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Posted: 8/25/2005 8:42:14 AM EDT
I'm the senior military science instructor at the ROTC dept at Minnesota State University in Mankato. I went to the student union yesterday to get lunch and "just be seen on campus". This guy sitting next to me keeps stairing at me and finally asks if I'm from ROTC.

He asks me if we ever take our "recruits" to tour a VA center. I tell him no and and he stands up, gets all red faced and pissed. He blurts out "You need to show them how they will be treated after they leave the Army". The he grabs his stuff and stomps out the door.

What an asshat.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:45:28 AM EDT
I can't help but have anything but sympathy for vets. The way the majority of this country pisses on, or ignores them is an atrocity. He probably had some mental stuff going on. Let's just say, if I was a recruiter, I wouldn't want you to take his advice. In fact, I'd be pretty pissed if you did.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:50:42 AM EDT
I've heard a full spectrum of how Veterans are treated at VA medical centers, from wonderful to negligent. I really don't know if there is a "typical" one.

With that said, I'd bet that some of the Vets, especially older ones with limited family contact, would really appreciate visits from the ROTC cadets.

When I was in the Air Force we'd take a couple busloads of Airmen to the VA hospital around Memorial Day and Veterans' Day.

It was a great experience on both sides.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:06:21 AM EDT
my dad lives about equidistant from 2 VA hospitals. Hospital A is wonderful. Hosipital B is horrible.

You have to shop around.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:23:04 AM EDT
He might not be too far off about the VA. Dealing with them for education and disability benefits has been a nightmare.

However, a visit to a VA hospital may not be a bad idea. Some of those vets don't have anybody, and a number of ROTC cadets that I have encountered fail to realize the seriousness of their chosen profession.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:40:28 AM EDT


ASSHAT?


Buddy, if you ever frequent a veterans club, I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself, for your own well-being.


America’s VA treats thousands of disabled veterans like pieces of garbage. Every day.


why DON’T you show recruits the results of typical VA treatments?

Afraid the negatives of military service might diminish the positives? And make your job a little harder?


I’ll save you a trip. Let them read this post.

Here’s a FEW hi-lights of my VA treatment...


A simple medical problem, fully documented in my military records. 21 MONTHS for the VA to acknowledge service connection. During that time the problem worsened considerably.


Seven years of incompetent medical personnel, changing diagnosis and treatments frequently. Almost never see the same medical provider twice. And each new guy has a different theory than the last guy. They were just trainee doctors using veterans as guinea pigs. Not much different than medical experiments in WW2 Germany.


My surgery was performed by a civilian General Practitioner, with no public affiliation with the VA, supposedly being overseen by a VA surgeon, whom I doubt was even in the room. He botched it severely, and the hospital stay gave me EIGHT NEW permanent medical problems.


The Intensive Care Unit was disgusting. There were cockroaches on the floor. The shower had no water. Guys in pain screaming for nurses until their voices gave out, because they rarely ever answered the nurse-call lights. Nurses stealing the patients pain meds. One patient overflowed the toilet and flooded my room with bacteria-laden water, which was not cleaned up for SIX HOURS. I got hepatitis. Also got severe pneumonia and pleurisy. The inflatable leggings, to prevent blood clots, laid unused on the chair next to my bed, unnoticed by all the medical personnel. I have severe blood clots now. The surgery permanently damaged my lungs, stomach, esophagus as well as other internal organs.


I was in constant, severe pain, and rapidly deteriorating. The only time I got any serious medical attention was when I was wheeled to the nurses station, to use the phone. I called a friend and told him to bring me my pistols. THAT got action, mainly, my discharge. Despite being unable to eat or swallow fluids, they discharged me, apparently to starve to death.


I left the VA via ambulance and went straight to a real hospital. WHAT A FREAKIN DIFFERENCE. They had modern equipment, were competent, and actually CARED about their patients. I was in critical condition, so they had all the specialists bring their equipment to me in the ER. It took many months of treatment, just to be able to live on my own. The bills were phenomenal. Lost the house, the cars, most everything I owned, and couldn’t work for years because of VA injuries.


When the VA messes you up, don’t expect documentation of that. Those records may exist, but you’ll never get them. Instead of x-rays, MRIs, videos, all you’ll get is the VA’s doctor’s evaluation of those pieces of hard evidence. You may be on your deathbed, but the VA doctor’s evaluation will say your fine, no complications. CASE CLOSED. Get Lost. You aren’t eligible for further treatment or compensation. For six days, mostly in ICU, I got three pages of medical records from the VA, mainly lists of food delivered, pills given, and bedchecks, about 70% of that info was false. No data on the surgery, or follow up tests. For ten days at a real hospital, I got over 200 pages of records, as well as x-rays and videos.


And don’t expect a civilian hospital’s evaluation of your condition (mine:critical, 18 hrs in ER), done the SAME DAY as the VA’s discharge eval, to change anyone’s mind at the VA. All my records showing the results of VA mistreatment didn’t get a single dime. They don’t have to accept reality, they can believe whatever they want to believe.


Several malpractice firms agreed I had a legitimate case, but they wouldn’t take it because fighting the VA was considerably more difficult and expensive than fighting an individual doctor. They only wanted the easy cases, ones with maximum payoffs for minimum work.


OTOH, It may warm your heart to know the VA offers free beds, food, and medial treatment to the homeless, drunks, drug addicts, etc who are NOT veterans, all in an effort to keep their “patient count” up, and justify their funding. One of these crackheads was put into my 4-bed ICU recovery room. When my IV fluids ran out and the alarm went off, he unplugged it because it disturbed his sleep. When the backup battery continued the alarm, he ripped the unit apart. This also silenced the signal to the nurses station, not that a nurse would have responded anyway. Around 4am, he gathered up as much medical equipment he thought he could pawn, and left.


What really sickened me, was a hospital roommate. A veteran of the Battle of Okinawa, and a survivor of a suicidal Japanese pilot. He had spent almost his entire life in VA hospitals since that attack. He had almost no legs left, from frequent amputations because the previous amputations became infected. He still had shrapnel in him and could barely use one arm. Imagine serving your country in war, and end up in abject poverty, unable to do even the simplest things for yourself, for the rest of your life, mainly due to VA incompetence and indifference.


BTW, did you know the VA still uses leeches and maggots as medical treatments? Nothin but the best for our returning veterans.


The military was a great experience. My VA experience was worse than what some POWs have received during captivity, and I’m not an exception.


You now have a small clue.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:46:02 AM EDT
Respectfully, I think you are out of line calling that man an "asshat".

You do not know what he has gone through in his lifetime. He very well may have experienced atrocious conditions that have led to his current bitterness.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:02:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
I'm the senior military science instructor at the ROTC dept at Minnesota State University in Mankato. I went to the student union yesterday to get lunch and "just be seen on campus". This guy sitting next to me keeps stairing at me and finally asks if I'm from ROTC.

He asks me if we ever take our "recruits" to tour a VA center. I tell him no and and he stands up, gets all red faced and pissed. He blurts out "You need to show them how they will be treated after they leave the Army". The he grabs his stuff and stomps out the door.

What an asshat.



He may not have been a veteran, or maybe he was - or a relative of one. Either way. let us know what you think after your visit.........There's a lot of truth to his observation. You think he was disrespecting veterans, or what? The "asshat" comment demands an explanation.

Re another reply: Maggots and leeches are enjoying a comeback of sorts in the literature.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:20:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 3:21:10 AM EDT by CitySlicker]
.

ETA: This needs to be seen:


Originally Posted By GAU5-A-A:


ASSHAT?


Buddy, if you ever frequent a veterans club, I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself, for your own well-being.


America’s VA treats thousands of disabled veterans like pieces of garbage. Every day.


why DON’T you show recruits the results of typical VA treatments?

Afraid the negatives of military service might diminish the positives? And make your job a little harder?


I’ll save you a trip. Let them read this post.

Here’s a FEW hi-lights of my VA treatment...


A simple medical problem, fully documented in my military records. 21 MONTHS for the VA to acknowledge service connection. During that time the problem worsened considerably.


Seven years of incompetent medical personnel, changing diagnosis and treatments frequently. Almost never see the same medical provider twice. And each new guy has a different theory than the last guy. They were just trainee doctors using veterans as guinea pigs. Not much different than medical experiments in WW2 Germany.


My surgery was performed by a civilian General Practitioner, with no public affiliation with the VA, supposedly being overseen by a VA surgeon, whom I doubt was even in the room. He botched it severely, and the hospital stay gave me EIGHT NEW permanent medical problems.


The Intensive Care Unit was disgusting. There were cockroaches on the floor. The shower had no water. Guys in pain screaming for nurses until their voices gave out, because they rarely ever answered the nurse-call lights. Nurses stealing the patients pain meds. One patient overflowed the toilet and flooded my room with bacteria-laden water, which was not cleaned up for SIX HOURS. I got hepatitis. Also got severe pneumonia and pleurisy. The inflatable leggings, to prevent blood clots, laid unused on the chair next to my bed, unnoticed by all the medical personnel. I have severe blood clots now. The surgery permanently damaged my lungs, stomach, esophagus as well as other internal organs.


I was in constant, severe pain, and rapidly deteriorating. The only time I got any serious medical attention was when I was wheeled to the nurses station, to use the phone. I called a friend and told him to bring me my pistols. THAT got action, mainly, my discharge. Despite being unable to eat or swallow fluids, they discharged me, apparently to starve to death.


I left the VA via ambulance and went straight to a real hospital. WHAT A FREAKIN DIFFERENCE. They had modern equipment, were competent, and actually CARED about their patients. I was in critical condition, so they had all the specialists bring their equipment to me in the ER. It took many months of treatment, just to be able to live on my own. The bills were phenomenal. Lost the house, the cars, most everything I owned, and couldn’t work for years because of VA injuries.


When the VA messes you up, don’t expect documentation of that. Those records may exist, but you’ll never get them. Instead of x-rays, MRIs, videos, all you’ll get is the VA’s doctor’s evaluation of those pieces of hard evidence. You may be on your deathbed, but the VA doctor’s evaluation will say your fine, no complications. CASE CLOSED. Get Lost. You aren’t eligible for further treatment or compensation. For six days, mostly in ICU, I got three pages of medical records from the VA, mainly lists of food delivered, pills given, and bedchecks, about 70% of that info was false. No data on the surgery, or follow up tests. For ten days at a real hospital, I got over 200 pages of records, as well as x-rays and videos.


And don’t expect a civilian hospital’s evaluation of your condition (mine:critical, 18 hrs in ER), done the SAME DAY as the VA’s discharge eval, to change anyone’s mind at the VA. All my records showing the results of VA mistreatment didn’t get a single dime. They don’t have to accept reality, they can believe whatever they want to believe.


Several malpractice firms agreed I had a legitimate case, but they wouldn’t take it because fighting the VA was considerably more difficult and expensive than fighting an individual doctor. They only wanted the easy cases, ones with maximum payoffs for minimum work.


OTOH, It may warm your heart to know the VA offers free beds, food, and medial treatment to the homeless, drunks, drug addicts, etc who are NOT veterans, all in an effort to keep their “patient count” up, and justify their funding. One of these crackheads was put into my 4-bed ICU recovery room. When my IV fluids ran out and the alarm went off, he unplugged it because it disturbed his sleep. When the backup battery continued the alarm, he ripped the unit apart. This also silenced the signal to the nurses station, not that a nurse would have responded anyway. Around 4am, he gathered up as much medical equipment he thought he could pawn, and left.


What really sickened me, was a hospital roommate. A veteran of the Battle of Okinawa, and a survivor of a suicidal Japanese pilot. He had spent almost his entire life in VA hospitals since that attack. He had almost no legs left, from frequent amputations because the previous amputations became infected. He still had shrapnel in him and could barely use one arm. Imagine serving your country in war, and end up in abject poverty, unable to do even the simplest things for yourself, for the rest of your life, mainly due to VA incompetence and indifference.


BTW, did you know the VA still uses leeches and maggots as medical treatments? Nothin but the best for our returning veterans.


The military was a great experience. My VA experience was worse than what some POWs have received during captivity, and I’m not an exception.


You now have a small clue.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 4:10:16 AM EDT
Tangochaser

Veterans (to include those about to retire) are treated like shit. And not just by the VA

My medical evaluation board just "didn't happen". When I tried to find out why, I was told to shut up or I would just be separated (as a SF O4, with 19.5 years of service) in lieu of retirement.

The only good thing that did was cause the VA to determine my disability level sympathetically because they were pissed at the Army.

Unfortunately there is a significant difference between a 60% military medical retirement and 30% service-connected from the VA (the 60% is based on Army medical regulations using the 'lowest' evaluation). For the Army, the key point was not to be paying for me and not to be responsible for my medical care after 62 - in other words, saving money.

The current Administration, on the eve of the invasion of Iraq, slashed the VA budget and the VA is still under funded against the GROWING need for VA services.

I knew it would be this way, based on my grandfather (WWI and WWII Army retiree vet) and my father's (WWII, Korea, DomRep, and VN retiree vet) experience and the experience of fellow Soldiers after separation or retirement.

I would serve again if I could do it all over again, but my eyes were wide open. The guys I felt sorry for were the ones getting their retirement physical that had hidden or avoided treatment for injuries, etc. to stay on jump status etc. No paper in their medical records or proof of their injuries means no VA disabilities findings. I'm sure it seemed like a good idea when they were a SSG or a CPT...

Expect nothing from a "grateful government" but to be treated like shit and you won't be disappointed.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 4:21:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GAU5-A-A:


ASSHAT?


Buddy, if you ever frequent a veterans club, I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself, for your own well-being.


America’s VA treats thousands of disabled veterans like pieces of garbage. Every day.


why DON’T you show recruits the results of typical VA treatments?

Afraid the negatives of military service might diminish the positives? And make your job a little harder?


I’ll save you a trip. Let them read this post.

Here’s a FEW hi-lights of my VA treatment...


A simple medical problem, fully documented in my military records. 21 MONTHS for the VA to acknowledge service connection. During that time the problem worsened considerably.


Seven years of incompetent medical personnel, changing diagnosis and treatments frequently. Almost never see the same medical provider twice. And each new guy has a different theory than the last guy. They were just trainee doctors using veterans as guinea pigs. Not much different than medical experiments in WW2 Germany.


My surgery was performed by a civilian General Practitioner, with no public affiliation with the VA, supposedly being overseen by a VA surgeon, whom I doubt was even in the room. He botched it severely, and the hospital stay gave me EIGHT NEW permanent medical problems.


The Intensive Care Unit was disgusting. There were cockroaches on the floor. The shower had no water. Guys in pain screaming for nurses until their voices gave out, because they rarely ever answered the nurse-call lights. Nurses stealing the patients pain meds. One patient overflowed the toilet and flooded my room with bacteria-laden water, which was not cleaned up for SIX HOURS. I got hepatitis. Also got severe pneumonia and pleurisy. The inflatable leggings, to prevent blood clots, laid unused on the chair next to my bed, unnoticed by all the medical personnel. I have severe blood clots now. The surgery permanently damaged my lungs, stomach, esophagus as well as other internal organs.


I was in constant, severe pain, and rapidly deteriorating. The only time I got any serious medical attention was when I was wheeled to the nurses station, to use the phone. I called a friend and told him to bring me my pistols. THAT got action, mainly, my discharge. Despite being unable to eat or swallow fluids, they discharged me, apparently to starve to death.


I left the VA via ambulance and went straight to a real hospital. WHAT A FREAKIN DIFFERENCE. They had modern equipment, were competent, and actually CARED about their patients. I was in critical condition, so they had all the specialists bring their equipment to me in the ER. It took many months of treatment, just to be able to live on my own. The bills were phenomenal. Lost the house, the cars, most everything I owned, and couldn’t work for years because of VA injuries.


When the VA messes you up, don’t expect documentation of that. Those records may exist, but you’ll never get them. Instead of x-rays, MRIs, videos, all you’ll get is the VA’s doctor’s evaluation of those pieces of hard evidence. You may be on your deathbed, but the VA doctor’s evaluation will say your fine, no complications. CASE CLOSED. Get Lost. You aren’t eligible for further treatment or compensation. For six days, mostly in ICU, I got three pages of medical records from the VA, mainly lists of food delivered, pills given, and bedchecks, about 70% of that info was false. No data on the surgery, or follow up tests. For ten days at a real hospital, I got over 200 pages of records, as well as x-rays and videos.


And don’t expect a civilian hospital’s evaluation of your condition (mine:critical, 18 hrs in ER), done the SAME DAY as the VA’s discharge eval, to change anyone’s mind at the VA. All my records showing the results of VA mistreatment didn’t get a single dime. They don’t have to accept reality, they can believe whatever they want to believe.


Several malpractice firms agreed I had a legitimate case, but they wouldn’t take it because fighting the VA was considerably more difficult and expensive than fighting an individual doctor. They only wanted the easy cases, ones with maximum payoffs for minimum work.


OTOH, It may warm your heart to know the VA offers free beds, food, and medial treatment to the homeless, drunks, drug addicts, etc who are NOT veterans, all in an effort to keep their “patient count” up, and justify their funding. One of these crackheads was put into my 4-bed ICU recovery room. When my IV fluids ran out and the alarm went off, he unplugged it because it disturbed his sleep. When the backup battery continued the alarm, he ripped the unit apart. This also silenced the signal to the nurses station, not that a nurse would have responded anyway. Around 4am, he gathered up as much medical equipment he thought he could pawn, and left.


What really sickened me, was a hospital roommate. A veteran of the Battle of Okinawa, and a survivor of a suicidal Japanese pilot. He had spent almost his entire life in VA hospitals since that attack. He had almost no legs left, from frequent amputations because the previous amputations became infected. He still had shrapnel in him and could barely use one arm. Imagine serving your country in war, and end up in abject poverty, unable to do even the simplest things for yourself, for the rest of your life, mainly due to VA incompetence and indifference.


BTW, did you know the VA still uses leeches and maggots as medical treatments? Nothin but the best for our returning veterans.


The military was a great experience. My VA experience was worse than what some POWs have received during captivity, and I’m not an exception.


You now have a small clue.

While I agree that vets are treated like shit, and believe every bit of what you posted, the part I changed to red should probably be addressed. Maggots and leaches both are considered cutting edge medical treatment and do AMAZING things for wound care. Other than that. fuck the VA for pissing on our vets even worse than the stupid people did that spit on them and attacked the vietnam vets when they came home.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 4:27:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 4:28:17 AM EDT
I was not aware that the VA cared for Vet's. Every Vet I know of has been denied medical care.

Including myself.

I guess if you didn't retire after 20 years, or if you get out and make a living for yourself the VA doesn't care.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:59:39 AM EDT
Asshat?

Hmm, I'd love to be able to show you the wonderful dental work the VA provided me upon ETS. Sure, they did a considerable amount of work, free of charge. (It was all work that should have been done while I was on active duty, however, OPTEMPO prevented me being able to keep dental appointments. - But, that's another rant.) A great deal of that work was preformed by incompetent medical students, though. I had to go back a couple times to have the real dentist fix the students work. Now, it's been two years since they completed my dental care, so it's too late to fix the latest failing of that students work. So, because they allowed some student to provide my care, I have to pay out-of-pocket for another dentist to replace the tooth that just fell apart.

When I went recently to make an appointment for my annual cancer follow-up, I was given an appointment 3 months away. I felt lucky, two years ago, I was told I could set an appointment 6 months away, or just come into the ER sometime and thye'd do the tests then and there.

The VA has a long history of being underfunded, understaffed, and overworked. As a result, we veterans generally get the shitty end of the stick. It's been known for a long time that this is how it can be. Now that we are again involved in a war where our soldiers are being injured and maimed on a daily basis, the workload of the VA is going to be futher stretched, with no increase in their budget.

Not to mention, if you were a highly-skilled doctor, where would you rather work? The VA, where your pay is minimal, your workload is tremendous and your resources are abyssmal? Or, at a civilian hospital / private practice, where the pay is better, the workload lighter, and the resources near limitless? It's my personal opinion that the majority of VA (and some active duty) doctors are graduates of the Grenada School of Medicine, who work there as a way of thanking the Rangers for saving their bacon in '83. (That doesn't really apply to most AD doc's, I've been treated by a few who were top-notch. Although, they all left the military as soon as their obligation expired.)
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:16:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:23:45 AM EDT

Originally posted by Tanim:

my dad lives about equidistant from 2 VA hospitals. Hospital A is wonderful. Hosipital B is horrible.

You have to shop around.



My father's experience as well. The VA does need better funding.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:26:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 9:28:38 AM EDT by WildBoar]
Each VA hospital is different. If I were to make a case against .gov run health care, I would send everyone who thinks its a good idea through the clinic by me. They will beg to pay for their own healthcare.

BTW my buddy is getting 60% and is not even hurt. The doc was dominican like him and wanted to take care of "his own" and gave him the % anyway. My buddy felt dirty, but the $$ check keeps him quiet. Yes he is a democrat.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:27:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 9:29:49 AM EDT by skid2964]

Originally Posted By GAU5-A-A:


*snip*
America’s VA treats thousands of disabled veterans like pieces of garbage. Every day.
*snip*




I had a friend that would tell of similar occurances. frustrated with years of ppor treatement after getting all shot-up in viet-nam. he finally gave up on everthing and didnt tell anyone when he felt a heart attack coming, he just took some medication to help him sleep and died before he woke up .

I also had a grandfather-in-law that fought in WW2 Italy that simply gave up and went to real hospital after my father-in-law offered to pay for his surgery.

This deeply disturbs me ... what can be done to help? anything? I know when the government gets it's claws deeply into something, it is hard to fix it.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:34:12 AM EDT
I am sure there are good ones out there (VA hospitals that is) but the times I have visited relatives in them, I wouldn't want my animals to be treated there. Unfrotunately, most have no other insurance and no choice. I went to one once for a physical and couldn't hardly communicate in English with most of the doctors and they were incompetent.

Unfortunately, also as a removed family member you do what you can, visit as often as possible and chew asses there as much as you can. I think its deplorable personally. A trip to the local VA with ROTC troops is a GOOD DAMN IDEA!!! I wish someone had taken me as a cadet.

My father, a 30+ veteran of the army including korea and 3 years in VN said it best--
In his words, "I gave everything I had to the Army, always figuring they would take care of me when it came time to...and I was wrong" This is a man who loved the Army life, always tried to live overseas, who is wealthy now, and who really gave up his family for the service.....

Rant off..

Essayons

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:26:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:42:18 AM EDT
Vets deserve nothing but the best.

These people risked their lives for you and me, and what does the government do? Bends them over and makes them a government bitch.

If anybody, if ANYBODY, deserves the best treatment it's our vets.

Sha nay nay or Kimbobwei the illegal immigrant do NOT deserve food stamps and other fucking ENTITLEMENTS! Give my tax dollars to a VET.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:20:55 PM EDT
I called him an Asshat because the way the whole conversation went. The active Army nor I, have any authority to do anything about conditions at a VA center nor is the Army or myself responsible. He vented his anger at someone (me)who has no power to fix his problem. Soldiers are not to blame for the treatment of personnel in the VA system. And that is the incinuation he made with his speach, mannerism, and body language.

I too have heard horror stories of the treatment of former servicemen by the VA but what does that have to do with me or the Army or the ROTC program. NOTHING!

Any of you who have issues with the VA and are showing anger towards me in your posts, are doing the same thing as he did. Venting at me instead of someone who can address the issue. I'm not defending the VA system in any way, shape or form, so what's with all the hostilitiy?

And his poor treatment by the VA does not give him the right to rude to me.

I have been to a few VFWs and I will not join because all I heard while I was there was complaints about the government, the VA, the state and everything under the sun. I did not have a positive experience at the VFW. This is not an indictment of VFWs, just my experience.

Sorry I hit such a sore spot with some of you, but I did not deserve that mans anger and I don't deserve yours.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 4:38:32 PM EDT
If my dad had continued going to the VA, he would have died about 6 months ago. They string you along just long enough for you to die so that they can save on the treatment that would have kept you alive.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:26:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 5:30:08 PM EDT by C-4]
Having had a good portion of my training at a VA hospital for my 5 years of residency, I can confirm that the official VA policy is to give the absolute worst care possible. We were actually paid a bonus at the end of the month for every patient we managed to secretly euthanize. I made a killing during my ICU rotations.

Some of you need to get a clue. You allow the gov't to run healthcare for Vets and then are genuinely shocked that the care is shitty. What the fuck were you expecting??? It's Socialized medicine at its worst. It is only rivaled by the shitty health care I experienced/witnessed in Canada.

Liquidate VA hospitals. Give every Vet an insurance card and allow them to see whoever they want.

I still see quite a few Veterans in my practice since I'm the only specialist in the area and the VA gives Vets permission to see me because of the significant distance to the nearest VA hospital.

That Vet showed TANGOCHASER disrespect. If he had a problem with his care at the VA hospital then take it to the politicians. Leave TANGOCHASER out of it.

ETA:

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
And his poor treatment by the VA does not give him the right to rude to me.



+1 I was typing my response and hadn't read yours yet.


Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:32:51 PM EDT
I can honestly say I've never had any problem with te VA centers. I've been out for a few years on a 40% disabiltiy rating (Service connected) and I've had no trouble getting my pain killers, phys Ther. or anything else.

Although I've heard a great deal of bad things about other places but I guess I lucked out.. I haven't checked since I'v moved though.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:36:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 5:37:52 PM EDT by C-4]

Originally Posted By Seneca-Cayuga:
If my dad had continued going to the VA, he would have died about 6 months ago. They string you along just long enough for you to die so that they can save on the treatment that would have kept you alive.



Thank you. You have just defined Socialized Medicine.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:40:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 5:57:50 PM EDT by mobius]
VA hospital........screw that, you would be better off getting treated by a witch doctor. a few people I know of asked me about joining up, I told them, if you want to be treated like some third class citizen, after being injured or wounded for your country then by all means join up. illegal immigrants are treated better for health care, then people that have served their country. I opted for tricare prime to have my service connected injuries treated at the CLEVELAND CLINC, then at the butcher shop called the VA hospital........of course if you served less then 20 years and didn't retire for getting that option, you are screwed, blued and tattoed for having your service connected injury taken care of.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:42:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:44:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mobius:
VA hospital........screw that, you would be better off getting treated by a witch doctor. a few people I know of asked me about joining up, I told them, if you want to be treated like some third class citizen, after being injured or wounded for your country then by all means join up. illegal immigrants are treated better for health care, then people that have served their country.



all this but apparently (according to your post) you've never been there....
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:50:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:

I have been to a few VFWs and I will not join because all I heard while I was there was complaints about the government, the VA, the state and everything under the sun. I did not have a positive experience at the VFW. This is not an indictment of VFWs, just my experience.



Maybe you ought to take a look at what was said, from guys who have BEEN THERE!! You went to lunch, "to be seen". As in "Fly the Colors"?? Looking for recruits?? Maybe you need the "rest of the story"....


Sorry I hit such a sore spot with some of you, but I did not deserve that mans anger and I don't deserve yours.


You sure do........

'fer the "asshat" comment, when you admittidly know nothing about the VA system, and what Combat vets have to go through to get what they were promised by .gov,(the people), for their Service.

Take him up, go for a visit. Lots of blast/burn injuries to be seen.

Maybe he'll take you to visit His Brother!!!

OPEN YOUR EYES....
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:53:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 5:56:25 PM EDT by mobius]

Originally Posted By Snaps:

Originally Posted By mobius:
VA hospital........screw that, you would be better off getting treated by a witch doctor. a few people I know of asked me about joining up, I told them, if you want to be treated like some third class citizen, after being injured or wounded for your country then by all means join up. illegal immigrants are treated better for health care, then people that have served their country.



all this but apparently (according to your post) you've never been there....



I went to the cleveland VA for 4 years, for all the broken parts I have in 20 years of service, my medical records is as thick as WAR AND PEACE......and of those time I even got a appointment, I got some ass quack that didn't speak english, had no clue what he was doing, and his remedy was to dipense a bag full of pills and told me "this should be OK" with no follow up.

the fact is that once you are out, they just shit on you, and could give a care less........to them you are just a used up asset that is bothersome.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:55:39 PM EDT
Agreed, the Goverment has treated our Vets terribly. Post Office employees have better benefits than World War Two Aces. His attitude may have been unnecessarily abraisive, but his point is well taken.

myit
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:08:10 PM EDT
Watch the movie Article 99, shows how things are FUBAR with the VA. They just built a nice new VA hosp. in Baltimore and I wont' go there, don't want to die waiting to get looked at. Most americans could give a rats ass about us Veterans, as long as they are fat, dumb and happy screw the rest of the world.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:11:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GAU5-A-A:


ASSHAT?


Buddy, if you ever frequent a veterans club, I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself, for your own well-being.


America’s VA treats thousands of disabled veterans like pieces of garbage. Every day.


why DON’T you show recruits the results of typical VA treatments?





GAU5-A-A:, please hit my "user info" button. If you need assistance, IM me your phone #, and a time to call you on Saturday......

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:12:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mobius:


the fact is that once you are out, they just shit on you, and could give a care less........to them you are just a used up asset that is bothersome.


I've had the complete opposite.... My dad goes to the same place I've gone and he's never had a problem... Maybe I lucked out or maybe you picked theworst possible one... I dunno.

Infact when I needed a follow up surgery to a existing condition I was sent to a university hospital with an outstanding medical program.. I couldn't be happier with the treatment I've gotten if I tried.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:18:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 6:21:18 PM EDT by Tromatic]
I guess I am the exception. I have had nothing but superb care from the VA, and the Portland VA Medical Center. From my visits to the doc, and my experience as a work study in a vets service organization for several years I can say with a bit of confidence that the ones who bitch the most are fucktards. Some of my fellow vets are some of the greediest bastards I've ever met.

The VA does have problems, mostly brought to you by our elected offals.

Here is the breakdown:

WWII: Iron men who are fading fast.

Korea: Iron men with gray hair who never complain about ANYTHING. You have to pull teeth to get them to talk about or ask for help for service connected injuries. When I was at the dedication of the Korean war memorial in DC, I could not believe how hard-corps, dedicated and patriotic these men and women were. Especially my fellow Marines, many of whom were drafted.

Viet Nam: Lots of fucked up people who blame everything on Uncle. On the other hand, lots of fucked up people who get squat from Uncle.

What irks me is the "vet" with 15 minutes of service who is on a full boat ride for life because his DI hurt his feelings and complains it's not enough, while the guy with the AK holes in his ass get the "Not service connected" letter.

Not perfect, but nothing is. Take your students to the VA. For every whining asshole, you will find ten motivated, dedicated and caring people.

Matthew

ETA: Hmm. Read a few posts done while I did mine. Guess I'll take some shit, but what the heck. Merely my opinion.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 3:07:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2005 3:10:24 AM EDT by TANGOCHASER]
Originally posted by Liberty86


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry I hit such a sore spot with some of you, but I did not deserve that mans anger and I don't deserve yours.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You sure do........

'fer the "asshat" comment, when you admittidly know nothing about the VA system, and what Combat vets have to go through to get what they were promised by .gov,(the people), for their Service.

Take him up, go for a visit. Lots of blast/burn injuries to be seen.

Maybe he'll take you to visit His Brother!!!

OPEN YOUR EYES....



I say again. He's an asshat for bitching to me about his problems with the VA system, in a rude and sarcastic manner. He's not an asshat because of the trouble he has with the VA. I did nothing to deserve a verbal attack from this individual. None of us know if he is a vet or just some wacko with an opinion. You are making assumptions here based on no information. OPEN YOUR EYE'S....

When I leave the service, regardless of my medical condition, I will not bitch about the Army, the government or the VA. I volunteered for this job knowing full well, all the risks involved.

I'm not defending myself anymore as I have nothing to defend. TangoChaser out.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 6:37:56 AM EDT
GAU5-A-A:

You apparently have your profile set to NOT recieve IM's, (that's the system message I got)...I just got yours, will call today, (sunday).....
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 6:49:37 AM EDT
I made a xerox copy of my medical file before I separated, and I still have it.

Patients carried their records to the doc's visit, so I just checked them out one day and no one at the hospital was wiser.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 6:55:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:

I too have heard horror stories of the treatment of former servicemen by the VA but what does that have to do with me or the Army or the ROTC program. NOTHING!



Wrong ...wrong wrong wrong wrong.

YOU have a DUTY to inform potential soldiers and officers what their BENEFITS are. This is one of them. Typical recruiter ROTC BS. I went thru the program so I do know. Often they don't tell you what you need to know...but instead must learn elsewhere. I had some good officers I could talk to and of course my dad was a veteran of Army service from 1949-79 (starting as a private and ending as a LTC).

Many times the people who sign up for ROTC have NO relatives/friends to speak with about the service and so are dependent upon the CADRE to tell them what they need and help prepare for the service.

Again, its your DUTY to tell them all the BENEFITS, not just the rose-colored ones. Maybe he didn't approach you in the RIGHT manner but to tell the truth...would you have LISTENED to him if he had???? You brought the issue to this forum so obviously it disturbed you and now you don't like the answers.

Essayons
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 7:04:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2005 7:13:45 AM EDT by TANGOCHASER]
Wrong!

My responsibilities are to teach officership and individual skills that will keep them alive in a combat zone as most of them will end up in combat after commissioning (Train as you Fight). We do address VA benefits but are not responsible for addressing conditions at VA centers. The benefit is the use of VA centers or military hospitals on a space available basis. There is nothing negative with those benefits. As you have read in other posts here the conditions of VA centers varies from outstanding to "I wouldn't take my dog there".

There is no recruiter BS going on. I know my responsibilities better than you.

Have a nice day.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 7:14:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2005 8:10:43 AM EDT by FordGuy]

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
I'm the senior military science instructor at the ROTC dept at Minnesota State University in Mankato. I went to the student union yesterday to get lunch and "just be seen on campus". This guy sitting next to me keeps stairing at me and finally asks if I'm from ROTC.

He asks me if we ever take our "recruits" to tour a VA center. I tell him no and and he stands up, gets all red faced and pissed. He blurts out "You need to show them how they will be treated after they leave the Army". The he grabs his stuff and stomps out the door.

What an asshat.



Brother, call him an asshat after you've walked in his shoes. let it rest.

Edit: now I've read all the replies - I figured I'd be the lone dissenter amoung a million "+1" type replies. Perhaps you thought you'd evoke some sort of AR15 "fire mission" in your defense....Interesting. by the way, I have a similar background, just at an OCS, not an ROTC program. Your comment about not deserving his anger confuses me.....you don't hold that position to deserve anything...you serve the United States and the Commander in Chief. You Serve, not deserve. If you can't take comments like his and let it roll off your back without coming to an internet site for reassurance you need a vacation.

One more edited comment from me - take a deep breath and relax! Thanks for your service. And I hope you never really have to find out just how tough VA help can be...and I'm serious about the vacation...everyone need sone now and then...
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 7:23:10 AM EDT
I'm trying to but the vets that have been mistreated at VA centers keep expressing their opinions that I'm the bad guy here.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 8:00:34 AM EDT
Veterans,

Allow me to preface by saying that I appreciate your service to this country immensely. I cannot stress that enough.

Having said that, I think some members who partcicpated in this discussion are venting their understandable frustration with the VA at the wrong guy.

Just my two cents.

Thank you and God bless you all.

Respectfully,

Justin
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 8:16:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By Seneca-Cayuga:
If my dad had continued going to the VA, he would have died about 6 months ago. They string you along just long enough for you to die so that they can save on the treatment that would have kept you alive.



Thank you. You have just defined Socialized Medicine.



Exactly so think about this the next time you bitch about healthcare. You guys have NO idea how bad it can get.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 10:15:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
I'm the senior military science instructor at the ROTC dept at Minnesota State University in Mankato. I went to the student union yesterday to get lunch and "just be seen on campus". This guy sitting next to me keeps stairing at me and finally asks if I'm from ROTC.

He asks me if we ever take our "recruits" to tour a VA center. I tell him no and and he stands up, gets all red faced and pissed. He blurts out "You need to show them how they will be treated after they leave the Army". The he grabs his stuff and stomps out the door.

What an asshat.



I think the majority of the people replying to this post have gone way out on a limb by assuming that the fucktard bitching at a Soldier about the VA is a veteran at all.

One of the most popular strategies used by the hand wringing, teary eyed anti-war element is to shrilly claim that they "support the troops" but then oppose the war because it "victimizes" the troops wha aren't men but "boys". You guys assume the asshat was a veteran, but maybe he was just an other anti-war college liberal trying to claim he supports the troops by portraying them as hapless victims of an uncaring .gov machine.
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