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AR15.COM
6/17/2007 12:41:00 AM EDT
I work for a sheriff's office in oklahoma and have a question for my fellow cops out there.  Is it legal for the county to make deputies work over 260 hours per month and not be granted over time pay or comp time?  We are not even allowed to write down how many hours we work on our time sheets, they make us claim only 8 hours per shift. I really dont want to rock the boat but, man this crap is getting old real fast.  All of the deputies here are mad about this, they just keep screwing us over every chance they get.  What pisses us off the most is the county road crews get paid the same amount as we do and they get PAID all of their over time and we have fewer staff than they do!  I went to payroll and some old hag said there is nothing we can do because we are personal staff of the sheriff, you're salary and not county personal.  I call bs on this crock of garbage, can some one please tell me if this legal?  If its legal Ill shut up but if not who do I need to call?  I feel the county is screwing us in two ways: 1. They are not paying us over time or comp time.  2.  They are not hiring enough deputies to cover three shifts.  So, what do you guys think?  
6/17/2007 4:44:19 AM EDT
[#1]
Sounds like you need to have your members look into the FLSA. I would also contact my unior reps and see what they think.
6/17/2007 4:48:43 AM EDT
[#2]
That does not sound legal........I hate to say it, but I would place a call to the state and have them investigate, just dont give them any personal info ...that sounds like something Grady county would pull....
6/17/2007 4:50:18 AM EDT
[#3]
My department does the same thing. Suppose to work 8 but if you go over, you only get paid for 8. Either turn them in or look for another job.
6/17/2007 8:23:58 AM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
Sounds like you need to have your members look into the FLSA. I would also contact my unior reps and see what they think.


Fair labor standards act?  
6/17/2007 8:26:12 AM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:
That does not sound legal........I hate to say it, but I would place a call to the state and have them investigate, just dont give them any personal info ...that sounds like something Grady county would pull....



Im afraid if they found out I rocked the boat I would be fired.
6/17/2007 8:31:58 AM EDT
[#6]
www.dol.gov/esa/whd/flsa/faq.htm


OVERTIME AND WORK HOURS
When is overtime due?

For covered, nonexempt employees, the FLSA requires overtime pay at a rate of not less than one and one-half times an employee's regular rate of pay after 40 hours of work in a workweek. Some exceptions to the 40 hours per week standard apply under special circumstances to police officers and fire fighters employed by public agencies and to employees of hospitals and nursing homes.

Some states have also enacted overtime laws. Where an employee is subject to both the state and Federal overtime laws, the employee is entitled to overtime according to the higher standard (i.e., the standard that will provide the higher rate of pay).


www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs8.htm


Fact Sheet #8: Police and Fire Fighters Under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)
Printer Friendly Page

This fact sheet provides general information concerning the application of the FLSA to law enforcement and fire protection personnel of State and local governments.

Characteristics
Fire protection personnel employed by a fire department include firefighters, paramedics, emergency medical technicians, rescue workers, ambulance personnel, or hazardous materials workers who are:

trained in fire suppression,
have the legal authority and responsibility to engage in fire suppression, and
are engaged in the prevention, control and extinguishment of fires or response to emergency situations where life, property, or the environment is at risk.


Law enforcement personnel are employees who are empowered by State or local ordinance to enforce laws designed to maintain peace and order, protect life and property, and to prevent and detect crimes; who have the power to arrest; and who have undergone training in law enforcement.
Coverage
Employees of State and local governments are covered by the FLSA (section 3(s)(1)(C)).

Requirements
Hours of work include all of the time an employee is on duty at the employer's establishment or at a prescribed work place, as well as all other time during which the employee is suffered or permitted to work for the employer. Under certain specified conditions time spent in sleeping and eating may be excluded from compensable time.

The FLSA requires that all covered, non-exempt employees be paid at least the statutory minimum wage, -- $5.15 an hour effective 9/1/97.

The FLSA requires that all covered, non-exempt employees be paid time and one-half their regular rates of pay for all hours worked in excess of 40 in a workweek.

Section 13(b)(20) of the FLSA provides an overtime exemption to law enforcement or fire protection employees of a public agency which employs less than five employees in law enforcement or fire protection activities.

Section 7(k) of the FLSA provides that employees engaged in fire protection or law enforcement may be paid overtime on a "work period" basis. A "work period" may be from 7 consecutive days to 28 consecutive days in length. For example, fire protection personnel are due overtime under such a plan after 212 hours worked during a 28-day period, while law enforcement personnel must receive overtime after 171 hours worked during a 28-day period. For work periods of at least 7 but less than 28 days, overtime pay is required when the number of hours worked exceeds the number of hours which bears the same relationship to 212 (fire) or 171 (police) as the number of days in the work period bears to 28.


Under certain prescribed conditions, a State or local government agency may give compensatory time at a rate of not less than one and one-half hours for each overtime hour worked, in lieu of cash overtime compensation. Employees engaged in police and fire protection work may accrue up to 480 hours of compensatory time.

An employee should be permitted to use compensatory time within a reasonable period after making the request, if doing so does not "unduly disrupt" the operations of the employer.

At the time of termination an employee must be paid the higher of (1) his/her final regular rate of pay or (2) the average regular rate during his\her last three years of employment for any compensatory time remaining "on the books" when termination occurs. For more information on state and local governments under the FLSA, see Fact Sheet #7.

No covered employer may employ any minor in violation of the child labor provisions of the FLSA. The Act establishes specific provisions concerning prohibited occupations and/or hours of employment of minors under age 18.

Covered employers must make, keep and preserve payroll-related records as described by Regulations, 29 CFR Part 516.




6/17/2007 10:49:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Some are covered by the Railroad act.... I want to say it is part of FLSA 7k.

I can't remember the number of total hours, but it is something funky like a 28 day work period.

I know they suck some time out of you, but I don't believe it is even close to what you are claiming.

260 hrs. per month???? That is 26 10 hour shifts. Something is wrong here!!
6/17/2007 2:45:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Our department recently settled its FSLA lawsuit.  Initial payments were made and the larger lump sum payment is due in July.

Sounds like you guys need to seriously look into this.
6/17/2007 3:15:20 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
Some are covered by the Railroad act.... I want to say it is part of FLSA 7k.

I can't remember the number of total hours, but it is something funky like a 28 day work period.

I know they suck some time out of you, but I don't believe it is even close to what you are claiming.

260 hrs. per month???? That is 26 10 hour shifts. Something is wrong here!!



I claim that amount of time because thats what im working.  We work 12 hour shitfts some times we dont even get two days off.  We work through our " days off " they call  it being on call but there is a catch that will blow your mind.  When on calll they want us to patrol atleast 16 hours during the 48 hours on call.  We work over 260 hours a month and this is a conservative figure.  Yes you guessed it some times we dont get days off.  A guy I know who got sick of it turned in his notice so they forced him to use up all of his vacation time so they wouldnt have to pay him!  Guys I know this sounds crazy but they are doing this to us and getting away with it.
6/17/2007 3:37:32 PM EDT
[#10]
If you don't rock the boat, then they are going to continue to do it to you and everybody else.  

My Sheriff is being sued right now for not paying the patrol division 15 min's comp time to come in for line up each shirt and other things of course.  

If I work a holiday I only get 8 hours holiday leave but I a 12 hour shift.  WTF?


John,

I work a 28 work period and I work between 160-168 hours, because I am on a 12 hour work shift.  Anything over 12 hours is comp time, any training on my days off is comp time.  

Contact the Oklahoma Department of Labor, and ask them if thats legal for them to do that.  I know you are worried about being fired, but like I said before if someone does not do anything about it then they will continue to abuse it and someone is going to get hurt or get killed over it.  


Aother thing you can do is make copies of you time sheet and if it sates that you worked that amount of hours then you got them.  If it does it you can get copies of radio logs and save them it should have when you went 10-8 and 10-7 time on there.  
6/17/2007 3:44:49 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:
I work for a sheriff's office in oklahoma and have a question for my fellow cops out there.  Is it legal for the county to make deputies work over 260 hours per month and not be granted over time pay or comp time?  We are not even allowed to write down how many hours we work on our time sheets, they make us claim only 8 hours per shift. I really dont want to rock the boat but, man this crap is getting old real fast.  All of the deputies here are mad about this, they just keep screwing us over every chance they get.  What pisses us off the most is the county road crews get paid the same amount as we do and they get PAID all of their over time and we have fewer staff than they do!  I went to payroll and some old hag said there is nothing we can do because we are personal staff of the sheriff, your salary and not county personal.  I call bs on this crock of garbage, can some one please tell me if this legal?  If its legal Ill shut up but if not who do I need to call?  I feel the county is screwing us in two ways: 1. They are not paying us over time or comp time.  2.  They are not hiring enough deputies to cover three shifts.  So, what do you guys think?  


That violates FEDERAL law. The state is irrelevent.
6/17/2007 6:24:37 PM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
If you don't rock the boat, then they are going to continue to do it to you and everybody else.  

My Sheriff is being sued right now for not paying the patrol division 15 min's comp time to come in for line up each shirt and other things of course.  

If I work a holiday I only get 8 hours holiday leave but I a 12 hour shift.  WTF?


John,

I work a 28 work period and I work between 160-168 hours, because I am on a 12 hour work shift.  Anything over 12 hours is comp time, any training on my days off is comp time.  

Contact the Oklahoma Department of Labor, and ask them if thats legal for them to do that.  I know you are worried about being fired, but like I said before if someone does not do anything about it then they will continue to abuse it and someone is going to get hurt or get killed over it.  


Aother thing you can do is make copies of you time sheet and if it sates that you worked that amount of hours then you got them.  If it does it you can get copies of radio logs and save them it should have when you went 10-8 and 10-7 time on there.  



Im very thankful to every one who has provided me with info.  Thanks to all.  Im sure you can all understand why I voice my worry over being fired.  If they fired me for calling for an investgation it could damage my career and keep from being hired by a better dept. in the future.  


Ive been keeping track of all my time.  I make copies of my time sheets and my work schedules.  My schedule shows all the hours they require me to work, my time sheets show the hours im allowed to log.  All the deputies have been keeping track of this garbage.  
6/17/2007 7:51:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Don't forget your "WHISTLE BLOWER's Act" protection...is the Sheriff a total moron or a puppet of the county.

6/18/2007 3:10:17 AM EDT
[#14]
I work as a reserve for the same agency, what 603 says is the truth.  I have worked shifts for some of the guys on my days off so they could have a break.  I can only work the weekends.  I just don't have any more free time to give for these guys.  I have not asked to get paid for any time that I have worked, but it would be nice if they would at least offer me something.

603, if you need anything, all you gotta do is call.
6/18/2007 4:11:06 AM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:
I work as a reserve for the same agency, what 603 says is the truth.  I have worked shifts for some of the guys on my days off so they could have a break.  I can only work the weekends.  I just don't have any more free time to give for these guys.  I have not asked to get paid for any time that I have worked, but it would be nice if they would at least offer me something.

603, if you need anything, all you gotta do is call.



I know you're willing, but you work a full time job too.  I think I need a vacation.  I think we all do.  I would be more than willing to give up the over time for a little full time help on my side of the county.  We need more deputies very, very bad.  Its just too dangerous getting called to a domestic when you've been up for three months w/o sleep (joking).  Ive been getting radio calls when im "off duty" again.  It never fails when im off duty I get a call and its always a felony sh&* storm that takes weeks of work.  So im forced to work day shift then answer calls when I get home because im really scheuled to work at 1700 hours!   Low and behold I get another damn call and end up out on the street for hours.  It wouldnt be so bad If I was getting some OT for it but damn its free work for the county.  Several months ago some scrote shot at my under sheriff and got away after a long man hunt.  Then last week some "undocumented worker" tried to pull a gun on several of our guys.  Thank God they were not hurt or killed.    Need more deputies.    
6/18/2007 2:59:00 PM EDT
[#16]
height=8
Quoted:
I work for a sheriff's office in oklahoma and have a question for my fellow cops out there.  Is it legal for the county to make deputies work over 260 hours per month and not be granted over time pay or comp time?  
No this is no legal at all

We are not even allowed to write down how many hours we work on our time sheets, they make us claim only 8 hours per shift. I really dont want to rock the boat but, man this crap is getting old real fast.  All of the deputies here are mad about this, they just keep screwing us over every chance they get.   You and your fellow deputies have to rock the boat and make some noise about this issue.  I bet when the citzens find out about this things will change.  In Iowa the Sheriff is the only one that can hire or fire so as long as your sheriff doesn't start firing deputies you should be fine.

What pisses us off the most is the county road crews get paid the same amount as we do and they get PAID all of their over time and we have fewer staff than they do!  I went to payroll and some old hag said there is nothing we can do because we are personal staff of the sheriff, you're salary and not county personal.  I call bs on this crock of garbage, can some one please tell me if this legal?  If its legal Ill shut up but if not who do I need to call?  I feel the county is screwing us in two ways: 1. They are not paying us over time or comp time.  2.  They are not hiring enough deputies to cover three shifts.  So, what do you guys think?  heriff
It's important that all the deputies are on the same page with this issue and stick together.  The sooner you guys do something the sooner it will get better.

HD03King  
6/18/2007 3:29:41 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I work for a sheriff's office in oklahoma and have a question for my fellow cops out there.  Is it legal for the county to make deputies work over 260 hours per month and not be granted over time pay or comp time?  
No this is no legal at all

We are not even allowed to write down how many hours we work on our time sheets, they make us claim only 8 hours per shift. I really dont want to rock the boat but, man this crap is getting old real fast.  All of the deputies here are mad about this, they just keep screwing us over every chance they get.   You and your fellow deputies have to rock the boat and make some noise about this issue.  I bet when the citzens find out about this things will change.  In Iowa the Sheriff is the only one that can hire or fire so as long as your sheriff doesn't start firing deputies you should be fine.

What pisses us off the most is the county road crews get paid the same amount as we do and they get PAID all of their over time and we have fewer staff than they do!  I went to payroll and some old hag said there is nothing we can do because we are personal staff of the sheriff, you're salary and not county personal.  I call bs on this crock of garbage, can some one please tell me if this legal?  If its legal Ill shut up but if not who do I need to call?  I feel the county is screwing us in two ways: 1. They are not paying us over time or comp time.  2.  They are not hiring enough deputies to cover three shifts.  So, what do you guys think?  


If your Sheriff backs all the deputies then he should tell the County Commission that he only as enough deputies to work so many hours per week and anything over that is overtime or if the commission won't OK the overtime then there will not be any deputies on duty or on-call.  The dispatchers will have to start calling in the state police to handle calls. The residents won't like being told we don't have a deputy to respone but we will call the state police, which could take hours to respond.  When the residents start complaining tell them to call the County Commissioners and ask why there is no money to staff the Sheriff's Dept.  I know I would rather have a safe county then a smooth road.  

It's important that all the deputies are on the same page with this issue and stick together.  The sooner you guys do something the sooner it will get better.

HD03King  


I agree, we have to stick together on this or it will never change.  
6/18/2007 3:54:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Have yall contacted something like the F.O.P. they should be able to help.
6/18/2007 7:18:19 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:
Have yall contacted something like the F.O.P. they should be able to help.


We are not FOP.  
6/19/2007 12:49:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Do you guys have any kind of a contract or union? I understand that working for the Sheriff in any county is all politics but you should at least have some kind of labor agreement. Don't be so enthusiastic about the F.O.P. either, our local lodge(7) has been selling us down the river to the mayor for years,it's not a union by the way, it's a fraternity. We have another meaning for the letters F.O.P. but I won't mention it here.