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Posted: 1/6/2012 7:35:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 7:46:25 AM EDT by Wash-Ar15]
Sad ending. I have a couple of questions for our police folks though

If he was convicted and fired, would he lose his pension and benefits?

If he went for treatment, when he finished, how would he have been treated by the police force?

http://www.king5.com/news/cities/seattle/Seattle-PD-investigating-officer-wrongdoing-136747423.html
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:36:35 AM EDT
self correcting problem?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:45:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
Sad ending. I have a couple of questions for our police folks though

If he was convicted and fired, would he lose his pension and benefits?

If he went for treatment, when he finished, how would he have been treated by the police force?

http://www.king5.com/news/cities/seattle/Seattle-PD-investigating-officer-wrongdoing-136747423.html


Can't speak for Wa, but in NJ, if caught ie, tested positive, he would be immediately fired as in ON THE SPOT when the piss results came back. No conviction necessary, he would then have to get an attorney and fight for his job, of course any conviction would pretty much make that a moot point. But, with a Hot test?? goes like this....Badge, Gun, now, and GTFO, name would be entered in a statewide drug abuser database, and never be elligible for any LE jobs again. Loss of pension and all contributions he made. If he went to treatment FIRST, he, upon release from the program would go back to work..i know personally I'd have trouble trusting him, and more than likely he would be getting randomly tested for the next couple of years, and more than likely be put into an admin assignment.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:58:10 AM EDT
Wait-they don't drug test their officers? WTF?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:30:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Wait-they don't drug test their officers? WTF?


Shit, we get tested so often i get an unconrollable urge to wee-wee anytime i see a small jar
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 2:45:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Wait-they don't drug test their officers? WTF?


That is a great question. drug testing has not been mentioned at all on the media about this tragedy

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 2:47:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Wait-they don't drug test their officers? WTF?


Only place I've ever been piss tested was the military; for a while there I was part of the "random 10%" of the unit being tested almost monthly, it seemed.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 2:49:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:

If he went for treatment, when he finished, how would he have been treated by the police force?



The way it seems to work.

If you tell your employer "I have a susbstance abuse problem, I need treatment" BEFORE you get into any trouble then they ususally will not fire you. If you wait until you get caught and then claim ADA protections you are usually screwed.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 2:50:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 2:56:34 PM EDT by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Wait-they don't drug test their officers? WTF?


Only place I've ever been piss tested was the military; for a while there I was part of the "random 10%" of the unit being tested almost monthly, it seemed.


We have random drug screening. I've only been tested twice that i can recall.

When it came time to ratify the contract that implemented drug testing i voted against it out of privacy concerns though. They have you list all Rx or OTC drugs you are taking before you piss test and I'm not sure the drug screening process has proper controls in place to prevent misuse or abuse. I do not take any Rx meds on a regular basis. But I'm sure in a department our size there are more than a few taking Valtrex or such. Maybe even a few taking medications for mental health conditions and their privacy should be protected.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 2:50:59 PM EDT
Natural selection, working.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 2:53:27 PM EDT
The last thread about this topic got locked
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 2:55:58 PM EDT
Only get tested in the academy, and prior to hiring..
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 2:57:26 PM EDT
So is this a win or a loss for the WOD?

Riddle me that.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 2:57:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sparky:
The last thread about this topic got locked


about the officers death, or drug testing police??

If the mods feel it the right thing to do, its their call.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 3:02:13 PM EDT
U.C.A.

Shit'll get you in the end, you're not careful.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 3:04:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 3:09:13 PM EDT by Bronze]
5 time outs, 2 perma bans, thread lock and a reminder as to why we cant have nice things in GD.

ETA: I do know with SPD that that if you have an alcohol problem and put yourself in AA or another treatment program they cant touch you. You will fall into a protected status. When it comes to dope, I am sure they have a similar outreach program for dope but I dont know if they will keep you on the force.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 3:06:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bronze:
5 time outs, 2 perma bans, thread lock and a reminder as to why we cant have nice things in GD.


Join date: Nov 2011
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 3:07:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bronze:
5 time outs, 2 perma bans, thread lock and a reminder as to why we cant have nice things in GD.
Man, you got this shit clocked, don't ya?

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 3:11:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By runcible:

Originally Posted By Bronze:
5 time outs, 2 perma bans, thread lock and a reminder as to why we cant have nice things in GD.
Man, you got this shit clocked, don't ya?




Been lurking here long enough to know how cop threads end up.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 3:11:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
Sad ending. I have a couple of questions for our police folks though

If he was convicted and fired, would he lose his pension and benefits?

If he went for treatment, when he finished, how would he have been treated by the police force?

http://www.king5.com/news/cities/seattle/Seattle-PD-investigating-officer-wrongdoing-136747423.html


Pension is a state issue. If you look at it like this–– the officer pays into the system. Should their money be taken away because of a conviction? Does anyone else lose SS money for a conviction?

Hard drugs typically is a firing. Even after treatment, the re-offending rates are high.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 4:04:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Wait-they don't drug test their officers? WTF?


Only place I've ever been piss tested was the military; for a while there I was part of the "random 10%" of the unit being tested almost monthly, it seemed.


We have random drug screening. I've only been tested twice that i can recall.

When it came time to ratify the contract that implemented drug testing i voted against it out of privacy concerns though. They have you list all Rx or OTC drugs you are taking before you piss test and I'm not sure the drug screening process has proper controls in place to prevent misuse or abuse. I do not take any Rx meds on a regular basis. But I'm sure in a department our size there are more than a few taking Valtrex or such. Maybe even a few taking medications for mental health conditions and their privacy should be protected.


We have to fill out a prescription and OTC list before we piss. Those are sealed with your Social on it, goes to the lab with your sample. if they get a hit, they unseal the list and check to see if that corresponds with what the positive test is. We also give double samples, one gets retained and goes to an independant lab at our PBA's expense to be tested if the State-lab sample goes positive. As far as US, there's an NJ Attorney general's guideline requiring random testing. We do it 10% at a time now at one point our Mayor demanded we do 50% at a time. Till the bill hit....oh yeah, even though it's a STATE mandate, the towns have to pay for it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 4:06:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Only get tested in the academy, and prior to hiring..


Sounds like someone in your shop needs to read the AG guidelines brother...
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 4:08:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 4:08:20 PM EDT
This convicted guy from the next county over will apparently still be able to collect, just not immediately:

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/former_auburn_police_officer_n.html

He is trying to be granted 4 months of service so he qualifies for an immediate LE pension. Soooooooooo close..........
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 4:10:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bronze:
5 time outs, 2 perma bans, thread lock and a reminder as to why we cant have nice things in GD.

ETA: I do know with SPD that that if you have an alcohol problem and put yourself in AA or another treatment program they cant touch you. You will fall into a protected status. When it comes to dope, I am sure they have a similar outreach program for dope but I dont know if they will keep you on the force.


There are stories about agencies where guys literally beat IA to the door of the treatment center by seconds..maybe the usual embellishment with retelling is present, but ya gotta wonder.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 4:11:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bronze:

Originally Posted By runcible:

Originally Posted By Bronze:
5 time outs, 2 perma bans, thread lock and a reminder as to why we cant have nice things in GD.
Man, you got this shit clocked, don't ya?




Been lurking here long enough to know how cop threads end up.


The Bronze take our pride!

And anyone who's been here for a week knows how these threads end up. Anyway, I've noticed police here seem to get "randomly" tested whenever they get back from any vacation that takes them on a cruise or out of the country.

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 4:13:12 PM EDT
Everybody's got problems. Drug abuse is merely a symptom. Police are people too and some of them far from perfect.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 4:34:57 PM EDT
Yay, another battle won for the war on freedom!

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 4:36:39 PM EDT
fta:
"SPD does not conduct random drug or alcohol testing of officers and employees."

convenient.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 4:40:55 PM EDT
isolated incident.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 4:41:12 PM EDT
all public employees should be drug tested monthly and randomly. taxpayers money
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 5:52:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 5:55:04 PM EDT by Extorris]
Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
Sad ending. I have a couple of questions for our police folks though
If he was convicted and fired, would he lose his pension and benefits?

He would here.

Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Wait-they don't drug test their officers? WTF?

Shit, we get tested so often i get an uncontrollable urge to wee-wee anytime i see a small jar

Same here. Urine and hair randomly.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 5:59:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 6:01:03 PM EDT by BJohnson383]
Originally Posted By kabal57:
fta:
"SPD does not conduct random drug or alcohol testing of officers and employees."

convenient.


Before you jump on the band wagon why dont you look into WA State law regarding these tests. I know that you guys rarely let facts get in the way of your emotions or personal bias.


ETA: I dont have a problem with them, in fact we probably should. While Im in fantasy land we should run the PAT twice a year too and fire those who cant do it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:05:31 PM EDT
We get it prior to hiring....randomly after. Its been 18 years and I ain't had to pee yet. Of course my name ain't randomly either.......and since I don't even take asprin, I got no worries. They say pee - I can pee with no worries.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:12:35 PM EDT
This happened a couple miles from my house.

There's emerging evidence that this guy picked that specific intersection here in North Bend so that the children coming home on the bus from Opstead Elementary a few blocks away would have to see it as they went past (my wife drives for the school district here).

So.. fuck him.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:20:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Wait-they don't drug test their officers? WTF?


Shit, we get tested so often i get an unconrollable urge to wee-wee anytime i see a small jar




Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:22:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dunragit:
self correcting problem?


In.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:23:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
This happened a couple miles from my house.

There's emerging evidence that this guy picked that specific intersection here in North Bend so that the children coming home on the bus from Opstead Elementary a few blocks away would have to see it as they went past (my wife drives for the school district here).

So.. fuck him.


Do you realize how retarded that sounds? I am thinking that probably was not his reasoning.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:27:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Wait-they don't drug test their officers? WTF?


gravy in 5 years ive been tested 8 times...and ive never tried any drug

losing his pension depends on the department and state....if he got caught and convicted and went to jail, whats the difference in someone else and them not losing their 401k
pension's are money that the officer pays into, i pay 200$ a paycheck into mine...hell if someone takes my money from me
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:29:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FP2000H:
Everybody's got problems. Drug abuse is merely a symptom. Police are people too and some of them far from perfect.


This.
It's a story about a sick individual not about crooked police.

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:39:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 7:40:56 PM EDT by RCJ]
Originally Posted By LORD-eX-Bu:
isolated incident.


Next time you think you're being clever, remember this post.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:52:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 7:54:09 PM EDT by Wash-Ar15]
Originally Posted By GumbyTM:
Originally Posted By FP2000H:
Everybody's got problems. Drug abuse is merely a symptom. Police are people too and some of them far from perfect.


This.
It's a story about a sick individual not about crooked police.



I would agree. Crack, like many drugs,affects all demographics
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:52:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GumbyTM:
Originally Posted By FP2000H:
Everybody's got problems. Drug abuse is merely a symptom. Police are people too and some of them far from perfect.


This.
It's a story about a sick individual not about crooked police.



If that is the case it should go the same way as all the other threads involving thieving drug addicts. The cop angle will skew some to make a distinction between this case and other where a LEO wasn't involved.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:06:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FP2000H:
Everybody's got problems. Drug abuse is merely a symptom. Police are people too and some of them far from perfect.




If this was a story about some ghetto/trailer dweller that killed himself rather than get brought up on crack/meth charges there would already have been three pages of well bye, ha ha gifs, self correcting problem etc etc etc.

The only difference between em is this asshole was scum that happened to swindle the taxpayers out of a paycheck for 20 years vs collecting welfare.

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:28:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By outofbattery:
Originally Posted By FP2000H:
Everybody's got problems. Drug abuse is merely a symptom. Police are people too and some of them far from perfect.




If this was a story about some ghetto/trailer dweller that killed himself rather than get brought up on crack/meth charges there would already have been three pages of well bye, ha ha gifs, self correcting problem etc etc etc.

The only difference between em is this asshole was scum that happened to swindle the taxpayers out of a paycheck for 20 years vs collecting welfare.





+1




Roy
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:31:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By outofbattery:
The only difference between em is this asshole was scum that happened to swindle the taxpayers out of a paycheck for 20 years vs collecting welfare.



"Officer Nelson was a good man, he was a good officer," said his former partner, Officer Brian Gunther.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:44:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Wait-they don't drug test their officers? WTF?


Only place I've ever been piss tested was the military; for a while there I was part of the "random 10%" of the unit being tested almost monthly, it seemed.


I've been pissed prior to every civilian job I've ever had except 1. They did the 10% random when I was active. I got pissed 90% of the time, and the known users never got called to stand behind the formation. Odd that it happened to you, too. Coincidence, I'm sure.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:46:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By staringback05:
Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Wait-they don't drug test their officers? WTF?


gravy in 5 years ive been tested 8 times...and ive never tried any drug

losing his pension depends on the department and state....if he got caught and convicted and went to jail, whats the difference in someone else and them not losing their 401k
pension's are money that the officer pays into, i pay 200$ a paycheck into mine...hell if someone takes my money from me


I agree. There has to be a way to get back contributions, or at least to a way to give them to lawyers.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:47:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 8:48:27 PM EDT by packingXDs]

Originally Posted By deuce_22:
Originally Posted By outofbattery:
The only difference between em is this asshole was scum that happened to swindle the taxpayers out of a paycheck for 20 years vs collecting welfare.



"Officer Nelson was a good man, he was a good officer," said his former partner, Officer Brian Gunther.

My officer didn't do nuffin'.

Nelson was the subject of an internal investigation within the department called an "integrity test," said Seattle Police Chief John Diaz, after concerns surfaced that narcotic evidence was not being handled properly by Nelson.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 9:26:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Wait-they don't drug test their officers? WTF?


Only place I've ever been piss tested was the military; for a while there I was part of the "random 10%" of the unit being tested almost monthly, it seemed.


We have random drug screening. I've only been tested twice that i can recall.

When it came time to ratify the contract that implemented drug testing i voted against it out of privacy concerns though. They have you list all Rx or OTC drugs you are taking before you piss test and I'm not sure the drug screening process has proper controls in place to prevent misuse or abuse. I do not take any Rx meds on a regular basis. But I'm sure in a department our size there are more than a few taking Valtrex or such. Maybe even a few taking medications for mental health conditions and their privacy should be protected.


We have to fill out a prescription and OTC list before we piss. Those are sealed with your Social on it, goes to the lab with your sample. if they get a hit, they unseal the list and check to see if that corresponds with what the positive test is. We also give double samples, one gets retained and goes to an independant lab at our PBA's expense to be tested if the State-lab sample goes positive. As far as US, there's an NJ Attorney general's guideline requiring random testing. We do it 10% at a time now at one point our Mayor demanded we do 50% at a time. Till the bill hit....oh yeah, even though it's a STATE mandate, the towns have to pay for it.


When was the last time the mayor took a test?
Yeah he doesn't carry a gun but I bet he drives a city car

Link Posted: 1/7/2012 12:59:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:

I've been pissed prior to every civilian job I've ever had except 1. They did the 10% random when I was active. I got pissed 90% of the time, and the known users never got called to stand behind the formation. Odd that it happened to you, too. Coincidence, I'm sure.


They may have done it before employment; thats 24 years ago, so I don't recall.

I knew guys in the .mil who went through every second chance and rehab there was and still pissed hot. Dummies. They KNEW piss tests would catch them sooner or later and still couldn't stay off the stuff.
With the coming drawdowns I am sure that'll be one of the things they'll be using to thin the ranks with.
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