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Posted: 8/14/2005 10:51:20 PM EDT
http://safety.blr.com/blr_shared/polls/
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:00:03 PM EDT
HIT !


LB
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:04:15 PM EDT
Hit!!
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:07:10 PM EDT
I not only hit it, I smacked the s&#@ out of it!
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:12:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 11:12:56 PM EDT by m-dc]
70% say no they shouldnt. Hummm, firestorm!
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:15:19 PM EDT
Hit-we are up to 29 percent.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:18:28 PM EDT
70%no
29%yes
1% unsure
over 1000 votes cast.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:19:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By copenhagen:
Hit-we are up to 29 percent.


You voted wrong, or did you?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:23:21 PM EDT
If you leave the page, clear your cookies, cache and history you can get a bunch of votes in by selecting your answer and continue clicking vote fast enough to where the results page doesnt have a chance to load. :)
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:40:17 PM EDT
Should employers be allowed to bar workers from storing guns in cars on employee parking lots?


No.
74%
Yes.
25%
Not sure.
1%



Total Votes: 2381


Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:45:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:
Should employers be allowed to bar workers from storing guns in cars on employee parking lots?


No.
74%
Yes.
25%
Not sure.
1%



Total Votes: 2381





I'm responsible for a good 300 of those :)
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:52:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:
Should employers be allowed to bar workers from storing guns in cars on employee parking lots?


No.
74%
Yes.
25%
Not sure.
1%



Total Votes: 2381





I brought it up to 2440
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:49:51 AM EDT
Hit

Should employers be allowed to bar workers from storing guns in cars on employee parking lots?
No.
75%
Yes.
24%
Not sure.
1%
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:52:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 12:53:31 AM EDT by chrome1]
Hit , FWIW

If it gets too lopsided they will say it was skewed
by internet gun nuts
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:54:13 AM EDT
Done
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:44:13 AM EDT
Just got it, 76% say no.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:48:52 AM EDT
I say yes, it's private property. Goverment should have no say in what some one does with their property. Anti Gun or not, it's still the companys property they have every right to say who can and who cant bring a gun on to the property.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:52:48 AM EDT
I work at an airport so....I'm can't either way. But for anyone else, it's company property.

They can say "Only bright pink cars allowed". And only bright pink cars will be able to part there.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:53:31 AM EDT
Nope.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:55:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:
I say yes, it's private property. Goverment should have no say in what some one does with their property. Anti Gun or not, it's still the companys property they have every right to say who can and who cant bring a gun on to the property.



And the vehicle is my property. The company has no right to tell me what I can and cannot have in it. Outside the vehicle is a different matter.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:00:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dracster:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
I say yes, it's private property. Goverment should have no say in what some one does with their property. Anti Gun or not, it's still the companys property they have every right to say who can and who cant bring a gun on to the property.



And the vehicle is my property. The company has no right to tell me what I can and cannot have in it. Outside the vehicle is a different matter.


Your car is on their property, they have every right to refuse to allow you to park it in their parking lot... If some one does not like the policy fof the company they work for than they should simply quit or simply deal with it.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:02:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 10:34:34 AM EDT by txgp17]
Should employers be allowed to bar workers from storing guns in cars on employee parking lots?
No. 77%
Yes. 22%
Not sure. 1%
Total Votes: 2704


No. 78%
Yes. 21%
Not sure. 1%
Total Votes: 2899

I voted again from another computer, I might vote a 3rd time from work when I get back there next week.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:04:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dracster:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
I say yes, it's private property. Goverment should have no say in what some one does with their property. Anti Gun or not, it's still the companys property they have every right to say who can and who cant bring a gun on to the property.



And the vehicle is my property. The company has no right to tell me what I can and cannot have in it. Outside the vehicle is a different matter.



You, as an employee, have a choice not to park on company property.

And, you car is not property in the sense that land is property. You cannot drive your car onto another person's/company's property and still claim that, as long as you remain in the car, you're on your own property.

I don't like the policy, either. But, hey, I don't like a lot of things.
The worst thing that can happen is that the gubmint exercise more control over private property. Personally, I feel that (almost) any restriction a property owner places on the use of his property should be legal and supported by all those who truely believe in personal property rights.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:11:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 10:07:11 AM EDT by mousehunter]
+1 for private property. +2 for safty.

I have issues with storing guns in cars in general. How many of you have an even remotely secure car safe? That assuming your whole car is not just stolen. A bar parking lot is a pretty high theft area, once your unsecured gun is stolen from your car and used in a crime - how much do you want to bet their will be a civil lawsuite.

The gun and you are safer if it is concealed on your person.

Ok, the following based on an incorrect assumption of the question. Personally I think the bar should provide secure lockers for their empoloyee's personal effects at work - but understand the bar has a lot of liablity for that as well (mostly drug dealing liability).

That said, I still do not like leaving guns unattended in a vehicle. I think the company should allow it, but doint think indiduals should do it. Finnally still rest on the fact that it is their property and should be allowed to set their own rules on it.

When I thought we were talking about Bar's, at liest I understood why employees would not be allowed to carry at work, hell - if your work does not allow you to carry, perhaps they are not that concerned with your safty and you should look elsewhere for employement.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:20:50 AM EDT
hit! You cannot do things on private property that violates other people's constitutional rights.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:24:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
hit! You cannot do things on private property that violates other people's constitutional rights.



If that's the case, then they can't have "no carry" policies either. Which they do. Frequently.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:29:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
hit! You cannot do things on private property that violates other people's constitutional rights.





Where the fuck did you get that logic from?

So by that rational, the McDonalds you work at can't keep you from carrying a gun onto their property just as you can't keep me from conducting a political speech on your property.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:32:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 6:33:07 AM EDT by SJSAMPLE]
I can't think of a single constitutional right that I would support over another person's right to control their own property. None. That includes, the First, Second or any other ammendment.
First: You can't protest on my property. You start mouthing off, you leave.
Second: If I tell you to leave your gun at the door, you leave it at the door.

Use the first two as your cue for the rest of them.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:32:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:37:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mousehunter:
+1 for private property. +2 for safty.

I have issues with storing guns in cars in general. How many of you have an even remotely secure car safe? That assuming your whole car is not just stolen. A bar parking lot is a pretty high theft area, once your unsecured gun is stolen from your car and used in a crime - how much do you want to bet their will be a civil lawsuite.

The gun and you are safer if it is concealed on your person.

Personally I think the bar should provide secure lockers for their empoloyee's personal effects at work - but understand the bar has a lot of liablity for that as well (mostly drug dealing liability).




They mean "bar" as in ban, not bar as in place to go drinking
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:39:05 AM EDT
My current place of work specifically allows guns in locked cars in the lot.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:16:26 AM EDT
What is in my personally owned vehicle, is my business and none of yours. Period. It may be parked in YOUR parking lot, but you have no say in what music CD's I have in it, what books I may have stored in it or anything else. Just as you have no business knowing what color underwear I have on that day. None of your freaking business at all.

You want to provide me company paid vehicle and the gas to drive it - then you get to know what I have inside it.

How would it be if your female HR manager insisted that by company policy, all male employees needed to be strip searched by her and her staff, to make sure you didn't have any contraband or stolen company assets on you? Fair? What would be the difference other than your modesty?

If the parking lot is open to the public, you don't get to dictate what comes on your property. Secure the area, put up guard shacks and search every vehicle - then you can enforce your policy, maybe. Just like putting a "no guns" sign up. You really can't enforce it without detectors and screening. It will cost you more than just a "moral" stand.

I have worked for companies with this policy. I still had my defensive firearm in my own vehicle. Heck, I carried on property that forbade firearms unless they had screening. I was ready to kiss the job off if needed. It's a matter of priorities.

I say that you don't get to tell me what I can have in my car even if it's in your parking lot. Just as I can't tell you what you can have in your car in my drive way. I can stop you from bring something in past my doors, as any company can. Parking lots are not fair game.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:22:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:27:41 AM EDT
Loosing bad 78% to 21%
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:28:56 AM EDT
Only ban those who are nuts.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:24:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Yes Rtech if they ban something in your car that implies the right to search your car.

The way companies do this without fences and guards is to have employees sign a policy statement to the effect. Once accused or even random search and you refuse, then you are subject to being fired with no recourse.

Sucks huh?

I even had an HR director try to enforce this, yes both a search and firing, to, WHOOPS, find out the company didn't own the parking lot but was actually city property. Employee got a nice settlement.

What was sad was that once was a company that had group hunting trips and even trap shoots. We use to bring our new guns to work to show them off.

Did the policy accomplish anything? No, not at all for there were no gun related crimes before the policy and none after.

Glad I don't work there anymore.

Tj




TJ,

I understand the implications and all. I've dealt with companies that tried to enforce a "ban policy" when they didn't actually own a parking lot, but it was a shared lot with other businesses.

I also did a face off with new Boeing security guards when one implied he might want to search my car. I stood my ground, told them that they would need a director right now or a search warrant to search or they could break into it. If they chose the last option, I would safeguard my personal property within the limits of the law and I would be filing individual civil suits against all involved, as well as the company and it's representitives. They backed down. It was two dufus cop wannabees. They were later terminated for something they did. I was ready to kiss the job off right then. I later left Boeing because I hated my boss and didn't really like the job that much. It was a cool place, I didn't like the conditions.

I regularly carried my G27 while working at the Tempe HQ for Honeywell, former Allied Signal. They had the same ploicy and even used Wackenhutt protective forces (see Area 51 guard force). Again, I was ready to walk within a minute's notice.

So, you can flaunt the policy - just be ready to deal with the fallout. Sorry, but I feel my personal privacy rights trumph your "moral" issue rights and your "no gun" policy is not going to stop bullets from hitting me if your company becomes a target for some wack-job. Your sign is not going to stop "Harold, the red stapler guy" from bring in his SKS and off'ing his entire section because of some TPS report policy change (see Jeep plant shooting in Toledo several months ago). Did you get the memo? [/office space]
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:47:42 AM EDT
Yes.

This isn't a 2nd Amendment issue, this is a property rights issue. I utterly despise the government telling me what I can and can't do with my stuff.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:53:33 AM EDT
No. 78%
Yes. 21%
Not sure. 1%


Total Votes: 2880
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:57:29 AM EDT
Hit from home and work.l
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:01:48 AM EDT
I hit it...looking good!

Should employers be allowed to bar workers from storing guns in cars on employee parking lots?

No. 78%
Yes. 21%
Not sure. 1%


Total Votes: 2885

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:19:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
hit! You cannot do things on private property that violates other people's constitutional rights.



If that's the case, then they can't have "no carry" policies either. Which they do. Frequently.

I ignore those too!
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:21:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By recoiljunky:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
hit! You cannot do things on private property that violates other people's constitutional rights.





Where the fuck did you get that logic from?

So by that rational, the McDonalds you work at can't keep you from carrying a gun onto their property just as you can't keep me from conducting a political speech on your property.

By your rational you can deprive anyone who ventures onto your property of life and liberty?
There is no "right" answer, either way you will be sacrificing one right for another. In this case I will err on the side of the lesser evil. Denying me the fundamental right of self-preservation is a greater evil than telling some employer he can't restrict his workers 2nd ammendment rights.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:37:41 AM EDT
Yes, you have the right to carry a firearm, but you don't have the right to park in the company lot, or even to work at that company at all. Parking in the company lot is a privilege, to which the company may attach restrictions, such as banning firearms from your vehicle while it is in the company lot. If you don't like the restrictions, you are free to park somewhere else.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:39:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 10:45:20 AM EDT by senorFrog]
Did you all get your post cards from the NRA to send into these foru companies? Mine will be going in the AM.

I'm not so sure on all the private property arguments...I mean could the company say, hey 't private property...no blacks need apply...cleary a violation of civil rights. I mean that can't pick and choose what RIGHTS you have. YOU HAVE INALIENABLE RIGHTS! That means they can't be taken away.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 11:29:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By senorFrog:
Did you all get your post cards from the NRA to send into these foru companies? Mine will be going in the AM.

I'm not so sure on all the private property arguments...I mean could the company say, hey 't private property...no blacks need apply...cleary a violation of civil rights. I mean that can't pick and choose what RIGHTS you have. YOU HAVE INALIENABLE RIGHTS! That means they can't be taken away.



Your rights aren't being violated. You don't have to park in their parking lot. You don't have to work their. It is your choice.

Just goes to show how many people will happily favor more government invovlement in day to day affairs if it allows them to push their agenda.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:12:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By recoiljunky:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
hit! You cannot do things on private property that violates other people's constitutional rights.





Where the fuck did you get that logic from?

So by that rational, the McDonalds you work at can't keep you from carrying a gun onto their property just as you can't keep me from conducting a political speech on your property.



Ah, but that shows the problem. This discussion would not exist if the issue were speech or serving someone of a different race. The only reason the property rights are ok is that it is about guns. If it were political speeches, there would be federal marshals there.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:14:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By recoiljunky:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
hit! You cannot do things on private property that violates other people's constitutional rights.





Where the fuck did you get that logic from?

So by that rational, the McDonalds you work at can't keep you from carrying a gun onto their property just as you can't keep me from conducting a political speech on your property.

By your rational you can deprive anyone who ventures onto your property of life and liberty?
There is no "right" answer, either way you will be sacrificing one right for another. In this case I will err on the side of the lesser evil. Denying me the fundamental right of self-preservation is a greater evil than telling some employer he can't restrict his workers 2nd ammendment rights.



I need your address so that I can orginize a gay pride demonstration on your yard.

Hey, freedom of speech is pretty important too ya know. They identified that right before they identified the right to bear arms.

I reserve the right to exclude whomever I want and whatever I want from my private property (yeah, I know the gov't trumps this exclusion.)
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:14:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By go3:


Your rights aren't being violated. You don't have to park in their parking lot. You don't have to work their. It is your choice.



Not entirely true. Working for Boeing in Mesa AZ, the complex is located on the opposite side of an air park. One side of the corner is a Boeing owned golf course. Other corner was the runway, and one corner was for sale, but no clear area to park, even if you could. No shuttle, or bus routes that far out. Where would you park your car, half + mile away on the other side of the airport? Some places are so remote, there are no options for parking other than an open to public lot.

Some places are so remote that parking anywhere else, even on the road would be illegal or dangerous, maybe both. As far as working THERE, when you become unemployed for several years at a time, maybe you'll realize that being picky about a good paying job is not always an option. Not everybody can make it on McDonald's wages. Heck, my child support alone is $1000/per month. Welcome to reality.




Just goes to show how many people will happily favor more government invovlement in day to day affairs if it allows them to push their agenda.



You can't discriminate against a person's creed, religion, race or political beliefs. Why would you agree with limiting what legal items a person could have in THIER personal property (vehicle)? A vehicle is your personal property. Are you going to say that I can't carpool with a black person or Asian, because they say they won't allow Asians or Blacks?? All this means is they can't discriminate against gun owners, a wholly legal right. Is it against the law to own a firearm? A parking lot is an open, public area unless gated and fenced. Bringing said firearm past the 4 secured walls of a building is a different matter. Not that it matters to me sometimes.

Here's a little secret: The gov is involved in many aspects of the business world. From EEO, overtime and hourly pay, to work breaks and what hours you can work, taxes, property and biz taxes, communications, travel, discrimination, lunch breaks, public safety, personal safety - and many more.

A law saying that your private owned vehicle and what you can keep in it would be just another extention of protecting your rights - such as the right to a safe work environment and not having to worry about losing a limb due to unsafe working practices to mandatory strip searches at work.

I don't see a problem with it at all.

Would you prefer that we went back to the standards and practices of the 1920's?

I don't understand some of you people here.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:17:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:19:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:
I say yes, it's private property. Goverment should have no say in what some one does with their property. Anti Gun or not, it's still the companys property they have every right to say who can and who cant bring a gun on to the property.



+1 If I own a business and want to be an idiot, the law should not prohibit this. People have a right not to work for me as do people have a right not to buy my goods. Let the market control not the government.

Patty
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:25:11 PM EDT
One more thing that is missing from this thread.

A private home dwelling is quite different from an established, open to the public business.

By default, a business is usually open to the public, with entry rights assumed unless revoked (see criminal trespass). Even with a secured facility (DoD contractor) the parking lot is still usually open to the public without restriction.

By default, a person's private home, is private and open to the public specifically by invitation only.

So, private property rights only go so far in a business setting. Far different than your front yard or living room. They are not the same.
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