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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/20/2006 1:14:50 PM EDT
I'm getting married in a few weeks and we want to do a prenup. How official do we need to make it? I was thinking just writing exactally what we want in a word file, hitting print, and signing it and getting it notarized. Is that sufficient? If not, what else needs to be done?

What key points need to be hit?

-money
-joint assets (house, cars, ect)
-pets
-don't want kids, should we cover the "IF"?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:17:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 1:18:38 PM EDT by twonami]
I would say ask Johnny Carson but he's dead.
Prenups can get really complicated if the divorce gets ugly. Get a lawyer and think about it.
IMHO if you think you need a prenup rethink the marriage.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:21:39 PM EDT
Both parties need to be represented by their own attorneys for it to held up in court. My prenup is about 6 pages long.

You need to spend the $500-700 dollars on an attorney.

Think of it as marriage insurance.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:22:59 PM EDT
You need a lawyer.

A prenup is relatively easy to invalidate for a variety of reasons. I also suggest a postnup immediately thereafter. When called upon to do so, a lawyer will almost always argue (perhaps successfully, perhaps not) that the prenup is invalid because one party felt pressured to sign or call off the imminent, elaborate and expensive wedding plans and that as a result, the agreement was not entered into freely and voluntarily. This argument disappears with the execution of a postnup.

One more time: get a lawyer or your prenup may end up being a liability.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:25:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:25:53 PM EDT
During ugly divorces, it's not uncommon for guys to spend tens of thousands of dollars defending their pre-nups and losing. If you don't do it correctly now, it won't hold up later. Each of you needs a seperate lawyer, it must seem fair, and it cannot be done shortly before the wedding or under any circumstances that smell like duress.

Tough to swallow the legal expenses and even tougher to have lawyers already involved in your relationship, but do it.

Better yet, consider just living together. Marriage is an archaic institution that should fade away. It's become a profit industry for lawyers and another excuse for government intrusion in your life. Women want the security of it, though - it's a nice house and a retirement plan for them whether it lasts or not. They get the benefits, you get the responsibilities.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:25:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
....IMHO if you think you need a prenup rethink the marriage.



+1

Not married and already showing signs of distrust and lack of committment.

I read somewhere that marriages without prenups generally have a better chance of lasting compared to those with them. Study was age/$$ controlled.


Good luck, you'll need it.



Just curious, are you shacking up now? That is a risk factor for divorce as well.


Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:28:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:

IMHO if you think you need a prenup rethink the marriage.



AMEN!

The only reason I am thinking of doing a prenup the next time I get married is to protect my CHILDREN from whatever may happen.

If you're not in that situation, then you probably shouldn't be marrying this person.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:28:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
If you have enough assets that warrants a pre-nup then you two can afford a lawyer.




We dont have any assets at the momment (both graduating college in 2 months) but would like to have some down the line.

As for the other side feeling pressured: we're not having an elaborate wedding, and both want to do the prenup.

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:29:54 PM EDT
Pre nups are Marriage insureance.

Treat them as such.

Spend money.

Pay for your (pre)wife's attorney too.

Pre nups are only SO much of a plan.

I guess it depends on how much you have to risk.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:30:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:

Originally Posted By twonami:
....IMHO if you think you need a prenup rethink the marriage.



+1

Not married and already showing signs of distrust and lack of committment.

I read somewhere that marriages without prenups generally have a better chance of lasting compared to those with them. Study was age/$$ controlled.


Good luck, you'll need it.



Just curious, are you shacking up now? That is a risk factor for divorce as well.




damned palimony(sp)
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:31:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
During ugly divorces, it's not uncommon for guys to spend tens of thousands of dollars defending their pre-nups and losing. If you don't do it correctly now, it won't hold up later. Each of you needs a seperate lawyer, it must seem fair, and it cannot be done shortly before the wedding or under any circumstances that smell like duress.

Tough to swallow the legal expenses and even tougher to have lawyers already involved in your relationship, but do it.

Better yet, consider just living together. Marriage is an archaic institution that should fade away. It's become a profit industry for lawyers and another excuse for government intrusion in your life. Women want the security of it, though - it's a nice house and a retirement plan for them whether it lasts or not. They get the benefits, you get the responsibilities.



Damn dude.

That just chilled me right to the bone.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:32:55 PM EDT
we've been together all through college. We've lived together this year and all is very well.

We dont feel the need for a prenup, but have been told by everyone that it's the thing to do. Don't take it as a warning sign that anything is amis.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:39:03 PM EDT
Having a prenup does not mean you don't trust your future spouse it's about protecting what you own from her greedy lawyers.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:39:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
we've been together all through college. We've lived together this year and all is very well.

We dont feel the need for a prenup, but have been told by everyone that it's the thing to do. Don't take it as a warning sign that anything is amis.



Sounds like you are really young. Do you have many assests to protect?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:42:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 1:43:43 PM EDT by Rodent]

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
we've been together all through college. We've lived together this year and all is very well.




So what is it you think you're going to gain by marrying her? More sex?


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:43:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 1:43:55 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Having a prenup does not mean you don't trust your future spouse it's about protecting what you own from her greedy lawyers.




Which is only relevant if you do not believe that you can trust her (or yourself) to remain in the relationship.

Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:44:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
we've been together all through college. We've lived together this year and all is very well.




So what is it you think you're going to gain by marrying her? More sex?


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!



Ain't that the truth. I've been telling the Mrs that I going to put her back to GF status.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:44:57 PM EDT
Evererything down to the Kitchen Aid mixer!
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:49:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 1:50:41 PM EDT by Rodent]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Having a prenup does not mean you don't trust your future spouse it's about protecting what you own from her greedy lawyers.




Which is only relevant if you do not believe that you can trust her (or yourself) to remain in the relationship.



Married couples are no more likely to stay together than couples living together. The difference is that if you're married, people you've never met before are going to tell you what to do with your house, pension, savings, salary, kids, cars, guns and dog. Hint: YOU aren't likely to get a lot of the lovely parting gifts.

Seriously Hop_N_Pop, don't even think about marriage until you're thirty. Lots of things are going to change by then.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:50:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 1:50:58 PM EDT by MrsGloftoe]
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:54:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
I'm getting married in a few weeks and we want to do a prenup. How official do we need to make it? I was thinking just writing exactally what we want in a word file, hitting print, and signing it and getting it notarized. Is that sufficient? If not, what else needs to be done?

What key points need to be hit?

-money
-joint assets (house, cars, ect)
-pets
-don't want kids, should we cover the "IF"?



If you are not having kids why worry about it ? They are the biggest source of aggravation IF you were to get divorced [ and probably a big cause of most divorces, truth be known ]. ONE OF YOU GET FIXED NOW !!!! I am NOT joking. Be 28 years of mostly happy marriage in a little over a month from now. No kids, just dogs.

If you have been giving each other money real freely with no strings attached the past few years you are probably ok. Hell, I let my wife to be take my GTO to school for a quarter 300 miles away after I had only known her off and on for about 8 months, that's commitment .

Of course, I did marry a special lady.

rj
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:55:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 1:57:10 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By Rodent:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Having a prenup does not mean you don't trust your future spouse it's about protecting what you own from her greedy lawyers.




Which is only relevant if you do not believe that you can trust her (or yourself) to remain in the relationship.



Married couples are no more likely to stay together than couples living together. The difference is that if you're married, people you've never met before are going to tell you what to do with your house, pension, savings, salary, kids, cars, guns and dog. Hint: YOU aren't likely to get a lot of the lovely parting gifts.

Seriously Hop_N_Pop, don't even think about marriage until you're thirty. Lots of things are going to change by then.




I'm not disputing that - I'm making an anal logical point that it IS fundamentally about trust. If both parties trusted one another 100% there would be no reason for a prenup. Trust is about uncertainty about future behavior in situations where you are vulnerable or there is risk involved.

I'm just saying that by defintion, it means that the parties do NOT completely trust one another. If both parties are fine with that, everything is cool.



Technically, I guess the other component to the "trust" is faith. After all, my wife could conceivably develop a brain tumor that would make her an insane dangerous lunatic, and then perhaps I'd be forced to divorce her or something. You never know, and thus there is additional uncertainty, even beyond a lack of complete trust about all future action by the other party.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:56:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Having a prenup does not mean you don't trust your future spouse it's about protecting what you own from her greedy lawyers.




Which is only relevant if you do not believe that you can trust her (or yourself) to remain in the relationship.



Married couples are no more likely to stay together than couples living together. The difference is that if you're married, people you've never met before are going to tell you what to do with your house, pension, savings, salary, kids, cars, guns and dog. Hint: YOU aren't likely to get a lot of the lovely parting gifts.

Seriously Hop_N_Pop, don't even think about marriage until you're thirty. Lots of things are going to change by then.



Sure....Honestly, the fairytail is going to last forever.

There's a reason marriages don't last anymore;

Both sides refuse to put up with BS!
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:00:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Having a prenup does not mean you don't trust your future spouse it's about protecting what you own from her greedy lawyers.




Which is only relevant if you do not believe that you can trust her (or yourself) to remain in the relationship.

Just my opinion.



The person you trust now might not be the same person flaking out in a few years.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:04:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Having a prenup does not mean you don't trust your future spouse it's about protecting what you own from her greedy lawyers.




Which is only relevant if you do not believe that you can trust her (or yourself) to remain in the relationship.

Just my opinion.



I agree to a very, very, very, vary small degree. Stats are 50%+ of first marriages fail and 60%+ of second marriages fail. Been major burned once, my fault. Won't happen a second time.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:07:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

I'm not disputing that - I'm making an anal logical point that it IS fundamentally about trust. If both parties trusted one another 100% there would be no reason for a prenup. Trust is about uncertainty about future behavior in situations where you are vulnerable or there is risk involved.

I'm just saying that by defintion, it means that the parties do NOT completely trust one another. If both parties are fine with that, everything is cool.



Technically, I guess the other component to the "trust" is faith. After all, my wife could conceivably develop a brain tumor that would make her an insane dangerous lunatic, and then perhaps I'd be forced to divorce her or something. You never know, and thus there is additional uncertainty, even beyond a lack of complete trust about all future action by the other party.



Nobody gets married expecting a divorce. But the odds are not good. (Somebody once described marriage as "the triumph of hope over experience".)

A lot of engagements fall apart once the lawyers get involved in negotiating the pre-nup. Which is probably a good thing in the long run.

My girlfriend and I are together because we WANT to be, not "for the kids", or for fear of financial ruin. I can't say that about most of my married friends. Besides, after my first marriage, I have dreams about lawyers rubbing their hands together like flies on shit.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:07:53 PM EDT
People change. You both will change. Women have a strong biological drive to have children. Why marry? Have you given her a diamond? Has she given you one of equal value?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:08:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
we've been together all through college. We've lived together this year and all is very well.

We dont feel the need for a prenup, but have been told by everyone that it's the thing to do. Don't take it as a warning sign that anything is amis.



Your everyone is a idiot. Prenups are a plan for failure. Look everything that was your before the marriage remains yours, everything you gain after marriage is joint property.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:11:54 PM EDT
Hop_N_Pop, I have a thought. Go sit in the back of a divorce court and spend an afternoon watching what people do to each other not long after taking those sacred vows. Then if you still want to get married right out of college, at least you'll have a broadened perspective.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:13:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
Hop_N_Pop, I have a thought. Go sit in the back of a divorce court and spend an afternoon watching what people do to each other not long after taking those sacred vows. Then if you still want to get married right out of college, at least you'll have a broadened perspective.



Also, go to the court clerk and get the packet you need to fill out for a divorce. Then imagine going through that once you have assets.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:13:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 2:29:21 PM EDT by Bama-Shooter]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I'm not disputing that - I'm making an anal logical point that it IS fundamentally about trust. If both parties trusted one another 100% there would be no reason for a prenup. Trust is about uncertainty about future behavior in situations where you are vulnerable or there is risk involved.

I'm just saying that by defintion, it means that the parties do NOT completely trust one another. If both parties are fine with that, everything is cool.



Technically, I guess the other component to the "trust" is faith. After all, my wife could conceivably develop a brain tumor that would make her an insane dangerous lunatic, and then perhaps I'd be forced to divorce her or something. You never know, and thus there is additional uncertainty, even beyond a lack of complete trust about all future action by the other party.



Trust has very little to do with it once the lawyers get involved. It's about survival. I lost 3/4 of my gun collection to pay lawyer fees, lost my Vette, my Harley, $70,000 equity in my house (my half) and about $20,000 in savings to that wonderful girl I met who turned into a complete bitch. While I made 75% of the money over the 12 years she got 80% of the property.

ETA: Oh and she got the antique furniture MY grandmother gave to me years before we got married.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:14:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 2:16:02 PM EDT by Rodent]

Originally Posted By jcncc:
Your everyone is a idiot. Prenups are a plan for failure. Look everything that was your before the marriage remains yours, everything you gain after marriage is joint property.



Is English your first language?

It's important to sound intelligent when you're calling other people "idiot".



ETA and no, everthing that was yours before the marriage emphatically does NOT remain yours.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:15:07 PM EDT
A prenuptuial agreement shouldn't protect only one party of the marriage, it should protect both.

It's a way of you both acknowledging that shit happens and when folks get divoriced it gets nasty. And that in the event that this, divorice, ever happens you want to decide how things are going to be split when you are both level headed. To me thats love.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:17:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jcncc:

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
we've been together all through college. We've lived together this year and all is very well.

We dont feel the need for a prenup, but have been told by everyone that it's the thing to do. Don't take it as a warning sign that anything is amis.



Your everyone is a idiot. Prenups are a plan for failure. Look everything that was your before the marriage remains yours, everything you gain after marriage is joint property.




Unless what ever you had before the marriage was partially funded by marital assets.

Lets say you have a nice 1965 GT mustang before you get married, you are married and rebuild the motor and put a rebuilt tranny in it. You split up and she can claim the car. You put marital assets into the car so she has a claim to it.

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:25:36 PM EDT
Let me give you another example. A former co-worker of mine. Married young got a divorce 10 years later, no kids everything went fine. Re-married about 15 years later. We tried to get him to get a prenup, he did not want to upset his new bride and said no.

This guy owned a $300,000 home of which he had a mortgage of about $100,00. Owned a Jag and a Porshe, about $200,000 in stocks etc.

The month after they got married she quit her job because it was just to stressful. About a year later she got pregnant. Never worked again. After 5 years she started screwing some guy in some local acting group. She joined the acting group to keep herself busy while he worked.

No here comes the divorce. She got 60% of ALL the assets, has to pay her alimony for the next 10 years plus child support.

A simple $500 to a lawyer for a prenup would have saved him $300,000.

Yep, it's all about trust.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:17:50 PM EDT
I've gotta agree with Bama here.... it is about trust, and i trust my wife to be whole heartedly, BUT I also agree that it is about protection from greedy lawyers.

As for WHY we're getting married: there are several reasons, and I'd appreciate everyone checking the "don't do it, run away" cynicism at the door.

I'd like HONEST ideas on how to handle the pre nup idea.

We've always been a very mutual couple. We have seperate bank accounts, and it will stay that way. We will both have incomes, and will both contribute to what we own. Basically the way we want it to work is that the primary investor in assets (cars, houses, ect) retains the property, and pays the minority for their percentage. I see that as pretty foolproof protection for MY toys (guns electronics, ect).

Like I said, we have no desire for kids, so we wont have that stress in the relationship, and wont have the major point of contention if the relationship were to fail.

And yes, I plan to get fixed right after graduation.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:27:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
... I'd appreciate everyone checking the "don't do it, run away" cynicism at the door.



If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

Best wishes for you -
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:35:35 PM EDT
If you are going in with a large amount of assets you want to protect...then by all means, I would have if I had been in that situation.

As it stands, most new mariages both parties are starting out with realatively little, and what they end up with later comes from combined work efforts.

For those saying, "If you are thinking you need a prenup - don't get married." I think that is bad advice.

Almost no one goes into a marriage thinking they are getting divorced. But the divorce rate is what, 50%???

Like some others said, it is marriage insurance, that is a good way to look at it.

One other thing, if a woman is unwilling to sign a prenup, you better think twice about her. Because if she is unwilling that is basically saying, "Screw you buddy, when we get divorced, I'm getting half your stuff, tough shit."

Think about it, if she is refusing to sign that document, she admitting that she does not think the relationship will last, and she wants your ass when the time comes.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:39:59 PM EDT
She's as into it as I am....

She could very well end up making more money than I do, and doesnt want ME comming after HER.

What I'm really looking at is what should be on the document, and how "official" does it need to me?

As I said, I would like to sit down with her, come up with an agreement that we are both 100% comfortable with, sign it, notarize it, stick it in the document safe, and laugh at it on our 50th anniversary.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:50:24 PM EDT
A prenup is preparing your divorce documents before you get married. If this is necessary, you should not get married.

My former firm wanted me to do a postnup with my wife before making me a partner. I would not do it and ended up leaving to go out on my own. Six years later I never looked back.

S.O.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:54:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 4:57:02 PM EDT by fla556guy]
You need an attorney. Having one set up a prenup shouldn't cost you that much, and if you don't have one it might cost you much more than the attorney fees.

You need to cover:

1. Your current and future money, retirement, pension, 401k, assets, alimony (in the case of divorce.....I would always put down that she would not be entitled to alimony in any case, form).
2. Whatever else you feel is important...I.E.: kids, pets,
3. What defines cheating, and what recourse do you intend to take.

Definatly have an attorney that is experienced with pre-nups.

READ the paper you are about to sign...before you sign it. Trust isn't an issue here, it's a legal, binding document. Be sure your pre-nup reflects what you feel is agreeable.

One thought. You might want to put in the pre-nup something to the effect: In the case of divorce, no matter the reason, there shal be no alimony, (your wife) is not entitled to any of my pension, retirement, paycheck, 401k, the real property shal be sold and the profit, after taxes, etc shal be split 50/50, etc. Just make sure that you protect your butt, no matter what the reason for the divorce is.

Don't forget to state that you will not pay alimony, etc in the case of any divorce, period.

Also, I don't believe that having a pre/post nup is a sign of not trusting your future/current spouse. It's protection in the case of a large change in the relationship/spouses attitude towards you. If for some reason you get into divorce mode, a partiner can turn from a loving affectionate giving person into a spiteful, greedy, insensative prick. A pre/post nup is protection from that little green monster. That's all.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:37:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Having a prenup does not mean you don't trust your future spouse it's about protecting what you own from her greedy lawyers.




Which is only relevant if you do not believe that you can trust her (or yourself) to remain in the relationship.

Just my opinion.



I agree. The best insurance for your marriage is to read Dr Laura's book 10 stupid things men do to screw up their lives. It will educate you on what you might believe as triffle that through your love/lust have decided to ignore and teach you why you desire these things and how to achieve what you need healthy and make good decisions.

Patty
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:42:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:


Like I said, we have no desire for kids, so we wont have that stress in the relationship, and wont have the major point of contention if the relationship were to fail.




Then there is almost no reason for you to get married.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:47:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Then there is almost no reason for you to get married.



Sure there is: Money

I get more salary if we are married (housing allowance). On top of that she is entitled to medical and dental benefits. On top of that the AF pays for her to move with me when I PCS.

I'm not saying the money is the primary motivator, but it is a major consideration.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:50:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Then there is almost no reason for you to get married.



Sure there is: Money

I get more salary if we are married (housing allowance). On top of that she is entitled to medical and dental benefits. On top of that the AF pays for her to move with me when I PCS.

I'm not saying the money is the primary motivator, but it is a major consideration.



Then that's even worse.

Sorry, if you're factoring in financial considerations like that into your marriage, then you should think again.

Especially in light of the countless stories I've read on here of military marriages disintegrating during a deployment.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:54:42 PM EDT
I have to disagree with pretty much everyone here and thinking that you getting a prenup is a good thing. There is a lot of negativity around prenups that really doesn't need to be there. Getting a prenupp is a very responsible thing to do. It has nothing to do with lack of trust IMHO, it has more to do that sometimes things do go wrong that you may not forsee, and a prenup will make the end a little less painful.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:55:58 PM EDT
We've had a few test runs with deployment with me being gone for a month or two at a time. She handled it just fine.

And i know it sounds like we might be going for the wrong reasons, but remember, i said money was a consideration, not the reason for marriage.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:12:24 PM EDT
My best friend is going through a divorce right now. They were gaagaa at first, then they got married, had a kid. Last 4-5 years have been difficult. He really wishes he had a prenup now... she wouldn't have one so he demurred.

Prenups can also spell out the duties DURING the marriage: split of expenses, etc. But don't expect it to be bullet proof... a good lawyer can shoot holes in most anything. Heck, they've been doing it to the Constitution for 200+ years now!
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