinking and learning about religion and its causes.






Questions -

Is there only one right placement of a round into the chamber of a wheel gun?

Is there only one right answer to 2+2 = ?

Is there only one right value for the mathematical charachter Pi?

Then how can the FAR FAR more important issue of how we approach God have multiple right answers?

A God who allows anyone to approach Him from an extemsive multiple choice list is NOT God. He's a grand pubah of teh Elk's Lodge.

Link Posted: 7/27/2005 7:40:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
After giving your question some thought......I don't really have a good answer. I would like to believe in a higher power, my problem is I don't trust anything that is interpreted by man.



Do you trust your own interpretation?

Link Posted: 7/27/2005 7:48:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
After giving your question some thought......I don't really have a good answer. I would like to believe in a higher power, my problem is I don't trust anything that is interpreted by man.



Do you trust your own interpretation?




Heck no!! .....I came to this board thinking I "knew it all" about the AR15/M16 system.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 7:55:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
After giving your question some thought......I don't really have a good answer. I would like to believe in a higher power, my problem is I don't trust anything that is interpreted by man.



Do you trust your own interpretation?




Heck no!! .....I came to this board thinking I "knew it all" about the AR15/M16 system.



Well, in a sense, its good not to trust your own interpretations.

But seriously - how do you know anything about anything, if you don't trust others, and you don't trust yourself?

Link Posted: 7/27/2005 8:06:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
After giving your question some thought......I don't really have a good answer. I would like to believe in a higher power, my problem is I don't trust anything that is interpreted by man.



Do you trust your own interpretation?




Heck no!! .....I came to this board thinking I "knew it all" about the AR15/M16 system.



Well, in a sense, its good not to trust your own interpretations.

But seriously - how do you know anything about anything, if you don't trust others, and you don't trust yourself?




Because most things can be "checked out" and proven to be true or not. If you tell me that a Bushmaster barrel is better than a Colt I can if I choose try both and see if it true. If you tell me that the Jesus is the true God I can't do much but beleive you or not.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 8:12:26 PM EDT
Hey scuba _ed, do youy think that maybe you can take the time to learn board code?

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 8:13:46 PM EDT
If Jesus is just a man and not the Son of God then His message is worthless.

SGtar15
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 8:19:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
If you tell me that the Jesus is the true God I can't do much but beleive you or not.



A common misconception.

You CAN independently test the validity of the assertion that Jesus is God.

In fact, ONLY you can do it for yourself. Consumer Reports and Underwriters Laboratories cannot do it for you.

Its not easy, but here's how you do it -

Read the Gospel of John once a month for three months. And see if its truths don't ring true, EVEN in a real world, scientific sense. Then test other Scripture. See if it also holds up to intense scrutiny.

EVERY SINGLE "true beleiver" has gone thru this exercise.

Link Posted: 7/27/2005 8:28:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
If you tell me that the Jesus is the true God I can't do much but beleive you or not.



A common misconception.

You CAN independently test the validity of the assertion that Jesus is God.

In fact, ONLY you can do it for yourself. Consumer Reports and Underwriters Laboratories cannot do it for you.

Its not easy, but here's how you do it -

Read the Gospel of John once a month for three months. And see if its truths don't ring true, EVEN in a real world, scientific sense. Then test other Scripture. See if it also holds up to intense scrutiny.

EVERY SINGLE "true beleiver" has gone thru this exercise.




I'll give it a shot.......but I have read the Bible before [twice actually] and most went over my head. Problem comes in with understanding what your reading and a open mind as well.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 11:30:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2005 11:34:03 PM EDT by Green_Ammo_223]
Faith. That's the one thing about Christianity that keeps me up at night. What is faith really?
How do you get it and not be a patsy for anyone peddling a deity?
I read the Bible, the apocrypha and any and all other early Christian/historical writings I can find but it all comes down to faith.
Where do I place faith, should I have faith that I will find faith, should I have faith in a man that tells me to place my faith within him??
This is my conundrum.
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 3:37:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

I'll give it a shot.......but I have read the Bible before [twice actually] and most went over my head. Problem comes in with understanding what your reading and a open mind as well.



Glad to hear you're willing to give it a shot.

I first tried reading the Bible using just my own human understanding. I didn't understand it, and I totally got some major messages wrong. There is a verse that says (in paraphrase) spiritual things are spiritually discerned an the natural mind can't grasp them.

Before each time you crack the Book open, say a short, simple prayer and ask God to help you understand. He has promised that when you seek Him with your whole heart you will find Him.

Link Posted: 7/28/2005 5:52:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2005 7:32:56 AM EDT by NoVaGator]

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
The more I've learned about the multitude of religions that exist and have existed, the less I believe in any single one.

There may be God, and if so, he's given mankind a whole bunch of different ways to approach him.

The notion that any religion is "right" is patently absurd in my opinion.

Interestingly, my time at arfcom started me thinking and learning about religion and its causes.






Questions -


Is there only one right answer to 2+2 = ?





I'll just focus on this one since these are allegory anyway:

0+4
1+3
2+2
6-2
7-3
5-1
could all be placed to right of your "="

Those are just a small selection of the positive whole numbers....and I didn't even use permutations (1+3 and 3+1) or algebraic expressions [(2*(3-1)].

I don't think God, if there is one, is as simple as 2nd grade arithmetic.
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 6:06:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
St. Peter was the first Christian to yell "Dupe J-man"
I think it's cover in the Book Of Moderators 1: 4

SGatr15
Sgat1r5



You have much to learn, stargrntar15. It is often translated as "Dupe J-man" in the Even Newer ReRevised Standard Version, but in the original haxx0r, it is "Dupe J-dog". The ramifications of this egregious mis-translation should be clear.
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 10:17:33 AM EDT
Hey scuba _ed, do youy think that maybe you can take the time to learn board code?

Sgat1r5


_________________________________________________________________

Plz enlighten me, how have I offended?
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 6:50:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By garandman:
Questions -


Is there only one right answer to 2+2 = ?





I'll just focus on this one since these are allegory anyway:

0+4
1+3
2+2
6-2
7-3
5-1
could all be placed to right of your "="




ALL of which have the SAME ANSWER as the question I posed. But 2+2= has only ONE right answer.

I asked for an ANSWER, not OTHER questions / formulas.



I don't think God, if there is one, is as simple as 2nd grade arithmetic.



Which makes my point.

If 2+2= has ONLY ONE right answer,a nd Pi has ONLY ONE precise value - and are such elementary concepts - then it would follow that something as complex as God and mans eternal destiny would also be as precise and exclusive in nature.

Its like the movement of a gun barrel. Shoooting short distances, any movement causes lesser variances in shot placement. But move the target out to 300 yards, and that same amount of barrel movement causes HUGE variances in shot placement.

(In this example, "short distances" represents concepts like 2+2, and 300 yards represents the concept of God. The farther teh distnace and the more complex the concept, the greater the precision required)

THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO GOD.

HIS way.

Link Posted: 7/28/2005 6:58:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

I'll give it a shot.......but I have read the Bible before [twice actually] and most went over my head. Problem comes in with understanding what your reading and a open mind as well.



Glad to hear you're willing to give it a shot.

I first tried reading the Bible using just my own human understanding. I didn't understand it, and I totally got some major messages wrong. There is a verse that says (in paraphrase) spiritual things are spiritually discerned an the natural mind can't grasp them.

Before each time you crack the Book open, say a short, simple prayer and ask God to help you understand. He has promised that when you seek Him with your whole heart you will find Him.




Well I fiqure I'll atlest learn something [which is always a good thing] new. Right now all I know about it is covered in Lev 18:30.
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 3:07:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Well I fiqure I'll atlest learn something [which is always a good thing] new. Right now all I know about it is covered in Lev 18:30.



LOL!

There's so much more. In the balance, it's overwhelmingly good when you begin to put the Big Picture together.

Many people see the Bible as a book of "don'ts." However, there are many "do's", and if people would focus on doing the do's, they'd be too busy to worry about the don'ts.

Link Posted: 7/29/2005 7:57:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2005 1:26:25 PM EDT by MartinR]

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Could you explain to me the reasons why you believe what you do?

Is it based on personal preferences, verifiable evidence, special revelation, family tradition, etc.?

I'm not going to respond with debate points or criticism in this thread.

I just want to better understand why you believe what you believe.



Brohawk,

While this is likely a waste of time - you've made up your mind that non-christians are wrong, I'll reply with a very brief summary of my reasons.

I grew up in a strong Chistian home - Dad was a missionary in Africa for 3 years in early 60's, and Mom was Director of Christian Education w/ Methodist Church before they were married. On Sundays it was obvious that we went to Sunday school and church. My brothers and I attended several Christian schools and VBS over the years - each with a slightly differnt message (but each using the same Bible - or near enough).

During high school I started to ask the questions of "Which denomination is correct?" - since most Christian denominations looked so much alike.

This shortly led to "Which religion is correct?" - since most religions seemed to have many values which looked so much alike. (I still try to follow most of the moral teachings - IMHO, part of a good way to live a long and happy life).

Also, I was frustrated with the hipocracy of alleged "Christians" (I later achnoleged that this is irrelevant as to truth, but it was a factor in my search at the time).

I joined a non-denominational "philosophy" club in college that was serious in the pursuit of truth - the Self Knowledge Symposium. One of the most important features was that it encouraged each person to "figure it out for themselves" (something that rang true to me).

Christianity (and most religions) expect one to take a step of "faith" in something or someone. I learned from my Philosophy of Science class that even science takes steps of faith - although much smaller steps (ie. - assuming that the world follows certain laws). To me, the small steps of faith that science is based on has MUCH more validity than the faith that some "god created the earth" or the dead go to some "happy hunting grounds" or "heaven" or "hell".

I remember an analogy from the SKS club about a man who went to a guru wanting to find "the blue shaman". The guru told him to chant in front of a wall at the monestary and after 10 years he would see the blue shaman. After 10 years of chanting in front of a wall he would certainly see the blue shaman.

The point is that a person could never admit they'd wasted 10 years of their life to an illussion. The natural connection is to ANY religious conviction. The more time one spends DEEPLY ingrossed in their belief, they are less and less willing to see it for the fallacy it is.

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Mathew 7:7

Just be careful what you seek - you shall find it. Truth, peace, problems, etc.

Martin


PS www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

PPS "Judge not, lest ye not be judged" Mathew 7:1

PPPS "If you long for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe;
If you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire" Frederich Neitzchie
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 8:15:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MartinR:

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Could you explain to me the reasons why you believe what you do?

Is it based on personal preferences, verifiable evidence, special revelation, family tradition, etc.?

I'm not going to respond with debate points or criticism in this thread.

I just want to better understand why you believe what you believe.



Brohawk,

While this is likely a waste of time - you've made up your mind that non-christians are wrong, I'll reply with a very brief summary of my reasons.



Not a waste. While I am convinced of tha validity of my faith (following a challenge in which I was fully prepared to toss it out), I know that there are others who believe differently. I'm just trying to understand and get to know some other folks in the forum.

For example, Shane333 and I disagree on some key points. We had an exchange where I asked him about his beliefs. In the end, I better understood where he was coming from and no personal attacks came out of it.

The First Amendment works for all of us.

My attitude toward interfaith discussions is based on a couple basic principles:

1. Our Consititution gives us each the right to believe (or not) as we choose.

2. We can respect that right while exercising inquiry and comparing different belief systems. After all, I doubt God is afraid of the tough questions.



I joined a non-denominational "philosophy" club in college that was serious in the pursuit of truth - the Self Knowledge Symposium. One of the most important features was that it encouraged each person to "figure it out for themselves" (something that rang true to me).


If this individual, philosophical approach leads different people in different directions, is there such a thing as Truth? Can contradictory "truths" and concepts of God coexist and be equally valid? How can you know anything if it is based on individual feelings and opinions?


The point is that a person could never admit they'd wasted 10 years of their life to an illussion. The natural connection is to ANY religious conviction. The more time one spends DEEPLY ingrossed in their belief, they are less and less willing to see it for the fallacy it is.


People convert from one faith to another all the time. Elsewhere, ScubaEd told us of his conversion to the Jewish faith. Other people convert to Christianity from other faiths. This requires a decision that they were on a wrong path and decided to change lanes (metaphorically).

Welcome aboard!
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 2:26:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:Could you explain to me the reasons why you believe what you do?Is it based on personal preferences, verifiable evidence, special revelation, family tradition, etc.?I'm not going to respond with debate points or criticism in this thread.I just want to better understand why you believe what you believe.


Initially my beliefs where based on family tradition ie : I believed what I was first exposed to, Christianity--specifically southern baptist hell fire type.

Currently my beliefs are based upon verifiable evidence.
1. People tend to believe what they are initially exposed to, no matter what that may be.
They will however trade that belief system off for a better, less oppressive, or easier one.
If I had been born on a different continent I would have had a different religion/belief system,
hopefully it would not have required something crazy like human sacrifice or circumcision at age
20.

2. This is a common denominator in getting anyone to believe anything



I first tried reading the Bible using just my own human understanding. I didn't understand it, and I totally got some major messages wrong. There is a verse that says (in paraphrase) spiritual things are spiritually discerned an the natural mind can't grasp them.
Before each time you crack the Book open, say a short, simple prayer and ask God to help you understand. He has promised that when you seek Him with your whole heart you will find Him.




Through prayer or autosuggestion, repetitive exposure, whatever you want to call it, you prepare your mind [or someone else’s] for susceptibility. Give a little ego stroke by saying that you are special if you can understand it. Put your entire being into the endeavor. bingo ----you are now programmed with a new belief system. Just for good measure you should reinforce it frequently with reading, singing, praying, and most importantly====pass it on.

They all do it essentially the same way ,some use more repetition, some use highly charged emotional smoke and mirror shows, some use fear. It's still snake oil.

3.If you are not pre-programmed as a child (hence the get um young philosophy) You must make a choice to believe, that is, you must be convinced to start down that road. If it where crystal clear there would be no struggle.

4. Special revelation I'm not sure what I would call it, but at a particularly bleak time in my life I had a very profound -experience- sort of like the Damascus rd story lol, I became acutely aware that I am responsible for what I choose to believe, and that will in turn dictate my experience in life.

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:00:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Well I fiqure I'll atlest learn something [which is always a good thing] new. Right now all I know about it is covered in Lev 18:30.



LOL!

There's so much more. In the balance, it's overwhelmingly good when you begin to put the Big Picture together.

Many people see the Bible as a book of "don'ts." However, there are many "do's", and if people would focus on doing the do's, they'd be too busy to worry about the don'ts.




I going to start on my reading assignment and I have a question......does it matter what Bible I use? I have a copy of the King James version.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 1:13:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 1:14:15 AM EDT by Beltfedleadhead]
I came about my decision towards non-belief in a deity when I was 12. I realized that in order to build a society that would not self-destruct in it's infancy, you needed a system of rewards and penalties. You needed a system of rules that touched everyone and effected them on a deeper level than the Laws of the Land did.

Sure, prostitution was illegal, did that stop people from doing it? No. Why? Because it was enjoyable. If you introduced a belief system that taught that wanton reckless sex was frowned upon because God didn't like it, it ceased to be a source of enjoyment.

The thought of burning in a fiery pit for eternity for your actions turned many people off to the thought of sinning. But the secret was not to tell them that they were doing it for the sake of society, preventing the spread of disease and whatnot, the trick was to make the penalty personally important to the selfish masses. Important enough to act for the good of society by thinking they were saving themselves.

Bottom line: Religion was the KEY to building a society of people driven by simple HUMAN instincts. Without the threat of an afterlife spent in agony, people would do what they wished, consequences be damned. Of course there was no REAL threat of hell and damnation, but the powers that be weren't about to let that out of the bag. As time progressed, those in charge came under the spell of religion, and it became a self-perpetuating phenomenon.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:26:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
I going to start on my reading assignment and I have a question......does it matter what Bible I use? I have a copy of the King James version.



Personally I find the New King James to be a bit clearer because it doesn't use some of that archaic 1611 sentence structure.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:47:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

I going to start on my reading assignment and I have a question......does it matter what Bible I use? I have a copy of the King James version.



The King James Version can be a bit more difficult because we don't speak that version of English anymore.

The New King James is basically a modernized version, with the "thee's" and "thou's" replaced with contemporary language.

I use a New International Version. It's a modern (recent) translation from the best available original language texts.

The New American Standard is also supposed to be a good modern translation.

You won't find any significant differences in content or message between them. It's mainly a matter of readability.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 11:49:25 AM EDT
Originally posted by John_Wayne777:

Personally I find the New King James to be a bit clearer because it doesn't use some of that archaic 1611 sentence structure.


________________________________________________________________

Personally, I find the Torah in it's original Hebrew more clearer because it doesn't have mistranslations!


Jewish Ed
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 12:38:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:
Originally posted by John_Wayne777:

Personally I find the New King James to be a bit clearer because it doesn't use some of that archaic 1611 sentence structure.


________________________________________________________________

Personally, I find the Torah in it's original Hebrew more clearer because it doesn't have mistranslations!


Jewish Ed



Well that maybe true .....but then I have to learn Hebrew first
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 12:44:25 PM EDT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By scuba_ed:
Originally posted by John_Wayne777:

Personally I find the New King James to be a bit clearer because it doesn't use some of that archaic 1611 sentence structure.

________________________________________________________________

Personally, I find the Torah in it's original Hebrew more clearer because it doesn't have mistranslations!


Jewish Ed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Well that maybe true .....but then I have to learn Hebrew first


___________________________________________________________________

I wouldn't advocate that...took me three yrs. of study, and am still learning!

I started, however, during my conversion to Judaism with a Torah Commentary. This is your standard Torah, with English translation and commentary upon the nuances of the Hebrew text.


Best wishes,

Ed
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 12:58:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By scuba_ed:
Originally posted by John_Wayne777:

Personally I find the New King James to be a bit clearer because it doesn't use some of that archaic 1611 sentence structure.

________________________________________________________________

Personally, I find the Torah in it's original Hebrew more clearer because it doesn't have mistranslations!


Jewish Ed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Well that maybe true .....but then I have to learn Hebrew first


___________________________________________________________________

I wouldn't advocate that...took me three yrs. of study, and am still learning!

I started, however, during my conversion to Judaism with a Torah Commentary. This is your standard Torah, with English translation and commentary upon the nuances of the Hebrew text.


Best wishes,

Ed



I have a hard enough time with english
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 1:03:24 PM EDT
I have a hard enough time with english.

__________________________________________

You're a good contributer; though I doubt you have any problems with english, you are keeping this forum in the light-hearted and discussive arena it should be approached to.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top