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Posted: 5/2/2009 6:01:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2009 6:08:28 PM EDT by PantherArms762]
My wife and I were discussin on the way to dinner, why society has evolved, or possibly devolved, (depending on how you see it) in controlling our desires and retaining some level of morality. Parenting has gone downhill, drug use and alcohol abuse is through the roof, greed and corruption are rampant in every facet of our daily lives from government to police forces in towns large and small. Kids rule the home in most suburban and parents seem to want to be more friends than parents.

I say its because as society evolves, peoples lives become more cushy and boring. Sometimes we forget that we are still biological beings with insticts. As we cocoon ourselves into comfort and have every possible need met at a moments notice, our instincts wvolve along with it. When we fail to use our instinctual desires for hunting, procreation, and suvival, we overload our instincts for power, money, love, sex, and pleasure.

I don't know, maybe its the Chantix.

What says ARF?
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:07:09 PM EDT
Times have been too good; now the troubles begin and a people who have grown lazy, greedy and self-centered are about to rediscover the pioneer days and how to survive.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:09:36 PM EDT
The want of "stuff" has demanded that both parents work to afford the wii and all the other b.s.

The result is your kid worshiping rappers, playing GTA, and no bonding with the parents. They see the daycare lady as Mom.

Good luck with that


p.s. Chantix week 4 here
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:10:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PantherArms762:
I say its because as society evolves, peoples lives become more cushy and boring. Sometimes we forget that we are still biological beings with insticts. As we cocoon ourselves into comfort and have every possible need met at a moments notice, our instincts wvolve along with it. When we fail to use our instinctual desires for hunting, procreation, and suvival, we overload our instincts for power, money, love, sex, and pleasure.



I think you've got it right there.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:13:14 PM EDT
You are describing the modern American way of life and answering the typical ARF question about why people look to non-Americans for spouses.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:15:08 PM EDT
I'm almost finished reading 'Crime and Punishment'.  You should read some Dostoyevsky - he pretty much touches on all of those themes.

Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:32:53 PM EDT
my humble opinion... kids today ( for a long time really ) have not had to work for things as much. They have the "i deserve" mentality rather than the "if i work for it " mentality that most of us here have grown up with. If you make things easy on your child as they're growing up, then you handicap them for the real world when they do ( hopefully ) grow up.This logic raises a lot of questions as far as what the real world is now and what direction it is headed to. Also they arent taught enough american history or any other history of any other country  for that matter,  that struggled for freedom and all the vets that have paid the ultimate price for freedom for future generations. I think we have deeply disrespected our forefathers  and vets who have fought for a way of life that the young (some, not all, mind you ) generations take for granted. Im just on a rant now so im sure  i'll get flamed... but you can flame away! these are my opinions and we all know what opinions are like.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:38:08 PM EDT
In 500 years historians will look back and see the enlightenment as a temporary anomaly.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:43:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brett1970:
my humble opinion... kids today ( for a long time really ) have not had to work for things as much. They have the "i deserve" mentality rather than the "if i work for it " mentality that most of us here have grown up with. If you make things easy on your child as they're growing up, then you handicap them for the real world when they do ( hopefully ) grow up.This logic raises a lot of questions as far as what the real world is now and what direction it is headed to. Also they arent taught enough american history or any other history of any other country  for that matter,  that struggled for freedom and all the vets that have paid the ultimate price for freedom for future generations. I think we have deeply disrespected our forefathers  and vets who have fought for a way of life that the young (some, not all, mind you ) generations take for granted. Im just on a rant now so im sure  i'll get flamed... but you can flame away! these are my opinions and we all know what opinions are like.


They get stuff because the parents feel guilty and buy them stuff in an attempt to show how much they love them.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:45:31 PM EDT
The Sixties is what happened.  We're still reaping what was sown then.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 7:25:41 PM EDT
I'm inclined to think that disgust with the "modern generation" is a universal theme throughout history.  Something that is profoundly different though is the reduced numbers of 2 parent households.  I would guess this shift started in the 60's. Of course the welfare state has eliminated the need for two parents. Again, this began in the 60's.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 9:32:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By xylo:
I'm inclined to think that disgust with the "modern generation" is a universal theme throughout history.  Something that is profoundly different though is the reduced numbers of 2 parent households.  I would guess this shift started in the 60's. Of course the welfare state has eliminated the need for two parents. Again, this began in the 60's.


But isnt that a symptom of the bigger problem listed above?

Men and women, so self-centered and driven to get more of everything for themselves leaving the home or refusing to stay and sacrifice for the sake of even their own children?
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 9:32:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By paris-dakar:
I'm almost finished reading 'Crime and Punishment'.  You should read some Dostoyevsky - he pretty much touches on all of those themes.



I'll check it out.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 9:47:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2009 9:48:07 PM EDT by boknows20]
To much free time.  ETA: To many people living off of others labor.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 9:55:09 PM EDT
It's the nature of man...to evolve to a point where our wants abundantly exceed our needs, then tumble backwards. It's happened to many kingdoms before us.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 9:58:58 PM EDT
Most people learn the hard way or by seeing others learn the hard way.  Society tries to eliminate the hard way with good intentions, but the long term bad result is that behavior isn't corrected.  Used to be that if you didn't work, you starved, so people took jobs that were "beneath" them.  Used to be that if you had a child out of wedlock, welcome to a life of social ostracism and poverty.  Used to be that if you bought a house you couldn't afford, you lost it and had to move out.  Now, not so much.  The incentive for good behavior is being eliminated.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 10:00:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2009 10:00:57 PM EDT by spectr]
This Chantix you speak of, quit smoking stuff right? I obught some and have never used it, I remember my doctor telling me shit has some bad side effects similiar to serequil?
anyhow FWIW
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 10:01:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2009 10:02:33 PM EDT by odfox]
Suburban areas have done so much damage.  In my opinion, they are the swing vote between urban entitlement mentality and rural self-sufficiency mentality.  They are increasingly siding with the urban entitlement mentality as they work and get educations in urban environments, and feel that someone needs to do something about all the suffering they see on the way to work in their SUV whilst drinking their latte.

I think urban environments lend themselves to the entitlement syndrome...  everything they consume comes from somewhere else, as the production methods there are limited or narrow.  Their entire environment is shaped by some faceless person...  there are too many people to know.

Nobody knows and gets along with their neighbors, their friends are spread all across town as the transient nature of apartment hunting presses people into constant movement.  They feel no community with the people nearby, who could easily help watch the place while they are out of town, or help fix the faucet, or help move some furniture around.  But humans, at the back of their head, need that support network, so they throw everything onto the anonymous government.

I rarely see this entitlement attitude in rural environments, because people suspect they COULD get all the help they need from their neighbors close by.  They see no need for distant government to be involved.

Anyway, I am rambling, hope that adds something to the discussion, if not, uhh, uhh...  I really like my 24" sabre defence ss fluted bull barrel upper.  It is the super neat.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 10:05:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By happycynic:
Most people learn the hard way or by seeing others learn the hard way.  Society tries to eliminate the hard way with good intentions, but the long term bad result is that behavior isn't corrected.  Used to be that if you didn't work, you starved, so people took jobs that were "beneath" them.  Used to be that if you had a child out of wedlock, welcome to a life of social ostracism and poverty.  Used to be that if you bought a house you couldn't afford, you lost it and had to move out.  Now, not so much.  The incentive for good behavior is being eliminated.


Another good point.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 10:21:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2009 10:24:04 PM EDT by masheenhead]
Originally Posted By Silence:
In 500 years historians will look back and see the enlightenment as a temporary anomaly.


In five hundred years history will read like a fairy tale and will not at all be an accurate account of what has taken place. It will be rewritten to shape the future.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 10:30:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By odfox:
Suburban areas have done so much damage.  In my opinion, they are the swing vote between urban entitlement mentality and rural self-sufficiency mentality.  They are increasingly siding with the urban entitlement mentality as they work and get educations in urban environments, and feel that someone needs to do something about all the suffering they see on the way to work in their SUV whilst drinking their latte.

I think urban environments lend themselves to the entitlement syndrome...  everything they consume comes from somewhere else, as the production methods there are limited or narrow.  Their entire environment is shaped by some faceless person...  there are too many people to know.

Nobody knows and gets along with their neighbors, their friends are spread all across town as the transient nature of apartment hunting presses people into constant movement.  They feel no community with the people nearby, who could easily help watch the place while they are out of town, or help fix the faucet, or help move some furniture around.  But humans, at the back of their head, need that support network, so they throw everything onto the anonymous government.

I rarely see this entitlement attitude in rural environments, because people suspect they COULD get all the help they need from their neighbors close by.  They see no need for distant government to be involved.

Anyway, I am rambling, hope that adds something to the discussion, if not, uhh, uhh...  I really like my 24" sabre defence ss fluted bull barrel upper.  It is the super neat.


Your post makes a good point, 24" barrels make a lot of sense. The rest was pretty good too.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 10:35:44 PM EDT
In 500 years humans will either be in the midst of another dark ages, off this rock or extinct.  The stupidity level of mankind, and carrying capacity of the planet has about been about reached.  When varmits get too thick mother nature thins the herd. Harsh reality, it pisses my wife off.

Semper Fi
zhick
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 10:41:03 PM EDT
We had one idiot in my Crim. Justice classes that proclaimed tupperware was the cause of the downfall of society.



Because that allowed the woman to go into the workforce and not be a stay at home mom.




From then on, he was known as tupper

Link Posted: 5/2/2009 10:41:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2009 10:43:44 PM EDT by Tony7189]
We are becoming a society that believes we are entitled to what we want and we require instant gratification of those wants (think Credit Cards, "Hey I can't afford it because I haven't saved for it but I want it now") . Parents that coddle their children while not giving them important life lessons in discipline, self-worth, independence, and a good work ethic continue the spiral downwards. Every society before us has smothered in it's own excess and apathy we will be no different.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 10:42:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zhick:
In 500 years humans will either be in the midst of another dark ages, off this rock or extinct.  The stupidity level of mankind, and carrying capacity of the planet has about been about reached.  When varmits get too thick mother nature thins the herd. Harsh reality, it pisses my wife off.

Semper Fi
zhick


five hundred years really isn't that long, I envision us living in slavery to tell you the truth. Not really free but not in the same form bondage has taken in the past either. Just enough leash to make you think you can choose where to go, but you can't.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 10:47:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By masheenhead:
Originally Posted By zhick:
In 500 years humans will either be in the midst of another dark ages, off this rock or extinct.  The stupidity level of mankind, and carrying capacity of the planet has about been about reached.  When varmits get too thick mother nature thins the herd. Harsh reality, it pisses my wife off.

Semper Fi
zhick


five hundred years really isn't that long, I envision us living in slavery to tell you the truth. Not really free but not in the same form bondage has taken in the past either. Just enough leash to make you think you can choose where to go, but you can't.


I think what you are talking about is a 30 year mortgage payment, credit card debt and over taxation ......  Too Late

zhick
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 11:01:43 PM EDT
it's the will of __(insert your god here)__. we must have done something wrong.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 11:05:26 PM EDT
cultures go through phases. with technology in the mix, we see new phases. meh.


ive never known anything but what i know in my short life of 21 yrs, so when people say were getting less moral and more cushy in lifestyle, it seems like business as usual. ive never known anything else

i dont know what it was like in the 50s or 60s or anything up until i started being more aware of the world when i was 12 or so, so right around Y2K
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 11:21:09 PM EDT
Hey Deech.. don't sweat it...  Just concentrate on being as self reliant as you can in all things.  Learn the old arts like gardening, canning, camping and  hunting as well as be financially savvy and conservative.  We need to pass on these basic survival techniques to the next generation.   Besides its fun and very satisfying to eat what you grow and forage..

Semper Fi
zhick
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 11:21:21 PM EDT
I recently found out I don't have any real morals. In reality why should I?
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 11:23:33 PM EDT
Its the Chantix
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 11:24:57 PM EDT
Perception of society's morals change, not society's actions.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 11:26:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Out_To_Sea:
it's the will of __(insert your god here)__. we must have done something wrong.


Odin thinks you're a pussy
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 11:28:27 PM EDT
Like others have alluded to, it's a cycle.  And depending on where in the world you look you can find societies in virtually all of the different stages of the cycle.
Link Posted: 5/3/2009 7:51:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2009 7:53:24 AM EDT
Chili Dogs
Link Posted: 5/3/2009 7:57:17 AM EDT
The more time and/or money people have on their hands, often, the worse trouble they get into.  

Throw in an increasingly deleterious culture, then hardwire everyone together first by radio, then tv, and now the internet to feed, channel, express and convey select desires...

Yeah...
Link Posted: 5/3/2009 7:58:03 AM EDT
Oh, also ad:

I don't think the state of our schools is helping either, or the secular culture demanding that religion/morality be removed from all public life.
Link Posted: 5/3/2009 8:04:10 AM EDT
Society has devolved and continues to do so. Our kids can no longer fail. They are trophy kids. Teachers and schools are afraid to fail. Success is no longer rewarded, but looked down upon.  Working hard to achieve your dreams has degraded to blame someone else (usually someone who works hard) when you fail.

Society is devolving and in no times humans will become apes again.

Reverse Darwinism.
Link Posted: 5/3/2009 8:06:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2009 8:06:46 AM EDT by hotbiggun42]
Our society and lives are being shaped and molded by Progressive thinkers they are in charge of all branches of Government and rule both political parties .We as individuals see our live as where we will be in 20yrs we work towards retirement ,The Progressives look at future generations and how they can mold them into their idea of how life should be. These Progressives are truly visionary an intelligent and i would like to add that they can  KISS MY ASS.


when you fuck with me you fuck with the whole trailer park !
Link Posted: 5/3/2009 8:08:54 AM EDT

I think the problem is two fold. First, look at what has happened in such a relatively short time, 200 years. The rapid increase in technology has outstripped our ability as a society to assimilate all the ideas, concepts and realities. I was watching a movie about the land rush. Just 100 years ago we lined people up to get free land, up to 160 acres. Now if you want to strike out for a "new start" you are SOL. You can't start over in a new untamed land, you can't start over any more. The computers follow you around no matter what.

Second, the population is out of control. Man has no natural predators except for diseases or himself. Wars used to be waged on a pretty constant basis. Now we have limited warfare that does nothing to keep the population down. I think at some point, through some means, the population will be reduced. Something needs to be done to cull the herd and whether that is a huge disease outbreak or major warfare I don't know. Something has to give though.
Link Posted: 5/3/2009 8:16:08 AM EDT
Doesn’t help that we are now an economy of consumers, rather than producers. Most jobs exist just so people can buy stuff, often from other countries. While all the manufacturing jobs continue to disappear.

Link Posted: 5/3/2009 8:23:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By philinmedford:

I think the problem is two fold. First, look at what has happened in such a relatively short time, 200 years. The rapid increase in technology has outstripped our ability as a society to assimilate all the ideas, concepts and realities. I was watching a movie about the land rush. Just 100 years ago we lined people up to get free land, up to 160 acres. Now if you want to strike out for a "new start" you are SOL. You can't start over in a new untamed land, you can't start over any more. The computers follow you around no matter what.

Second, the population is out of control. Man has no natural predators except for diseases or himself. Wars used to be waged on a pretty constant basis. Now we have limited warfare that does nothing to keep the population down. I think at some point, through some means, the population will be reduced. Something needs to be done to cull the herd and whether that is a huge disease outbreak or major warfare I don't know. Something has to give though.




You are talking about the U.S.A. 100 yrs ago  this was a new Nation and still is .The Government Gave away land to populate the new Realestate they had just purchased you know the more property owners you have the more taxes right ! The .Gov no longer needs to populate these areas but the do need Taxes so we have lenders handing out money to anyone with a pulse kind of like they did 100yrs ago with the land giveaways.

you right about overpopulation but dont worry if a World War doesnt happen , disease will take care of the problem .Also with Abortion Millions of little babies are being killed so i guess that is a good thing right ,It is what it is just a fact of life .
Link Posted: 5/3/2009 8:31:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Silence:
In 500 years historians will look back and see the enlightenment as a temporary anomaly.


That is if there are historians, and I mean rela historians. Not grown up kids who look at history through the lens of progress and welfare.
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