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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 12/15/2005 7:08:07 AM EDT
If we send criminals to prison for reform, how come it is hard for society to accept one may have reformed in prison? I am not say forgive and forget, but my wife and I was discussing this enlight of the death penalty and all such. Well although I know people can change I find my opinion changes if the perp was to hurt my family members. For instance if a guy killed his wife and served 10yrs. Said he was sorry ,,,etc. My opinion of him would be a hell of a lot different if his victim was my wife. So in fact I sympathize with all the victims family but also is a life worth a life? I've told you about the guy I know in the Navy accused of murder. He was on my ship , anyhow he's been tried and the system is very much blind but anyhow the guy he supposedly killed mother got up on the stand and said she forgave the guy I knew for killing her son. Also on the news there was a father whose son was ran over by a lady in a parking lot. People tried to say it was racial but the father was like I don't hold nothing against her, Gods' will be done. I found that to be inspiring because I know as much as I believe in God that would be the furthest thing from my mind. What is your take?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:14:02 AM EDT
forgiving does not = forgetting.

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:17:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:21:33 AM EDT
They are not being sent away to reform school. They are being warehoused to keep them from doing more harm to society. There's a big difference.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:22:43 AM EDT
If we send criminals to prison for reform...

I don't think anybody really believes that. They're put in prison as punishment and/or to keep them where they can't do it again.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:28:51 AM EDT
We send people to prison for punishment NOT reform.

Reform is not something you can force on someone.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:34:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bvmjethead:
We send people to prison for punishment NOT reform.




I was going to say this as well. +1
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:34:33 AM EDT
Prison reform:


Anyone with >20 years remaining on their sentances => immediate execution

Anyone with <20 years remaining => revocation of cable TV, start of labor details (chain gangs even).
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:38:19 AM EDT
From what I gather is that there is so much violence and rape and so on in prison that even if someone would like to reform, after ten years one would come out pretty much disturbed.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:41:02 AM EDT
Well I agree that it is for punishment but what are our (society's ) expectations? Repeat offenders, well I guess they didn't learn the first time around. When my youngest son stole something and I sat and talked with him as to where that type of behavior would take him, I also told him how in some countries his hand would be cut off. That more then anything really made him think of his behavior.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:41:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 7:43:17 AM EDT by bvmjethead]
nevermind

­


Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:42:53 AM EDT
+1BillSouth
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:44:37 AM EDT
Would you feel any different if one of your kids, or siblings even went to prison?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:44:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 8:42:41 AM EDT by HardShell]
Reformation (better, rehabilitation) is at the bottom of the list of incarceration goals. Criminals are incarcerated for DETERRANCE, PUNISHMENT, SAFETY, and - finally - REHABILITATION.

For DETERRENCE to be effective, the punishment has to be swift, sure, and sufficient to the crime committed - so you can throw that one out the window.

Plea bargaining (for high conviction rates) and sentencing and parole systems (becuase of overcrowding, due largely to lack of funding for infrastructure and personnel) ensure that most inmates do not serve long enough to effectively PUNISH them or keep us SAFE from them.

REHABILITATION is rare - consider recidivism rates.

Yes, the system is broken...
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:47:46 AM EDT
deterrance?

jail is just a change of scenery for some guys.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:49:41 AM EDT
to: BVMJETHEAD*
DID you get my IM?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:52:14 AM EDT
You can forgive someone all you want, that does not mitigate the crime they did.
Our country is based on a system of laws. Forgiveness by the crime victim does not in any way have anything to do with the punishment they are due.
When Jesus was hanging on the cross, he said to the other condemned man - Today you will meet me in paradise. (Or words to that effect.) Jesus, by saying that, forgave the man of his sins, but did not stop his execution, or bring him down from the cross he was nailed to. Once again, forgiveness does not do away with society's penalties.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:57:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DontShootMyDog:
deterrance?

jail is just a change of scenery for some guys.



I agree with this thinking. Prison/jail is supposed to be this utterly horrible place you get sent if you screw up bad. The conditions are supposed to be harsh, both to be a deterrent to those not in trouble, and to serve as a reminder to those that have served their time and get a new start on life.

Prison is no longer either of the above. It is 3 hots and a cot, complete with tv and telephone.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:03:37 AM EDT
lock up the repeat offenders forever. First time non violent reprocussions currently in law ARE STUPID and ASININE
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:17:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 8:18:41 AM EDT by crazyquik]

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:

Prison/jail is supposed to be this utterly horrible place you get sent if you screw up bad. The conditions are supposed to be harsh, both to be a deterrent to those not in trouble, and to serve as a reminder to those that have served their time and get a new start on life.

Prison is no longer either of the above. It is 3 hots and a cot, complete with tv and telephone.



Its harsh, but in the wrong ways. Rape, disease, enviroment, etc.

More emphasis should be put on reform. They should learn skills they can use on the outside. Don't some prisoners in Texas make leather goods and sterling silver belt buckles? Teach them something they can use, and keep them occupied.

Of course, if you still want to be a tough ass then you can go outside and dig drainage ditches and shovel manure.

They should be run like farms (plantations?) where they are self sufficient.

FWIW women's prisons don't have a lot of the problems men's do. If you call one of the state tourist info lines in NC, there is a good chance the operator you talk to about tourism in NC is a female inmate. They also have a beauty school where they learn to cut hair. Tools are checked out and then back in at the end of each lesson.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:22:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
... They should be run like farms (plantations?) where they are self sufficient...



They were (at least here in the South) for years...
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:23:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DnPRK:
They are not being sent away to reform school. They are being warehoused to keep them from doing more harm to society. There's a big difference.


+1...anyone who has ANY contact with the criminal justice system knows we're just warehousing these guys. the only guys who are reformed are those who were inclined to do so BEFORE they went in, the one-timers like the guy who kills his wife in a fit of jealous rage. for the rest, prison is finishing school or a place to hang with their buds.

it really is broke.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:27:49 AM EDT
If someone has it in them to commit heinous crimes like murder, rape, child molestation... then odds are they are never going to be totally reformed. Whatever was in them that made them do it the first time will always be there regardless of how well they suppress it.

Most of the time these people know it's wrong, know the punishment, and do it anyway.

In my idea of a perfect world if they fit this description they shoudl be executed right after the trial.

In those rare cases of bizarre circumstances and/or self defense things would be looked at in a different light. I'm talking about case where the intent was obvious and more than likely preplanned.

Harder penalties and acting on them would be a MAJOR deterrent. Those that still commit the crime obviously see no value in human life, their own or others so they have no place in this society.
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