Walked into the camera shop with the intention of ugrading from the 350D to the 20D and found myself walking out with the 5D.  Still in a bit of sticker shock ($3100 for the body) but looking forward to getting out and about with the camera this weekend.

Camera stores are almost as bad as gunshops.

Not that I'll be upgrading from my 20d anytime soon, but let us all know how you like it!

so tell me why you bought the 5D....

It's such a niche camera

Quoted: so tell me why you bought the 5D.... It's such a niche camera

Why would you consider it a niche camera?

Quoted: Quoted: so tell me why you bought the 5D.... It's such a niche camera Why would you consider it a niche camera?

Because so few photographers have a need for a full frame sensor.

And at that price point, that camera is lacking in most of the features that pros want.

People who use dSLR cameras use crop instead of full frame because they have no choice. The viewfinder on the 5D is orders of magnitude beyond any crop frame camera. Shooting indoors for portraits, head shots, or even just snapshots is easier with the full frame camera; my 50mm lens behaves like a 50 mm lens, not an 80mm.

The 5D has significantly better noise handling capabilities than just about any camera in Canon's current lineup. Shots at ISO 3200 from the 5D look like shots at ISO 800 from the 20D. Idependent tests have shown high ISO quality to be better than the 1D Mk2 (newer technology seems to be the issue).

Adjusting the ISO, with a range from 50 to 3200, to suit the situation is a big advantage.

Image quality just blows away the 20D. Period.

20D shoots faster (5 fps vs 3 fps), but the 5D has a RAW buffer of 17 frames vs 6 for the 20D. I don't shoot auto racing or sports, so the buffer depth is more important than the fps.

Is the 5D expensive? Yes, but not anywhere near as expensive as any other full frame or 1.3x crop professional camera. Would I have upgraded if I had a 20D? I can't answer that question.

Is it a niche camera? Absolutely not.

hey, whatever works for you.

I do this for a living and I haven't seen anybody shooting a 5d yet. Granted, I don't shoot in a studio.

I just don't expect canon to sell many at this price point until they add some 1D features and construction. No environmentaal seals? No integrated battery grip?

My local dealer, who sells mainly to pros, sold out his initial delivery of 40 cameras on Friday and has a waiting list for 100+ more. While I have a number of photos published (and paid for)I would not consider myself a pro, since I don't do this for a living, just for a hobby. I think that for the pro marketspace, this is a backup body, unless their primary use is shooting weddings or similar events, in which case the 5D lets them get the most from their wide angle lenses. For sports/news photogs, I would think that the 1DS line will continue to be the camera of choice, but a $3K backup body is easier to swallow than buying two $8k camera bodies.

But as you say, whatever floats your boat.

Be sure to post pics of how it shoots.

12.8MPs, right? I'm jealous

I bought mine yesterday.  

As for NovaGator's question, I think perhaps you aren't familiar with the camera.
First of all, most photographers do WANT full frame.  It's simply been too expensive till now.  Not only is it important for wide-angle landscapes, but it produces a different DOF than a cropped sensor as well.
Second, and most important for me, the camera produces large enough picture files for big enlargements.  I like to mount landscapes on my wall, and so far 16x20 is about as large as I have been able to keep sharp.  I want the ability to go larger, and so do many other photographers.
Third, the 5D has many features that the 20D, 10D, Rebel, etc... did not have, such as a HUGE buffer---you can take 17 RAW pictures (and those are significantly larger RAW files than the 10D or 20D takes) before the buffer has to unload to the memory card.

But the main reason is picture quality.  There is only one other camera in Canon's lineup that takes higher quality pictures than the 5D, and that camera costs $8000.

Quoted: I just don't expect canon to sell many at this price point until they add some 1D features and construction.

You expect wrong.  They are already selling faster than the dealers can get them in.

Any pics from anyone? I'm curious too see what this baby can do.

I simply feel that the 1D Mk II is a far better camera for my needs and the majority of needs of working photographers at this price point.

Quoted: I simply feel that the 1D Mk II is a far better camera for my needs and the majority of needs of working photographers at this price point.

Sorry, but that's not realistic.  The 1D MkII is a sports camera.  It's specialized and if anything is a "niche camera" it's the 1D Mk II.  The 5D's picture quality blows the 1D MkII away...it's on a par with the 1Ds MkII.  For wedding photographers, studio photographers and landscape photographers, the 5D makes much more sense than the 1D MkII.  

Quoted: Any pics from anyone? I'm curious too see what this baby can do.

Gimme some time!  I just bought the damn thing!  
Seriously, I've taken some test shots, but nothing worth showing here.  I am going out west Saturday after next, I will get some keepers then.

Quoted: Quoted: Any pics from anyone? I'm curious too see what this baby can do. Gimme some time!  I just bought the damn thing!   Seriously, I've taken some test shots, but nothing worth showing here.  I am going out west Saturday after next, I will get some keepers then.

I'm living through your camera purchase vicariously

I'll buy your 20D off of you for $100.

($3100 for the body)

wow!

Quoted: Quoted: Any pics from anyone? I'm curious too see what this baby can do. Gimme some time!  I just bought the damn thing!   Seriously, I've taken some test shots, but nothing worth showing here.  I am going out west Saturday after next, I will get some keepers then.

THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!!!!

PICTURES.......   NNNNOOOOWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!



$3100 huh?   I think my wife might get pissed if I bought one before I replaced her wrecked car.  Can't they thow us married guys that spend too much on toys a bone and  make it silver like my 350D so she wouldn't notice?  I mean all the gun makers are smart enough to let us buy guns that are all black.  She never can keep track of my rifles but a new black camera she will notice

I really haven't had time to take the camera out but here's a pic I took of my son yesterday.  It seemed to be a good image of a boy about to become a teen.

5D, 85mm f1.8, @ f1.8 1/16sec, ISO 125 Severe compression to keep the file size down for the web



(The bokeh with the 85mm f1.8 is pretty damn amazing to me and much more noticible on this body than it was on my 350D)

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Any pics from anyone? I'm curious too see what this baby can do. Gimme some time!  I just bought the damn thing!   Seriously, I've taken some test shots, but nothing worth showing here.  I am going out west Saturday after next, I will get some keepers then. I'm living through your camera purchase vicariously I'll buy your 20D off of you for $100.

It sold the same day I bought the 5D.  

Quoted: ($3100 for the body) wow!

Just to give you some context (body only):

Canon 350D                8MP                          $789
Canon 20D                  8.2MP                       $1299
Canon 5D                    12.8MP                     $3299*
Canon 1D Mark II         8.2MP                      $3849
Canon 1D Mark II N      8.2MP                      $3999
Canon 1DS Mark II       16.7MP                    $7395*

The * bodies are full frame, the others are either 1.6x or 1.3x crop.

           

Quoted: hey, whatever works for you. I do this for a living and I haven't seen anybody shooting a 5d yet.

I just noticed this.  The camera has only been out for like two weeks.  It's not surprising you haven't seen anyone shooting with it yet...

Quoted: I really haven't had time to take the camera out but here's a pic I took of my son yesterday.  It seemed to be a good image of a boy about to become a teen. 5D, 85mm f1.8, @ f1.8 1/16sec, ISO 125 Severe compression to keep the file size down for the web www.supercharger.net/pictures/alexphone.jpg (The bokeh with the 85mm f1.8 is pretty damn amazing to me and much more noticible on this body than it was on my 350D)

Looks good. Nice DOF and what not

FINALLY took my 5D out for a bit today.  The light sucked, but after a week of rain, I took the chance to shoot SOMETHING with it.
Take these for what they are worth:  not great pics, because the light sucked, but just a couple samples to give some idea of the camera's capabilities.

Quoted: hey, whatever works for you. I do this for a living and I haven't seen anybody shooting a 5d yet. Granted, I don't shoot in a studio. I just don't expect canon to sell many at this price point until they add some 1D features and construction. No environmentaal seals? No integrated battery grip?

You are a photog and you don't see the value of a FF sensor??!!  How about DoF, true wide angle photos, making your 15mm fisheye relevant again, plus high resolution with large pixels (less noise) to boot?  Not everyone needs FF but to not know it's value when you "do it for a living" is talking out of your ass.

And Canon will have no problem selling them at that price point.  They are just now meeting demand for the 1DsII (after a year).  I had to scratch and claw to get my 1DsII when it came out.  Demand for the 5D appears to be even greater.  It's darn cheap relatively speaking, many photogs with 1DsIIs (including myself) are getting them as backups.

Quoted: Quoted: hey, whatever works for you. I do this for a living and I haven't seen anybody shooting a 5d yet. Granted, I don't shoot in a studio. I just don't expect canon to sell many at this price point until they add some 1D features and construction. No environmentaal seals? No integrated battery grip? You are a photog and you don't see the value of a FF sensor??!!  How about DoF, true wide angle photos, making your 15mm fisheye relevant again, plus high resolution with large pixels (less noise) to boot?  Not everyone needs FF but to not know it's value when you "do it for a living" is talking out of your ass. And Canon will have no problem selling them at that price point.  They are just now meeting demand for the 1DsII (after a year).  I had to scratch and claw to get my 1DsII when it came out.  Demand for the 5D appears to be even greater.  It's darn cheap relatively speaking, many photogs with 1DsIIs (including myself) are getting them as backups.

My only point is that I don't understand why many would choose this over the MkII. I know I wouldn't.

Quoted: My only point is that I don't understand why many would choose this over the MkII. I know I wouldn't.

The 1DMKII or the 1DsMKII?

Quoted: Quoted: My only point is that I don't understand why many would choose this over the MkII. I know I wouldn't. The 1DMKII or the 1DsMKII?

Not sure what's so dificult to understand for gator, either way...

Over 1DII - Full Frame (big plus), smaller, more megapixels
Over 1DsII - Price ($4K less), smaller

Full frame is huge, people have been waiting forever for a good affordable FF Digital SLR to come out.  Until now, the options (in 35mm format) were the 1Ds series (~$8K when they were launched), the Kodak 14x series (sucked big time), or the Contax N (vaporware).  Size is a big one for me since I travel a lot.  One 1DsII is bad enough, carrying around another one for backup would break the back (and the bank)!  As I said, it's not for everyone but anyone who thinks it's a "niche camera" obviously doesn't know what they are talking about.

Yeah, I clearly don't know what I'm talking about.  

My sole source of income is from photography, any I make far more than your typical photographer. I'm not an artist, I'm a businessman. My company photographs about 600 income-producing events annually and provides back-end ASP service for about 2500 other photogrpahed events.

Perhaps I used the wrong word when I said "niche."

But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the 5D will not be a popular as the MkII ("regular" not "s") among "working photographers"

At a price point of about $3500, it is lacking in features that help a camera survive the rigors of  the real world. And who wants to carry a back up that uses different batteries? And has a wobbly battey grip? BTW Canon, a FF snesor might need more than 9 AF points.

When the camera was announced, the 3 senior people in my company that make the calls re: buying gear (myself included) scratched our heads and wondered what Canon was thinking by pairing a FF sensor with 20D features at a 1D price. It's like putting a Corvette engine in Cobalt sheetmetal.

Maybe we were wrong....but I don't think so.

I guess it depends upon your definition of working photographer.  A friend of mine owns one of the biggest wedding photography businesses in the area. Any given weekend he has 6-10 different shoots going on. He tells me that the 5D is exactly what his people need; the FF sensor means that they will be able to compose wide shots more easily, and the deep buffer means they are unlikely to miss shots (they shoot completely in RAW); additional MP means bigger and higher quality prints can be offered to his customers.

He plans on standardizing in the 5D and has ordered enough additional half dozen bodies to equip all his guys with the camera and a backup. It gets summed up like this; he switched from film to digital a few years back despite the compromises he had to make to accomodate cropped sensors and print size limitations. He feels the 5D will give him the flexibility he had with FF film cameras plus the advantages of digital.

This probably wouldn't be the case if he was doing news or sports photgraphy; in that case the higher FPS and weather sealing offered by the 1DMkIIN would be the defining factors, and the crop factor is an advantage. But for his very successful and professional wedding/event photography business, the 5D makes a lot of sense.

Quoted: Yeah, I clearly don't know what I'm talking about.   My sole source of income is from photography, any I make far more than your typical photographer. I'm not an artist, I'm a businessman. My company photographs about 600 income-producing events annually and provides back-end ASP service for about 2500 other photogrpahed events. Perhaps I used the wrong word when I said "niche." But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the 5D will not be a popular as the MkII ("regular" not "s") among "working photographers" At a price point of about $3500, it is lacking in features that help a camera survive the rigors of  the real world. And who wants to carry a back up that uses different batteries? And has a wobbly battey grip? BTW Canon, a FF snesor might need more than 9 AF points. When the camera was announced, the 3 senior people in my company that make the calls re: buying gear (myself included) scratched our heads and wondered what Canon was thinking by pairing a FF sensor with 20D features at a 1D price. It's like putting a Corvette engine in Cobalt sheetmetal. Maybe we were wrong....but I don't think so.

Facts have already proven you wrong:  the camera is selling faster than they can bring them in.
YOU may not understand the market for it because it doesn't meet your needs, but you're suffering from the same tunnel-vision many professionals do in every field:  if it isn't the way WE do it, it must be wrong.  Your needs aren't universal.  Studio photographers and wedding photographers are flocking to this camera.  So are advanced hobbyists who do landscape photography.

ETA:  And btw, you should consider the market for the 1D II.  Who is it good for?  Photojournalists and event photographers.  That's it.  The 20D has more pixel density in a MUCH cheaper package, and is fine for anyone who doesn't need the weather sealing and professional build (ie doesn't take 10,000 pics a week/month).  I know several wedding photographers who are right now using the 10D or 20D who couldn't afford a 1DsMKII who will jump all over the 5D.

Well, I guess we can agree that the 20D is a excellent camera at the price point.

We're primarily buying those. They're the best price/performance ratio camera available, and the shutter lasts as long as the 1D.

I have two 20Ds that have 100,000+ shutter actuations already with no issues.

Quoted: Yeah, I clearly don't know what I'm talking about.   My sole source of income is from photography, any I make far more than your typical photographer. I'm not an artist, I'm a businessman. My company photographs about 600 income-producing events annually and provides back-end ASP service for about 2500 other photogrpahed events.

Running a photo service doesn't mean squat.  How much time do you spend behind the desk vs the camera?  If you have spent any amount of time behind the camera or else these things we’re discussing would be self evident.

Perhaps I used the wrong word when I said "niche." But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the 5D will not be a popular as the MkII ("regular" not "s") among "working photographers"

Who said it should be?  It's not even targeted for the same customer base (although there is overlap as with all the models)! That's the whole purpose of having a tiered product portfolio  The 5D addresses the gap between the pro 1Dx and consumer/prosumer 20Ds.  A role that the EOS3 played during the film days.  If you read the ARFCOMs of the photo world (dpreview, photo.net), you'd realize people have been screaming for such a camera before it was even rumored.

At a price point of about $3500, it is lacking in features that help a camera survive the rigors of  the real world.

What is the real world to you gator?  I do travel and assignment photography.  I've been in -40F weather in the Canadian arctic, had my gear soaked with waterfall mist in SE Asia, dropped in a river in Mexico, drenched by sea spray in Havana, and that was with my A2E which is about as un-ruggedized as Canon makes them.  National Geographic's Nick Nichols has put his non 1 series cameras through far worse.  The only people that believe you need 1000 o-rings and seals are the people whose knowledge of how equipment performs comes from product brochures and hearsay.  The same consumers who think they need a hummer to go camping in the mountains.  Arguably the greatest adventure photographer was Galen Rowell, he used the "second tier" N90 and F100 over the F4 or F5 even though they were not as rugged.  Why?  Because of size and weight.  Same can be said for Steve McCurry who used N90s to shoot his “Monsoon” series in India.  A recent issue of NG was shot with a 20D in not so nice environment (forget the name of the photographer).  I guarantee their "real world" is more real than 99.9% of those who will buy a 1Dx or 5D.  That's not to say the durability of the 1 series cameras is not without merit (it was a plus when I bought mine), but to say you NEED that level of construction for the "real world" is again, talking out of your ass.

And who wants to carry a back up that uses different batteries?

Considering that the 5D's Li Ion battery and charger are about the same size and weight (combined) as the NP-E3 that the 1D series cameras use, it's not an issue.  Plus you can do parallel charging (the NC-E2 has 2 leads but actually only charges the batts one at a time).

And has a wobbly battey grip? BTW Canon, a FF snesor might need more than 9 AF points.

This one takes the cake.


What does the # of AF points have to do with format?  Do you have a clue as to what you are talking about?  How much of a difference do you think 45 vs 9 AF points makes?  How many AF points are do Leicas which many top pros sill use have?  How many AF points are on those MF cameras people put their $30000 digital backs on?  I’ve never met a REAL photographer that has the # AF points as a critical or even significant feature.  I've never missed the 45 AF points on my 1DsII when I shoot with a 20D.  Actually I like how it's easier to select AF points on the 20D.

When the camera was announced, the 3 senior people in my company that make the calls re: buying gear (myself included) scratched our heads and wondered what Canon was thinking by pairing a FF sensor with 20D features at a 1D price. It's like putting a Corvette engine in Cobalt sheetmetal. Maybe we were wrong....but I don't think so.

Well it wasn’t designed for the party pix shooters or other arenas where image quality is not as critical.  Hell, you could use a dRebel for that.  A good way to guage interest of a camera is to check it’s click rate on dpreview.com (the most popular site for DSLRs).  The 5D is #2 and has been near the top since it was announced.  It may not be relevant in your microcosm, but that means nothing in the “real world.”

ok, you win

you're the man

Either of you can feel free to send me a copy of the 1Dsmk2 and 5D for my evaluation.  Until then, STFU and go play with your lenses in a dark corner, geez.....

Quoted: multiple paragraphs of bashing NoVaGator and his views of the 5D

I don't know you from adam, dukesnookems.  I do know NoVaGator.  He spends quite a bit of time behind a camera, as well as at a desk, in addition to being a pretty decent guy.

Did it ever occur to you that there are different types of photography?  And that features important to one may not be important to another?  And that maybe, just maybe, that for NoVaGator and others, the features offered with the 5D do not justify the price, while for others like you and your wedding photographer friend, it does?

I shoot primarily sports.  Wide angle doesn't particularly help me a whole lot.  FF doesn't particularly help me a whole lot -- while it'd certaintly be nice, and everything else being equal, I'd pick a full-frame sensor in about a half second, to me, a full-frame sensor being added to 20D capabilities does not justify (again, to me) the price.  I agree they're nice cameras, but for what I do, it offers few advantages, several disadvantages, and a price that I am not willing to pay.

The market, right now, is showing a huge demand for them.  Part of that is the "ooooh shiney new camera from Canon, I want one" crowd who would buy just about anything brand new from canon just to be able to say they have one.  Then you have the "more megapixels = better" and otherwise clueless crowd, who will buy one just because of the megapixel count.  Then you have the (large) group of wedding, portrait, and other studio photographers who feel the FF sensor justifies the price.

To sit there and claim that because one doesn't see the need for the 5D in one's business that one is full of horse dung is more than a little self-centered.  Again, multiple forms of photography, with multiple needs.  One would not suggest using a ball peen hammer to drive a railroad spike.  Or a .22LR for hunting elephant.  Just because something is capable of doing it, doesn't mean its the best tool for the job.  This is just as true of cameras as anything else.



Sorry I rambled on a bit --its been a 32 hour day, and I'm going to finally get some sleep.

Quoted: Either of you can feel free to send me a copy of the 1Dsmk2 and 5D for my evaluation.  Until then, STFU and go play with your lenses in a dark corner, geez.....

 Of course, to properly test the cameras I'll also need a selection of quality Canon lenses, so please include them with my test cameras.  I wouldn't want to bias my review

Hey!

I started this thread so if anybody is getting free equipment, it had better be me

Quoted: Did it ever occur to you that there are different types of photography?  And that features important to one may not be important to another?  And that maybe, just maybe, that for NoVaGator and others, the features offered with the 5D do not justify the price, while for others like you and your wedding photographer friend, it does?

Please read the thread Fan, your point "that there are different types of photography?  And that features important to one may not be important to another?" is EXACTLY what myself (and others) have been arguing.  Yeah, Gator seems like a decent guy, I'm taking issue with how he seems to believe since he doesn't have a use for a 5D, nobody else would.  Using your analogy below, gator's argument would be like a varmint shooter questioning why anybody would buy a 7mm since he's never needed one before and 223s are much cheaper.

I shoot primarily sports.  Wide angle doesn't particularly help me a whole lot.  FF doesn't particularly help me a whole lot -- while it'd certaintly be nice, and everything else being equal, I'd pick a full-frame sensor in about a half second, to me, a full-frame sensor being added to 20D capabilities does not justify (again, to me) the price.  I agree they're nice cameras, but for what I do, it offers few advantages, several disadvantages, and a price that I am not willing to pay.

Precisely, this is YOUR assessment and I don't disagree with it at all.  As I said, FF is not for everyone.  My point is:  just because there isn't a need for it in gator's microcosm doesn't mean there isn't a need in the much larger world of photography including fashion, PJ, studio, travel, and even some sports (Sports Illustrated uses some 1DsIIs in addition to the 1DIIs), and other types of photography .  Remember the part you wrote about "that there are different types of photography"?

The market, right now, is showing a huge demand for them.  Part of that is the "ooooh shiney new camera from Canon, I want one" crowd who would buy just about anything brand new from canon just to be able to say they have one.  Then you have the "more megapixels = better" and otherwise clueless crowd, who will buy one just because of the megapixel count.  Then you have the (large) group of wedding, portrait, and other studio photographers who feel the FF sensor justifies the price.

I agree

To sit there and claim that because one doesn't see the need for the 5D in one's business that one is full of horse dung is more than a little self-centered.

Never said anything even remotely close.  Read the thread again and you'll see I was saying the opposite when I mentioned you could even use a digital Rebel for event photography which is what appears to be gator's business - different tools for different jobs.  Nobody ever said gator should see the need in HIS business, but that the 5D serves a purpose that may be outside of his needs whether he sees it or not.  

Again, multiple forms of photography, with multiple needs.  One would not suggest using a ball peen hammer to drive a railroad spike.  Or a .22LR for hunting elephant.  Just because something is capable of doing it, doesn't mean its the best tool for the job.  This is just as true of cameras as anything else.

I agree 100%!!  Again, this is the argument that I (and others) have been making.

well, I wasn't going to post in this thread again....

but i'll reiterate.....this camera will appeal (meaning actually sell) to fewer professional photographers than the 1d MkII or even the 20D does.

There is no doubt in mind about that.

Do I understand the benefit of FF? Of course.
Do I realize that a large number of photographers have wanted cheaper FF digital? of course.
Do I think Canon has a great product on their hands here? Not even close.

You want a great product? Put a FF sensor in a 1D body, strip out the environmental seals, dumb down some of the bells and whistles (hell make it fully manual), and sell it for the same price as the MkII.

Basically make a 1DsMkII "lite" instead of a 10D "royale"

Quoted: well, I wasn't going to post in this thread again.... but i'll reiterate.....this camera will appeal (meaning actually sell) to fewer professional photographers than the 1d MkII or even the 20D does. There is no doubt in mind about that.

I've no doubt you're wrong.  Perhaps the 1DMKII will top it, since photojournalists use it, but 20Ds?  No, if anything the 5D will cut the number of professionals using 20Ds to a fraction, particularly wedding photographers.

If anyone is still interested in seeing pictures from the camera, I posted a bunch in this thread. There are also links to full size versions of each image, though not the RAW files.